16 thoughts on “Peace Now Reports 40% of West Bank Settlement Land Owned by Palestinians – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
task-attention.png
Comments are published at the sole discretion of the owner.
 

  1. They don’t own anything after making war against Israel.

    1) There has never been an Arab Palestinian State.
    2) The land was used as a platform to launch a genocide military attack against Israel which failed.
    3) Back in 19677 Israel made military history as the first country attacked by an aggressor nation and successfully defending it to offer to return strategic lands captured in the war in exchange for nothing but a promise of peace.
    4) The Arabs refused peace.
    5) Land captured in defensive war is the legitimate asset of the country defending itself.
    6) Israel did not want to drive the Arab’s out of Judea / Samara and Gush Katif and so she did not annex the land.
    6) The PLO still defined “Palestine” without including Judea / Samara and Gush Katif until 1968.
    7) Palestinians support the destruction of Israel.

    No, it does not matter who is on the papers. According to international law, due to the fact the lands were captured in self-defence against sovereign nations it is Israel’s choice if they claim this land or not. It is 100% up to Israel. For this same reason; Syria has no legitimate claim to the Golan.

  2. Who is “they”? Are you saying every owner of every parcel of land in this report were active members of armed wings of the PLO, Hamas, etc? Do you have documentation to prove this?

    Or are you implying that simply being born Palestinian is guilt by association? So then is every Orthodox Jew equally culpable in the assasination of Yitzhak Rabin? Is every German responsible for the horros of the Nazi’s? Is every American responsible for the genocide of the Native Americans, and so on?

    And if Golon, why not the Sinai? Israel must have been foolish to return territory to Egypt that it had no legitimate claim to.

    International law is clear – if Israel wants to make a claim to annex those territories – why hasn’t it done so? And if so – those “Palestinians” therefor should be consideried “Israeli Arabs” with full citizenship rights. “According to international law” you can’t have your cake and eait it too..

  3. Dan, the land was Jordanian territory before the war. Since Jordan lost (and I doubt they want it back) the land now belongs to Israel. The reason Israel doesn’t annex it is because they are scared of world opinion which employs a double standard to Israel in all the wars against her. I’m still not sure why peaceniks like Richard here believe that if we go back to the pre-67 borders there will be peace. There was no peace pre-67 either when the West Bank belonged to Jordan and Gaza belonged to Egypt.

  4. You are at best an ideologue & at worst an outright liar:

    1) There has never been an Arab Palestinian State.

    Bullshit. But dream on bird brain. If you really work hard you might persuade 3 or 4 other people in the world that this is a “true” statement.

    2) The land was used as a platform to launch a genocide military attack against Israel which failed.

    Oh, I see. And which “genocidal military attack” would that be? The term “genocide” is factually inaccurate & part & parcel of the pro-Israel demagogue’s lurid, histrionic vocabulary which prevents serious dialogue by making the enemy into homicidal anti-Semites. An entirely bogus term in this case.

    3) Back in 19677 Israel made military history as the first country attacked by an aggresor [sic] nation and successfully defending it to offer to return strategic lands captured in the war in exchange for nothing but a promise of peace.

    More bullshit. Egypt closed the Strait of Tiran & Israel responded by unleashing the full power of all its military forces in an all out assault on multiple Arab nations. So who shot the first bullet?? The alleged “aggressor” or Israel?

    4) The Arabs refused peace.

    In 1967 yes they did. But as early as 1972 Sadat made written overtures to Israel that he was willing to sue for peace. His overture was ignored by ISRAEL. It was not till 1979 that his offer was realized. So that would make this another lie.

    5) Land captured in defensive war is the legitimate asset of the country defending itself.

    First, not a defensive war. Second, provide a source that this patently bogus claim is true.

    6) Israel did not want to drive the Arab’s out of Judea / Samara and Gush Katif and so she did not annex the land.

    Israel has driven hundreds of thousands of Palestinians off their legally established land. It has not yet annexed those lands because no other nation except Israel would recognize the annexation & the world would scorn this further power/land grab.

    6) The PLO still defined “Palestine” without including Judea / Samara and Gush Katif until 1968.

    I don’t trust anything you say till you authenticate a source. And even if you provided one, which would be doubtful that you could, it makes not a whit of difference what anyone believed in 1968. What matters is here & now.

    7) Palestinians support the destruction of Israel.

    60% of Palestinians in legitimate opinion surveys are in favor of negotiations with Israel and recognizing it if it returns to pre-67 borders. So that would make this even more bullshit.

  5. “Bullshit. But dream on bird brain.”

    I have seen time and again how you complain about a lack of civility by commenters, but you show you are the worst culprit.

    By the way, you never disproved the statement “There has never been an Arab Palestinian State.” I am all ears.

  6. Polly: When people publish hate here whether it’s directed against me, Israelis or Palestinians, then the gloves are off. If you or whoever publishes such crap doesn’t like it you can go elsewhere.

    Regarding the canard that there is no Arab Palestinian state: I don’t need to prove the obvious. There is no credible proof for this contention & the only individuals who maintain this are living in cloud cuckoo land somewhere above the oxygen line. Those of us living here on earth with sufficient oxygen getting to our brains, know better.

  7. Polly said,

    By the way, you never disproved the statement “There has never been an Arab Palestinian State.” I am all ears.

    I have never seen anyone who uses the above, as some sort of devastating fact, explain why it makes any difference? whether people choose to align themselves with a local nationalism, pan-Arab nationalism, Islamism, even Zionism or communism, natives irrespective of their faith or even no faith, do not lose their rights, individual or collective as a people, to continue to live and prosper in their own land and country.It is a claim that is thrown around along with the thoroughly debunked disingenuous drivel about the land being empty and baron. It is nothing more than a sad attempt to make a people become invisible and part of a greater dehumanising mantra that is abhorrent and immoral in its aims, to depreciate the value of a particular collection of people to excuse what is being done to them.

  8. War is hell, isn’t it? Guess what, you start a war and lose, you lose land. Simple as that.

    Yes, for the ultra-uber-Israel crowd so many things are “as simple as that.” That’s why Israel is so woefully out of touch with reality and continually butts its head up against that grim reality called Lebanon or Gaza. Neither you nor the Israeli government ever learn fr. experience & continue making the same mistakes over & over which of course lead to tremendous loss of life for both Israelis & Palestinians.

    No, it is NOT as simple as that. It’s not simple at all. If it were that simple then Israel’s occupation of this “lost land” would be recognized by the world & it isn’t. The Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories did not start a war. The Jordanian king started this war which they had nothing to do with. Jordan has now renounced its claim to this land anyway. So blaming Palestinians for attacking Israel in 1967 is ridiculous.

    And let’s just throw out a hypothetical. Let’s say the Egyptians in 67 had not lost their air force and had actually vanquished the IDF in the Sinai. Let’s say they conquered a broad swath of the Negev. Would loss of such vital Israel land be “as simple as that?” After all, regardless of what precipitated the war (& there was some Arab provocation), Israel actually started the 67 war by destroying the Egyptian air force. By losing, would it have forfeited its right to get the territory back? Of course not.

  9. Since Jordan lost (and I doubt they want it back) the land now belongs to Israel. The reason Israel doesn’t annex it is because they are scared of world opinion

    David is a little history-challenged it appears. Jordan formally renounced its claim to the Territories and signed it over to the PLO when Arafat ran the show. So all nations in the world minus Israel now view the Territories as occupied land that is the Palestinians’ by right.

    Dan is of course precisely right in asking–if Israel’s claim to the land is as ironclad as you claim then why has it not annexed it? If possession or conquest are the sole determinant of ownership then it should be a no-brainer to declare the land Israel’s by law and by right. There is an excellent reason why it has not done so. What would it do with the millions of Palestinians living there? Deport them? Absorb them into Israel & make them citizens? Continue to subjugate them as they have done under Occupation, while no longer having any justification for doing so? Besides, unless you expelled these Palestinians they would come very close to making Israel a majority Arab country which would be anathema to almost every Israeli Jew.

    It’s not quite as simple as you zealots make it out to be.

  10. “When people publish hate here whether it’s directed against me, Israelis or Palestinians, then the gloves are off. If you or whoever publishes such crap doesn’t like it you can go elsewhere.”

    And you define hate as something that doesn’t conform to your (misguided) world view? Steven did not post one hateful comment. He merely presented what he (and I and many others) considers the facts. Did he say he hates Arabs? Of course not. And by not responding to his contention that “there is no Arab Palestinian state,” you show that you are really not interested in civil discourse, as you claim.

    There is no credible proof that a palestinian state ever existed. But feel free to continue your existence in “cloud cuckoo land.”

  11. Saying there is no such thing as a Palestinian nation is offensive beside being patently false. Besides, it is racist in precisely the same way as anti-Zionists who attempt to argue that the Jews have no right to a homeland in Israel.

    I don’t stand down when racism rears its ugly head here. I’ve given hell to Arab haters here AND Jewish haters. That’s what they deserve. You can be critical of Hamas and the Palestinians in ways that show them respect as well. Many people who comment here do.

    Regarding my choice of language. All I can say is that I react to comments according to the way I read their content and tone. If someone disagrees with me but asks me without vitriol to explain myself I reply in kind. If someone shows harsh disdain for the Israeli or Palestinian side or for me–well, then that person doesn’t deserve much consideration. ‘Bullshit’ was a strong term to use in that context. I could’ve used a less vivid term. But that’s how the comment made me feel. Angry. And that’s how I replied. You show disdain for my views but seem to express yourself without dripping in sarcasm as some here do. That’s why I’ve tired to reply to you in the same manner as you’ve written to me.

    People who have an ideological ax to grind on both the far left and far right forget that real people are dying here. Their deaths cause me great pain. I don’t suffer fools gladly under these conditions. And yes, I sometimes raise my voice. It is the fools who perpetuate the suffering on both sides who make my blood boil. They urge the extremists & rejectionists to fight valiantly on despite the fact that the ordinary people on both sides are sick & tired to the fighting & want to be left alone and in peace. We need peace a lot more than we need clever “arguments” like “there never was a Palestinian nation.”

    Did he say he hates Arabs? Of course not.

    Pls. do not make me laugh. He doesn’t hate Arabs? You’ve got to be joking. No, I’m sure he loves Arabs. They’re some of his best friends. He even dated an Arab girl once probably. But wouldn’t take her home to meet Mom no doubt. Sorry for the sarcasm, but so many commenters here hate Arabs that I know an Arab hater when I see one. He is one. You can dress up his views however you want. But you can’t turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse.

    There is no credible proof that a palestinian state ever existed.

    As Big Brother Soul pointed out, even if this were true (which it is not), it doesn’t matter a whit to the current political situation.

    And riddle me this: if there was no Palestinian nation why couldn’t an anti-Zionist argue that there was no Israeli nation until modern Zionism came along. You can argue that there is a historic millennial bond between the Jewish people and Israel (& I do). But there was no tradition aspiring to creating a political state for Jews till Herzl came along.

    If an anti-Zionist argued this I’d say–so what? What does it matter? There IS an Israeli nation now so deal with it. And I say the same to you & the other commenter you so devoutly defend. Just deal with it. If you don’t you’ll be consigned to the dustbin of intellectual/political history where you belong.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *