Israeli Brig. Gen. (res.) Oded Tira, former IDF artillery chief, has the unmitigated gall and impudence to urge that Israel attack Iran just before the Congressional mid-term elections when Pres. Obama’s hands will be tied in terms of any punishment he can mete out for the country’s misbehavior. Here’s a little taste of what the Israeli Curtis LeMay proposes:
The clear conclusion is that we must attack. The best timing would be in October before the U.S. Congressional elections. The punishment that can be meted out to Israel on the eve of elections will be limited, if at all. After November, it appears we will get, or so I hope, a Republican majority which will repay us handsomely for the attack and its aftermath.
I only wonder whether Haaretz has the guts to translate this garbage for its English edition. This is not just incitement for war, it is egregious interference in U.S. political affairs. Apparently, Tira and his IDF buddies have been sucking on the U.S. teat for so long they think they’re Americans with a right to topple our government at will.
The folks at Aipac might want to tamp down this sort of lunacy lest it enter into U.S. electoral politics and serve as a backlash that could put Jewish Republicans on the defensive. Lest you say that Tira is a loose cannon, he is a loose cannon who was head of the Israeli Manufacturer’s Association and is an influential figure in business and military circles.
Besides this particular bit of nuttiness, last April Tira wrote in Haaretz that Israel should not only attack Syria due to the SCUD missiles it supposedly supplied to Hezbollah, but that Israel should topple the Assad regime. In other words he advocated another 1982 Lebanon style invasion and usurpation of Syrian sovereignty.
To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. To an artillery officer every nation that blocks Israel’s interests looks like a target to be bombed into submission. Whether or not you argue that Tira is a warmonger, you can’t argue that his views aren’t common among the Israeli generalariat. Even more than in the U.S. army, Israel’s current crop of generals welcomes war and the opportunity to redeem themselves for their past failures, and the ability to test out new weapons systems on the Muslim enemy. To warriors like this, an Israeli holy war against Islam undoubtedly looks almost attractive.
What I don’t understand and never have understood is how an Israeli general can argue that Israel would effectively be able to fight on so many military fronts simultaneously when during the Gaza and Lebanon wars it didn’t fight effectively on a single front. Has he given the least thought how Israel would assault Iran and invade Syria, all the while withstanding the tumultuous reception such news would receive among Palestinians, in Lebanon, etc. These guys are generals. They’re supposed to have brains and use them. Where is the intelligence?
Reader Ariel Shatil draws our attention to other aspects of Tira’s hard-right oddness:
He retired from the military service as Chief of Artillery before I was drafted but lets just say that opinion of him voiced by reservists that I met wasn’t very positive. Two things worth mentioning – Early in the decade he was the Manufacturers Association President and as such was rabid anti-worker, which went well with his general right wing theories.
He faded away mid decade but resurfaced after operation “Cast Lead” when he appeared on national news claiming that the white phosphorus in the photos from Gaza were actually phosphorus tipped pieces of felt that were generally harmless. As someone who served in Artillery for over twenty years (regular and reserves) as a Master Sergeant and has fired thousands of shells, I can tell you that there he described a non-existent munition.
How long we have sunk! Bombing another nation for our political gain, or to stop our dollar from collapsing! This is criminal and very impeachable. Like Jefferson said, “When I consider that God is just, I tremble for my country.”
Let me get this straight. When faced with an existential threat you want your nation’s leaders to lie down on their backs and look cuddly so the enemy will hopefully leave you alone? Do you really understand your enemy?
{o.o} Just askin’
Been readin’ Bibi’s speeches & press releases I see. Teheran 2010 is Munich 1938, right? Iranian nukes would be a flyin’ Holocaust, right? Do you expect any reasonable person to believe the hasbara you’re peddlin’??? Fuhgedaboudit!
The constant warning of a near-future attack is only intended to have a political effect. The real attack, if it occurs, will not be like that.
However the affair does remind me of the Battle of Kursk in 1943, where the Nazis announced so loud and so long what they were about to do, that the Soviets were well prepared.
After all, how many different options are available, that are unknown? They send the planes through Georgia. They send them through Saudi. All that is expected. All else requires close US support.
it’s an accident waiting to happen, and the Israelis know it. At least I hope they know it. Otherwise we are in Kursk territory.
Although it’s the character of General Turgidson who actually decides to bomb the Soviet Union, it’s Dr. Strangelove who describes in detail the rational and practical ways to deal with total destruction, which is what is implied by Tara’s text.
Regardless or not to/of the US angle here, Oded Tira represents the prevailing salient conception favored by the Israelis military & politicians. A conception which is ingrained & predominant in Israel. (I’ll leave it to you to translate)
“מה שלא הולך בכוח, ילך בעוד יותר כוח”
“What doesn’t work through force, will work with even more force.”
1/ Since Lemay spent much of 1942 and 1943 leading attacks on a country that wanted to wipe out Jews I guess the comparison is at least partially apt.
2/ As to comparisons between Tira and the character of Dr Strangeglove, I guess not too many people have seen the movie.
Actually, many have seen the movie & the comparison is entirely apt.
The character of Dr Strangelove in the movie was a physically disabled civilian scientist with a heavy German accent.
This is Tira?
Are you dense? The similarity isn’t in the way they look, but in the insanity of their militaristic views.
Thank you for insisting. A reply of mine from two days ago got thrown at the bottom of the comments because of a misclick of mine. I didn’t think it appropriate to continue diverting this discussion into a Strangelove analysis, although I was quite surprised by a few comments’ obsessive attention to cinematic detail for which Sigmund Freud had invented a popular anatomical imagery.
So no, Tira is not German, not a civilian and his right arm is probably working just fine. Please forgive me for bringing that up.
Dave is a literalist when it’s convenient & a fabulist when it comes to defending Israel.
the words are stupid, but i dont see how they or the general is interfering in the american political process
one voice does not the whole idf infrastructure or israeli government make…and i highly doubt an attack will occur in october
They know the souls of our politicians are bought for the price of a congress seat. It says more about us than them.
This is the i don’t know how many posts in the last few days about the same constant drumbeat of war from inside and outside.
Everything is easy for this moron, he has ZERO responsibility about anything. So armchair generals like this one can say anything he wants.
If he is a sick bastard Haaretz does him a great favor by printing this crap. Since when did that paper turn into a Hyde Park stool for every lunatic don’t they have some sense of not pouring fuel into the already more than combustible times we live in.
Sad
I couldn’t agree more about Haaretz. The NY Times op ed section also gives voice to lunatics like Edward Luttwak & Benny Morris & others who advocate bombing Iran to the Stone Age.
There’s a miscalculation a mile wide in there, somewhere.
President Obama doesn’t have to punish Israel, merely leave her in the lurch, like Ted Kennedy after a dinner date. And if he presents this as saving American soldiers from another pointless war, he will get warm support, even from right-wing Americans.
AIPAC no longer represents the entirety of the American right, let alone American politics. It is very loud, but it is not convincing.
There’s also the little matter of the GRU general who washed up dead on a beach in Turkey, after last being seen alive in Syria. I note that the usual idiots who hail presumed Mossad murders as great victories are keeping mum about that one, as well they might.
But just possibly, you should add Mother Russia to the list of countries that the IDF is willing to rouse to battle. AIPAC will NOT be able to persuade Obama to fight on Israel’s side if the Russians are on the other side. His military are simply too exhausted, too much equipment has been worn out or not properly updated, in order to pay for the two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And with Russian submarines once more on patrol off America’s coastline, America would be placing her own cities on the frontline and not just her soldiers.
The death of the GRU general may yet make the USA a distant spectator at the intended Ragnorak.
“how an Israeli general can argue that Israel would effectively be able to fight on so many military fronts simultaneously when during the Gaza and Lebanon wars it didn’t fight effectively on a single front…”
what makes you say that? The war in Gaza was quite effective. It’s purpose was to stop Hamas’ rocket fire, which it did.That’s how the military thinks and in a large part, they’re correct. The international fallout is not their problem anyway.
How Oded Tira says such things? Easily. Words don’t cost money. When you’re a factory owner, you can advocate anything. He’s not accountable.
“it is egregious interference in U.S. political affairs”
why is it an interference at all? It’s merely a statement of preferred outcome from a man which has no influence in the U.S.
The “war” in Gaza was not a war – it was a rampage, a massacre of which Israel should be ashamed, but unfortunately crows about as a “victory.” And it was NOT to stop Hamas rockets, which had already ceased under the conditions of the ceasefire entered into in 2008, and which Israel violated. The massacre was yet another form of collective punishment against the Gazans meant to force them to overthrow their elected government, Hamas.
Israel doesn’t know how to fight a war against an equal adversary. It is a bully who can declare “victory” only against the weak, poor and unarmed. By anyone’s estimation, Hezbullah gave Israel a run for its money back in 2006.
http://conflictsforum.org/2006/how-hezbollah-defeated-israel/
“From the onset of the conflict to its last operations, Hezbollah commanders successfully penetrated Israel’s strategic and tactical decision-making cycle across a spectrum of intelligence, military and political operations, with the result that Hezbollah scored a decisive and complete victory in its war with Israel.”
I agree that the war against Hezbollah wasn’t a victory. Yet, Nasrallah himself admitted that he hadn’t anticipated such a response for his assault and had he been able to anticipate, he wouldn’t have done it. Some deterrence was achieved, so it wasn’t a complete loss either.
As for equality, Hezbollah isn’t exactly equal to the IDF. The IDF is good in fighting conventional armies, which the Hezbollah isn’t. The one “regular army” weapon the Hezbollah had, which are the medium range rockets, were destroyed immediately.
as for the war in Gaza – you can call it anything you’d like. The so-called ceasefire was violated first by Hamas. the ceasefire in itself is ridiculous since they still have Gilad Shalit. (the conditions of his capture are a violation of international law by themselves)
We’re rapidly going OT here, but I have my doubts about the Gaza democracy as well.
Oh you mean the deterrence that Hezbollah now has many more rockets in its stocks than it did in 2006? And more sophisticated ones? And is as well prepared or better for another IDF attack? You mean THAT deterrence?
Which you know how? When was the last time it fought a “conventional army?” And how do you know that a war against a conventional army fought in 1973 means the IDF is “good at fighting conventional armies” today?
Yakov, you say the purpose of the attack on Gaza was to stop Hamas’ rocket fire.
That is nonsense. Hamas hadn’t fired any rockets during the truce until Israel broke it on November 4 2008 by attacking inside the Gaza Strip and killing 6 or 7 Hamas operatives. In response several dozen rockets were fired, some by Hamas, toward Israel, and three Israeli women were treated for shock as a result.
It seems clear Israel was frustrated at Hamas’ continued holding to the truce, so it wanted to provoke some violence it could use to justify the attack on Gaza. As always when there has been a truce, it has been first violated by Israel.
I’m still wondering how Yacov can claim that Hamas broke the ceasefire. But that’s already been discussed again and again.
There seems to be a pattern – always a provocation to “justify” attacking the Palestinians, whether it’s an allegation of smuggling, “infiltrating,” or a tinfoil rocket gets fired by a fringe group and it’s blamed on Hamas. None of the “justifications” are ever substantiated. How can they be, when they’re merely excuses?
Oh, and Gaza went very well militarily; over 700 known members of terrorist groups killed and fewer than 500 civilians during urban warfare. Not counting the Fatah members and other civilians Hamas executed for “collaborating” with Israel.
If anyone tells you otherwise, remember, they are getting their numbers from Hamas, or from someone who got their numbers from Hamas, and their “civilian dead” lists include a lot of terrorists like Nizar Rayan, a leader of Hamas’s terrorist wing.
Those are bulslhit statistics. Actually, 300 Hamas militants were killed & 1,100 civilians were killed. You’re quoting IDF statistics which are about as reliable as Pravda in the days of the Soviets. GOldstone found evidence of war crimes & the issue will eventually be adjudicated in an international criminal court w. Israeli generals & politicians (& Palestinian militants as well) likely in the docket. I’d say it went swimmingly for Israel.
Liar. These correct statistics are fr. the UN which painstakingly verified ea. death certificate in order to come up w. correct numbers. Can you tell me how the IDF would have a clue how many it killed when it didn’t give a shit about the dead & let them rot for days where it shot them?
I’m giving you a final warning: if you see yrself as Israel’s protector in these threads & mouth false statements you’ve heard or read fr. propaganda sites, you won’t last very long as a commenter here. So take stock of what you’re doing & writing here. If not, I’m about as interested in having a pro Israel hack spout endlessly as I am in root canal.
It’s not interference in U.S. political affairs, egregious or otherwise. Interference would be trying to change U.S. political affairs, not just keeping track of them.
If they were doing something to try to get Republicans elected, that would be interference. This is seeing which way the winds are blowing and going with them.
As for an attack, it’s very unlikely. If they were going to attack, they would have done it before the reactor was fueled. At which point the world would have publicly howled in outrage and privately sighed with relief that the Iranians had been denied the nuclear bomb. Like when Israel bombed the Osirak reactor in Iraq.
An Israeli general & former head of the leading national business advocacy group calling for a Republican victory in U.S. elections in a major Israeli newspaper is most definitely an intervention in U.S. political affairs. This op ed will be trumpeted by the Republican Jewish Coalition which never met an Israeli general it didn’t like, esp. ones who endorse Republicans.
Well, didn’t Israel attack Gaza in the last days of the Bush administration knowing that the outgoing POTUS wouldn’t lift a finger to stop it? What’s the difference? Ever manipulative, conniving and sneaky, always opportunistic, Israel will do whatever it wishes to do, and no one stops them.
Hmmm, “ever manipulative, conniving and sneaky, always opportunistic”. Now what ethnic group have I heard that racist stereotype applied to? Can’t think of it right now, but I’m sure I’ve heard that used on one particular group.
Oh, right, historically, it was used on Jews. Of course that was before “Israelis are -insert racist stereotypes against Jews-” became an acceptable cover for anti-Semites who really mean “Jews are -insert racist stereotype against Jews-“.
I guess “racist” remarks are only banned here when it is racism against non-Jews.
Bob: I’m invoking the “3 comment a day” rule for you which I impose on commenters who monopolize the comment threads with 10 or more comments a day. While you’ve reduced the length of yr comments you’ve increased the frequency. So 3 a day. I don’t care which threads you comment on, but you’re done at 3.
Your comment was typically vacuous lumping criticism of Israelis with criticism of Jews which for you are one & the same thing; but which any reasonable person understands as 2 separate categories. I’m rapidly losing patience w. yr grandstanding. So stop beating yr breast over Israelis & Jews as victims, & think of something actually useful & interesting & new to say or…
Oh please, Bob. Give us a break. Making racist inferences is such a cheap way to poison the well, don’t you think?
These idiots are what is left over after the best and the brightest of Israel’s young people refuse to sign on for a second enlistment after the first required by the officer training course. As a result, the mean IQ of the officer corps is what it is. I am told that something similar happens five years after graduation from West Point, vid. McChrystal.. Read Dixon, Psychology of Military Incompetence to understand better what is behind this. In reality, no one will listen to them, but it helps get votes in the Likud primaries. One should also understand that they have no idea of how a liberal democracy such as the US still is functions.
The real ‘enemies of peace’ are those who are escalating the arms race in the Middle East. We can expect a nuclear war in the region anytime very soon. Israel’s nuclear arsenal will be deployed to protect its cities from an Iranian counter-attack and the world’s first nuclear war will have commenced. Oil at $300+ and the Dow at 6000 will just be the start of the economic and political meltdown.
If this is not to happen then the US must use its undoubted power to bring the recalcitrant parties to heel. That means a complete ban on the export of arms and the declaration by the UNSC of a NUCLEAR FREE ZONE covering the entire MidEast including Iran and Israel. There is no alternative solution.
These so-called peace talks are an elaborate cover for the war to which Israel is already committed and which is, far and away, the greatest imminent danger facing the world today.
At least several comments on the Ha’aretz site were lucid enough to make the obvious comparison between Tira and Dr. Strangelove. Personally I think of this line from another doomsday universe, The Final Cut album: “Take all your overgrown infants away somewhere, and build them a home, a little place of their own…”
Unfortunately, these are not just overgrown infants, they hold the reins of power, just as the neocons do in the USA. They are firm in their belief that they can attack Lebanon, Syria and Iran at will, and that the USA will be behind them all the way, no matter how much the US administration denies it. Under cover of war with Iran, Israel will complete its goal of total control of Eretz Israel, which includes everything between the Euphrates and the Nile. We can laugh at the “Dr. Strangeloves”, but they will have their way.
My feeling too. Israel does and will work\manipulate\coerce the US into taking control of the ME as much as possible.
as to Tira`s timetable- election time was used before to launch the 2008-09 Gaza drill. Israel times its criminal attackes so theyll fall on just such major events, drawing attention and “punishments” from its assaults. drawer plans awaite the `right timing`. even princess Diana