16 thoughts on “Seattle Jewish Federation Shooting: Naming the Dead – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Since I work for a Jewish federation, I’m freaking out about this whole thing. I’m also really upset by how it’s already being seized upon by the seedier side of the blogosphere (and elsewhere) to justify this political position or that (if I hear the word “islamofascism” one more time I’m gonna yak)

    Funny how each effort to use violence to make us safer seems to have the opposite effect…

  2. O.K., some definitions:

    Fascism: “Fascism, especially in its early stages, is obliged to be antitheoretical and frankly opportunistic in order to appeal to many diverse groups. Nevertheless, a few key concepts are basic to it. First and most important is the glorification of the state and the total subordination of the individual to it. The state is defined as an organic whole into which individuals must be absorbed for their own and the state’s benefit. This “total state” is absolute in its methods and unlimited by law in its control and direction of its citizens.”

    Jihad: Literally means “striving in the way of God.” It can mean a lot of things, including the inner struggle to be a better person.

    But yeah, if people want to keep tossing around “islamofascism”, “jihad”, etc. (oh, and my favorite today on the other side: “Jewish fascism”, bring me a bucket!!!

  3. address the aptness of the terms.

    He already did. What was it about his comment you didn’t understand? Both terms are wholly inapt. Well, ‘Islamofacist’ is wholly inapt because the Islamic fundamentalism the right is decrying has no connection whatsoever to a state or government–in fact it detests most existing Arab states; while ‘jihadist’ is inapt in the sense that the right never acknowledges the other more positive meanings of the word in Arabic.

  4. the Islamic fundamentalism the right is decrying has no connection whatsoever to a state or government

    The major goal of Islamist groups is to bring about Islamist governments.
    They have succeeded already in Iran. They succeeded in pre-war Afghanistan.
    They have taken major steps, at least, towards succeeding
    in the PA. (And the party that lost to the Islamists includes a “martyrs brigade.”)
    How well or badly does the term “fascist” describe Iran?

    ‘jihadist’ is inapt in the sense that the right never acknowledges the other more positive meanings of the word in Arabic.

    Is that called for when discussing groups such as Islamic Jihad or Laskar Jihad and people who adopt a similar ideology?

  5. The major goal of Islamist groups is to bring about Islamist governments.

    We can argue semantics till the cows come home but it won’t clarify matters much. Hezbollah is currently being called ‘Islamofascists’ & they have not created such an Islamic state. They are members of a democratic goverment, democratically elected. Unless of course you’d like to call those participating in such a government facists. But then of course the other side could call democratically elected Israeli right wingers like Avigdor Lieberman fascists.

    They have taken major steps, at least, towards succeeding in the PA

    What a load of horse crap. Prove it.

    Regarding the term ‘jihadist,’ it is the practice of propagandists like LGF & other pro-Israel partisans not to make distinctions that might weaken their argument. So yes, their use of the term is misleading & deliberately so. Whenever my own arguments can be attenuated by conflicting realities I try to acknowledge this. Not so most of the ideologues on the other side of this argument.

  6. Hezbollah is currently being called ‘Islamofascists’ & they have not created such an Islamic state.

    They are an Islamist Shi’ite party in a country where Shi’ites are a minority. The question is what sort of ideology they represent and that idoeology’s concept of how to organize a state. Are we agreed up to that point? If Hizbullah could have any kind of government it wanted, would the rulers be clerics? Would it be legal to criticize them?

    They have taken major steps, at least, towards succeeding in the PA What a load of horse crap. Prove it.

    Prove that Hamas won an election and that it is now the official government of the PA in some sense? That is what I meant by “major steps.” Do you want me to prove that Hamas is an Islamist group? Do you want me to prove that Islamist groups advocate totalitarian theocracy? Let’s be very clear on where we disagree.

  7. If Hizbullah could have any kind of government it wanted, would the rulers be clerics? Would it be legal to criticize them?

    Now we’re engaging in hypotheticals. Hezbollah does not control any government. I don’t know what type of government it would like to organize if it could do so. But I do know that the remainder of the country would be adamantly, even violently opposed to a Shiite Islamist government for Lebanon. There would prob. be another civil war against the notion. So Hezbollah would be hindered from realizing whatever wishes it might have to do what you believe it wants to do. Hezbollah has proven itself to be quite pragmatic in political terms & I’m certain realizes that it cannot realize such ambitions IF it has them.

    Prove that Hamas won an election and that it is now the official government of the PA in some sense? That is what I meant by “major steps.”

    No, you were claiming that Hamas has taken “major steps” toward realizing a radical Islamist government. That is patently false. It was democratically elected and eventually it will be democratically unelected if the opposition can ever get it’s s(^t together & stop its corruption long enough to win an election. Hamas has not imposed or attempted to impose such an Islamist state in Palestine. We can all try to look into people’s minds & try to read what their intent might be if they had their way. But the pt. is that in a democracy with a strong opposition, the ruling majority doesn’t get to realize its full goals. It has to compromise & Hamas has shown an ability & willingness to do so w. Fatah.

    You are being terribly alarmist.

  8. Now we’re engaging in hypotheticals. Hezbollah does not control any government. I don’t know what type of government it would like to organize if it could do so. But I do know that the remainder of the country would be adamantly, even violently opposed to a Shiite Islamist government for Lebanon. There would prob. be another civil war against the notion.

    It isn’t hypothetical. Hizbullah has already achieved sub-statehood. A civil war might be a favorable development
    for them.

    No, you were claiming that Hamas has taken “major steps” toward realizing a radical Islamist government. That is patently false.

    Why? They are radical Islamists and they are officially the government. That sounds like a radical islamist government to me. They have to deal with rivals who are not so keen on giving up power, but a brute struggle for power does not equal democratic checks and balances.

    We can all try to look into people’s minds & try to read what their intent might be if they had their way. But the pt. is that in a democracy with a strong opposition, the ruling majority doesn’t get to realize its full goals. It has to compromise & Hamas has shown an ability & willingness to do so w. Fatah.

    It is not a question of reading minds. These groups have a public ideology. Their leaders make statements. They exhibit despotism and have despotic allies. And who says Fatah is a force for democracy? We could adopt, if you like,
    a project for both of our blogs. Pick Hizbullah or Hamas and we’ll do an extended close-up examination of what sort of ideology and goals we are dealing with.

  9. They are radical Islamists and they are officially the government. That sounds like a radical islamist government to me.

    Not at all. They are only a radical Islamist government if they enact laws and adhere to a political agenda that represents a radical Islamist government. Do you really think Al Qaeda or any true Islamic radicals would be happy with the government Hamas has formed? Besides, Hamas will shortly enter into a unity government with Fatah in which it will be forced to share power with a secular party which finds Hamas’ theocratic views anathema. Does this sound like a radical Islamist party about to impose its will on all of Palestinian society? Hardly.

    Regarding Hamas & Fatah’s ideology…I didn’t say I like what they represent. We’d both love a nice social democratic party to arise in Palestine which would govern responsibly & competently. That simply ain’t gonna happen any time soon for reasons too numerous to go into here. We’ve got to deal with the political cards we’re dealt & not with the hand we wish we’d been dealt. Hamas was elected to lead for the time being. They’re the hand we’ve been dealt. Deal with it.

  10. From what I’ve read here, Ms Waechter would have been horrified to hear her death would be the cause for a heated semantic debate between Jews over the appropriate term for those who set out to embroil the world in conflict…

    She sounds like a wonderful human being and one that I would be have been lucky to get to know. Before I read the article this morning, I knew a person was killed in Seattle. Now I know of a wonderful human being who sounds very much like people many people I know and love.

    This was an tragedy born by so many wrongs in our world. A deeply disturbed individual in a society that treats not only the mental ill with comtempt, but gives very little value to those who strive to help them (my wife is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker).

    Until we repair the world – so many tragedies – so much loss and pain and suffering…

  11. I don’t want to be vindictive toward’s the suspect’s family or community; I want to believe that they are sincerely shaken to the core over this incident, had no part in influencing the outcome, and sincerely believe it’s contrary to what they hold sacred.

    His previous charge of lewd behavior and history of mental disorders does give solid creedence to the idea that it wasn’t out of “religious” or political conviction that led him to commit murder – the “murder” charge of course pending the outcome of the trial or plea bargain.

    However, a question which I believe warrants investigation is WHY events turned this way.

    There is unfortunately no shortage of people with serious mental disorders. Without statistics to cite, it’s reasonable to assume that the majority are not violent. It’s quite one thing for someone lacking the proper psychological bearings to be a functional person to develop delusions and illusions of all kinds such as UFOs listening in on phone calls (especially when Dept of Homeland Security is much more efficient at that).

    However, it’s another thing in its entirety to accept absorb the stock and trade propaganda of hatemongers and take it to it’s lethal extreme.

    Are we compelled for moral or inter-communal peace reasons to accept face value that it was all created in a vacuum and that in no way shape or form was this a product of his environment? Is maintaining what I define as a dose of healthy skepticism towards all the condemnations (until sincerity is displayed beyond a reasonable doubt) a negative or counterproductive approach if it serves as a preventive measure to furture incidents of this type, Heaven Forbid?

  12. Are we compelled for moral or inter-communal peace reasons to accept face value that it was all created in a vacuum and that in no way shape or form was this a product of his environment? Is maintaining what I define as a dose of healthy skepticism towards all the condemnations (until sincerity is displayed beyond a reasonable doubt) a negative or counterproductive approach

    My wife just told me about a Seattle PI story (which I haven’t yet read) which describes Haq’s mother begging him not to make this trip to Seattle. She says she “had a bad feeling” about what might happen. But she could not persuade him not to go & of course she had no idea what he was planning.

    I think when you’re dealing w. severe mental illness (as this individual seems to face) looking for root causes in his environment is problematic. The mentally ill take their cues from many different sources not all of which are their parental upbringing.

    Of course to an extent the Muslim community’s response is self-serving. They want to protect themselves fr. a backlash so they express concern. But I have no doubt that many, many Muslims are genuinely aghast at this and feel genuine sorrow for what’s happened. I’d like to think that despite our religious/political differences that we can have enough fellow feeling for ea. other to experience sincere emotions of regret & revulsion.

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