11 thoughts on “Trumpeldor, Zionist Martyr or Jewish Custer? – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. “To this day, the IDF holds a major military ceremony for every trainee at Masada to inculcate this culture of sacrifice in the new troops”

    More accurately: all combat soldiers are formally inducted into the IDF at a major ceremony. Some of these take place on Massada. Others, include the former British police station at Latroun, and, the Western Wall.

    Far more significant in the education of Israeli soldiers are the West Bank settlers. The settlers have embraced the cult of suicidal behavior. Trumpeldor lives through their determination to hold on to life-threatening outposts and their celebration of martyrdom (“kedoshim”). One of the main functions of the IDF is to protect and enforce the settler system. Every soldier gets this message loud and clear.

  2. Your reference to “shahid” reminded me of the literature distributed to high school boys in “dati leumi” (national religious) schools in Israel (I am having trouble recalling who exactly published it). One of my sons who received the so-called “spiritual strengthening” booklet commented how similar the call-to-holy-war language was to calls for jihad. This is a part of an inculcation into a militaristic-nationalistic mind-set that leaves room for considering neither the narrative of the “other” nor what Richard calls “pragmatic conflict resolution.”

  3. Michael,

    What you are describing is not generally true. Many IDF units have ceremonies at historic sites often remembering battles that the unit has fought there. You seem to quote that from somewhere. Please name your source. Also you are making the allegation that the settlers “embraced the cult of suicidal behavior”. Quod erat demonstrandum dear Michael. I have served in a combat unit and this “protect the settlers” message that you seem to be so sure about never came along. In fact guarding settlers in the Gaza Strip was rather annoying and there was absolutely no religious indoctrination whatsoever in the army.

    Your comparison of Jihadi suicidal cult and jewish settlers in the West Bank is outrageous. Trumpeldor is about defending Jews in their homeland not to kill other people and becoming a Shahid. It is interesting how far jewish self hate has developed if you are jewish at all.

    Simcha,

    If you don’t like the National Religious Movement why do you send your kids to their schools?

    “a militaristic-nationalistic mind-set that leaves room for considering neither the narrative of the “other” nor what Richard calls “pragmatic conflict resolution.” Yeah, the Nazis would wet their pants if they could hear you.

    Why don’t you start negotiations with the KKK, Hamas and the Taliban and I would then be interested who will work with you towards a pragmatic conflict resolution.

    1. I have served in a combat unit and this “protect the settlers” message that you seem to be so sure about never came along.

      I’m sorry but yr personal experience in the IDF is anecdotal. I’ve have read numerous accounts both by Israeli journalists and Israeli peace activists portraying specifically what you claim you never experienced. It is a well known fact that IDF units protect settlements both legal & illegal and that they often stand by doing nothing while assaults are perpetrated by settler militia/hooligans. There is video of this available as well if you don’t trust written accounts.

      As for religious indoctrination, don’t you read Haaretz? Didn’t you read the Oranim testimony. They document in great detail the religious indoctrination you claim you never experienced. You’re not in the IDF anymore. THese events happened after yr service ended. Couldn’t you at least acknowledge that instead of implying that because you never experienced it it never happened.

      Trumpeldor is about defending Jews in their homeland not to kill other people and becoming a Shahid.

      Not quite true. His final action leading to his death was quite suicidal though of course it’s true he was a national hero both in his day & today. That doesn’t mask the fact that his final act was akin to the Masada/Alamo/Little Big Horn style suicide for the sake of national honor.

      It’s possible Trumpeldor didn’t intend things to work out that way. But there was little or no strategic or tactical reason for him to place himself in the position he did which led to his death. And those who followed him turned him into the equivalent of a Shahid. If you don’t acknowledge or recognize this perhaps it’s because you’re too close to the events in question to see the forest for the trees.

    2. “What you are describing is not generally true. Many IDF units have ceremonies at historic sites often remembering battles that the unit has fought there. You seem to quote that from somewhere. Please name your source.”

      I’m not clear on what you are referring to. The example I gave of Latroun is exactly what you are speaking about too.

      “It is interesting how far jewish self hate has developed if you are jewish at all.”

      You open up an important discussion – who can engage in discussion on Israel’s settler program on the West Bank?

      Israel and Israelis actively seek the involvement of “Diaspora Jews” along with Christians and everybody else. Money, political support, discussion are all welcome.
      You, however, suggest that there are limits to this involvement. Why? And if you impose limits on Jews or non-Jews (your implication that non-Jews shouldn’t even enter the discussion) then why stop there? Shouldn’t we forbid residents of Tel Aviv to have an opinion on the settlements? Certainly, not Christians. We can safely assume that neither West Bank nor Israeli Arabs can enter this discussion either.
      Who are we left with? Settlers, and the reservist soldiers who grumble a bit while enforcing the settlers’ system of apartheid.

  4. Richard,

    Thanks for your reply. You must accept the fact that the IDF as an organisation that teaches high morale standards. As in any other army there are lunatics, religous or secular, that commit crimes and do not live up to the standards set by the IDF. Any offender will be prosecuted and that is something I have experienced when religious and secular soldiers have been caught stealing from Palestininans.

    Protecting a settlement is not a political statement by the army but by the political level. And I believe that we simply do not have a choice but to protect the settlers to prevent another slaughter just like in 1929. Or do you claim that in 1929 the IDF and the State of Israel where to blaim. Well they simply did not exist back then.

    I do read Haaretz and I am sometimes disgusted when I read Amira Hass and others. But Israel is a democracy and open society and that my friend is the difference.

    Talking about Shahid culture we do not celebrate on the streets and give out candy if civilians are being killed. In fact the IDF is making every effort to prevent civilian casualties. Shahid culture like Hamas, AQ and Hizbollah are trying to kill as many civillians as possible. That, my friend, is the difference.

    There is a big difference between Massada and a suicide bomber. Don’t you think? And if I am too close to the events I wonder where you are.

    Cheers

    1. Alex, I also served in a combat unit in the IDF as a communication officer and I used to think like you. Since then I understood that I was lucky to be stuck in Lebanon where little contact with locals occurred and what time I spend in the territories was during the peace process.

      You say:
      Any offender will be prosecuted and that is something I have experienced when religious and secular soldiers have been caught stealing from Palestininans.

      It is now clear that since the second intifada started IDF does next to nothing to prosecute killing of the Palestinians civilians. Lawrence of Cyberia compiled a list of cases. This is 4 years old. Read and weep.

      I can confirm the assertion that IDF delegates investigation of civilian deaths to the level of the battalion commander. Some soldiers in my reserve duty battalion killed an old Palestinian woman after it came under fire from a grove near Hebron. They shot all around without identifying the source of fire, which they were reprimanded for by my battalion commander. There was no investigation beyond that.

    2. the IDF as an organisation that teaches high morale standards.

      Frankly, I doubt that. I’ve seen descriptions of the IDF’s moral code & discussions with the authors of the code. I think the code is fatally flawed in many ways from what I have read. But leaving that aside, it hardly matters what is TAUGHT. It’s how what is taught is interpreted & acted upon in the field that matters. The horrific toll taken by the IDF & BOrder Police in various criminal acts against Palestinian civilians over the years indicate a total moral failure in the field. In fact, in practice the IDF has no interest in morals. THere may be highly moral, principled individual commanders and soldiers who go the extra mile to honor their own individual moral codes or one taught them in a classroom. But there are far fewer of these individuals than is necessary to be able to give the IDF the high marks you do.

      Any offender will be prosecuted

      This may’ve been true in your unit or experience, but IDF officers & soldiers act with impunity. The only thing that trips them up sometimes is a video camera which capture their aberrant behavior. Then they sometimes (rarely) pay a price.

      I believe that we simply do not have a choice but to protect the settlers

      Thank God Danny Zamir disagreed with you & went to prison for his convictions. I disagree with you too & personally were I an Israeli citizen would not serve in the Territories.

      I am sometimes disgusted when I read Amira Hass

      Disgusted by the behavior she uncovers or by her own views?

      Israel is a democracy and open society

      For you a privileged Anglo-Israeli Jew maybe. But not for other ethnic groups. Actually, Israel is an ethnocracy & not a full democracy.

      Talking about Shahid culture we do not celebrate on the streets

      Aren’t you forgetting Trumpeldor & Masada? Israelis worship these events. They are core elements of national identity.

      the IDF is making every effort to prevent civilian casualties

      How little you know. If you really read Haaretz, Lawrence or Cyberia of this blog you’d know how false your believe is.

      Shahid culture like Hamas, AQ and Hizbollah are trying to kill as many civillians as possible.

      If Hamas & Hezbollah were REALLY trying to do what you claim there would be Israelis dead virtually every day. You forget that both are honoring a ceasefire. So your claim is specious, inaccurate & annoyingly partisan. I’m deeply annoyed by the term “Shahid culture” which you’ve picked up fr. MEMRI or CAMERA or the J.Post. It’s prejudicial & propagandistic.

      There is a big difference between Massada and a suicide bomber.

      You mean to say that the defenders of Masada would not have taken out Roman soldiers through suicide attacks if they could have? C’mon. Of course they would.

  5. So, far from being heroes or martyrs (do I hear the word “shahid” anyone?), they are closer to the headstrong fool represented by Custer who allowed his stubbornness, self-regard, and underestimation of the enemy to cloud his judgment, thus leading to annihilation of himself and his comrades.

    His final action leading to his death was quite suicidal though of course it’s true he was a national hero both in his day & today. That doesn’t mask the fact that his final act was akin to the Masada/Alamo/Little Big Horn style suicide for the sake of national honor.

    So Trumpeldor and the Tel Hai settlers were arrogant fools who thought they couldn’t be defeated…or they were single-minded fanatics who didn’t care if they lived or died. Which is it? Custer didn’t fight at Little Bighorn out of “defiant nationalism,” he just thought he would win. You can’t claim that Tel Hai was the birthplace of a (fictional) “Zionist cult of death” and also claim that its defenders were not self-sacrificing or ideologically committed but simply dumb.

    1. Which is it?

      Neither one precludes the possibility of the other.

      Custer didn’t fight at Little Bighorn out of “defiant nationalism,”

      You must be kidding. Have you never heard of the most important concept of settling the American west, manifest destiny? Do you not think Custer believed in the intrinsic superiority of the white man & his culture (the good ol’ USofA) over the dark-skinned Indian??

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