18 thoughts on “Israeli President Cops Plea for Rape, No Jail Time – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Important facts to keep in mind when hearing stories about Israeli politicians who are being investigated:
    (1) ALL investigations of politicians are POLITICALLY MOTIVATED. They have nothing to do with “investigating crime” or “discovering the truth”. They are designed to harass politicians who are not part of the ruling secular Ashkenazi elite, or are impeding those who have power within that system (e.g Rabin’s bank account in 1977, Weizman’s bribe-taking in 2000, etc). That is not to say that those being investigated are not guilty of something, but the police, media and state prosecutor’s office , once they decide to politically eradicate someone go into a “get something on him mode”.
    If you don’t believe what I am saying, look in the recent archives of the Jerusalem Post. PRof Amnon Rubinstein, one of the founders of MERETZ and former cabinet minister lays what I am saying out in detail. He points out that the woman who brought charges against Haim Ramon was threatened herself with being charged with “obstruction of justice” if she didn’t lodge a complaint against Ramon for his heinous crime.

    (2) Remember the old adage “innocent until proven guilty”? Katsav didn’t rape anybody and no charges are being filed. Thus, regarding the rape charge, I completely believe him.

    (3) All three major newspapers in Israel plus the state radio and TV are controlled by the far-Left in Israel. They are not “unbiased” and they have a clear political agenda.

    (4) By some major coincidence, all four politicians who really had their lives destroyed by these malicious prosecutions were Sefardim, three of them religious….. In one of the cases, the complainant tried to withdraw the charges claiming she was coerced into making them, but the court refused to accept her statement! Haim Ramon was NOT accused of “moral turpitude” so that after he was forced out of the Justice Ministry (because he opposed the appointent of Dorit Beinish who is a whole story of corruption by herself-I will tell you about her if you are interested) and she got the appointment, they turned around and basically forgave Ramon and so he is waiting for a new cabinet appointment, but you must remember that he is a member of the Ashkenazi ruling elite…..so as they said in the movie “The Gdfather”..”it was just business”, so he is back, unlike the others whom I mentioned above.

    Like I said, I can’t say if Katsav is a tzaddik or not, but I quite sure he didn’t rape anybody.
    The Leftist ruling clique is not happy until they really crush and destroy their political rivals.
    What happened to the adage that Jews are “rahmanim b’nai rahmanim”?

  2. ALL investigations of politicians are POLITICALLY MOTIVATED. They have nothing to do with “investigating crime” or “discovering the truth”.

    There is much truth in this statement & the reason for this is that Israel does not have a firmly entrenched rule of law, checks & balances, & constitution as the U.S. & other nations have. Be that as it may, just because justice there is more political than it is here doesn’t mean that prosecutions are all tainted by political self-interest. I find it outrageous that the president of yr nation can have a history of abuse of members of yr own gender (I assume you are a woman) including allegations of rape & yet you dismiss it all with the wave of a hand saying it’s all political.

    Do you think Israelis including the attorney general are happy they caught Katsav at this? Do you think it gives them joy to witness his downfall? If you do, you’re preposterous.

    Remember the old adage “innocent until proven guilty”? Katsav didn’t rape anybody and no charges are being filed. Thus, regarding the rape charge, I completely believe him.

    Yr. head is buried in the sand. There’s a line of women going out the door accusing him of various sexual misdeeds going back to his days as Transport minister. Women HAVE accused him of raping them. The fact that a chicken shit AG who won’t stand up for Israeli women won’t charge him with rape doesn’t obscure the fact that he did it. I’m not a judge or jury. I can believe what I want. Israelis can believe what they want. We all know what he did. The women he assaulted know what he did. You “don’t know nuttin'” as the mobsters used to say. Bless you in yr willed ignorance.

    All three major newspapers in Israel plus the state radio and TV are controlled by the far-Left in Israel.

    You have already stated this fallacy & I’ve already disproved it once before. Neither Maariv nor Yediot can by any stretch of the imagination be called “far left.” Even Haaretz can at best be called liberal or center-left. This indicates how “far right” you are to mischaracterize their political viewpt. Don’t make this accusation here a 3rd time.

    he was forced out of the Justice Ministry (because he opposed the appointent of Dorit Beinish

    Yr right wing conspiracy theories may entertain you but not me. Ramon was forced out of the Justice Ministry because he french-kissed an IDF soldier.

    I can’t say if Katsav is a tzaddik or not

    This is pathetic. I can say what he is, say it after me: R-A-P-I-S-T. Or if that’s too strong for you: brutalizer of women; serial abuser, etc.

    What happened to the adage that Jews are “rahmanim b’nai rahmanim”?

    There are times in life when you must decide which person deserves yr mercy. In this instance it isn’t even close. Katsav’s victims deserve my mercy, your mercy, & every Israeli’s mercy. If Katsav wants mercy maybe God will provide it. I certainly won’t.

    And come to think of it even God won’t provide mercy because Katsav hasn’t even admitted his sins. Without teshuva there is no forgiveness.

  3. (1) Did you read Ari Shavit’s inteview with Amnon Rubinstein?

    (2) You don’t KNOW any more abou the case case than I do. You are basing your
    supposed “knowledge” upon rumors spread by the media and ILLEGAL leaks
    from the police’s investigation. If you read Rubinstein’s interview you will
    see that the police and prosecutors go on “sweeps” for potential witnesses
    using threats and coercion on these witnesses to make it seem like there
    is a “strong case”. The police, media and prosecutors were never interested
    in building a case that could hold up in court, they were interested in destroying
    the man’s reputation in the public arena, and they have done that without a trial
    ever being held. Evelyn Gordon (a woman) pointed this out in a column some
    time ago in the Jerusalem Post. She asked “why are they leaking ILLEGALLY
    all these supposed statements by witnesses” if they think they have a good case?”.
    She reached the same conclusion I stated..they DON’T have a case, they simply
    want to destroy the man. In any event, they succeeded.

    (3) Let’s say he really is a “womanizer”, which may indeed be true. How come
    Bill Clinton and JFK , who were 100 times the womanizer Katsav may be, are still
    looked on so kindly by the PC crowd, and are not demonized like Katsav? Is it because
    they are not “primitive Sefardic religious Jews” but “progressives” whose sins can be
    overlooked since they have the “correct” political views? That is simply hypocrisy.

  4. You are basing your supposed “knowledge” upon rumors spread by the media and ILLEGAL leaks from the police’s investigation.

    No, the news reports were from actual victims. They were not rumors as the stories have been authenticated by journalists I trust though you may not.

    The police, media and prosecutors were never interested in building a case that could hold up in court

    That’s ridiculous & precisely the reason I so strongly oppose Mazuz’s decision NOT to bring the case to trial. I’d rather have Katsav walk out a free man if the evidence isn’t strong enough than to have the outcome agreed to in the plea deal–in which the evidence will never be vetted properly so that neither a judge nor & the public can ever know what the police & prosecutor know.

    Evelyn Gordon

    My, my you’ll have to do better than Evelyn Gordon. I actually read something she wrote once in the Jpost & felt I needed an intellectual shower after doing so. That woman is one heckuva propagandist but not anyone I’d trust as far as I could throw her.

    Let’s say he really is a “womanizer”, which may indeed be true. How come Bill Clinton and JFK , who were 100 times the womanizer Katsav may be, are still looked on so kindly by the PC crowd

    “100 time the womanizer?” Really. Bill Clinton was never accused of rape nor was Kennedy as far as I know. Katsav was, and not by one woman alone. Further, Bill Clinton & JFK actually made political contributions to this nation though you may disapprove of them. What contribution has Katsav made to anything? He was an obscure back bench Likud apparachik before winning the presidency & he’s done nothing to make himself stand out as president except for being an accused rapist. Perhaps if Katsav had made the contributions that some other Israeli pols had made to the nation’s life you might argue he deserved a second chance (a la Haim Ramon). But Katsav was a nobody before becoming president and has gone back to being one the moment he resigned. I predict you’ll never from or about him again unless he continues along the sexual abuser trajectory he’s chosen for himself & gets himself in further hot water.

    they are not “primitive Sefardic religious Jews”

    That’s ludicrous. I have the utmost respect for Sephardic culture and religion. I don’t despise Katsav for his ethnic origin. On the contrary, if anything I would respect a pol more for being non-Ashkenazi. Those type of discriminatory attitudes are a problem that Israeli society has, but not me. Rather, I despise him for being a sexual predator.

  5. Juanita Broaderick, as you must certainly know, accused Clinton of rape and Kathleen Wiley accused him of sexual assault. Not to mention that Wiley and Lewinsky were subordinate to Clinton in the White house meaning that even if there was “consent” we’re talking about relations that should not have taken place in the first place.

    You may think the US justice system is fine and dandy, but most people know that if you are rich and have top notch lawyers, like OJ Simpson, you can get away with murder,

  6. Juanita Broaderick, as you must certainly know, accused Clinton of rape

    Actually, I’ve never heard of her. If you have a link to anything about her accusations I’d be curious to read them.

    Remember that Imjudy said that Clinton & JFK were “100 times worse” than Katsav. I hope we can agree that despite Clinton’s unpardonable treatment of women, that this characterization is wholly unsupportable.

    You may think the US justice system is fine and dandy

    Just because I criticize the Israeli justice system doesn’t by any stretch mean I think U.S. justice is anywhere near “fine & dandy.” Just look at tonight’s news about Libby. It’s a schande of first magnitude. I just hope it has hammered the final nail into the coffin of the GOP’s chances of retaining the White House in 2008.

  7. Try reading this column by Tom Segev, a progressive, in Ha’aretz. Apparently
    things aren’t as clear as you seem to think.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/877967.html

    I am still waiting for your comments about Ari Shavit’s interview with
    Amnon Rubinstein, another progressive. He believes there is a partisan
    judicial tyranny in Israel.

  8. Thanks for the link to Tom Segev, who I do indeed respect. There’s no doubt the case is complicated & there’s no doubt that justice in Israel is a relative thing and not more absolute as it is elsewhere. I will concede that it is possible the error lies more with Mazuz than I have acknowledged. I simply don’t know. But again, if Katsav himself is innocent then he shouldn’t have agreed to the plea bargain & should’ve fought the case to the end to prove his complete innocence. Of course, there are many reasons someone may cop a plea. There might be a reason for a person to cop a plea who is innocent. But in the case of a powerful person like Katsav who has access to the best attorney one could find, copping a plea is an admission of some level of guilt.

    I will try to get to the other article as soon as I can. Contrary to what you may believe I do do other things with my life than read links you provide & answer yr comments. I’m not diminishing your efforts here, but I do have other things on my life’s plate. I hope you’ll respect that.

  9. Richard-fair enough.

    Today, Haim Ramon was apointed minister and Deputy Prime Minsiter, in spite of the fact that he was convicted of a crime. Now, something doesn’t jibe here. Either what he did really wasn’t so bad, so that he should be able to continue his political career, but if that was so, then why was he convicted of a crime in the first place? And since he WAS indeed convicted of a “harrassment” crime, they why isn’t there an outcry against his appointment?

  10. Imjudy: Ramon’s apptmt. is despicable–among the many despicable things Olmert has done. It does indeed show the Israeli political system to be based on morally bankrupt individuals.

    Ben Gurion, Begin & the other founders may not have been perfect but they were a damn sight better than this vulgar lot.

  11. I read the Broaddrick entry. What can I say. Clinton was a despicable womanizer. Did he commit this alleged crime? I don’t know. What I can say is that A. at least reported Katsav’s behavior to the authorities & pursued his prosecution while Broaddrick did not. If you want to go after a politician you have to use the system to do so. If you do it so far after the fact that you can’t use the legal system to adjudicate, well, then it allows the perpetrator to get off the hook–at least legally speaking. If Broaddrick had done so & prevailed Clinton might never have become president. That would have been a shame in my opinion, but at least the people would’ve been allowed to judge for themselves whether in light of what he did to women he deserved higher office.

  12. Imjudy: I finally read the interview with Rubinstein. I’ve always found him a quirky individual. I was never sure of his precise political convictions on any particular issue. It’s great to be a maverick & not have people able to pigeonhole you. I always thought that was a great virtue in McCain till he decided he wanted to become a Republican milquetoast & lost the Straight Talk Express quality of his campaign.

    Rubinstein despite his protestations to the contrary has become basically a slightly liberal neoconservative in the sense that he has adopted Islamophobia hook line & sinker. So like McCain, Rubinstein has lost the quirky, maverick nature of his belief system & become a parody.

    It is preposterous to believe that Israel is in danger of imminent collapse or that Islam stands poised to take over the world. Those are the ideas of a hysteric. Unfortunately, extremism has driven many people in the world over the edge both on the Muslim side & in the west. And Rubinstein, alas, is one of them.

    I do agree w. him on one pt. though. The method of choice of justices for the Supreme COurt is not good. I far prefer the U.S. method in which there are hearings & the legislature votes to confirm the justices. I completely disagree with Rubinstein about his characterization of the Barak court, which I valued very highly.

  13. What I can say is that A. at least reported Katsav’s behavior to the authorities

    This isn’t entirely accurate. The scandal began because Katsav complained to Mazuz that A was trying to blackmail him.
    I don’t see much difference in the supposed behaviour of Clinton and Katsav. The public and press reaction, in my opinion, is different because Clinton is good looking and charismatic while Katsav is neither. A is very convincing in her testimony until you realize how long this was going on. While some women may not complain of sexual harrasement for fear of losing their job, others might not complain because they might feel that their sexual activities may help them advance in their career (duck). That doesn’t make sexual harrasement legitimate, but it does spread the responsbility to both persons. (I know, I know, there I go blaming the victim) The questions then becomes did the woman make it clear that the sexual encounters are unwanted. When accosted by Clinton, this question is legitimate. When accosted by Katsav, well, who would want to have sex with Katsav? (as I’ve heard so many women say).

  14. The scandal began because Katsav complained to Mazuz that A was trying to blackmail him.

    Given this, we have to add to his ugliness and lack of charisma, his stupidity. He’s screwing members of his staff right & left & turns to the AG when one of them attempts to blackmail him? What did he expect would happen? That the AG wouldn’t find out about his behavior toward his female staff? Or did he think his denials of his behavior would be believed while A’s charges wouldn’t? Obviously, he was so oblivious to the offensiveness of his own behavior he didn’t think his screwing around would be seen by others as it was. That’s a hallmark of sex abusers. Who me? What am I doing wrong? The women want it, etc., etc.

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