95 thoughts on “Bin Laden is Dead, Long Live Bin Laden – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Richard, apologies in advance, but if you really believe all the crap you just wrote, then you are more naive than I thought, and less astute than I gave you credit for. Have you never heard of perception management? That’s all this Osama death is about: the elections.

    1. Richard says Osama’s death is not of any great significance, that the real way to combat terrorism is to change US policies, and in the last paragraph implies that the chief importance of this event is in how it will effect the 2012 elections. So you disagree with all this?

      1. No. The point I was trying to make is that the whole operation is probably a scam and that it was not Osama they killed and dumped into the sea before they could prove his identity. Osama has probably been dead for some time. This was a staged show just like the pulling down of Saddam’s statue in Bagdad. It’s called perception management. Now Obama looks like hero for doing what Clinton/Bush failed to accomplish. What garbage. The media is eating it up and spewing it out to the world non-stop. A nice distraction from Libya, Syria, Israel/Palestine, not to speak of the economy. I’m sorry, after ten years of listening to pure bullshit, one has a right to be skeptical.

        1. Gene, saying the “whole operation is probably a scam” is creeping off into never-never land, the land of Wild Chappatoulas where the Wild Things Are. You’ve got us a bit worried for you…

          1. No need to worry about me, Richard. I’m all here, but thanks for caring. If I were alone in thinking this incident a scam, I might worry too. But I assure you I am not, and there are many people in high places that I know who keep me company. But of course it will never come out any more than the JFK and RFK and MLK assassinations, or 9/11. There have been many scams in the past – just google “northwood” – and they will continue. You’re exposing Israeli scams on your blog every day. Contrary to what weinreb may think, I am compos mentis.


  2. Yes, another leader replaces bin Laden, but what could be worse than the continuing war on terror? The reality that, beyond all the chest beating we may be doing here, bin Laden was in Pakistan, a nation broken by corrupt, puppet leaders of the USA. I fear for Pakistan…They hate Zardari. They will have a freakin’ love affair with Al Qaeda if Zardari is next on their list. I wonder what Musharraf would say right now…he played both sides, and how could he not know bin Laden was there? He did know. Al Qaeda had plans for some time to get Musharraf out and Zardari, “Mr.Ten Percent”, into office.
    Pakistanis not only sympathize with Palestine, they empathize with Palestine.

  3. Well, Richard, I see our oracular adolescent, aka Gene Schulman, has struck again, this time I suppose to diminish what I think are your very wise observations in reaction to bin Laden’s death. I’m not really sure what he meant by his “all the crap you just wrote” or by his absolute statement that “all this Osama death is about: the elections.” But I do think the central thesis of your statement, which should be obvious to anyone with half a mind, but either inadvertently or willfully eludes our powers that be, is all-important in this ongoing struggle against terrorism. Namely, instead of stupidly waging war against terrorism with drones and Rummy shock-and-awes, instead of using highly concentrated, intelligent police work in pursuit of criminals, we should attempt to identify the whys of terrorism. In brief, let’s drain the swamps, rid ourselves of those stagnant, fetid waters which breed those mosquitoes we call terrorists and, as you put it, become part of the Arab spring. Get down to the root causes of terrorism, among which is our unqualified support of Israeli aggression and activities in violation of international law. As to bin Laden’s demise, indeed good riddance, and if such enhances Obama’s election potential, so what? The core of your statement, Richard, is that terrorism does not exist in a vacuum, and people don’t defy the rules of biology itself and go blowing themselves up without some reason or other. We must probe and diagnose and determine just what such reasons are and, in addition to protecting ourselves and pursuing identified terrorists, identify and address those reasons here and now. And by the way, I am rather curious as to how Professor Schulman has determined “that it was not Osama they killed and dumped into the sea before they could prove his identity.” Remarkable man.

    1. Hey, Professor Weinreb, you’re really, really deep. A “half a mind” deep. If you’d pay attention to what you read you would have seen that I didn’t say it wasn’t Osama, but probably not Osama. In any case, they sure got rid of the evidence quick, didn’t they?

      You got one thing right, though; the root causes of terrorism. Not only Israel’s aggression, but US aggression and exploitation, too.

      1. Oh, so now it’s “probably not Osama”. Oh, boy, how many qualifications can balance on the point of an attitude? Still, we do agree on some fundamental stuff, but do take the advice of a person probably older and no doubt wiser than you: avoid ideologies – they can rise up and strike, cobra-style, even a reasonable and educated man.

        1. As I said above, if you would learn to read, it has always been “probably.”

          I doubt if you’re older, but I’m sure you’re not wiser. I’m not into ideologies, just the facts, please.

          1. “Probably” is after the fact, I fear. And I suspect no one’s older than I, at least no one who’s still compos mentis. As to your “I’m sure you’re not wiser”, watch it; I was being very objective. In any case, perhaps hereafter we might better focus on where we agree, and above all discuss how we might reasonably correct what I suspect we both see as dangerous injustices.

          2. “No doubt wiser than you” is objective? I’d bet I’m older than you are, and still compos mentis. You’ll have to point out the things on which we agree. I haven’t seen any yet.

            I’m still waiting for some evidence that it was Osama they killed and dumped into the sea. I don’t take Obama’s or the media’s word for anything anymore. They practice hasbara even better than the Israelis do.

          3. “I was being objective” was a comment that might be declared by the verbal cognoscenti as a touch of dry humor. Sorry it eluded you, and just as sorry that you fail to recognize that we do agree on some basic things, but apparently you are so eager to stand alone in your cognitive and moral superiority that even this you must deny. But enough already, except to say that I am fast approaching 84 and only feel about 92. So voilà and all that!

          4. Sorry, I didn’t realize you had a sense of humor – dry or otherwise. I am not eager to stand alone. On the contrary. That is why I bother to write and comment on these issues. I want to make everyone understand just what is really going on in the world these days. Most are ignorant, others in denial. I do whatever I can to wake them up. Okay, you’re a teeny bit older, but I’ve learned that age does not necessarily make us wiser. Just a bit crankier. Voila, indeed.

          5. I think it would be appropriate for you to substitute “what is really going on” with “what I think is going on”. Your ideas, while interesting, have reached the conspiracy theory zone long ago. Unless you can come up with some way to even just remotely present evidence to what you say is “really going on”, your idea will be rendered, at least by me, as intriguing tales.

          6. @Shai: Unfortunately, there is not much difference between what I think is going and what is really going on. I assure you, I am not conspiracy theorist, but you cannot deny that conspiracies take place. All one has to do is look at the conspiracy between the US and Israel to maintain Western hegemony in the ME and control its energy resources. If you want documentary proof of that you can find it in William Cook’s 2006 book “Tracking Deception: Bush Middle East Policy” for starters. He provides plenty of documentation.

            Thank you for finding my ideas interesting That’s at least a start.

          7. I am not conspiracy theorist, but you cannot deny that conspiracies take place.

            That’s pretty close to the definition of a “conspiracy theorist” & your views on this subject conform pretty well to that designation as well.

        1. I don’t know who you are, Joe. First time I’ve seen your name on this blog, but thanks. Can you elaborate on this subject?

  4. Very few organization’s and people condemned the Killing of Osama Bin Laden
    Hamas Prime Minster who called Bin laden a “Shaid ” martyr.(http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4063353,00.html)
    The Iranian government, (that of course blamed the Zionist Terror http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4063432,00.html) and yours truly Richard Silverstein.
    each for his own reasoning, and i am not saying that the 3 are connected in any way.

    Richard – it is about time you’ll realize that nothing the US will do will change the root cause for Terror, the root cause is of theological nature. There is one thing Obama can do actually, and that is issued a directive for all Americans to convert to Islam. that will end the conflict.
    as i don’t think that will happen any time soon, the fight will continue until the last terrorist will be killed.

    1. No, the last terrorist will never be killed. There are too many of them, killing them involves, more often than not, killing innocent civilians and death of soldiers involved in the anti-terrorist operations. Let alone the sheer financial burden of growing military expences and the doubtful pleasure of living in a militarized society.
      All the above considerations prevent “victory over terror” from being a viable option. The best one can hope for is a situation where terrorist attacks will be rare and limited in scope to such an extent that society will be able to live with them without panic, just as it lives with regular crime as long as the latter is kept in check.
      Moreover, military operations are not the only, and probably not the most important way to combat terrorism. Using only the army and the intelligence services to solve the problem of terrorism is like using only the police to solve the problem of crime — a bad idea.

      1. Leonid, Osama is the living proof (well maybe not anymore)
        that the roots of terror has nothing to with ones social-economic level, 9/11 proved that a person education level has nothing to do with what will make a person commit his life to terror.Blaming ourselves for terror, is very noble, but extremely short sighted.
        look at the Number 2 in El-Qaeda, the guy is a doctor, look at the number of educated people among different terror groups you will be surprised.

          1. Er, and what kind of response is it?
            I didn’t talk about whom one is to blame for terrorism, I talked about what can be done against it (and what can’t).
            It would be stupid to say that every terrorist is poor or uneducated. But poverty and lack of education are among the factors that drive people to terrorism, and reducing these factors should have a positive effect on reducing terrorism.
            Nuances are those little things that get thrown out of the window by people nurturing messianic expectations as attempted solutions to problems of the real life, mostly at the peril of those who buy into such expectations.

          2. Meni,
            Save your breath.
            Look, at the end of the day, there is very little the west can do to force a change on the social-economic level of other countries, they tried once and that period of time was the Glory days of colonialism.

            Unless there would be a fundamental change within the views of those who engage in terror, terror will be an integral part of our lives.

            we have the obligation to protect our citizens and that means that we have to fight. those who commit their life to terror, gain a lot of support and over time mark their mark. Look at the level of support radical Islamic groups have among the youth in England for example and maybe then you will understand that the roots for the conflict are theological, a hard concept to accept for a westerner.

    2. “It’s about time you’ll realize that nothing the US will do will change the root cause for terror, the root cause is of theological nature”. Bulls… !

      You can’t even spell an Arabic name correcly, and you pretend to be an expert on Islam. That’s Israeli chutzpah !

      Of course as a Hasbarista you have to say that. Wouldn’t it be horrible if the Americans realized that, in fact, the Arabs and Muslims do NOT hate Americans per se – quite on the contrary – but the disgusting US politics in the Middle East, and first of all the pro-Israeli stance.
      Move on to Hasbara 202.

      1. do you have anything of substance other then your usual BS and personal attacks to add to the subject / any subject ?
        as for your notion that this is all Israeli fault….
        لا تعرض مؤخرتك ويقولون ان مصير النحل

        1. Judi:

          To claim Islamist terrorism is solely down to theology is really an over-simplification almost devoid of any meaning. While theological arguments are indeed invoked (because it’s rather easy to make the uninformed rally around the word of G-d, see also the increased religiosity on both sides of the I/P conflict) by the Islamists, please note what’s said by most ‘Martyrs’ in their farewell videos: very clearly they nearly all invoke the cruel and self-serving Western policies in the ME, including in the context of I/P. No one can claim that it’s ‘all the fault of Israel’ but having a superpower bully on your side who rubberstamps and bankrolls Israel’s horrific treatment of the Palestinians from its birth to date inevitably invokes some reaction by those who disagree with it.

          Good riddance to bin Laden, TOTALLY, but w/o a truly honest and transparent approach to the ME/Arab/Muslim world from the West’s side, Islamism will stick around for some more time.

          The truly great news is older and it’s that despite the dishonest forebodings by so many Western leaders, including Israel’s own junta of war criminals and racists, about an Islamist take over of the ME/Arab/Muslim is that such a take over was never really on the cards. Islamism is fading but killing bin Laden will have had very little impact on that…

          1. If you would like to have a discussion i think we should find another place, in which the site moderator doe’s not behave like the KGB manager.
            I always fear that upon the deletion of my comments i will got a bomb in the mail from one of Richards friends.

            I am done with this BS site.

          2. Yes & we are more than done w you. You have the chutzpah to claim you’re worried about receiving a bomb fr one of my readers?? You are pathetic & have a deep case of paranoia.

            Not to mention why anyone might think u were a figure significant enough to bother with in such fashion.

            My readers & I don’t engage in violence. People like you are the ones who inject such violent tropes into the debate.

          3. and in case you are wondering
            the following comment of mine, which was published earlier is now moderated

            Very few organization’s and people condemned the Killing of Osama Bin Laden
            Hamas Prime Minster who called Bin laden a “Shaid ” martyr.(http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4063353,00.html)
            The Iranian government, (that of course blamed the Zionist Terror http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4063432,00.html) and yours truly Richard Silverstein.
            each for his own reasoning, and i am not saying that the 3 are connected in any way.
            Richard – it is about time you’ll realize that nothing the US will do will change the root cause for Terror, the root cause is of theological nature. There is one thing Obama can do actually, and that is issued a directive for all Americans to convert to Islam. that will end the conflict.
            as i don’t think that will happen any time soon, the fight will continue until the last terrorist will be killed.

          4. @ Judi Cohen)
            You’ve just shown that you ARE indeed paranoid. Your comment is NOT moderated. It’s further up the file (5:30 AM).
            And I just love people who spew anti-Muslim propaganda, telling me that I hate Jews.The ultimate argument: you’re a Jews-hater. Isn’t that just pathetic.

          5. I think Judi’s “sell-by date” is passed & she began to realize it. But I note that AFTER she said she was done here she returned like the bad seed she is. But she’s now banned & can no longer come back to haunt us. Her time here among us was short, but she made her mark and we’re the better for her having been among us (alas, poor Judi we knew you well).

          6. “To claim Islamist terrorism is solely down to theology is really an over-simplification almost devoid of any meaning.”

            But to claim Islamist terrorism is solely down to the Israel/Palestine conflict isn’t?

          7. I don’t think anyone here claimed Islamist terrorism was “solely down” to the I-P conflict. It’s far more complicated than that. But the conflict surely plays an important role in the radical Islamist agenda. To deny this is simply to ignore reality & the statements of the Islamists themselves.

        2. @ Judi Cohen)
          Why do you post those google translations in Arabic ? If you can’t transcribe Shehâdeh into English, you hardly can write Arabic ….

          If you could elaborate on the theological nature of Islam being a root for terror.

          Don’t you think that a major Muslim intellectuel as Ali Shariati has argumented otherwise ? And the ijtihad as applied by Shia Islam, how do you analyse that ? I mean being an expert on Islam …

          By the way, does Judaism also have a theological nature for landgrabbing ?

          1. Blabla blabla
            again nothing of substance.
            you are not interested in having a discussion, all you want is a platform to spew your hatred toward Israel, Israeli’s and Jews.

          2. On the contrary, I’m always deeply impressed by the level of empathy both Deir Yassin & Vicky have for Israel, Israelis and Jews. They show far, far more than you do for Palestinians.

        3. hey guys … if you don’t read/speak arabic … what judi the hasbarista cohen wrote لا تعرض مؤخرتك ويقولون ان مصير النحل doesn’t translate into anything sensible … perhaps she could enlighten us. as for the subject of terrorism, judi the hasbarsita must have heard of jabotinski, yithaq shamir, and present day israeli avigdor lieberman … she speaks their language and doesn’t realize that israel will never be free until and unless it recognizes Palestine … and when that happens … who cares about the likes of osama or judi …

      2. Dear Yasin,
        The BS is yours. It does not take an Arabic scholar to see that Arab terrorize each other 100 times more than they do the west. Unfortunately, it is a common practice in political and theological disputes to use suicide bombers and to target civilians in Muslim society. So blaming Israel in that respect is out of touch with reality.

        1. @ Freeman)
          What is an Arabic scholar ? This comment was specifically on Islam and Muslims, so how come you talk about Arabs ?

          Since Judi Cohen, our specialist on Koranic exegesis has left Tikun Olam, and you seem to agree with her, could you please answer me: As Islam apparently has a theological nature for terror, does Judaism have a theological nature for land grabbing, colonization and oppression based on ethnic supremacism ?

          1. Your question makes no sense.
            Is Turkey a Jewish state ?
            They are doing just that in Cyprus for the last 40 years.
            Is Iraq a Jewish state ?
            They have done just that in Quiet until the US drove them out.
            Is China a Jewish state ?
            They are doing just that in Tibet.
            i can go on…
            I’m not going to respond to this kind of things here, this is not the place for that.

          2. Free man, I don’t think Deir Yassin is trying to claim that ethic cleansing is theologically integral to Judaism. She is pointing out that just because certain Jews commit a certain crime, that doesn’t make the crime Jewish in nature. Equally, if a Muslim commits a terror attack, this doesn’t make terrorism something intrinsic to Islam.

          3. Exactly Vicky.
            Our expert on Islamic exegesis Judi Cohen – though not knowing any Arabic – claims that the theological nature of Islam is the root for terror.

            Freeman agrees with her statement – or maybe he didn’t even understand what he was agreeing with – so I asked him: if the theological nature of Islam is the root of the terror committed by socalled Muslims, is the theological nature of Judaism also the root for land grabbing by socalled Jews.

            That’s what’s called ‘essentialization’ (just another word for ‘racism’) and that’s BAD 🙂

          4. Deir Yassin,
            Stop distorting what I say.
            Your claim failed cause I proved that there are many countries that are not Jewish that do what you claimed is unique to Jews.
            My claim did not, cause (and this time try to read what I wrote) it is common practice in political and theological disputes to use suicide bombers to target civilians in Muslim society.
            Now I can give you 1000 examples (or so) of suicide bombers used in Muslim society. Some targeting civilians, some targeting mosques and holy places some other targets. Can you provide, let say 10 or 20 examples of other societies using this “tactic” ?

          5. First up, the Tamil Tigers (LTTE). They’re secularist and Marxist in their philosophy, and suicide bombing has been used by them repeatedly in both Sri Lanka and Tamil Nadu. The most famous LTTE suicide attack resulted in the death of Indian prime minister Rajiv Gandhi.

            Going back to the Second World War, there were the kamikaze pilots from Japan – they saw suicide missions as an honourable method of warfare. Kamikaze missions predate suicide bombings in the Islamic context, which are a fairly recent phenomenon, beginning in Lebanon in 1981. Given how recent, it does not make much sense to argue that this form of killing is embedded in Islamic theology. The idea that suicide bombing is a modern-day product of a combination of social, political, and religious factors is a much more plausible argument. Timothy Winter has some interesting thoughts to present on this in his essay ‘Bombing Without Moonlight: The Origins of Suicidal Terrorism’.

          6. free man:

            What’s with the obsession with suicide bombings, a weapon of poor lethality? A single 500 lb bomb, delivered from the air can kill a much larger number of people (combatants and innocents alike) than even the most audacious suicide attack. And certainly the West has in the history of the last 100 years dropped an almost infinitely higher number of such bombs than the entire number of suicide bombers put together in that same period.

            Suicide bombers are the ‘poor man’s guided missile’, period. Ineffective and relatively scarse…

          7. @Gerts, @Vicky,
            You are missing the point here.
            The point is not the man who kills himself.
            Kamikaze was fighting another army.
            I have no problem with someone killing his enemy army and in the process getting killed himself. This is what an army person is supposed to do. I point to the usage of targeting civilians. This is not guided missile, it is the other way around.
            And as I wrote, most people who die cause of this are Muslims themselves.
            Maybe instead of fighting the messenger, try to fight the phenomena.

    3. As usual you completely misstate what I wrote. Show me ewhere I “condemned” the killing. I did not do so. I said it will not help the war on terror nor resolve Muslim mistrust of U.S. motives in the region. I think his death is irrelevant, not the same as condemning it.

      1. So you don’t condemn this targeted assassination in a sovereign country carried out without any real attempt to capture him alive and bring him to trial at an international court?
        How is this different then Israel (presumably) killing Mughniyah?

        1. I don’t have much sympathy with people directly responsible for killing 3,000 people in one cold-blooded attack. So no I certainly don’t condemn the attack. I have no idea whether the following is true but the U.S. gov’t said its commandos would have captured bin Laden alive had he not resisted. Unlike your leaders, I place a bit more credibility in mine though it’s still possible they were lying when they said that. The IDF shoots to kill grandfathers sleeping in bed & unarmed militants. That’s still an exception for U.S. forces in the Middle East (though it has happened infrequently).

          1. Israel’s victims of Hizballah and Hamas terrorism are no less precious to us then the victims of 9/11 are to you. You have lost any moral ground to criticize Israel when it does to Mughniyah and Yasin what your own government did to Bin Laden and you refuse to condemn them. Nasrallah may be next. Dumping the body in the ocean, like your own president, the winner of the Nobel peace prize, did to Bin Laden, is something Israel has never done.

          2. And Lebanon & Gaza’s victims of Israeli terror are no less precious to them than yours are to you. There’s more than enough terror to go around on all sides here. Suppose Hezbollah or Hamas had a drone which could attack an Israeli general & kill him. If you want to justify targeted killings of Israel’s enemies, shall we not do the same for them when they seek to kill one of yours? That’s why I want to see all the alleged war criminals in the Hague & not in a body bag.

            I don’t look to you as my moral arbiter for any subject. You’re little more than a hasbara troll looking to make trouble. Readers here swat away yr inanities as they would a fly.

        2. Reports just in that OBL was unarmed.
          Now what?

          now it’s too late then for him to arm himself.

  5. so as per the NYTimes…we apparently invaded Pakistan without their approval?

    Even after the president signed the formal orders authorizing the raid, Mr. Obama chose to keep Pakistan’s government in the dark about the operation.

    “We shared our intelligence on this compound with no other country, including Pakistan,” a senior administration official said.

    It is no surprise that the administration chose not to tell Pakistani officials. The United States never really believed the Pakistanis’ insistence that Bin Laden was not in their country. American diplomatic cables in recent years show constant American pressure on Pakistan to help find and kill Bin Laden.

  6. terrorism? terrorists? where? who?

    “Yes, on Saturday — just days after the Peace Laureate’s administration announced it was sending unmanned drone bombers into the Libyan civil war, the residence of Libyan leader Moamar Gadafy was torn apart by a precision missile attack. The attack on a residential area of Tripoli missed Gadafy, but killed his youngest son, Saif al-Arab, and three of the leader’s grandchildren.

    With this great act of peace, Obama surpassed one of his favorite presidents, Ronald Reagan, who only managed to kill a single infant adopted daughter of Gadafy back when he was bombing Libya. The Laureate now has four Gadafy family members — and blood members, too! — notched on his gun belt.”

  7. This success of Obama’s will be long forgotten by the time the election comes along. Carter had a much greater achievement in getting the Israel-Egypt peace agreement in 1979 but that didn’t help him get re-elected. There are far more pressing issues that will define the election campaign.

    1. This is yet another one of yr specious attempts at U.S political punditry, like when u predicted McCain’s election victory. Remember that little doozy. Actually for Americans killing bin Laden is far more important than Carter’s achievement. They’ve been gunning for him for 14 yrs.

      I think Camp David was a bigger achievement, but the avg American feels differently.

      1. You mean things like the hypocrisy of Obama bombing the heck out of Qaddafi while coddling Assad will continue to remain unnoticed?

        1. It’s probably too early to prognosticate on such subjects but I say Obama wins & probably big in November. Keep in mind that I’m at best a very mild supporter partly because of the hypocrisies you correctly note. However, I wouldn’t say Obama is “coddling” Assad. He’s certainly not doing everything in his power to encourage his downfall. But coddingly is far too extreme a phrase for it.

        2. you really haven’t a clue about anything and you’re speaking nonsense.

          Obama is neither bombing the heck out of Kaddafi (not that there’s anything wrong with that) nor coddling Assad.

          you’re clueless.

  8. You don’t come right out and say it, Richard, so I will: The so-called ‘war on terror’ is nothing more, and nothing less, than a continuation of the ‘age of colonialism’, but by another name. Wake up, folks.

  9. Well done to the CIA, the US Special Forces personnel and their allies who carried out this operation. The true story will never be revealed in full, and those involved will have their identities protected for the rest of their lives. The burial at sea was clever as it will deprive the terrorist acolytes of a shrine to flock to in the future. Justice always catches up with people. We all reap what we sow eventually. Many of the young people celebrating in Times Square and outside the White House right now would have been aged eight to eleven years old when September 11 happened. Their reaction is a statement that they, like all of us, do not want to live in a constant state of fear. There will be an upswing in hatred towards certain groups in the coming days, but some people will hate you no matter what you do. President Obama spoke well as usual. There was not a hint of adolescent triumphalism in his speech. I agree with what he said. G-d bless the USA and Western Civilization !

  10. [quote]
    No, I haven’t become an Al Qaeda fan and I’m not drinking to the health of bin Laden’s successor. My point is that killing one man, no matter how symbolic his life or death might be to world terrorism and the fight against it, won’t change much in the long run.
    Killing one man can make a great difference, same for the timing.
    Killing Hitler in 1936 would have saved 100M people from death and many more from missery. Killing him in 1945, was not as important.
    Killing Stalin in 1922 would have saved many milions.
    Killing Osama in 2000, would have saved 4000 Americans, saved the destruction of Iraq and many Afgans and Iraqi people. Killing him in 2011, may save some more Americans, who would not die in terorrist acts he might have planned. The fact that someone that may replace him may be good at it as he was is not relevant.

    We do not think about what might happen but we can reflect of the past to see what might have. In the case of Osama, it is quite clear.

    1. Killing bin Laden now or in 2000 wouldn’t have & won’t deter Al Qaeda. It is bigger than him, despite his leadership role. Killing Sheikh Yassine didn’t stop Hamas nor did assassinating Musawi deter Hezbollah. And to compare them to Stalin or Hitler is ludicrous. They butchered millions. I find yr comparison historically false.

  11. Dubi,
    Is Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah responsible for the killings of 3000 Israeli’s in a single cold-blooded terror attack ?
    Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah was fighting to liberate Lebanon from the Israeli occupation, this was and still is a legitimate struggle.

    1. Nasrallah and his gang do quite a few things other than fight Israelis to liberate Lebanon (even if you believe that crock).
      Amongst those things is subverting Lebanon and killing Lebanese citizens.

        1. seem to you Israel kills Lebanese citizens? yeah they have and they’ll probably kill some more.

          that doesn’t change anything about Hezbollah, Richard, and I can’t figure what you comment might gave intended with that bit of irrelevance.

          is Hezbollah’s murder of Lebanese to be excused because other people have killed Lebanese?

          Israel doesn’t try to fool people into thinking that they’re a movement dedicated to Lebanon while they’re going about subverting it.

          1. Israel has killed far more Lebanese over the yrs than Hezbollah has.

            There are plenty of parties within Israel that fool people into thinking they’re a movement dedicated to Israel while they’re dedicated to nothing but their own private, personal or political interests, which certainly ends up subverting Israel. Hezbollah is at least as dedicated to Lebanese interests, as Hezbollah sees it, as Yisrael Beiteinu or Shas is to Israeli ones.

          2. Either I wasn’t clear or you misunderstood. I meant to say that Shas CLAIMS to be true to Israeli interests but it is true to no one’s interests but itself.

          3. Fuster, 90% of the people killed by Israel during the Second Lebanon War were civilians. Saying, “Seem to you Israel kills Lebanese citizens? Yeah they have and they’ll probably kill some more,” diminishes the sheer scale of a crime that resulted in over a thousand civilian deaths and four thousand civilian injuries. I’m going to assume that you didn’t mean to treat the subject in such a crass and casual way, and that you just weren’t aware of the numbers involved.

            No, Hezbollah isn’t good for Lebanon – and that being the case, you would think that the Lebanese people have enough difficulties to manage without Israel unleashing cluster bombs on them and reducing their houses to rubble as well.

          4. —-Israel has killed far more Lebanese over the yrs than Hezbollah has.—-
            true….and pointless.

            Israel’s been at war with Lebanon, but Hezbollah styles itself protectors of Lebanon.
            Instead they subvert it.

          5. Vicky, there’s nothing good that I can point to about the last war that Israel fought with Lebanon and be assured that pointing out the bad about Hezbollah doesn’t mean that I’m blinded to Israel’s errors and criminality.

      1. And of course there was never an occupation of Lebanon by Israel. And Hezbollah wasn’t a resistance movement to that, oh no, just like the French Maquis wasn’t a resistance movement against Nazi occupation, it was only opposed to ‘Bratwurst mit Kartofflen’ (un-French, you see…)

        Interesting also how bin Laden expressed his disgust at the shelling of innocent Beiruti civilians by the US’s Sixth Fleet in that same period. What goes round…

        Fuster, could you explain to me how the education system ‘the richest nation on Earth’ churns out some many exceedingly dumb citizens like you?

        You’re an idiot…

        1. gert, thanks. good to know I’m someone you can look up to.

          care to explain how the former occupation of Lebanon by Israel validates Hezbollah’s crimes against Lebanon and murders of Lebanese?

          use simple logic so idjits such as myself don’t get tangled in the complexity of it all.

          1. Fuster:

            Listen idjit, there’s been much trouble and strife in Lebanon with violence from all sides in the past. Do you also consider the many Americans that died in the US’s Civil War as ‘murders’?

            In the mean time the ‘Land of the not so free, Home of the cowards’ has been trying to bribe the Lebanese into voting its way (that’s really Israel’s way, of course). And still they claim to defend, nay… represent, democracy. Not in my name. I vote for regime change in the US: end the pro-Zionist plutocracy NOW!

            It sure is the ‘complexity of it all’ that throws yokels like you. Back to the Church of Knownothingism with you. High Altar: somewhere in the ole’ US of A…

          2. Can we try to make distinctions here between individuals and not lump an entire nation in with the worst of its lot?? Fuster seems much more interested in Israel than the U.S. anyway.

          3. Richard, you’re again quite wrong in thinking that fuster is more interested in Israel than the US.

            fuster isn’t much of a fan of Israel and only defends against ill-conceived or incorrect attacks.

            fuster IS a fairly content defender of the US, although open to complaints that the US is far from realizing its ideals and not in the last few decades making much progress toward realizing them.

  12. Richard
    there is a huge difference between attacking a single man, minimizing the collateral damage to the surrounding environment, to the resistance form offered by Hamas or even our own Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah, a huge difference while the Israeli’s target legitimate targets, Hamas & Hezbollah target the Israeli’s mass.
    as a Muslim believer, i think that what they are doing is an act of cowardice, the struggle in Lebanon and the attacks of IDF outposts – Legitimate and Heroic, The Kidnapping of Gilad Shalit Heroic, attacking Israeli Citizens ? cowards with no morals. Israel never attacked our civilians, never.

    1. @ Assad Al-Quds)
      “Israel never attacked our civilians, never”
      You pretend to be Lebanese. Yoy must be one of the SLA members left behind.

    2. You don’t mean attacking. You mean executed an unarmed man, don’t you. Is that accpetable in yr moral universe?

      I don’t take kindly to fakery. So stop pretending your a Lebanese who supports Israel. This is bogus & I don’t take kindly to it. Nor the claim that you are a Muslim believer. You’re about the pass your sell by date on this only yr 2nd comment. I reserve the right to ban you the next time something you write even contains a whiff of fakery.

      1. It’s easy to check the origin of the IP address. It’s also easy to fake an IP address but I doubt any commenter would go through that trouble and pity them if they do.

          1. Definitely a proxy. Four websites that use that IP address are listed at the head of the page, the first of which is privacyprox.info. The others seem to be defunct, but their web addresses suggest that they were sites offering anonymous browsing as well.

            Assad al-Quds is obviously a supporter of Israel posing as an Arab in order to give Israeli policy some extra legitimacy: “We are humane – even Arabs say so!” He has taken it a bit too far with the ‘Israel never killed any of our civilians’ comment. I can’t imagine most Israelis saying that, let alone a Lebanese person.

          2. “Assad al-Quds” means ‘the lion of Jerusalem’.

            And using a proxy server is really easy: I’ve come across someone who’s had more than 100 different identities on another blog. Everytime he’s banned, he comes back. His language is though so brainwashed that after 3-4 comments, the same spelling mistakes and references, you realize the guy is back.

      2. —You don’t mean attacking. You mean executed an unarmed man, don’t you. Is that accpetable in yr moral universe?—-

        executing an innocent man isn’t acceptable. executing bin Laden is more than acceptable.

        1. In civilized societies men, even serial killers and mass murderers are convicted before execution. In fact, as the Nuremberg Trials proved, trying them before killing them lent credibility their death & the reasons for it. Should Israel have put Eichmann against a wall & shot him in Argentina after capturing him, or tried him & then punished him??

          Eichmann killed many more than bin Laden & in a day when Israel was a more civilized place, it actually took the trouble to try him. What a concept!

          1. Richard, you persist in misapplying legalism to matters outside of the scope of legality.

            There was no reason to put bin Laden on trial; no damage from avoiding it.

            Justice and civilization were served by putting him down.

          2. putting him down.

            He wasn’t a dog, he was a human being. And actually most dogs are treated far better than he was in death. He may’ve been a human being guilty of grave crimes who deserved equally grave punishment. But we only degrade ourselves when we do what you have done.

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