Eminent Israeli Historian, Israel Prize-Winner, Calls Israeli Government ‘Anti-Zionist’
Yes, it took me aback too when I first read it, but the most distinguished living Israeli historian, Yehudah Bauer, says that the current Israeli government, in its attempt to maintain the Occupation and its refusal to recoginze a Palestinian state, is “anti-Zionist:”
“I am speaking from a Zionist standpoint,” Prof. Yehuda Bauer explained. “Zionism sets as its goal the preservation of a Jewish national home with a solid Jewish majority – this was the dream of people from the left, right and center of classical Zionism. But the continuation of the occupation guarantees the nullification of Zionism – that is, it rules out the possibility that the Jewish people will live in its land with a strong majority and international recognition. In my eyes, this makes [Israel’s] government clearly anti-Zionist.”
Bauer said that he sees the establishment of a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders as the “realization of genuine Jewish nationalism that exists in peace in the region, and within the international community.”
Bauer and 16 other Israel Prize winners will join other prominent public figures in a historic signing of a document which recognizes a Palestinian state within 1967 borders. They will assemble on Thursday outside Independence Hall in Tel Aviv, where David Ben Gurion signed Israel’s Declaration of Independence in 1948.
I understand that there are readers who will be disappointed in Bauer’s articulation of his argument because he is clearly wedded to a Jewish majority state. But what’s important to me is that he and a number of Israeli luminaries are willing to get off their behinds and publicly recognize a Palestinian state in 1967 borders. To me, this is part of a rising tide of support, both international and domestic (inside Israel), calling for immediate recognition of a Palestinian state. This undercuts the position of the current Israeli government and even the current U.S. government, which is a good thing.
52 thoughts on “Eminent Israeli Historian, Israel Prize-Winner, Calls Israeli Government ‘Anti-Zionist’ – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم”
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A Jew that think what is best for the Jews in the holy land not what is best for the Palestinians, now that is a surprise. What a novel point of view !
I have a novel name for that as well. I suggest to call this phenomena: Zionism.
I do not understand you. How can you not root for the underdog, the party that is oppressed? Is that not what values (Jewish or humanist or whatever) are all about?
You know, it is kind of hard. When I hear from the end of the Magreb to the streets of Afganisatan voices calling “death for the jews” and calling for the destruction of Israel, I don’t feel like topdog, I feel like a very small underdog with a huge band of topdogs wanting to take me down.
In addition, when just the other day Amer Musa (running for president in Egypt) called the Israel-Egypt peace treaty, “expired document”, I kindof feel even worse.
Welcome to the club. When Arabs hear from the shuls of Brooklyn to the settlements in Yizhar & Itamar, “death to Arabs” they feel the same way.
As for the Sinai treaty, if your gov’t would make peace w. Syria, Lebanon & Palestine, the Egyptians would honor their own treaty w. Israel.
1. I know they do, only there are a little bit more Arabs than Jews (something like 100 time more).
2. No excuse. A peace treaty is a peace treaty. We did not gave up the Sinay for nothing. Make us think that and it will be impossible to continue.
Today in channel 10 News they showed an interview with Amro Mussa who stated that Kemp-David is finished, and has no validity any more.
Amro Mussa is one of the leading contenders in the Egyptian presidency campaign. Would be very interesting to see under which party and if he will be nominee of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Such statements should be condemned by the international community, i doubt that such thing will ever take place.
The Camp David Accords contain two agreements: The Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty AND a framework for Peace in the Middle East containing : “negotiations to establish an autonomous authority in the West Bank and Gaza and the implementation of UN Resolution 242.
That was 33 years ago, and Israel is expanding in the West Bank. As always, Israel sign agreements, ‘forgetting’ that it’s not all for their benefit.
I’m very happy that Egypt might reconsider the Camp David Accords. It’s time that you realize you’re not setting the orders eternally in the Middle East. “Times are A-changing” …
Long live Amr Moussa – though he was too embedded in the former government, he’s always had a stronger standpoint on Palestine than the average Egyptian ‘collaborator’ and though he behaved as a ‘boy’ at Davos. He should have left with Erdogan after the scolding of Peres.
@ Deir Yassin
The Camp David accord had two parts
1. The peace treaty between Israel and Egypt
2. A full autonomy should be granted to the Palestinian in Judah Samaria and Gaza under the ruling of Israel, Jordan and Egypt.
Both Israel and the Palestinians signed the Oslo agreement which grants the Palestinians more then the Camp-David, agreement.
would you like to claim that all the Palestinians want is an autonomy ?
I refuse to read any of your official Hasbara-links from the Israeli government. That’s not a credible source to me.
The second part of the Oslo Accord is “negotiations to establish an autonomous authority AND the implementation of the UN Resolution 242”. Do you know the implications of the 242 ?
And this is not about what I or the majority of the Palestinians want, neither whether the Oslo Accord goes further than the Camp David agreements or not, but whether Egypt has the right to consider the Camp David Accord null and void or not.
And I’m pretty sure that the future Egytian government consider Israel responsible for the failure of the Oslo Accord too. If it never worked out, it’s simply that the Israelis never meant to respect it. The settlement constructions were not even stopped during the five minutes it took to sign the documents…
@ Deit Yassin
it is extremely saddens me to see how easy it is to people like Yourself to declare the Camp-David Agreement null and void. i fear that if Egyptian Regime will actively and openly support the Hamas in gaza with the transportation of arms (and i see it coming) the consequences would be trouble, mostly to the Egyptians themselves.
I do not think that the US will support such an Egyptian move (declaring the agreement null and void)
Deflecting the attention from Egypt inner problems (like feeding the poor) never worked before, it is doomed to fail this time around to.
declaring agreements null and void seating at the comfort of your home bare no consequences, i think that the Egyptian government will be smarter.
Deir Yassin isn’t declaring Camp David null & void. Israel has essentially done so itself by failing to implement its provisions & acting in bad faith. It did this as well with the Road Map provisions & Oslo. Palestinians too had major failures in this regard. But Israel’s disdain for its signature on these documents has been apparent to almost all.
I would be happy to have the Egyptians threaten to render the Sinai agreement null & void unless Israel signs peace agreements w. the other front line states within a specified period of time. That would be extra pressure on Israel to do what needs to be done, but which it refuses to do.
i am sure that those who were evicted from Yamit expect the same. You are in great company.
If you think that will serve the grater good of the Palestinian cause you are delusional, it will only bring war between Israel and Egypt.
Sinai will not be given back this time, and the first to suffer the consequences would be the Palestinians.
I’m sure Dr. wilder or what ever the name is of the nut job from hebron would identify with that wish of yours.
And you think the next war with Egypt will come out like 1967? Or even 1973? Think again. You think this time Obama or whoever’s president will save your ass like Nixon did in ’73? Maybe, or maybe not. Are you willing to roll the dice? You think the UN, EU, etc. will sit back & murmur approvingly when Israel tries to take on the entire Arab world like Samson in the Temple? Good luck with that.
Your comment April 21, 11:14AM
“….an interview with Amro Moussa who stated that Kemp-David is finished, and has no validity any more”
Another comment, 3:58PM
“It is extremely saddens me to see how easy it is to people like Yourself to declare the Camp David null and void …
Declaring agreements null and void seating at the confort of your house bare no consequences. I think the Egyptian government will be smarter”.
That’s just plain … YOU brought up the declaration by Amr Moussa, I responded to your comment whether the international community should condemn this. Yeah, it’s not like there were other issues in the ME to condemn, such as a 44-year long occupation !
Why don’t you stay on topic: Egypt’s attitude to the Peace Treaty, instead of talking about my house. By the way, I have a house to recover in Northern Israel, you might put in a word somewhere …
i think that another war with Egypt will come out exactly like 67 or 73. Despite Egyptian military equipment.
the gap between Israel’s Technology and Egypt’s one is still huge.
and i think that Obama, the EU etc. will not say a word especially if the Egyptian regime will declare the peace agreement null and void.
@ Deir Yassin
maybe you would like to talk about your house to Obama, is idea about null and void includes the Palestinian ROR and not Israel-Egypt peace treaty.
אני בוחרת להגיב לך בעברית
משום שאני יודעת אתה קורא עברית ומקווה שתגיב בעברית
אתה לא חי בישראל וכותב כאילו אתה מכיר את ישראל על כל רוחבה, מאיפה החוצפה הזו לשבת בארצות הברית לא לדעת מה זה טרור , לא לדעת מה זה לדאוג למדינה שכולם רוצים בהשמדה שלה , שאתה יושב מוגן מכל הכיוונים .
אני מסכימה שצריך למצא פיתרון הולם לבעיה שהתחילה משום דבר , אך לכתוב שבישראל אין דמוקרטיה? יש לי שאלה אחת לשאול אותך ,,, שישראל תעלם מה אתה חושב גורל היהודים בעולם יהיה ? מי ישמור עליהם ? ארצות הברית ? בריטניה או אולי אתה ….
קל לכתוב לשבת בבית ולצעוק כמו שאתה עושה אך קשה מאוד להבין את הנעשה במדינה שמעולם לא היית בה.
Sorry, but it’s fine for you to comment in Hebrew but I won’t reply in Hebrew since most of my readers will not have a clue what I’m saying. And as for yr tired hoary claims that I have no right to criticize Israeli policy because I live in the U.S. & don’t know what it’s like to live with terror…well, all I can say is wake up and join the world. Anyone can comment on anything in today’s world. I know more about what’s happening in some parts of your backyard than you do. No, I don’t know everything happening inside Israel & don’t pretend to. But the areas that are important to me I know as well as anyone. And if it bothers you to hear my comments on Israeli policy, well sorry, you’re outa luck. No one asked your opinion really.
As for the world seeking to destroy Israel, that’s more bubbe meissehs. Israel does far better at destroying its neighbors than they do destroying Israel.
It’s really swell that you agree that it’s necessary to find a solution to the “problem” which began “for some reason.” Can you explain to me what exactly this means & what precisely you’re willing to do for peace? IN other words, enough with the slogans & evasions. We want tachlis here.
I’m always tickled by Israelis who believe that if their country disappeared that all the Jews in the world would be killed. This sort of narcissism (as Shirin has called it) is astonishing. Of course no one here wants Israel to be destroyed. But if that happened it would be at least as much Israel’s fault as anyone else’s & Jews would continue to exist throughout the world. Israelis seem to believe l’etat, c’est moi. But it ain’t true.
As for your claim that I’ve never been in Israel, how do you think I know Hebrew?
Those are either paranoid delusions or lies.
“לא לדעת מה זה טרור”
Hilarious. As though we are under constant threat of death right? Who do you think could buy this nonsense? There is no “terror”. It’s a lie, and a ridicules one at that. You have a hell of a better chance of being a victim of falling down stairs, not to mention crime or traffic, than a “terror” attack.
It’s the biggest BS story since moses came down the mount.
“שישראל תעלם מה אתה חושב גורל היהודים בעולם יהיה ?”
Probably much better, seeing as they would no longer be identified with a crime against humanity.
“בישראל אין דמוקרטיה”
No. None. Never was. Probably never will be.
I guess the “Death to the Jews” is translated from Arabic, Farsi, Pashto and whatever languages those ‘savages’ speak by the honorable institution MEMRI.
By the way, Amr Moussa is leading according to the last poll (around 27%). Things will be moving in the Middle East …
I don’t know that institute, it may be an American one. How ever, I know enough Arabic to understand the basic of what they shout in the streets.
“I know enough Arabic to understand the basic of what they shout in the streets.”
SURE you do. I am sure you know fullawful and Huhmuss. And of course you know the lovely Arabic phrases that have found their way into the Israeli vocabulary – you know, like kuss ummak, and other charming things that you use. Ya allah, you even steal the Palestinians’ vulgar expressions!
In your first comment, you write:
“When I hear from the end of Maghreb to the streets of Afghanistan voices calling “Death to the Jews” and now you state that you “know enough Arabic to understand the basic of what they shout in the streets”.
Bull…, you do !
Arabic, Farsi and the various languages of Afghanistan (Pashto, Tadjik, Dari …) don’t even belong to the same family of languages. I do understand NO Farsi nor any Pashto though my Arabic is fluent. You’re just spinning Hasbara about ‘the savages who all look and think the same’. That’s what is called RACISM elsewhere …
Just two examples. Anyways, it is about time you stop pretending. It is not me who is full of propaganda, it is you.
In short they recall when Muhamad discarded his treaty with the Jews and killed them, and say that the army of Muhamad will return.
Omigod, you’re quoting Frontpagemagazine as a credible source??? Puh-leeze. That Islamophobic shmateh? Pls. don’t soil my comment threads with references to the dreck contained therein which passes for truth.
@ Free man)
I’ve already seen the “Khaybar”-stuff from Tunis dozens of times. Other Hasbaradim have posted it.
You just have to decide whether you want to run the “Death to the Jews” or the “Death to Israel”-propaganda though we know that right-wing Zionists deliberately mix it up in order to make all anti-Zionists look like anti-semites.
And in Farsi and Pasto, you didn’t find anything ? “From the end of Maghreb to the streets of Afghanistan” ….
Richard, don’t mind the sight, look at the video I linked.
A person who puts his ethnic group above other ethnic groups.
Actually, not so novel.
It’s called racism.
Neither Israeli Jews nor Palestinians will get what’s best for them respectively if they seek what THEY define as their own best self-interest. But they can get the best deal that reailzes as much of that self interest as possible if they can compromise. If they can’t & insist on what is maximally best for their own respective nation or people, then they will end up realizing nothing of their dreams & aspirations.
In that sense, pragmatism is Zionism as well.
What would you suggest the Palestinians should compromise on that they haven’t already given up to the thieves who stole their land, their property, and their lives?
Havn’t you heard? Arabs have to be zionist now!
They have to give us… their love.
You have to admit, this is brilliant. Selling to the world the notion that the problem is that the oppressed are too hateful is pure genius.
All the palestinians have to do is wait us out. Eventually we’ll blow over, and they’ll have what’s theirs.
You’re another Palestinian hater I suppose. You don’t care how much life are going to be lost, you don’t care how many people here are never going to have one, as long as it serves your objectives. This is exactly ehat led the Palestinians to the state they are right now. The one who wants it all will loose it all.
I could say that just as easily about the Israeli far right including yr own prime minister. And mark my words, Israel’s maximalists & rejectionists, who run the current gov’t, will cause Israel eventually to lose it all.
Actually, what led them to the state they are right now is that another nation brutally invaded their lands.
Bauer supports a division of Israel/Palestine along the May 1967 border. That’s the best one can expect. It offends the settler group, it presumably offends the ZOA/AIPAC folks, and it may be politically unworkable. But it is probably as good as can be done.
If Bauer and his group would call for the removal of all settlers, immediately, and the demolishment of the wall (I’d add demolishment of the settlements as well), they’d have a proposal for immediate Israeli unilateral action in line with international law (which requires all these things) and with I/P peace, which may take a bit longer.
If they will not make this call, they are doing less than they should. They are speaking “peace” but not calling for “justice” or “lawfulness”. I have heard that there are three pillars (of something, forget what, but it sounds nice): “Truth, Justice, and Peace, and in that order.”
They are forgetting the most important pillar Economy. If Israeli Jews supporting 1967 borders believe, that the outside world will pay the financial worth of the settlements and other Israeli infra on West Bank to be used to build new homes for settlers is day dreaming. Will Palestinians be willing to pay for the Israeli assets on West Bank, I doubt that?
So the core question is can Israel financially afford the coming two state solution. The cost of relocating the settlers is not the only loss. In a peace Israel would loose also the income it now succeeds to get out of the Palestinian economy, and that is not a insignificant sum. Peace would eventually also drain most the income of “the special relationship”. Will the non-settler Jews in Israel be willing to pay the costs in form of high taxes? Israel has earned for a too long period from the conflict, Israel’s business idea has been the conflict.
The past Israeli governments invested to much on the West Bank so it is fair to say that not only the present government is anti-Zionist. All governments since 1967 were anti-Zionists. The past actions have made it impossible for any Israeli government to make peace – voluntarily. The Jewish Reich simply can’t afford financially peace so internal Truth, Justice and Peace do not matter. Only outside pressure does.
Why demolish the colonies. Why not hand them over intact to the rightful owners of the land as partial reparations?
I agree with you,settlements should be handed over intact.It serves no constructive purpose to demolish them.
I do hope that most Palestinians appreciate the noble gesture and do not see it merely as another sign of Israel’s weakness.
“I do hope that most Palestinians appreciate the noble gesture …”
What’s noble about this ? Bauer explicitly states that he’s speaking from a Zionist standpoint. Zionism has NEVER represented anything noble to the Palestinians, and never will. “Noble gesture”, good lord …
Noble gesture, my ass. I suppose you think it’s also a noble gesture when a rapist zips up his pants and moves on to the next victim.
That is not the case.
These individuals are going out on a limb to remind Israelis what true Zionism is all about, the realization of a Jewish homeland where Jews can live in peace and doing so not at the continued expense of any other people(s).
They recognize that Israel cannot live well unless the Palestinians also live reasonably well.
The Israeli presence in the “occupied areas” has corrupted
Israel has no desire to conquer others despite the impression made over the last 40 years.
Both sides need to be tolerant and to understand each others true motives, otherwise we will only perpetuate
the present situation which is not optimal for either side.
“They recognize that Israel cannot live well unless the Palestinians also live reasonably well.”
You reveal everything anyone needs to see by this statement.
“The Israeli presence in the “occupied areas” has corrupted Israeli morals.”
On the contrary, the Israeli presence and conduct in the “occupied territories” (and again you reveal a great deal here) is a reflection of Israeli morals.
“Israel has no desire to conquer others despite the impression made over the last 40 years.”
“Both sides need to be tolerant and to understand each others true motives…”
Yeah, and the rape victim needs to be tolerant and understand the true motives of her rapist, too.
Get over yourself, and get real.
1) Most Palestinians living in Israel have done well
economically when compared to Palestinians in Gaza
or in the west bank.
2) Palestinians in Israel have full freedom of expression
( Can you imagine what would happen to a Jewish
Ahmad Tibi or Hanin Zoabi in Syria)
3) Most Palestinians in Israel do not want to be be ruled
either by the Hamas in Gaza or the PA in Ramallah.
4) However for those same Palestinians living in Israel
something is missing,the Tikva is not their Tikva,
the “shoter” who stops them is not their shoter,
They live as a minority in a land that is theirs but not
5) I understand this but how can Israel be a Zionist state
with a Jewish majority but where Palestinians feel like as
full and equel citizens.
6) How can Israel implement the “Right of Return” for the
descendants of Palestinians who left or were evicted
in 1948 and remain true to herself as a Jewish state.
7) The solution for Ahmad Tibi and Hanin Zoabi is for
Israel,as we know it, to cease to be.
8) How many Jewish Israelis do you thing will buy into that.
9) At some point the Palestinians must compromise on
their demands if they expect Israel to compromise
on her needs.
I’m getting awfully tired of such nonsense. Not to mention that we’ve been over precisely the same ground many times before in the comment threads here. Palestinians living in Israel have the highest poverty rates in the nation. Why compare them to Gaza or the West Bank when that’s not where they live. They’re citizens of Israel, not Gaza. Their standard of living should be compared to others who live in their country. By that standard, they suffer economically.
Palestinians have full freedom of expression? Says who? Why then were 11 killed in Nazareth at a march in 2000? And why was no Israeli police official punished for these murders?
Palestinians in Israel don’t want to be ruled by Hamas because they don’t live in Gaza or the West Bank. They live, once again (& you seem to continually forget this) in ISRAEL.
No, they live as a minority in a land that is THEIRS, full stop (though of course to be shared with Israeli Jews).
Welcome to the real world, buddy. That’s what you have to figure out, isn’t it?
I guess it’s going to have to be a diff. kind of “Jewish state” then isn’t it?
That is a flat out lie. And lies are not allowed here. You may merely be ignorant & be repeating whatever propaganda you’ve been fed with yr mother’s milk. I don’t know. But what I do know is that if you want to repeat smears & calumnies you’ll do it somewhere else.
Sorry, not the way it works. Palestinians don’t give up all their major demands & meekly beg Israel for peace. No self-respecting Palestinians would do so. It is YOU as an Israeli who will have to prove that you want peace. And frankly, I see very little that would make any Palestinian believe you’re prepared for it. YOu sling the same useless slogans that have been slung from time immemorial.
I wonder how fast an Israeli would be banned here to speak like that.
Contrary to what you seem to believe I DO allow people from both the right & left to publish views here w which I disagree. That includes you &, at times, Shirin.
I at least try to keep my language clean.
Ignorance & distortions of reality may not be “dirty” but they’re certainly not clean either.
“I at least try to keep my language clean.”
Oh, you are offended by my use of the word “ass”? I am SOOOOO sorry. Here, let me fix it.
Noble gesture, my tuchus. I suppose you also think it is a noble gesture when the rapist zips up his pants and moves on to his next victim.
The nobel gesture is that he is is making a statement that, in a few years, can put his life at risk.
“I am speaking from a Zionist standpoint – In my eyes, this makes [Israel’s] government clearly anti-Zionist”
Well, I’m not so sure where his argument is leading.
I would change Prof. Yehuda Bauer words to something like this:
I am speaking from a factual standpoint – In my eyes, this clearly makes [Israel’s] government criminal.
Now it makes more sense.