18 thoughts on “What Three Years in an Israeli Prison Will Do to You – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. I’m not sure you are right – from what I understand Palestinians become less radicalized in Israeli prisons. The Palestinian side of Combatants for Peace, for example, emerged from a group of Palestinian prisoners (as have a number of other peace initiatives). Of course, to imprison without trial vast numbers of Palestinians is still wrong, but we shouldn’t necessarily assume that their experiences radicalize them further.

    1. The 15 yr old boy who committed a suicide bombing in Eilat (I believe) a yr ago or so had been beaten to a pulp in Israeli prisons & came out swearing to wreak his revenge. And he did.

      So much for Israeli prison time turning out nice, moderate Palestinians. I don’t think Israeli prisons in & of themselves moderate the political views of Palestinians.

      1. The Eilat bomber was 21. Was not a Israeli prisoner or beaten by Israelis.
        People will read your comment and I’m sure never see my rebuttal will believe your story about a 15 year old beaten in jail by Israelis.
        “Muhammed Faisal al-Saqsaq (the bomber), 21, was a resident of Gaza City and member of the Fatah-affiliated al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades. According to relatives, Saksak had been despondent because he was unemployed and his baby daughter died recently of an illness. Also, his best friend had been killed in a clash with Israeli forces. His brother is a top Islamic Jihad militant. His family said he was missing for three days, but apparently knew his fate. “We knew that he was going to carry out a martyrdom operation,” Saksak’s brother, Naeem, told reporters at the family home in Beit Lahia. “His mother and father prayed for him to succeed.”

        1. My mistake. It was Dimona, not Eilat:

          Fifteen year-old Mohammed Salem Al-Harbawi from Hebron is a case in point. According to the Defense for Children International, he was arrested in the beginning of July of 2003 and taken to Atzion detention centre. Like many other prisoners, the report continues, Al-Harbawi was visited by a lawyer, but was unable to see or communicate with his family:

          The unhygienic conditions in this centre mean that most inmates, including Mohammad, have contracted skin diseases, including boils. By July 28, 2003, Mohammed was affected so badly that he was taken for hospital treatment. After the doctor had examined him, Israeli border guards took him back to the prison. On the way, the guards stopped the jeep and started to attack him inside the vehicle. The five guards beat him to such an extent that he lost consciousness.

          I stumbled over this report of his stay in prison when I Googled Al-Harbawi’s name. Last Monday, now a child of 20, he blew himself up, along with Lyubov Razdolskaya, 73, in the streets of Dimona…

  2. Imagine what 3 years of captivity and probably torture have done to poor kidnapped Cpl. Schalit. No Red Cross visits. Schalit’s only crime was to born an Israeli.

    1. Imagine what 3 years of captivity and probably torture

      You’re a LIAR. Provide a single shred of evidence documenting this claim. If you don’t, they don’t write it here. Read my comment rules. If you want to hypothecize that the moon is made of green cheese be by guest to do it elsewhere. We traffic in truth & facts, not baseless conjecture.

      More bullshit regarding Shalit’s crime being born an Israeli. He was a member of the IDF, which was why he was captured. I don’t approve of the kidnapping, but I disapprove almost as much of yr mendacity.

      1. GAZA, June 25 (Reuters) – Following is a text of a statement by captive Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit as heard in an audio tape released by his Palestinian captors in Gaza. Translation is by Reuters from the original Hebrew:
        “I, the soldier Gilad, son of Noam Shalit held by the Khattab Shaheed Izz al-Deen al-Kassam.
        “Mother and father, my sister and my brother, my friends in the Israel Defence Forces:
        “I send you from jail regards and my longing for all of you.
        “An entire year has passed with me in jail and still my health condition is deteriorating and I need extensive hospitalisation.
        “I am sorry for the lack of interest by the Israeli government and the army in my case and in the demands of Katab al Qassam.
        “It is clear that they must accede to these demands in order that I may be released from jail. Especially as I was involved in a military operation under orders and I was not a drugs dealer. “Just as I have parents, a mother and a father, the thousands of Palestinian detainees also have mothers and fathers who must have their sons returned.
        “I have great faith in my government that it will take more of an interest in me and will answer the demands of the mujahideen.
        “Corporal Gilad Shalit”.

        Alone isolated, no Red cross visits and forced to make statements about how his health is deteriorating and he needs hospitalization, that his captors are not giving him, is torture in every sense of the word.

        1. forced to make statements about how his health is deteriorating and he needs hospitalization, that his captors are not giving him, is torture

          This is NOT torture. You’re talking s(&t. Hamas has sworn that he has not been harmed. The Israeli government has NEVER insinuated that he has been tortured. Neither has his family breathed a word of this as a possibility. The only people who talk of torture are rightist propagandists like yrself. So once again, if you make this claim w/o proof your privileges will be revoked after having been warned twice. Proof & facts are the coin of the realm here. If you don’t have any don’t go there. If you do you suffer the consequences.

          And btw, why not a word of empathy for 1/3 of the entire Palestinian legislature which was kidnapped & imprisoned as hostages for three yrs. They weren’t even combatants. They haven’t received Red Cross visits either. You’re a hypocrite. I’ve denounced Shalit’s kidnapping. But you don’t have a word of concern for Israel’s far more egregious violation of international law (kidnapping of civilian political leaders).

    2. “Poor Shalit” was captured, not kidnapped. As a militant he was fair game to be prevented from attacking and possibly killing Palestinians.

  3. The cynic in me is beginning to believe that draconian imprisonment in repressive governments like ours and Israel’s is mostly about perpetuating the dynamic of “crime”, “terrorism”, and so on, committed usually by those on the outside of the accepted system (like Hamas, for instance). The people targeted come out hardened by abuse and ill treatment and this increases the likelihood they’ll act in ways that “confirm” why (if there even was a good reason) they were incarcerated in the first place, this in turn greases the economic & political wheels of the national security and prison state (there’s a great article in the current Nation about incarceration in the U.S.). It also consolidates the control of the powerful and entitled over the rest of the population.

    An unattached observer might come to the conclusion that Israel (thinks it) needs enemies. I’m not sure why, maybe it has to do with confirming, re-validating something deep in the national psyche about eternal persecution and the supposed congenital hostility of the surrounding non-Jewish world. However you psychologically deconstruct it, the national narrative appears to necessitate enemies, and Israel, by its barbaric unconscionable treatment of the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories as well as its treatment of the region (see Lebanon), does a good job of creating the reality it seems to at least subconsciously want.

  4. Phil Weiss just posted an article that states that Palestinian children who have watched as Israel humiliates and degrades their fathers have found a new model of manhood: IDF soldiers.
    The hate comes full circle: IDF seems to be modeling the soldiers who victimized Jews, and the victims of IDF’s hate now model their victimizers.

  5. Richard, you wrote:
    “Provide a single shred of evidence documenting this claim. If you don’t, they don’t write it here. Read my comment rules. If you want to hypothecize that the moon is made of green cheese be by guest to do it elsewhere. We traffic in truth & facts, not baseless conjecture.”

    In another piece you wrote:
    “This statement reflects Israel’s talking points on this subject so precisely that I frankly have a hard time believing that “Mohammad” is who he claimed to be. It is certainly within the realm of possibility for Israeli intelligence to engage in this sort of media manipulation to advance its interests within the US…Can I prove Mohammad is a fraud? No. But there are only two sets of interests which could benefit from the type of malarkey Muhammed is peddling: Israel and the mullahs. And I doubt the mullahs are thinking much about using CNN to smear the reformers – although I could be wrong.”


    1. You are tiresome, Alex. First, Grendal claimed w/o a shred of evidence that Gilad Shalit was tortured. That violates my comment rules which require that allegations be supported by credible sources & evidence.

      Second, I quoted an interview on CNN with an alleged Iranian named Mohammed (CNN never provided any due diligence to allow the audience to determine this person was who he claimed to be) who maDe talking points that could’ve been written for him by Israeli intelligence. Pls tell me a single Iranian living in Iran who has said that all Iranians want to recognize Israel. There may be such Iranians, but to say that “the Iranian people” accepts Israel, is simply preposterous. I wish it were true, but it simply isn’t (at least not yet). Mohammed called for U.S. sanctions on imports of gasoline to Iran. Isn’t it ironic that this is precisely what is on the U.S. Congress’ agenda & that the bill’s most ardent supporter is Aipac. What a coincidence!

      So cut out the bullshit “extraordinary”s & make a compelling argument. This isn’t a debate tournament in which you score pts w. snarky one liners. If that’s what you’re looking for it’s not here.

  6. Well it’s fairly simple – you’ve both written a claim without providing any evidence. Yours was slightly more couched, but barely so. Surely it would have been better to point out that the views of the Iranian student didn’t seem representative of the broader views of the Iranian public (although I always thought it was well known that the Iranian people weren’t as ideologically hostile to Israel as their leaders are). The point is you frequently raise allegations without evidence, sometimes with the disclaimer that you’re researching it with some ‘deep sources’ or something similar, but chastise others who do the same. This is double standards.

    1. That’s preposterous. I just wrote an entire comment to you and there was even more material in the post documenting my suspicions. And again I labelled them as suspicions, not as truth. The commenter asserted the fact of Shalit’s torture w/o any evidence. What part of that distinction don’t you understand?

      I always thought it was well known that the Iranian people weren’t as ideologically hostile to Israel as their leaders are

      Really? On what do you base this “well-known” fact?

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