Haaretz reports that Hezbollah rockets continue to fall in the north:
Meanwhile, rockets continued to rain down on cities and towns in the north of the country Sunday. Two men were killed, in Haifa and Kiryat Ata, and more than 90 were injured in about 90 rocket attacks. Three of the injured were in serious condition, 28 were moderately or slightly injured and the remainder were suffering from shock.
More than 30 rockets fell Sunday in Haifa, where nine warning sirens were sounded during the day. Thirteen rockets hit the city and its environs during the first attack, in which the two men were killed.
The dead men were Habib Awad, 48, of Ibalin, who was working in a carpentry workshop in the Kiryat Ata industrial zone when it was hit a rocket and Shimon Glikblich, 60, of Haifa, was driving on a main street when the rocket struck the hillside and ricocheted onto his car.
The NY Times reports that 37 Israelis (soldiers and civilians) have died along with 380 Lebanese. Why is this blood that is worth shedding? What value is gained by either side through these deaths?
I note that the Haaretz site until today has run a headline covering every Israeli death. Today’s deaths didn’t merit a headline and weren’t even mentioned in the article till near the end. Is Israel becoming inured to the deaths as Americans have been regarding death of U.S. military personnel in Iraq? If so, it is a shame. I believe the Lebanese should be forced to see pictures of every dead Israeli civilian and Israelis should be made to view the pictures of every dead Lebanese civilian. They should look at the disfigured bodies, the gaping shrapnel wounds. They should see what they are wreaking on the “enemy.” And if anyone refuses, they should force their eyes open with clothes pins like in A Clockwork Orange. It might end the war that much quicker. I have viewed such images and they sicken me with horror. I will spare you even a link to them because they’re like watching a train wreck. But they’re out there and easy to find on the web.
The IDF is searching in the Tyre area for the rocketeers whose skills are driving Haifa to distraction. The search doesn’t seem to be working. So now Israel is committing more ground troops to turn this into a full-scale invasion. Do they think more troops will end the rocket fire? Not likely and even if it does, this would only be a temporary palliative. An Israeli-American who I grew up with wrote to me that Israel is not invading Lebanon. Amazing the level of denial among some Israelis.
The IDF also invaded Gaza a few weeks ago for a similar purpose–to find and eliminate Qassam rocket launches and the cells operating them. But Qassams continue to fall in the south. How in heavens name can the IDF put even a dent into such launchings in the north? The area is larger, the terrain far more favorable to hiding both the rockets and the personnel. It just won’t work. But the only way to confirm this will be waiting till enough Israeli blood is shed. At that point, the nation will rise up to demand an end to it–if the international community and NATO don’t get there first.
Last week, Gush Shalom brought 100 people to a demonstration against the war in Lebanon. Yesterday, 2,500 came to a demonstration in Tel Aviv. Next week I hope 10,000 come. And the following 25,000. And so on until we end the war. Do it now!
I’m sure you’ve heard this before but it bears repeating. If people of your ilk were making the decisions then the Nazis never would have been defeated. We all strive for peace but at what cost. The Pashington Post collumnist Richard Cohen wrote last week that Israel should just “hunker down” and defend herself. That sort of advice is so absurd that it is unclear how a supposedly educated individual could utter those words.
I understand your philisophical desire for peace at all costs. I would hope you would understand that such fool hearted opinions are best left in the classroom. In the real world that sore of naievite doesn’t fly.
The situation is really strange. I am not optimastic that peace can come one day. Since in two sides, the ideas are completetly different. Isreal only consider itself and for him other people aren’t important. Isreal think if he continue attacking on Hezbollah and Hamas, they will be eleminated. But it is impossible, because they are the voice of discriminated people who don’t have anything to lose.
However, I really hope we can see peace in middle east.
Jacob Vogel says
I cant believe what Im hearing. If anything the Jewish people need untiy and solidarity in this time of crises. War is hell, and we all know that by now, but we also know that sometimes war is necessary. The katyushas will not stop falling no matter if Israel is in Lebanon or not so we may as well take our chances and suffer military casualties rather than civilian casualties. And as far as civilians dying in Lebanon, if the Hezbollah worked out of military bases instead of basements in residential neighborhoods then the only ones dying would be the thugs who have been terrorizing Israel for decades. If the Lebanese people want safety and security they will condemn Hezbollah and start acting like a sovereign nation.
Richard Silverstein says
Kevin: Yr comment is full of crap I don’t know where to begin so I’ll just lv. it at that. So much more important things to write about with the Mideast going up in flames. Your drivel is the lowest of priorities.
Richard Silverstein says
You’re ignoring the 20 Israeli civilian deaths in this conflict. I don’t think the families of the survivors would appreciate yr ignoring their sacrifice for an unnecessary cause.
And anyone who engages in sophistry & casuistry in order to diminish the deaths of over 300 Lebanese civilians has lost any credibility (if he ever had any). God says to the celebrating angels when the Egyptians are drowning in the Red Sea: “My creatures are dying and you rejoice?!” You’re satisfied with Lebanese civilian deaths as falling within an acceptable moral spectrum. But God says otherwise. He asks you to have some small bit of sympathy which you seem incapable of mustering. God values their lives even if you don’t.
The Lebanese people CANNOT act like a sovereign nation because Israel has just destroyed almost every vestige of Lebanese infrastructure & sovereignty in the past 2 weeks.
Jacob Vogel says
Richard, nice website btw. But maybe you should use it to preach truth rather than defend the people who want you dead.
“You’re ignoring the 20 Israeli civilian deaths in this conflict. I don’t think the families of the survivors would appreciate yr ignoring their sacrifice for an unnecessary cause.”
Im not ignoring anything, however I do understand the motives of my enemy, and so do the families of those who have died. Israel was attacked unprovoked, judging by your statements, you obviously arnt living in Northern Israel where the threat of Hezbollah blowing off your rooftop is constantly eminent.
“You’re satisfied with Lebanese civilian deaths as falling within an acceptable moral spectrum.”
Again, I havent said that either. What I said was that it is because of the actions of Hezbollah that the people are being killed. What I meant by that [in case you didnt understand] was that Israel has been showing tremendous restraint for the past SIX YEARS! Now that Israel has no other choice but to go on the offensive they are doing everything they can to minimize the number of civilian casualties by warning the civilians to flee Hezbollah strongholds. This strategy not only is giving fair warning to civilians but the enemy amongst them as well, yet Israel does it anyways due to their humane & responsible nature, something you couldnt categorize the terrorists by given any stretch of the imagination.
“The Lebanese people CANNOT act like a sovereign nation because Israel has just destroyed almost every vestige of Lebanese infrastructure & sovereignty in the past 2 weeks.”
They can start by not electing a terrorist militia into government whose clear intentions are to wipe a peaceful nation of the face of the Earth.
Richard Silverstein says
You wrote: “we may as well take our chances and suffer military casualties rather than civilian casualties” That IS ignoring or omitting civilian casualties.
No, you don’t. You understand your own version of what their motives are. Hezbollah is just like you in reverse. They “understand” the motives of Israelis too. But their interpretation of what those motives are–is fatally flawed.
This is wrong. So much of the pro-Israel version of this war simply ignores the context of attacks against Israel. I’m not saying I justify Hezbollah’s attack. There is nothing I like about Hezbollah. But there has been huge tension in the north for months, if not years. Not the least part of that tension is Israel’s retention of the Shaaba Farms area. This is a HUGE issue of nation honor for Lebanon. Until it is resolved, there will never be full peace on the border.
No, it is because of ISRAEL’S actions that civilians are being killed. Hezbollah attacked the IDF, not the people of Lebanon. There is ABSOLUTELY NO justification for demolishing a huge chunk of the entire country for acts committed by a single group in a small part of the country.
“Restraint?” What restraint? Are we living on the same planet? I have no idea what you’re talking about.
This is patently & laughably false. Read my most recent post if you really believe what you just wrote. The post features a NY Times profile of several civilian families attacked lethally on the road to Tyre to which they were trying to escape. Israel has in these cases DELIBERATELY targeted vehicles it knows are civilian ones killing scores of civilians who are trying to follow the IDF’s expulsion orders & fleeing their homes in the south. They become targets of opportunity for the IAF and then casualties of war. And the IDF doesn’t give 2 shits about them. They may be civilians, but they’re as good as Hezbollah as far as the IDF is concerned. The IDF’s unwillingness to distinguish between guerrilla fighters and civilians in south Lebanon is a war crime in the making.
You are certainly living in some alternate universe I’m not familiar with. The 384 Lebanese dead also weren’t familiar with that universe either.
You have heard the term “democracy” haven’t you? The Lebanese voted Hezbollah into government. You don’t get the right to tell the Lebanese who they can & cannot vote for. You get to do that in your own country, but not in another country. The fact that you & the Israeli government do not accept the decision of the Lebanese people as to who represents them merely shows terrific insolence of the sort that plagues George Bush in Iraq.
Neither you nor I would’ve voted for Hezbollah were we citizens of Lebanon. But we’re not. Should the citizens of Israel make Avigdor Lieberman prime minister some day (God help me I hope it doesn’t happen), it would make my stomach turn. But I would accept the vote as a legitimate democratic expression of a sovereign people. Why can’t you accept Lebanon’s decision as well?
Jacob Vogel says
Well at least I know where you get your skewed information from. The New York Times is the single most left leaning crap in the press (maybe besides BBC). Who the hell are you to tell me that Israel is hitting buses full of people trying to leave Beirut, did you see it? I recently saw a headline on cnn.com that read ‘Israeli jets target minibus of civilians fleeing southern lebanon’. While you were probably jumping on this website to condemn your brothers and sisters I was seeking the truth. Sure enough 30 minutes later it was confirmed on both the right wing websites as well as the leftist propoganda portals that the ‘minibus of civilians’ were infact Hezbollah thugs fleeing a katyusha launching site. I bring this up because after much debate its clear that your negative view on the Jewish State is not really YOUR opinion rather the opinion of a few bitter elitist liberals who will do anything in their power to undermine the foreign policy of the current U.S. administration. Israel IS peaceful, they WERE attacked unprovoked. If Lebanon wanted the farms they wouldnt have signed UN resolution 425 which clearly states that the Shebba Farms are not part of Lebanese territory – stop being such a pacifist!
And enough with that crap about Hezbollah being elected… that doesnt give them the right to kidnap another nations soldiers UNPROVOKED! Whether you can handle it or not, the Lebanese are at fault here, they act as an accesory to the thugs and they’ve given them the power they need to terrorize northern Israel. Hopefully they will learn that putting radical groups such as Hezbollah in military power as well as giving them a veto on any bill introduced to parliament will only endanger them as civilians due to these groups’ stated disregard for human life.
Ever since you’ve exposed yourself for the liberal, marxist neo-nazi that you sound like, this debate has just gotten petty, but if you have anything intelligent to bring to the table, please do. I would be happy to take apart your outdated hippie philosophy of the world.
Excellent post Jacob. I loved the part where you exposed Silversteins comments about firing on the mini-bus. To say that the Israeli’s deliberately target civilians is the ultimate in false propaganda and blind hatred for the state of Israel.
As for Mr. Silverstein you are the ultimate shander to your supposed people. You are a JINO that appears to have sold your soul to the cause of liberalism and anti Israel activism. Please know that you have exposed yourself for what you really are.
Richard Silverstein says
Ah, a real empiricist we have here. Tell me, do you believe that the Israelites escaped Egypt through the Red Sea lo these many years ago? I do & I bet you do too. But neither of us saw it. That must mean it didn’t happen.
A respected journalist writing for one of the most respected publications in the world (respected by everyone except you who of course has far superior journalistic skills and experience) witnessed the incident. I’ve not heard you or any other pro-Israel supporter supply any evidence whatsoever that the incident either didn’t happen or didn’t happen as the reporter said it did. Till you provide that anything you say on this score is immediately not credible.
And as for yr charges about CNN’s alleged misinformation: you provide absolutely no links to verify anything you say & w/o them I’m afraid you’re about as credible as a three card monte dealer (which is to say, not credible at all).
Load ‘o crap, Jacob & you’re about an inch fr. being banned here. I do NOT have a negative view of the Jewish state. I am a progressive Zionist you dolt. I don’t support the policies of the State of Israel regarding its Arab neighbors. That’s different than my views of the “Jewish state.” Propagandists like you don’t understand the nuance. That’s because your rationality (if you have any) seems to stop at the water’s edge when it comes to Israel. Call me an Israel-hater or even imply it & you’ll be gone fr. this site.
We so-called “elitist liberals” don’t have to do anything to “undermine the foreign policy of this Administration.” It does such a good job of that itself. We have only but to stand back & watch as it makes a mess of its policy throughout the world–now including in Lebanon.
Tell it to the Marines, bud. It doesn’t persuade me. Doesn’t persuade any of my readers except Christian evangelicals like Kevin. Don’t you think you’re wasting your time & it would be better spent at Little Green Footballs where you’ll speak to the choir of the like-minded??
Prove it. Quote the document where it says that. You’re such a bullshitter! Lebanon might be willing to give up its claim on the Farms, but only in favor of Syria which has historically controlled the territory. But NEVER to Israel.
And it doesn’t give Israel the right to kidnap Palestinian civilians on Palestinian territory either. When Israel stops doing that then it (& you) can posture about Hezbollah kidnapping Israeli soldiers.
Richard Silverstein says
Don’t you just love Christian fundamentalist who try to outJew the Jews? That’s SHANDE, you moron. Learn some Yiddish before you try to pretend you’re such a good friend of the Jewish people.
Well we sure have a sore loser here…now dont we!
Richard Silverstein says
The only one who’s lost here are the poor Lebanese civilians slaughtered by Israel missiles and Israeli civilians blown up by Katyushas. The drivel spouted by people like Jacob, Kevin & you don’t constitute “winning.” You haven’t proven anything except your own ignornace.