The Bible asks rhetorically whether a leopard can change its spots. Maybe not. But people and political movements can. Witness Hamas, which the current Israeli government views as the devil incarnate for its terror and rocket attacks against its citizens.
But the best way to characterize both what is happening within Hamas since the announcement of its unity government with Fatah, and Israel’s querulous response to it, is the old Bob Dylan lyric:
Something’s happening and you don’t know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?
Hamas seems to be thawing like those giant Arctic ice sheets which are heaving and dropping into the ocean with huge bursts of sound and fury. Witness this AP story:
Hamas officials speak of reconciliation with the West and a halt in armed hostilities with Israel, and even hint at some sort of political accommodation with the Jewish state. While Israel is not convinced, there are hopes in some Palestinian circles that the Iran-backed group could become a more accepted part of the Mideast diplomatic equation.
“The world should realize that we have made many changes,” said Ghazi Hamad, the deputy foreign minister of the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip. “The international community should not run away from these changes.”
…Israelis…could hardly be more skeptical. But the world community has mostly ignored Israel’s calls to isolate the new government, suggesting a willingness to let Hamas prove it has changed.
Both Hamas officials and outside analysts say the group has learned some bitter lessons during its four years in power in Gaza. The impression is that Israel’s blockade, which caused widespread hardship in the crowded territory, a blistering Israeli military offensive two years ago and the uprisings throughout the Arab world have all factored into its thinking.
Hani Masri, a Palestinian commentator who sometimes mediates between Hamas and its secular rival, Fatah, said Hamas realized that to lead the Palestinians, it needs “acceptance by the international community, particularly the West.”
…Hamas has sent a series of signals recently aimed at showing that it will not be the reason for any new breakdown. While refusing to disarm or give up its “right to resist,” leaders – including Gaza Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh in a speech last week – say they are committed to preserving “calm” with Israel.
The group says it will carry out attacks on Israel only as part of a Palestinian “consensus,” in effect giving President Abbas, an outspoken critic of violence, veto power over terror and rocket attacks.
And critically, its leadership, including its exiled supreme leader Khaled Mashaal, have signaled they will not stand in the way of any agreement Abbas might reach with Israel.
At a signing ceremony last week in Cairo, Mashaal referred to an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and made no references to Israel’s destruction.
…Fawaz Gerges, a Mideast analyst who has closely studied the evolution of Hamas and frequently talks to members of the group, said he is convinced it has changed.
The London School of Economics professor said support among the Palestinian public for an accommodation with Israel – and the revolution in Egypt, whose new leadership brokered the reconciliation – have deeply affected the group.
“They have come to the conclusion that settlement (with Israel) is the only way to go,” he said.
Bibi of course chooses in his florid, hyperbolic style to argue that neither leopards nor Palestinian militant groups can change their spots. He ignores, of course, decades of pre-state and post-state political developments in which many former Jewish terrorists did precisely that, transforming themselves from militants to statesmen in a matter of years: Ben Tzvi, Begin, and Shamir are but a few examples.
So of course Hamas, like the Irgun and other Jewish militant groups can certainly change their spots. Whether Hamas is truly in the midst of doing so or this will prove to be yet another false start for a peace initiative remains to be seen. But Fawaz Gerges is someone I trust and when he says it’s true, I tend to believe that there is something happening here and we’d better find out what it is.
How naive can you be ?
Here is a list of few statements by Hamas from two days ago, so which Hamas official should we believe ?
Hamas: Recognizing Israel jeopardizes rights
“Hamas will accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders, but will maintain its refusal to recognize Israel, party leader Mahmoud Az-Zahhar said Wednesday”
“Az-Zahhar also said, however, that a formal recognition of Israel would “cancel the right of the next generations to liberate the lands”
the paragraph above means : even if Israel would withdraw from the west bank, and a Palestinian state is to be created, this is not the end of the conflict, and not the end of demands.
“At the same time, the Hamas leader confirmed the decision reached with Fatah to maintain the truce with Israel, calling the move “part of the resistance, not a cancellation,” and noting that “truce is not peace.””
So….Azahar said it itself, and under the current provisions and stipulations noted by Hamas, i wouldn’t even negotiate with them.
Seems that the US congress is thinking in similar terms and puts pressure on the president to cu aid to the Palestinian authority.
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2011/ss_terror0560_05_10.asp
P.S
Az-Azahhar quotes were taken from Maan News, and i hope Richard, that you do not consider Maan as an Hasbara/ propaganda site.
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=386651
This has been posted by another commenter making virtually the same lame claim that you have. Please DO NOT duplicate material already posted. Go find what I wrote at that time about this article. I can’t repeat myself. It would drive me to distraction.
Oh yes you are right, I did post that article on the 11.
Since it was an interview conducted by Maan, you were unable to cry Your usual Hasbara, Hsbara, you were unable to discredit the source, so…. you just said nothing.
Hala, Richard responded at length to my posting of the article
from Ma’an.
You owe him a small apology.
Richard may never agree with what you believe, but he is consistent and he is honest. If he says that he discussed something, believe him.
Why thank you. People who disagree w. me as strongly as you do don’t usually say such things. I appreciate it.
Fuster,
i posted a comment which includes the exact above quote on the 11 in this thread https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2011/05/07/hamas-meshal-offers-new-pragmatism/
never received an answer, he may have replied to you but it wasn’t in the same thread.
let me tell you a small secret i don’t read all the threads, i read what Richard writes in response to mine and few other things in the same thread.
If Richard would have executed civility instead of the “don’t bother me answer” and would have provided a link to the right thread this would have been avoided.
I’ve said this many times before to other commenters: I simply don’t have the time or inclination to go back & find links for people who speak here in bad faith, presume bad faith on my part, & are generally hostile. Civility generally brings its own rewards around here. So many commenters demand so many times that I prove I’ve written something that I’d do nothing but archival research for them if I answered every query.
But I do not that Hala feels no need to apologize for his false accusation, which is instructive. Derech eretz anyone?
Oh grow up already! Move on! You have no understanding whatsoever of human nature, historical context and compromise.
Yes, it’s hasbara, as seen and interpreted thru YOUR EYES! You would exploit the blather of a drunk on a street corner if it suited your selfish, narrow-minded, intentions!
Nice, before it was Hasbara, no i have no understanding etc.
Let me ask again who should i Believe, the statements coming from who ? There is a thick line connecting Dr. Al-Zahaar statements to his book published in 2008 in Algiers.
the Book is titled “No Place {for Jews} among the nations”
i will let you guess what is the nature of his book.
i am not trying to score points, i am asking a serious question,as a Jew, statements like his – considering his publications – make me personally very nervous. keep in mind that Hamas doesn’t retract their previous statements or covenant, and most of their reps. denounced the USA for killing UBL (including Haniya, Mashel Al-Zahar & Others) which shows in my opinion a support to a very extreme line.
they seems like an extreme organization to me, every time someone states something that may be interpreted as moderate another rep comes out with the same extreme rhetoric.
so which Hamas voice should we adhere to ?
@ Hala
I can’t find any serious proofs of a book by Mahmoud al-Zahar with the title of “No Place (for Jews) among Nations”. It’s only mentioned on various Israeli sites such as ‘terrorism-info’ etc, and though there’s a ‘photo’ of the book, it looks like a fraud. The book isn’t mentioned on his wikipedia-entry either. What a strange title, with ‘the Jews’ in brackets in the middle.
Don’t tell us you’re propagating hoaxes.
For those who understand French: an interview on TV5 Monde from last week with a French medical professor and surgeon, Christophe Oberlin, who has been to Gaza more than 30 times to operate and to form Palestinian surgeons. In his book that coming out these days “Chroniques de Gaza”, Mahmoud al-Zahar writes the afterword, not as a member of Hamas but as a fellow doctor-surgeon, and as a friend. From min 3:10, the journalist and Oberlin discuss al-Zahar’s afterword where he’s mentioning the Jewish Holocaust, and Oberlin says earlier in the interview that he has never heard any words of hate towards the Jews, that Palestinians in Gaza might be opposed to Israel but nobody ever talked about expulsing the Jews. Al-Zahar lost two sons – his got a son and a daughter left – and a son-in-law who were all killed by the Israelis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haWnTyWztis
PS. You’ve now written “Az-Zahar”, “Azahar”, “Az-Azahar”, “Al-Zahar” and “Al-Zahaar”. Couldn’t you just decide for one of them ? And there’s no “Mashel” either. Maybe if you try five different spellings, one of them might be correct.
@ DY
You are the Arabic native speaker around here, My Arabic is very limited, but with the help friends who work for google i was able to find a link to a discussion forum in Arabic that deala with the book
the book was written and does contain exactly what ‘terrorism-info’ claims.
http://www.paldf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=708181
nice try.
Another comment rule: propaganda sources like Terrorism-Info are not credible & not acceptable as sources to prove anything. Don’t use such sources here, don’t link to them. And there are a number of left wing source I include in this group as well. If you tell me Terrorism-Info says something I’ll believe just the opposite is the case unless you can find a credible source that confirms it.
And again, Mahmoud Zahar isn’t the leader of Hamas, not even the 2nd in command, not even a member of the Hamas Gaza gov’t. So why do we care what he says if he even says what you & Terrorism-Info claim he does?
@ DY
and just so you will not claim the link i provided was a mistake
here is another one
http://www.paldf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=708181
Shabat Shalom to you to.
It’s the same link buddy. Pls. don’t repeat yrself.
I’m so sorry DY i just realized i published the same link twice
so here is the second one
http://www.djazairess.com/algeriapress/3158 and it seems like the correct translation of the title is
“The future is not between nations”
I guess Terrorism-Info mistranslated the title, huh??
@ Hala)
You think we’re idiots around here ?
The name of the book is “Lâ mustaqbal bayna al-umam” (No future among the nations) and there is no mention of Jews but of Zionism. It’s your problem if you can’t distinguish between the two.
And there’s absolutely no informations confirming your sayings in the link you posted. In fact there are no informations except the photos. If you don’t read Arabic, how come you know that the book contains what you say ? You better ask “your friends working at google” to find something else. What I do understand is that you have no other informations than what you picked up on some propaganda-site.
Khalass, kamaltu ma’aki. Finished with you. Keep on spinning.
@ Dy look at the second link i provided it’s a shame that you simple lying in such way, You know i may not speak arabic but i do know how to use google. translation is not that smooth, but clear enough to get the message.
the second link i provided is a critique of the book by someone and from it i quote a paragraph with the original Arabic text below, i didn’t change a thing, and this is not from an Israeli related site.
that the Jews were expelled from many centuries of all European countries because of their involvement in the assassination of Kiesrthm and their rulers, and Radio strife and hatred between the sects in the world’s peoples, noting that they were the first disease of the wounded anti-Semitism.
وأشار النقاد إلى أن الكاتب–الزهار-سلك سلوك الباحث الذي حيد عواطفه ومشاعره وانبرى متسلحاً بالمنطق العقلي وبلسان التاريخ والمراجع الخاصة،مؤكدين أن قراء هذا الكتاب سيجدون كاتباً محايداً لم يلجأ للمبالغة في عرض الآراء والمواقف،ولا التعصب في فرض فكرة معينة”.ويوضح كتاب الزهار،أن اليهود طردوا منذ قرون طويلة من كافة الدول الأوروبية بسبب تورطهم في عمليات اغتيال قياصرتهم وحكامهم،وإذاعة الفتن والبغضاء بين الملل في شعوب العالم،مشيراً إلى أنهم كانوا أول من أصيب بداء معاداة السامية
You’re quoting a review of a book written in a language you don’t understand by a reviewer you haven’t even named & based on what the reviewer says is in the book you’re arguing that Zahar in fact wrote these things? Really? Say it ain’t so.
And btw, Google Translate is NOT an authoritative source for translations. I sometimes use it for Hebrew texts if I need help with words or phrases & I KNOW Hebrew & can see how badly it screws up. I can’t imagine using it as a trustworthy source for a language I don’t know.
@ Hala)
Maybe you should collect all your ‘informations’ before posting. When I answered I hadn’t seen your second link. In your first link that your pretend discusses the book, there is nothing.
What I do understand, is that you know no Arabic, that you haven’t read this book,that you post links without any idea what it contains, but that you have “friends working with google” (sure it’s not Yuri Edelstein ?) feeding you with informations. You’ve discredited yourself. I don’t have to.
Liar, as Fuster noted.
C’mon Richard, go a little easy on the guests.
I said that Hala was wrong, that’s not anywhere near the same as calling “liar”
and it’s not something that I think should be said any too quickly.
Don’t you think HE jumped “too quickly” to assume that when I said I’d addressed the article that I was lying? If someone accuses me of lying they better have the goods otherwise I will not be charitable.
@ Richard)
“Hala” is an Arabic female name (means ‘sweetness’), but we know that this Hala is neither Arab nor sweet, so maybe she isn’t a female …
@ Richard
1. I didn’t claim you were lying, my initial though was that you had nothing to say to my original comment, you assumed you replied but actually you didn’t.
2. What would be the consequences if I would call you a liar ?
3. are you going to allow this ad hominem Bull Crap from Deir Yassin ?
I simply don’t have time to go back & find your original offensive comment. But you have no idea how many times commenters w. yr views in retrospect attempt to deny the meaning of what they’ve written earlier when I’ve called them on it. You presumed wrongly & offensively that I hadn’t actually commented on the Zahar interview when I had & told you I had. Do not make such presumptions in future & you won’t cross any red lines here.
Call me a liar without proof & you’ll see what the consequences will be.
Much rings hollow, to my ears, not about Hamas, but about Israel. Suppose (if you can) that Israel believes that Hamas will sign-on to a peace treaty if that treaty is to its liking and fundamentally based on the pre-1967 situation.
To be clear, land (of Mandatory Palestine) that was occupied in 1966 by Egypt and Jordan will now become Palestine; land (of Mandatory Palestine) that was occupied by Israel in 1966 will become Israel.
Adjustments will be made, to give Israel a path to its holy sites, to give Palestine a 4-lane highway to join Gaza and West Bank, maybe to adjust Latrun.
OK, we get the proposal. Would Israel sign-on under any circumstances today? How about no “return” for 1948 refugees to their homeland (to be Israel)? sharing naturally occurring water 50-50?
If the answer is “No, Israel will not possibly sign-on”, then what is all the fuss about?
To my understanding, Israel will not sign a treaty giving the Palestinians an opportunity to return to Israel, nor to allow any Palestinian control over any Jewish holy site, which would include the vast majority of Jerusalem.
When the Palestinians last controlled Jerusalem (1948-1967) they denied access to the Jews. You don’t get a second chance to screw Israelis.
Now that was yr first mistake: admitting a subject was limited to yr understanding of it. Since your understanding is minimal what is there left to talk about?
I’m sorely tempted not to give you a 2nd chance to mouth yr ianities & stupidities. But keep spewing & I’ll get sick enough of you that I’ll pull the chain.
‘End to Zionist project’ (aljazeera… Sunday May 15 2011)
Earlier Sunday Ismail Haniyeh, prime minister of Hamas-controlled Gaza, repeated the group’s call for the end of the state of Israel.
Addressing Muslim worshippers in Gaza City on Sunday, Haniyeh said Palestinians marked this year’s Nakba “with great hope of bringing to an end the Zionist project in Palestine”.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/05/2011515649440342.html