39 thoughts on “Israeli Ambassador Refuses J Street Invitation – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Seems to me that J Street from its inception to now has remained remarkably restrained and mild both in its statements and activities. I can only assume, Richard, that the hostile reactions to it that you summarize must suggest that the organization is doing something right. And I can also assume that if J Street dare proceed to move beyond its present modest critique of Israel’s fascistic government and right-wing militarism, then the hostility you describe will become far nastier and more aggressive. As with our own lock-step Republican Neanderthals, the truth, unlike that Biblical observation regarding same, will not make the Likud and its fellow travelers free, but only more nervous and truculent.

    1. Looks like the cat is out of the bag for Mr. Solomon a/k/a Martin E. Solomon of Newton, Mass. As you probably already know, Mr. Solomon thought it was great fun to take aim at some Gaza Freedom marchers, including posting the name and home address of one of his Newton neighbors who hosted a report back pot luck supper at his blog. This was after the poor woman was the subject of a filthy editorial published in the Newton Tab accusing her of being a terrorist supporting granny. Well, last night Mr. Solomon found that his full name, his street and even his wife’s name were mentioned on his very own blog site. He took out his snippers to remove the information but not before it was picked up by the folks at Google. Funny thing: one of his pals even posted a comment surmising that the info was an invitation for somebody to do harm to Mr. Solomon, but never expressed any concern about the lady whose private information has been strewn all over Solomonia.com Karma – what a bitch.

  2. “J Street is an ally of the Obama administration and as such is the enemy.”
    I’m sure this is true.
    But I believe a much bigger threat to the right-wing Jews is that J Street speaks for more moderate Jews. I think J Street’s emergence at this time is a testament to those Jews – including those far to the left of J Street – who for years have been voices crying out in the wilderness.

    The real threat to the right-wing is the disturbance of the “consensus” re Israel.
    There never really was a monolithic view of Israel by Jews in America and elsewhere, tho it seemed that way for many decades. In recent years the voices critical of Israel (in varying degrees) have been speaking louder. And even occasionally find voice in our compliant press.

    This movement toward diverse views and critical voices cannot be stopped.
    And we can expect that the right-wing will respond, yes, nastier and more aggressively.

  3. I have difficulty in considering Oren a serious scholar, and Phil Weiss appears to agree with me on this issue: Orientalism.

    Anyway, the hostility is easily explained.

    The Israeli government expects to oppose challenges to its legitimacy and has lots of hasbarah ready for the effort.

    J-Street — much too mildly to my standards — challenges the legitimacy of the Jewish Zionist political economic oligarchy in the USA, and the plutocrats simply do not deal kindly with opposition.

    The Israeli government as loyal lapdog to the oligarchy shows its faithfulness by echoing its masters’ stance.

    Peninsulares versus Criollos

  4. I have difficulty considering Martillo a serious scholar bec. of statements like this:
    “an Israel Lobby, which in reality represents a clear and present danger to all Americans because mobilized Zionist political economic oligarchs have used their power to poison the American political and economic system”

    Not bec I don’t think the Israel Lobby is awful and should not have any influence in my country, any more than the Pinochet lobby should not have had any influence in my country.
    [a lot of cross-over between these two, btw.]

    But bec. the American system is poisoned by many more things than Zionist oligarchs alone.
    Putting it the way he does nudges a little too close to the “Evil Jews control all and are responsible for all evil.”

    If anyone goes thru his website {which I have in the past} you can come across similar sentiments which are somewhat on the line between being an anti-semite and being a pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel, anti-Zionist.

    Anyway that’s the conclusion I have drawn. And if Martillio is going to ask me to show some statements, don’t bother. I don’t have the time. Anyone can go to his website and decide for yourself.

    1. Very glad you have quite succinctly said what you have about Mr. Martillo , something I’ve been wanting to do since I, too, visited his website, apparently reaching the same quacking- duck conclusion as you.

    2. Dear Ellen,

      I do not claim that my blog entries are publishable as scholarly papers or books although I am certainly capable of such product when I am funded and have the time, but Oren’s work is touted as serious and scholarly, which indicates something seriously wrong in academia (Gladwell Supports Hegemonic Zionist Discourse).

      We just watched a close-knit cadre of Zionist intelligentsia (Neoconservatives) manipulate the US government into foreign policy that incinerated one Arab or Muslim country after another?

      Why couldn’t the same intelligentsia mobilize hyperwealthy Zionists in policies that poison the American system?

      You are suffering from some sort of ridiculous progressive Jewish Pavlovian reaction that forces you to defend people with whom you have nothing in common (unless you have at least $300 million in the bank).

      Maybe you want to find mines or to catch bullets for the likes of Sheldon Adelson, Martin Peretz, the Crowns, or the Krafts, but the members of my organization, who are almost entirely Jewish, think such behavior is really stupid.

      Anyway, you left out the whole argument from What I Said in Washington.

      I was was given the last response at the conference.

      Phil Wilayto, who touted putative Jewish ancestry and who seems like basically a good guy but stuck in old leftist thinking, denied the existence of the Israel Lobby and claimed that Israel is simply a tool of rapacious US imperialism.

      I objected to that claim. I pointed out that the top 1500-2000 American contributors to the Israel Lobby own or control assets, which can be assigned an effective (Virtual State) GDP of something over $2 trillion approximately equal to that of France or Germany without any of the liabilities associated with running a real country.* Consequently, the Zionist GDP functions as if it is at least an order of magnitude larger than $2 trillion in comparison with the GDP of real states.

      The Israel Lobby’s effective GDP of at least $20 trillion is very scary because the real US GDP is only approximately $14 trillion, of which a good chunk really belongs to the Zionist GDP.

      Normally taking a bunch of wealthy people and assigning them a virtual GDP would not make sense because usually weapons manufacturers, publishers, real estate developers, retailers, etc. do not collaborate with each other or with their own competitors.

      Unfortunately for the rest of us, because of mobilization by Zionist intelligentsia, Zionist political-economic oligarchs committed to the continued existence of the State of Israel have cooperated to create a vastly powerful Zionist imperial system, which has a genuine GDP and in which the USA functions as a dependent and intimidated client state.

      As all Americans recently saw, the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations (COPOMAJO) deals with the USA on a state-to-state (really hegemon-to-client) basis.

      Thus, Wilayto was simply wrong when he denied the existence of an Israel Lobby, which in reality represents a clear and present danger to all Americans because mobilized Zionist political economic oligarchs have used their power to poison the American political and economic system and to fabricate a civilizational conflict that should never have arisen and that has created a potential threat worse than the Cuban missile crisis.

      I wanted to wrap up by relating this analysis to pre-Revolution NY German American Jewish investments in Cuba and the post-Revolution insanity of US-Cuban embargo-expropriation tit-for-tat that escalated into US-Soviet nuclear confrontation in order to bring the Conference back to the original sanctions topic, with which we started, but I ran out of time and garbled my point.

      * Assigning a virtual GDP to the “economy” associated with a set of mobilized political economic oligarchs is a research project for which I am neither funded nor staffed. Looking at the top 2000 American contributors is rather arbitrary, and if I actually could make the effort to develop a theoretical formalism to look at a virtual GDP, I would probably find the number much larger than my current estimate.

      I admit that I need to do more research on this topic.

      I believe that the Virtual GDP is probably higher than I calculated and that the multiplier may not be a full order of magnitude.

      Yet it is inherently scary that hyperwealthy Zionists have the ability to muster an economic clout comparable to that of the US.

      Real progressives would focus on this issue instead mindlessly screeching accusations of anti-Semitism.

      1. Mr. Martillo, as one of your mindless screechers who has visited your website, being of socio-political and ornithological mind, I find that you are indeed a quacking duck paddling about your anti-Semitic cesspool for no doubt sundry reasons, whatever your background and whatever shaped you. This I offer despite the fortuitous and unfortunate confluence of some our criticisms of Israeli policy and action. Mussolini’s draining of the Pontine Marshes, after all, may have been a commendable deed, but my negative opinion of Il Duce does not rise as a result. You frankly surprise me that you, a practitioner of anti-Zionist cliche, have not yet, using your scholarly license, quoted from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. After all, Sir, as you yourself declared, “…I do not claim that my blog entries are publishable as scholarly papers or books although I am certainly capable of such product when I am funded and have the time.” Well, who knows? Perhaps the day will come when you might just carve out the requisite time and some plutocratic ethnic Ashkenazim of charitable and masochistic bent will offer you some of their money left over from buying American politicians to enable you to create scholarly product.

        1. Like the usual mindless Ziobot, Weinstein did not answer a single point I made about the clout of Jewish Zionist political economic oligarchs.

          In addition Weinstein’s ignorant comment about the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, which I doubt he has ever read, does not phase me in the least, because I have been in Jewish Studies for over 40 years and know all the usual Pavlovian triggers that Jewish Zionist halbinteligentn try to invoke.

          Why use some worn-out old conspiracy theory?

          In [wvns] money power’s war on islam, I discuss one that is much more cool, much more up-to-date, and much better illustrated.

          As I point out conspiracy theories are phenomenologies created by people that know there are connections between people and events but lack critical information.

          Incorrectness or inadequacy of conspiracy theories hardly means there are no conspiracies. Eastern European politics whether Jewish or gentile has been conspiratorial for at least two centuries. Because of my interests study both conspiracies and conspiracy theories.

          The Polish Socialist Party (PPS) has been called the 40 year conspiracy to create an independent Polish state.

          The PPS ideologist Kazimierz Kelles-Krauz, whose thinking in many ways paralleled Borokhov, considered Zionists (in comparison with the Bundists) potentially worthy allies and counterparts of the most intellectually advanced of the PPS as well as at least as conspiratorial.

          There is no reason why we cannot look rationally at political economic evolution that is at least partially conspiratorial. Scholars of E. European political economy do it all the time. Someone like Weinstein that tries to prevent such discussion is intellectually dishonest and contemptible.

    3. “an Israel Lobby, which in reality represents a clear and present danger to all Americans because mobilized Zionist political economic oligarchs have used their power to poison the American political and economic system”

      Well a fair question is that is can in USA a politician become the president if he/she doesn’t frequently and publicly announce his “love” towards Israel during his carrier. We all know that it is impossible. We also know that the Jews represent 2.2 percent of the population. It is not the question of normal political power. So from where comes that enormous power which makes a “mouse” leading the “elephant”?

      My country Finland had a phase during Cold War after the lost wars called Finlandization which resembles in a way the USA’s present situation. Then all critics against Soviet Union was “not wanted” and all politicians from the right to left had frequently and publicly announce their “love” towards the big neighbour if they wanted achieve higher posts. In those circumstances then our policy had “sense” and Finland handsomely benefited economically from that more or less clear “subordination” relationship. For a mouse it makes sense to be careful when it is near an aggressive elephant.

      USA is not Finland and Israel is not Soviet Union. However Israel and the tiny pro-Israeli Jewish population can pilot USA in a sovereign way the KGB and party officials in Moscow could only dream of some decades ago. Simply asthonishing.

  5. There are 2 solutions to the observations of Martillo and Simohutta
    1) Jews have magical powers to rob and deceive “real Americans” or
    2) Israel and the US share some values in common

    Which is it?

    1. Well it would be interesting to know what are the shared values and interests?

      Surely the shared values can not be democracy, equality and freedom of religion, because those do not exist in their real form in Israel. Hardy the shared values are isolating people behind the walls simply because they have a different religion or equal things we see in Israel/Palestine.

      Surely the national interest of USA and EU regarding the economical issues and access to raw materials is with Arab and Muslim countries thousand (at least) times more important than trade with Israel.

      So the shared values are not democracy and human rights and US national interests are not economical in traditional peaceful sense. What are they?

    2. Cborg is using a typical trick of Jewish Zionist apologetics into which people with partial knowledge almost invariably fall.

      In college I investigated why Saxony in 19th Germany became such a hotbed of anti-Semitism even though relative to other German States Saxony had few Jews. It all hinged on the meat industry and the unethical possibly criminal efforts of a “consortium” of mostly German Polish Jewish immigrants

      1. to seize vertical control of the industry through collusion and middle market restraint of trade and

      2. to wipe out the German non-Jewish retailers, who in fact eventually supplied many leaders of the German anti-Semitic movement.

      The native German Saxon Jewish population were disgusted by the behavior of the consortium, which was protected from legal consequences by ties to powerful German aristocrats.

      It is a pattern that I have seen over and over.

      Rich American Jews and Geert Wilders addresses the issue. You have to go to the article to read the links. Here is the conclusion:

      Despite Bollyn’s assumptions I do not see any evidence of some sinister conspiracy linking 9/11 to the implosion at GM, but I do believe that Jewish social networks (or networks of trust in the older terminology) have been pushing total incompetence (and total rapaciousness) for a long time. In addition, I have difficulty describing Merkin as Madoff’s partner in crime, for Madoff clearly realized that it was easier to loot the stupid rich like Merkin than to loot corporations as Merkin was forced to do because Merkin does not have a clue about running a corporation competently.

      Members of Jewish networks of trust succeed not because they are good but because they cheat: {list of blog entries}

      With sufficient economic power especially in the media industry or among powerful advertisers, controlling information flow becomes quite attainable: Zionist Control Spanish: Spanish Language Media.

      Of course, as helpful as highly evolved business cheating may be to economic success or intimidating radio stations, it doth not a Jewish Zionist national political program make.

      Some serious strategic thinking is required.

      Before Zionism, Jewish business networks of trust were based on common faith and commitment to Jewish sacred law, which in effect provides a uniform commercial code (UCC).

      Zionism provided a new basis in commitment to Jewish control of Palestine and a stripped down UCC that made it legal among Jews “if it’s good for the Jews.”

      In Jewish Financial Aggression, Worldwide Economic Nakba (paragraph starting with “Seth Schwartz”), I give an overview of the process that leads to Jewish national consolidation in the Zionist Virtual Colonial Motherland and ultimately a world spanning Zionist Empire that maintains the USA as a dependent and intimidated client state.

      In terms of the strategy of the aggrandizement of economic power, Jabotinsky made the largest contribution when he and Achimeir outline a concept of ethnonational financial warfare in parallel with the idea of the Iron Wall.

      When Jabotinskians took power with the Begin government and when they began receving unaccounted billions of dollars during the Reagan administration as a result of the Camp David Peace Agreement, they put Jabotinsky’s ideas into operation, and it should be no surprise

      1. that almost immediately a series of manipulated booms, busts, and disasters began that has at this point gotten totally out of control and

      2. that arch-stealth-Zionist Martin Feldstein, who was in the Reagan administration to facilitate the S&L disaster, is now back to manipulate the CDO meltdown that he was instrumental in creating at AIG (on the model of practices associated with colonizing Palestinian occupied territories).

      In summary, the development of an imperial Zionist political-economic oligarchy has been partially evolution, partially strategy, and partially opportunism as this sort of development always is.

      None of this analysis is anti-Semitic whatever Ellen and Weinstein may rant. I can apply the same sort of analysis to evolution of Japanese militarism.

      Yet nothing is more vile and offensive that the efforts of indoctrinated Ziobots like Ellen and Weinstein to use mindless reflexive accusations of anti-Semitism to prevent rational analysis of political economic developments among Jews in exactly the same way one might discuss similar political economic developments among any other politically and economically active group of people.

      1. Joachim: I’ve generally given you the benefit of the doubt in your postings here while also letting you know that I don’t subscribe to most of what I consider your wild-eyed conspiratorial theories. I think you’ve crossed the line here. And you’ve certainly crossed the line in attacking two commenters here who have nothing to do with Zionism (I don’t know whether or not they’d call themselves anti-Zionists). But your epithets are offensive, inappropriate & a major violation of my comment rules. I don’t want to end yr comment privileges, but rein yrself in or you will lose them.

        IN terms of yr comments, I’m interested in facts and not theories. Stay away fr. theories no matter how fond you are of them. Facts, good. Theories, bad. Understand?

        1. I am not sure which statements you are calling “wild-eyed conspiracy theories.”

          One can find English-language discussions of the late 19th century controversy over the Saxon meat industry and kosher-slaughtering, but the real issue — the Gemeinde (native Saxon Jews) versus the Kahal (a conspiracy of recent Polish Jewish immigrants) versus the Gentile Butchers — does not seem to come through in the English-language articles, which focus on the issue of humane slaughter as the means to ban shehitah.

          When I was studying the conflict in college, I had to look at the primary German, Yiddish, and Hebrew language sources to understand what actually was taking place.

          As for the GDP numbers, I just looked up the US government figures as well as the main Zionist donors and their assets.

          I can provide Hebrew language references for Jabotinski’s and Achimeir’s economic writings.

          Martin Feldstein’s involvement with the S&L debacle as well as CDOs at AIG are rather well documented. The machinations of Harvard-Boston area finance industry Zionists periodically hit the papers. Even though I have worked as a screen writer, I simply could not make this stuff up.

          When I look at the sort of people that Obama is bringing in as economic advisors, I am tempted to paraphrase Mark Twain. If the Obama administration were not giving them a home, the US government would have to build more prisons.

          I will refrain from calling people Ziobots, which to me is comparable to Ellen’s insinuations of anti-Semitism, but a good deal milder than Norman Weinstein’s anti-Semitic cesspool crack.

          To my mind one does not have to be a Zionist to be a Ziobot because I use the term to describe the person, who makes a certain kind of reflexive response related to the Holocaust or anti-Semitism instead of addressing issues during discussions of Zionism.

          1. OK, Joachim, I’ve lost patience really & warned you earlier. You seem not to have taken those warnings to heart. My blog comment threads are not the place to spin long, complex, obscure & just plain weird personal theories about all manner of Jewish perfidy. I’m going to moderate yr comments & publish those which are on-topic & not offensive.

      2. Joachim, one of my main problems with your approach is that the non-Jewish majority appears to lack any agency in your world and frame. They’re just dupes to be set upon by ‘crafty Jews’, so to speak.

        At different points in history, various ‘identity groups’ have worked for the interests of ‘their own’ to varying degrees. Perhaps some Jews can seem particularly tribalistic to some Gentiles, but the incredibly essentialistic way you deal with these issues misses the boat and is counter-productive. To the extent your account of 19th century Saxony is true, you could just as well blame the gentile German upper class and aristocracy for exploiting Jews as the economic middle men and letting them take the heat for the upper class’s squeezing of middle and working class Germans. Class structure and the question of economic exploitation is a more fruitful way to deal with these issues than obsessive fixation on ethnicity.

        The ‘face’ of elites can change over time. For quite a long time the U.S. had a pretty deeply entrenched & dominant WASP economic elite (and you still see its big guns & footprint today in the Bushes, Cheneys, the oil junta, etc., a fairly Gentile milieu.) In the mid and later 19th century and early part of the 20th century, German-Americans dominated significant areas of American industry, manufacturing and culture (think Walter Chrysler, H. J. Heinz, James Kraft, Henry Steinway and so on), and some of them could be pretty anti-labor. If there is a problem with a particular system or structure, or unjust actions happening, deal with that specifically RATHER THAN singling out or isolating a certain group of people in this all-encompassing way.

    3. cborg, you’ve presented about as classic & textbook a case of a false dichotomy as I’ve seen in quite some time. I don’t frankly understand why you distinguish between American Jews and ‘real Americans’, perhaps you have some issues you need to deal with. I think it’s safe to assert that Jews do not possess “magical powers”, as you put it, to deceive “real Americans”.

      There’s nothing magical or omnipotent at all about the Israel lobby (they’re not all Jewish, either), but the lobby does have a quite effective, and distortive influence on American foreign policy; distortive because its goals (along with the goals of other American lobbies and interests like the oil lobby, etc.) are morally objectionable and at odds with the values of most Americans, as well as being bad for the well-being and interests of the country as a whole.

  6. One of the problems J-Street faces is that a lot of people who claim to be supporters are on what is considered the radical fringe of the Israeli spectrum. Now, J-Street claims to be “pro-Israel”, a term you, Richard, use in a negative connotation, so already there are grounds for confusion.
    Dr Bernard Avishai, another J-Street supporter is in favor of something like BDS, i.e. he says the US Administration should threaten economic sanctions on Israel in order to get “progressive” pro-peace forces to move forcibly against what he calls “Judeans”–the religious, pro-settler groups. I see people who are in favor of having Israeli political leaders and military officers being put on trial for “war crimes” by international tribunals say they are proud to associate with J-Street and are planning to attend their upcoming conference.
    I have not read J-Street’s official statements, but I doubt they openly support BDS, sanctions or war-crimes trials.
    So the question remains “what is J-Street’s real aims” which are not clear. Thus, you should not be surprised if the Israel government and embassy are keeping their distance.

    1. One of the problems J-Street faces is that a lot of people who claim to be supporters are on what is considered the radical fringe of the Israeli spectrum. Now, J-Street claims to be “pro-Israel”, a term you, Richard, use in a negative connotation, so already there are grounds for confusion.

      No, you are as usual wrong. I almost always use the term “right-wing pro Israel” or “pro-Israel rightist” to separate bet. this & J Street’s correct claims that it is merely “pro-Israel,” which it is. And the notion that J Street’s supporters are on the radical fringe is only true if you’re Bar Kochba or a settler supporter and are on the far right of the spectrum. You indeed are on the radical right fringe & that’s why you see things through such a distorted prism.

      You have not quoted Avishai so, as usual we will not credit any claim you make here until you do. As for me, I do support investigations of IDF and Gaza war crimes by Israel and the Palestinians. If these do not happen then I do support international action. But this is not a J St. position. I do not claim to speak for J Street. My views are my own & I am clear to distinguish bet. my own views & J Street’s. If you have a problem w. J Street you will have to confine it to J Street’s actual stated positions & not range far afield trying to impeach the group because someone like me writes things supportive of J Street.

      1. Silverstein, have you invested any time in researching J-street? The organization is driven by Soros dollars and is clearly not in-line with the sentiments of the majority of Jews and rather in line with the feelings of raging-leftists and their Islamic donors. For example, J-street does not condone the option of a military strike on Iran to prevent the country from going nuclear – while a majority of American Jews do.

        The reality is that any Israel activist group should be advocating views that are in line with the needs and policies of the Israeli government, and typically those needs revolve around the defense of its citizens. So it seems rather odd a so-called “pro-Israel” organizations refuses to call a spade a spade and instead drivels on with crap letters to the Jerusalem Post:

        http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1255450643490

        The citizens of Israel have a democratically-elected government to represent their interests. The ambassador to the USA is the premier representative and its role is to serve the interests of the Israeli people. If J Street wants to help Israel it should consult the ambassador and mediate in proper roles.

        If J street wants to act like a self-appointed King of the Jews, they’ll get hammered out eventually. Hopefully soon.

        You say your blog is designed to “resolve the Israel-Palestinian conflict” but from what I see all you do is force all the guilt on the Jews. Pretty typical of so called “pro-peace” organizations. Any resolution to this conflict would be a true end to their activist needs, Silverstein would be no more. XD

        I truly love hearing about this magical Jewish cabal that runs the American government. How horrible, 5+ million Jews concerned about the welfare of 5+ million other Jews sitting on a sliver of land the size of Wales surrounded by homicidal 350,000,000 Jihadists, Arabs and Palestinians.

        It must be a conspiracy!!

        Those dirty Jews! AIPAC is successful for a reason and it is not because of magical powers or super-Jew abilities but through leadership decisions and narrow agenda. It’s much easier to dehumanize your opponent rather than actually debate in an honest, intellectual, and cordial manner.

        1. AIPAC represents neither the views of American Jews or the Israeli government.

          It represents the opinions of the Zionist political economic oligarchs, who fund it — or more correctly the opinions that the Zionist intelligentsia tell the oligarchs they should have.

          The Krafts and Sheldon Adelson are not particularly deep or ideological thinkers if left to their own brains.

          Soros gives money to lots of endeavors that he considers worthy, but having been involved in some finance modeling efforts he funded, I have the impression that he is a hands-off kind of guy, and probably does not get involved in J-Street in any major sort of way.

          1. “That’s the authoritarian, if not outright fascist view of the relation between a country and its government, all right.”

            Uh? How is this authoritarian? Israel is a representative democracy and as such elects politicians to represent their point of view. Labor and Kadima got crushed in the previous election and it is likely they will remain so unless Natanyahu truly screws up.

            J street is trying to undermine AIPAC and the other pro-Israel organizations by calling itself a “pro-Israel organization” with a little peacey flavor. However, when you actually look beyond the poetic hyperbole about harmony and love the specific policies are more in line with European interest groups and not standard Israel sentiments.

            Majority of Israelis do not see J street as a pro-Israel organization.

            Stop hijacking buzzwards like Fascist and authoritarian to elicit support, in a sea of religious despotism whatever Israel does it is still the Canada of the Middle East.

            “It is and has always been the Israeli govt, not JStreet, that’s acting like the self-appointed King of the Jews, and if JStreet refuses to pay fealty to the usurper, good for them.”

            Israel is a Jewish state, so I imagine they are in a way the king of the Jews. The point is J street is labeling itself as the “true” representative of American Jews and their desire to see Israel prosper and thrive but in reality their policies are not consistent with current American Jewish polls.

            There is no other way to get around this. Insulting the opposition as some cabel of Jews who control American foreign policy isn’t going to convince anyone meaningful.

            “That’s unfortunately correct, and the reason why Israel is looking more and more like Germany in the 1920s.”

            Of course. And what does that make the Palestinians and the Islamic despots? I don’t think there is a single country on Earth that is so frequently compared to Nazi Germany l. Apparently that passes as legitimate political philosophy these days…

            “AIPAC represents neither the views of American Jews or the Israeli government.”

            Actually, it does. AIPAC is funded by American Jews and its policies are very in-line with the Israeli government. That’s the whole point. It doesn’t really matter if Labor, Likud, Shas…whatever party is in power AIPAC must lobby on behalf of it. There is nothing sinister about this.

            “Thanks for adding the bit of Islamophibic racism.”

            there is no such thing as Islamophobia. Phobia implies an irrational fear, this is not irrational nor is it fear.

            I guess American Jews seem rather silent seeing Islamic dictatorships sending billions to Western universities, funding Islamic, Middle Eastern, and International Studies.

            Hey, and 60% of American mosques are owned by Saudi Arabia. Israel is not your enemy nor is support for it morally unacceptable. I don’t see you complaining about the $1.5 billion we give to Egypt every year, even as they sponsor the genocide in Darfur and send goods to Al-Shabaab in Somalia. Your moral standard should apply to all countries, not just the Jews.

          2. Labor and Kadima got crushed in the previous election

            Not so, Kadima actually won one more seat than Likud. But Likud had more allies in other parties willing to ally with it. So much for yr grasp of Israeli political reality.

            the specific policies are more in line with European interest groups and not standard Israel sentiments.

            Ridiculous. Once again, J St. isn’t “in line” with European interest groups & could care a fig about them. It is “in line” with the interests of American Jewry.

            Majority of Israelis do not see J street as a pro-Israel organization

            Oh & you have polling data to prove this? I thought not. The truth is that the majority of Israelis have never heard of J Street & have no opinion about it at all.

            Israel does it is still the Canada of the Middle East.

            Now that’s a new hasbara slogan I hadn’t heard. Why not the “U.S.A. or the MIddle East?” Or has the good ol’ USA fallen out of favor as a model for Israel?

            their policies are not consistent with current American Jewish polls.

            Either you’re lying or ignorant. Given the quality of what you’ve offered thus far here I’d say you’re ignorant. J Street has done extensive polling proving the exact opposite & even a recent AJC annual poll showed that J St.’s positions were often in alignment with the majority of American Jews. And when they weren’t I’d maintain that over time J St.’s views will become the consensus just as issues like the 2 state solution & acceptance of the PLO were anathema at one time both in Israel & among American Jews.

            I don’t think there is a single country on Earth that is so frequently compared to Nazi Germany

            You haven’t been reading yr own PM’s speeches in which he equates Iran with Nazi Germany on virtually a regular basis.

            AIPAC is funded by American Jews and its policies are very in-line with the Israeli government

            Actually that’s wrong. Aipac’s views are often more extreme than those of Israeli governments, though with the current one it is so rightist that Aipac prob. is in accord with it. But Aipac’s policy positions are far more rightist than the majority of Amer. Jews.

            I guess American Jews seem rather silent seeing Islamic dictatorships sending billions to Western universities, funding Islamic, Middle Eastern, and International Studies.

            American Jews can fund Israel studies programs that are sometimes little more than cheering sections for a pro-Israel hasbara approach to the field. So what’s wrong with Arabs doing the same? What good for the goose is good for the gander.

            Egypt every year, even as they sponsor the genocide in Darfur

            What a stupid lie. YOu’re getting tiresome. Stick to facts. If you don’t have any then you’ll lose yr comment privileges here.

        2. The reality is that any Israel activist group should be advocating views that are in line with the needs and policies of the Israeli government,

          That’s the authoritarian, if not outright fascist view of the relation between a country and its government, all right.
          It is and has always been the Israeli govt, not JStreet, that’s acting like the self-appointed King of the Jews, and if JStreet refuses to pay fealty to the usurper, good for them.

          and typically those needs revolve around the defense of its citizens.

          That’s unfortunately correct, and the reason why Israel is looking more and more like Germany in the 1920s.

          1. Uh? How is this authoritarian? Israel is a representative democracy and as such elects politicians to represent their point of view.

            A democratically elected government has a temporary mandate to run the country’s administration and foreign diplomacy. NGOs and private individuals, whether in or outside of Israel are under no obligation to equate being “pro-Israel” and being “pro Israeli govt”. They are perfectly entitled to the opinion that the policies of the govt are harmful to the interests of the country, or of Jews, including abroad. Even if JStreet was an Israeli organisation they’d also be entitled to peacefully seek a change to the state’s ostensible axioms. Demanding loyalty to a government rather than the state, all the more so from non-citizens, is a hallmark of authoritarianism, as is all the geschrei about “traitors” and “self-hating Jews”.

            Israel is a Jewish state, so I imagine they are in a way the king of the Jews.

            That depends on how you define “Jewish state”. Being majority Jewish doesn’t make it King of anything, just like Italy or Ireland or the Rhineland would be laughed out of town if they labelled themselves “Kings of the Catholics”.
            Whether JStreet represents American Jews at large, or however large a part of them, I’ll leave to the American Jews. I’m not one of them.

            I don’t think there is a single country on Earth that is so frequently compared to Nazi Germany.

            There was no Nazi Germany in the 1920s, and I’m not equating Israel with it either. (“Comparing” is another matter, for how do you determine if two things are or are nor equal if it’s verboten to compare them?)
            The Weimar Republic was democratic in important respects, as is Israel. It was also plagued – and eventually defeated – by rampant militarism, a judiciary that in political cases didn’t deserve its name, and a constant rise of political extremism.

        3. The organization is driven by Soros dollars

          Lies, all lies. George Soros doesn’t contribute a dime to J ST. And even if he DID there would be no problem as Soros is entitled to contribute money to such causes just as you or I are.

          No one except you claims that J St. has to reflect the views of American Jews in every particular. In fact, you are wrong again about J St.’s views about Iran since it has taken no specific position about attacking Iran. But if it was opposed to such a horrific possibility (as I suspect it is) it would speak well of the group, not ill as you claim.

          The reality is that any Israel activist group should be advocating views that are in line with the needs and policies of the Israeli government,

          J St. is NOT an “Israel activist group.” It is an American Jewish activist group & thus it takes views in line with the needs of ISRAEL & Amer. Jews, not a particular gov’t & certainly not a far right gov’t like this one.

          Thanks for adding the bit of Islamophibic racism. Read my comment rules. The next violation will end yr comment privileges here.

      2. You indeed are on the radical right fringe & that’s why you see things through such a distorted prism.

        If this Bar Kochba is the person who I think he is (http://masada1234.blogspot.com/) then yes: this is an unabashed settler supporter.

        Bar Kochba also sported (until recently) a banner in his sidebar on which the WB and Gaza were indicated as ‘Arab Occupied Land’…

  7. I’ve reviewed several of the posts here and have found them to be quite interesting. I decided to fact-check through the history of J street in contrast with how it is being represented, and found some rather surprising results.

    Many of you here refer to the right-wing “settlers” as a major obstacle to securing cooperation with the Palestinian leadership. I cannot dispute this represents an emotional facet of the peace process. Not surprisingly, J Street’s rather hard-line approach towards the settlements resonated well with many of the posters here.

    Here’s the problem: J Street lauded the President’s pressure on Israel to implement a complete construction freeze in Jewish neighborhoods in the eastern part of Jerusalem in Jewish settlements in the West Bank.

    There are several problems with this proposal. First, it is most certainly not in line with the current and previous governments of Israel. Both Olmert (Kadima) and Natenyahu put a moratorium on new settlements in the West Bank but all leaders have said Jews should be able to live anywhere they want to in Jerusalem, as it is “Israel’s undivided capital.” It also might be good to mention a sizable number of Arabs have moved into Jewish neighborhoods.

    Another problem with J Streets position is that even the most progressive pro-Israel Jewish-interest group has never demanded that Jews stop living in Jerusalem.

    Obama and J street probably did not read the Bush administration memo that read it would be unrealistic to think Israel would start a campaign in preventing Jews from living in Jerusalem – as well as evicting Jews from Gush Etzion settlements (many of which were burned down during the Arab revolt), such as Neve Daniel. Nobel Peace-Prize winning and pro-Arab Jimmy Carter even said “This particular settlement area is not one that I can envision ever being abandoned or changed over into Palestinian territory. This is part of settlements close to the 1967 line that I think will be here forever.”

    Puzzler…

    I guess this makes Jimmy Carter an organ of the hard-liner colonizing land-grabbing movement, eh Silverstein?

    The second problem can be found in Ben-Ami’s extremely bloated and wordy letter to Ambassador Oren:

    ” “We too have our own serious concerns over the policies of the present Israeli government and its impact not just on Israel’s interests but on our interests as Americans and as American Jews. As Jews who care about Israel, we fear that, on Israel’s present path, we will see our shared dream of a Jewish, democratic home in the state of Israel slip through our fingers.

    “As Americans, we worry about the impact of Israeli policies on vital U.S. interests in the Middle East and around the world.

    “Finally, as American Jews, we worry that the health and vitality of our community will be deeply affected by what happens in the region, how the world perceives Israel and by how our community here at home deals with increasingly complex conversations around Israel.””

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1255450643490&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

    After de-coding the doublespeak, J Street is basically saying Israel poses a threat to America’s interest in the Middle East and foreign policy achievements.

    Ben-Ami is pretty much defying every spectrum of the current Israel’s governments policies towards the Palestinian leadership, which has a majority support among the Labor on the left and Likud on the right (though Livni is trying to score points in Kadima), not to mention the majority of Israelis.

    Ben-Ami also completely ignores the multi-faceted security relationship Israel has with the United States that ranges from missile defense (Arrow Missile System), intelligence sharing (revelation that Russian scientists were collaborating with the Iranian nuclear program 1 week ago), to dealing with terrorist threats from Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda etc.

    Ask the American people Silverstein, unlike you they see Israel as an ally. A Gallup poll surveyed in August 2009 showed 58% of Americans expresses solidarity with Israel, while sympathy for the Palestinian agenda was less than ~9%. A Rasmussen poll (arguably more conservative but still respectable) showed 70% of Americans see Israel as a reliable ally, which does not fit well with how Ben-Ami portrays Israel.

    Btw, no country in the Middle East is ranked higher…but that isn’t much of an accomplishment.

    From what I see, the J street Ben-Ami is pushing for revolves manufacturing a ficticious incompatibility between US and Israeli interests, and Ami implies Israel is a potential threat to America’s “health and vitality” of the American Jewish community.

    This might be true in the far-left progressive community, but the majority of Americans disagree.

    Ami implies Israel’s military exercises put American Jews at risk and appears far more concerned about how the world sees Israel rather than Israel’s security needs.

    One also can help but recognize Ami’ s comedic doomsday prophecy for Israel. Ami says if Israel continues its current strategies, the “dream of a Jewish democratic home in the state of Israel” will be gone. Laughable, because not only has Israel’s current strategies led the state to survive 4 consecutive wars, but win all of them decisively, while capturing enemy-land 4x the size of its own state. If Israel were to take the recommendations of J Street, Israel wouldn’t be where it is today – still alive.and more powerful than its neighbors.

    Ben-Ami’s shockingly refusal to call Israel a “Jewish state” is quite disturbing. He calls it, a “Jewish, democratic home in the state of Israel.”

    J Street’s agenda resembles the “pro-peace” agenda, that Israel is a state where Jews are home to but it must leave plenty of room for a “Right of Return” for the Arab refugees – effectively creating a bi-national state.

    Remember, Barack Obama – a man 4% of Israelis believe is pro-Israel – has NO problem calling Israel a Jewish state.

    If J-street, a self-described pro-Israel organization, can’t do so…how on Earth can they be a legitimate, representative of the needs of the Jewish people and those who support Israel?

    The reality is not only do J Streets policies conflict with the consensus of American Jews, but also Americans in general.

    Write this off as pro-Israel propaganda if you like, I just thought I should follow up with a more thorough and reasoned assessment of J Street beyond the knee-jerk far-left perspective.

    1. Yr comments are getting longer & more lugubrious. This isn’t the place to write a treatise or score every pt you could possibly score in a debate. I’m not a propaganda outlet for you. Keep ’em short if you want to keep posting here.

      all leaders have said Jews should be able to live anywhere they want to in Jerusalem, as it is “Israel’s undivided capital.” It also might be good to mention a sizable number of Arabs have moved into Jewish neighborhoods.

      Actually, a majority of Israelis have said they would be willing to divide Jerusalem which implies that they are not necessarily in favor of extremist settlers stealing Palestinian property in order to settle settlers in Arab East Jerusalem neighborhoods. The bit of Arabs living in Jewish neighborhoods is a lie. There are virtually no Arabs living in Jewish neighborhoods within the Green Line. There is a claim that some rent in Jerusalem neighborhoods beyond the Green Line, but no Arab owns any property in any Jewish neighborhoods.

      even the most progressive pro-Israel Jewish-interest group has never demanded that Jews stop living in Jerusalem.

      Nor has J Street. Jews can live in Jerusalem. They just can’t steal Palestinian land and buildings to plant settler thieves funded by people like Irving Moskowitz in the midst of a Palestinian majority.

      Obama and J street probably did not read the Bush administration memo

      They may or may not have read it. But in case you didn’t get the memo yrself Bush isn’t president and Obama is. He gets to make the rules now.

      J Street is basically saying Israel poses a threat to America’s interest in the Middle East and foreign policy achievements.

      No, not ISRAEL. But current Israeli policy. There’s a difference which you haven’t picked up on.

      Ben-Ami is pretty much defying every spectrum of the current Israel’s governments policies towards the Palestinian leadership

      Since you haven’t specified what position you claim J St. is taking toward the Palestinian leadership there’s no way of making head or tails of yr claim.

      Ask the American people Silverstein, unlike you they see Israel as an ally.

      Look, even the devil can quote Scripture. The majority of Americans want the U.S. to play the role of honest broker in the IP conflict. The majority feel that we side far more with Israel than the other side. Go grapple w. that rather inconvenient poll finding.

      Ami says if Israel continues its current strategies, the “dream of a Jewish democratic home in the state of Israel” will be gone.

      Actually Ehud Olmert went farther & said that unless Israel ended the Occupation & resolved the conflict w. the Palestinians it would mean the end of the Jewish state. Another inconvenient fact unless you’re claiming Olmert is a flaming leftist.

      Israel’s current strategies led the state to survive 4 consecutive wars, but win all of them decisively

      I guess you’re leaving out the Lebanon war which wasn’t such a stellar victory, nor was the Gaza massacre.

      while capturing enemy-land 4x the size of its own state.

      Wow, you’re proud of the fact that Israel is a conquering power in contravention of international law. You’re proud of Israel as a colonial occupier. That’s a new one on me. I thought you’d at least make a pretence of saying how little Israel wants to own all that Arab land. But you’re proud of it.

      Ben-Ami’s shockingly refusal to call Israel a “Jewish state” is quite disturbing.

      That’s another lie. I read J St’s press releases & they have used the term “Jewish state” several times.

      J Street’s agenda resembles the “pro-peace” agenda, that Israel is a state where Jews are home to but it must leave plenty of room for a “Right of Return” for the Arab refugees – effectively creating a bi-national state.

      J St. has never made any statement in favor of the right of return nor is it likely ever to do so.

      Write this off as pro-Israel propaganda if you like

      We just did. But thanks for trying.

      Your contribution to this thread is officially over. You’ve written more than enough. You may participate in other threads. But if you attempt to post again to this thread it will not be published.

  8. “It [J Street] is “in line” with the interests of American Jewry.”

    It is more accurate to say that J Street represents itself as an alternative to the AIPAC lobby.

    American Jews do not have a monolithic point of view anymore than American atheists, American Catholics of American Hindus do.

    We American Jews certainly do not have a monolithic view toward Israel. It’s great that an alternative exists to AIPAC, an alternative which can get some small amount of notice.

    My own experience leads me to conclude that more and more Jews are questioning the morality of a Jewish state. This is the most hopeful sign I see.

  9. NotAFanatic:

    Ben-Ami also completely ignores the multi-faceted security relationship Israel has with the United States that ranges from missile defense (Arrow Missile System), intelligence sharing (revelation that Russian scientists were collaborating with the Iranian nuclear program 1 week ago), to dealing with terrorist threats from Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda etc.

    Ah, yes, the myth of Israel as a bulwark against international Islamic terrorism, ‘the canary in the coal mine’, etc. Israel defends herself against Islamist resistance groups Hamas and Hezbollah. Neither have ANYTHING to do with Al-Qaeda or bin-Laden. Israel has about as much useful information about the latter two as Belgium does, ferchrissakes! Probably less, actually.

    Regards your mentioning Russian scientists and Iran, be specific. Provide an authorative link or shut up.

    Ask the American people Silverstein, unlike you they see Israel as an ally.

    That’s because they’ve been lied to for decades now. The entire US MSM is about 100 % pro-Israel, everything published or broadcast is filtered through the lens of support for Israel. Even 9/11 has proven useful in that respect because it’s allowed Hasbara friendly US MSM outlets to create that highly untruthful linkage of Palestinians (Hamas but also Hesbollah) to Al-Qaeda and ‘Global Jihad’…

    Ask the American people Silverstein, unlike you they see Israel as an ally. A Gallup poll surveyed in August 2009 showed 58% of Americans expresses solidarity with Israel, while sympathy for the Palestinian agenda was less than ~9%.

    Ditto above. American Joe Sixpacks know very little about 1948, 1967 and the colonisation of the WB. The siege of Gaza. General treatment of Palestinians in the OTs. Almost nothing. That way it’s easy peasy to create sympathy for Israel.

    But that too, NotAFanatic, is changing slowly but surely. I bet sites like this one and Mondoweiss are seeing their traffic soar and grow everyday. One day Americans will wake up and say: ‘wir haben es nicht gewusst’. ‘But we do now!’

  10. Wow-AIPAC must have mystical powers. They even forced the Israeli government to do their bidding and not talk to J street. If I join AIPAC, will I get mystical powers?

    1. Being the neighborhood bully doesn’t endow you or Aipac w. mystical powers. All it requires is muscle. If you join Aipac you’ll be among friends, but alas bereft of special powers unless being a bully is counted as such.

      1. The Israeli government always backs down when it is conflict with American Zionist political economic oligarchs and their agents. Check out this Michael Oren’s article Zohan and the Quest for Jewish Utopia. Search for Blaustein. The pattern has not changed since the 50s, and it should be obvious who is the dog and who is the tail in this relationship.

        BTW, my blog entry Zohan Offends for One State in which I reference Oren’s article (through the Azure web site, which has turned off free access) seems to be quite popular academically and apparently was recently the topic of a seminar in ME identity at UC Berkeley.

  11. This overseas goy american has for many years been a kneejnerk defender of Israel on international flights, dinner parties, and in the most important and intimate conversations in my personal life. I will continue to be a defended or Israel, her right to exist and legitmancy as a nation.
    I worked very hard to help elect Barak Obama.
    I understand that there is a new settlement that bears his name. I am horrified. I am disgusted at the excess.
    I learn from your blog that Michael Oren will not attend the J street conference. Virtually I witnessed Michael Oren in his renunciation of US nationality to take up his post. I had hopes that he could help save this nightmare. Alas no.

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