Every day seems to bring yet a new outrage against free speech and democratic rights in Israel. Yesterday, the Israeli police manhandled the director of Women of the Wall, wrested a sacred Torah scroll from her hands, and hauled her off to jail–all for praying. Today, it only took 34 of the 120 member of the Knesset who actually had the guts to strip Israeli Palestinian MK Haneen Zoabi of her parliamentary privileges–all because she represented her constituents faithfully and joined the Gaza flotilla. The greatest shame perhaps is that only 16 Knesset members opposed this anti-democratic abortion.
What is interesting about all this is that Zoabi broke no Israeli law in doing so (she might have had the flotilla reached Gaza). So in effect, the Knesset minority basically said you did something offensive and we will punish you for it. This usurps the legal process by which the police and attorney general would do their job and ferret out illegality and prosecute it. It is an entirely arbitrary and capricious act and I hope she will appeal it to the Supreme Court, a body which at times has been known to get off its duff and protect the rights of Israel’s largest ethnic minority.
It should also be noted that MK Zoabi had the honor of a Facebook group created which wished her good health in the form of demanding she be hung from the highest tree for her ‘betrayal’ of the State. This indicates the robust good health of Israeli democracy.
Knesset speaker Reuven Rivlin is on record opposing the measure which passed, which is a tribute to his sense of the dignity of the Knesset. However, he is wrong when he warns the right wing Knesset members that once they strip Zoabi, that their privileges and immunity too could be stripped. He’s wrong because no Israeli Knesset would ever strip a right-wing member of immunity. The right-wing essentially owns the Knesset and they can act with virtual impunity barring an act of Kahane-Goldstein like mass mayhem.
I have often written here that Israel, instead of a democracy, is a national security state which accords Jews superior rights and Palestinian citizens rights at its discretion. When it is inconvenient to the State, the rights of the Arab minority are curtailed at will.
The last MK whose immunity was stripped was Azmi Bishara, who was driven into forced exile by the Shin Bet. Who knows what the rightist MKs have in store for Zoabi next? There is a campaign to strip her of citizenship entirely and leave her stateless like hundreds of thousands of Israeli Palestinian refugees from 1948. Wouldn’t that be an irony worth noting? If I were her I would dare them to do so. It will only harm Israel’s image and burnish Zoabi’s.
I’ve got news for any advocate for Israel as a Jewish supremacist state out there: “they” have as much right to be there as you (or we Jews, if you prefer) do. They’re not going away. You can only deprive them of their rights so long.
Richard wrote: “I’ve got news for any advocate for Israel as a Jewish supremacist state out there: “they” have as much right to be there as you (or we Jews, if you prefer) do. They’re not going away. You can only deprive them of their rights so long.”
Well said! People will not tolerate oppression forever.
as always you are fabricating facts.
Just FYI in 1984, 26 years ago, the Israeli knesset revoked the immunity of one of its members.
this member was Meir Kahane, and he wasn’t a member of the “Avoda” party.
can’t you verify your information and assumptions prior to posting?
Usually when you debate someone you attempt to point out the specifics of what you’re attacking. I have no idea what facts you’re claiming I’m fabricating since you don’t specify.
But if you’re claiming that the Knesset revokes the immunity of Jewish members & all you can list is one in 1984, that’s rather the exception that proves the rule I think.
if you want to prove anything, you should check how many times the knesset revoked an immunity and on what grounds.
stating “He’s wrong because no Israeli Knesset would ever strip a right-wing member of immunity. ” is simply not true.
Your posts, are full with half truths and your interpretation of those half truths which has no other purpose than attacking / demonizing the state of Israel. what you don’t know you simply make up.
i wounder why ?
and furthermore, during the 16 Knesset (the 18 serves at the moment) the immunity of 3 members was revoked.
Neomi Blumenthal, Yechiel Chazan, and Yair Peretz.
Both Blumenthal and Chazan were members of the Likud Party, Peretz was a member of Shas Party. Both Parties are not considered part of Israels right wing.
so please Mr. Silverstien check your assumptions / facts prior to posting your propaganda to the world.
you have an agenda i understand, but from someone who claims he wants to deal with Tikun-Olam i can expect no to lie, or maybe i shouldn’t ?
In the rare cases when the immunity of Jewish members is revoked, it is for criminal behavior involving bribery and similar misdeeds. It is never revoked for political reasons as it was in Zoabi’s case.
@ Spiker… you’re drawing a IDF DOD cheque I assume?
He came here through the Fresh military forum, so it’s entirely possible.
No i do not. not anymore (every male / female in israel goes to service)
but unlike you guys, i have a first knowledge of the different issues the state of Israel deal’s with. and i am fluent in both Hebrew and Arabic (including the ability to write in both)
That doesn’t mean you understand what you’re reading or writing. And a good number of readers here are fluent in both languages so keep a lid on the boasting.
specially you.
your writing abilities in Hebrew are very well known.
i assume you visited Israel more then once, and that you have solid understanding of the issues in hand.
you still didn’t answer my question – and i am not asking on behalf of the Hasbara office – what gives a thief the moral right to reach others ? and i don’t mean you are literally a thief, just that the great american nation stole one, and i don’t see you trying to apply Tikun-Olam on that.
so please i am looking for a serious answer.
How can they be when you’ve never seen a product of my writing abilities. I’m fluent in every aspect of Hebrew including writing. I haven’t just visited Israel, I lived there for 2 years & have degrees in Hebrew literature.
If you want to discuss American history you’ll have to find another site to do that. My purpose here is to discuss Israel. If you want a serious answer there are myriad blogs which deal with this subject. YOu can easily find them. Besides many Israeli right wingers before you have raised such a stupid distracting provocation which I’ve answered before. I’m too bored with the repetitive questions to bother to do so again.
dont mk zoabi’s constituents reside in israel?
im sure if she wants, she can run for the pa leadership
but the flotilla had nothing to do with the constuents she is supposed to represent.
and richard, if a member of congress had chosen to openly break the sanctions on iraq or iran, or become a human shield for sadaam…what do you think would have happened to that person?
it is one thing to voice an opinion (there are those in congress who have voiced their opposition to the wars and occupations in afghanistan and iraq) quite another to take physical action
And you have the right to define for her what her interests & those of her constituents are because…???
Nothing Zoabi did violated Israeli law. Or didn’t you read that part of my post? If she had broken the law that’s precisely what the attorney general is for, to prosecute such infractions. Does the rightist rump of the Knesset arrogate itself the right to supercede the attorney general & police?
Richard, while Zoabi did brake the international law,( like any other flotilla participants – the international law) she had and had every intention of braking the Israeli law. so far her immunity was not revoked, only her privileges and i do hope her immunity will be revoked soon.
i as a tax payer to not need to fund those who support others that call for the inhalation of the state of Israel and the extinction of the Jews all over the world (you included).
She didn’t break international law, she didn’t break Israeli law. YOu don’t prosecute or punish someone because they might’ve been willing to break an unjust Israeli law prohibiting its citizens from entering Gaza.
Yr comment about hoping her immunity will be revoked is deeply offensive as this blog believes in democracy. If you don’t go somewhere else. I can’t abide Israelis who reject the notion that all citizens are entitled to their democratic rights. You may think what you wrote was cool & snarky. I find it as I wrote deeply offensive. If you make a crack like that again you’re outa here.
Zoabi never called for the inhalation or even annihilation (are you sure you still want to claim your mastery of the English language?) of Israel or of any Jews anywhere. Yr claim that she did is another lie. Lying is a violation of my comment rules. Consider this yr last warning. Any further violations will result in losing your comment privileges.
Pluralism a la richard… you can write here as long as you think like me.. as for what i stated: while Zoabi, never called for the annihilation of the state of israel, she only supported Hamas, and Hamas does support that (“i as a tax payer to not need to fund those who support others that call for the inhalation of the state of Israel”) . that is what i stated and that is not a lie. your claim on the other hand that zoabi’s immunity was revoked (“It is never revoked for political reasons as it was in Zoabi’s case.”) is a lie, and a violation of your kingdom rules.
as for the law that was broken… please refer to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994 (part IV section II)
)http://www.icrc.org/IHL.nsf/52d68d14de6160e0c12563da005fdb1b/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce!OpenDocument)
Trying to brake a navel blockade is a violation of the international humanitarian law, Zoabi’s presence on the ship was in violation of that law, hence she broke the law.
This too is a lie. Supporting Hamas within Israel is illegal & if she had done so she would be behind bars right now.
I never said her immunity was stripped. Find a place where I said that. I didn’t even say that in the quotation you lifted. I said her privileges were removed. In the conversation I also discussed other MKs whose immunity had been revoked. You’re confused.
You’re the 10th person here who has attempted to use San Remo, which has no standing under international law, as a source to prove the unprovable. Running the Israeli blockade is not illegal because it is the blockade itself that is illegal. Don’t refer to San Remo here again. We’ve aired the issue before w. other commenters & the subject is closed.
Breaking Israel’s blockade is a violation of HUMANITARIAN LAW???? Whoa pal. You’ve truly gone off the deep end.
though supporting Hamas is illegal within the state of Israel, many of those who publicly support Hamas were never put behind bars, Including Raad Salach. Hanin Zoabi and others.
You are distinguishing between supporting the Palestinians who live in Gaza, and supporting Hamas.
may i remind you all that Hamas was democratically elected to rule. and the People of Gaza have some responsibility towards their actions, hence you support the people you support Hamas. this artificial distinction between people and their regime didn’t work with Hitler’s Germany (the German people are paying to date for crimes they committed against the Jews during WWII) and shouldn’t work (in my opinion) with Hamas.
hence by identifying with the people of Gaza, Hanin Zoabi showed her support for Hamas.
as for the illegal status of the blockade, are you getting your facts from an Harry potter Book ? there is nothing illegal about the blockade. there was also nothing illegal with boarding the ships in international waters. US navy ships and others are conducting many operations like that daily, in other parts of the world.
the Notion presented here and other blogs, that the State of Israel has no right to defend itself is dangerous in that it creates an atmosphere. You too as a Jew would pay the price for that, as with revoking the right for Jewish self defense you will see (and we are seeing that today) increase and world-wide antisemitism.
I don’t believe Zoabi has ever publicly supported Hamas & this is the 2nd time I’m challenging you to prove it. I won’t ask again. Next time I’ll flat out call you a liar.
What nonsense. If Zoabi supports the people of Gaza that means she’s supporting Hamas? What utter nonsense. If a Likud coalition is in power in Israel does that mean that anyone who supports Israel supports Likud?? OF course not. Don’t be a fool.
Name me a single country in the world that has agreed w. this interpretation? You won’t find any. Name me a single human rights organization that agrees with this interpretation?
Where?
I never said that & any claim that I have is a lie. Israel has a right to defend itself. It doesn’t have a right to occupy another people for decades, steal their land, starve their children, & deprive them of their inalienable rights. It doesn’t have a right not to live within recognized international borders. It doesn’t have a right to lay siege to another people. Israel’s current actions are not “self-defense.”
[comment deleted per violation of comment rules]
Re:Trying to brake a navel blockade is a violation of the international humanitarian law
Louise Doswald-Beck is the author of the ICRC report on the Meetings of Experts convened by the International Committee of the Red Cross on the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea.
She explains the development of the San Remo Manual and its intended purpose on this ICRC web page, which says The Manual is not a binding document. In view of the extent of uncertainty in the law, the experts decided that it was premature to embark on diplomatic negotiations to draft a treaty on the subject.
So, please drop the stick and back away from the dead horse.
@Spiker. No, I wasn’t making reference to any past military service you may have done. Given your comments above I suspect that your attitude may be linked to this report: http://rinf.com/alt-news/contributions/israeli-hires-internet-soldiers/6148/
so either i think like you or I must be getting paid right ?
real American spirit exist here, freedom of thinking, Freedom of speech etc.
Bravo.
Unfortunately, your foreign ministry believes in employing shills to gin up positive messages on the web. So it’s a legitimate question to ask whether you’re part of this machine. I wish we could assume that everyone who publishes pro-Israel advocacy online was doing so for honest & personal reasons & was not either getting paid or doing it as a project for the government or some other official or unofficial body. But we don’t have that luxury.
so may i ask who funds you ?
will you show enough integrity to publish the list of donations received from different organizations ?
I find this comment offensive, deeply offensive. I warn you, the very next one that remotely violates my comment rules will result in losing yr comment privileges.
why offensive ?
you accused me for lack of authenticity, you accused me on writing on behalf of the IDF/ Israel foreign ministry.
why can’t i ask who funds the activity around this blog ?
No one does. I pay my own bills. Again I ask precisely who do you think is willing to shell out large amounts of cash to support a venture like this? You think there’s some vast, left wing anti Zionist conspiracy that races to sites like mine & offers a life on Easy Street? Yesterday, your stupid comment annoyed the hell out of me. TOnight, I think you’re a poor misguided fool & I pity you.
The amt of money I get in donations or for ads is miniscule. Again, why don’t you guess what the amt is & I’ll tell you by how many factors of 10 you’re off?
Actually Im South African… and the similarities between Israel and the old South African Nationalist regime are frightening! But you of course can’t see that…? right?
The old adage of “there are none so blind as those that will not see” springs to mind…
Keep in mind that the Nationalist government stripped Nelson Mandela of all his rights as well, incarcerating him for a large portion of his life… yet in the end he overcame everything that evil regime imposed on him. (It’s his 92nd birthday today)
It’s going to be interesting to see the response to this mornings video release of Netanyahu saying that America is easily moved…? The days of Israel blindly manipulating the world with lies are fast drawing to an end…
Best you rush off and grab your cheque whilst you can OK?
no i can’t see that.
please enlighten me. what similarities do you see ?
and i mean it. take the time and explain.
*yawn* I have better things to do with my day…
bye bye Mr IDF plant…
On what has been said on revoking the parliamentary priviliges of Zoabi and that his has never happened to right-wing MKs: not entirely true. In 1984, the House Committee of the Knesset did propose stripping Meir Kahane of the racist Kach party of his privileges concerning freedom of movement, after he had marched in Umm el-Fahm and called for the expulsion of Israel’s Palestinian Arabs. However, I don’t know whether his rights were actually revoked.
The Kach party was banned from participating in the next Knesset elections in 1988 for being ‘racist’ and ‘undemocratic’, see http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/06/world/israel-bans-kahane-party-from-election.html?pagewanted=1, and banned altogether in 1994. Looking at the current Knesset and its (extreme)right tendencies, I wonder whether Kach’s party would have also been banned in 2010 though.
That’s been pointed out already in this thread I believe. But thanks for the comment & I agree that the current Knesset contains members w. views equally racist & odious to any held by Kahane. If he were alive today he’d be foreign minister at least.