22 thoughts on “David Hare and the Wall – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. “Strong measures” and “security” by any means necessary and at any cost. This disturbing article by Alex Sinclair from Haaretz actually has made my physically ill. The title, “This Seder night, spill some wine for Gaza’s dead”, lead me to think I was going to read about a drop of compassion for Gaza’s dead.

    Rather I read a gross justification for the murder of innocent civilians, for war crimes perhaps never seen before.
    In addition to the drops of wine that we spill in sadness at the necessary loss of Egyptian life 3,000 years ago, we must also spill a drop of wine in sadness at the necessary loss of Gazan life 3 months ago.

    To spill wine for Gazan life is not to deny the justness of the war, or to suggest that we should not do the same thing again when Israel’s security is threatened. Sadness over our enemies’ deaths need not come at the expense of our own convictions.

    It should remind us that, even if the war in Gaza was necessary, even if Palestinian civilian casualties were unavoidable, even if we will need to do it all over again in the future, we must never, never, feel joy at the death of our enemies. The ideal situation is one in which we are free and they don’t die: that is what we strive for.

    This Seder night, ..[we should] spill a drop of wine to mourn the Palestinian blood that we have spilled in order to keep ourselves free. Our humanity and our Judaism demand nothing less


    Necessary!.. Unavoidable…We will do it again….
    He talks about “humanity” and Judaism. People like him have hijacked Judaism and made me not even want to be Jewish, altho I’ll be damned if I let the likes of this cockroach drive me away.

    This point of view is sick. And representative of many Israelis: if it keeps us “safe” so be it, it is worth any price.

    1. I read that column & it made me so angry I almost wrote a post attacking it. It’s truly execrable. Just plain stupid. Perfect example of the liberal Jew who thinks that expressing sympathy for Palestinians absolves him of any further responsibility for the conflict.

  2. “though I believe Disraeli did not consider himself Jewish”

    Richard from Robert Blake’s biography of him I got the opposite impression. It is true that at age ten or eleven his father, who was in conflict with the local synagogue, got him baptized as an Anglican. This was crucial for his later career because as a Jew he couldn’t have joined the political establishment. He also married a non-Jewish (and rich) wife. But Blake stresses that one reason for Disraeli’s self confidence, when faced with the British aristocracy, was that, as a Jew, he felt or imagined to be the scion of a much older lineage than any of these aristocrats.

    I also remember a scene in the biography in which Disraeli invites either Lord George Bentinck, or a descendant of his, to dinner to bestow on him a notable favour – something to do with land, if I remember correctly. And when he announced that he said with “flashing eyes” that his race never forgot a wrong but always remembered a favour (George Bentinck had been his political ally when he badly needed one).

    In the world beyond Britain some notable figures saw him as a Jew as well. Bismarck apparently recognised an equal in political genius in him at the Congress of Berlin in 1878. “The old Jew, that is the Man.” he said.

    1. I find it astonishing, given Britain’s class & religious snobbery that a Jew could ever become prime minister, let alone so long ago. I wonder what his contemporaries made of his religious identity & whether they considered him Jewish or Anglican–and what he considered himself. If he & they both considered him Jewish then I’d say his career is remarkable just for that, let alone for his political greatness.

      1. In religious terms he was considered as an Anglican Christian – indeed if he had not been he would enver have become PM. But in ethnic terms he was considerd a Jew and he himself used it to great effect; putting on airs of a norble race to ingratiate himself with the English aristocracy.

        Spehardic Jews though had become ‘respectable’ and part of the estbalishment by this time; they were not regarded as detritus in the way that later Ashkenazi immigrants from Europe were in the 19th and 20th centuries. They of course faced discrimiantion – Hore-Belisha was an outstanding Secretary of War in the late 1930s who had a number of reforms for the Armed services and rearmamaent in mind as he was wary of a resurgent Germany but was removed at least in part because of anti-Semitism and the feeling that such a sensitive position could not be left with a Jew. Edwin Montagu, who instituted along with Lord Chelsmsford the early voting reforms for British India was also Jewish. He was also the only meber of the cabinet to vote against the British support for the Balfour Delcaration.

  3. Ellen, what this fellow was saying underlines the things Richard quoted from Hare – the sense of insecurity, the fragile self confidence in spite of that ‘fourth strongest army in the world’ we always hear about and all those nuclear warheads.

    People who imagine themselves to be threatened (however unrealistically in our eyes) feel justified in lashing out. That doesn’t make them ‘cockroaches’ (who prefer to scurry away) but rather unfeeling characters (didn’t somebody use the term ‘autism’?), very hard for the outside world to understand.

  4. “It’s like sticking someone in a cage and then when he starts screaming, as any normal person would, using his violent temper as justification for putting him in the cage in the first place. The wall is the perfect crime because it creates the violence it was ostensibly built to prevent.”

    I seem to remember almost daily suicide bombings prior to the wall. Now, there are none.
    Was it my imagination?

    1. What is interesting about the hasbara pro-Israel position is that it completely discounts the Palestinian role in the cessation of suicide attacks. There is a ceasefire with Hamas, or have you forgotten?

      Besides you are inaccurate in claiming about suicide attacks, “now there are none.” There was just one last week in Jerusalem.

      I don’t mind people who disagree with me, but if they could at least reflect reality instead of whatever delusion is in their head they’d be a lot more persuasive.

  5. I would like to note that Sayeret Matkal, the Israeli hit squad that Bibi used to belong to, never ever sacrificed one of its own in the cause. They never had the conviction, or the courage,.

    Remember that poor little bloody waiter in Norway? Wrong man, wrong time, but dead.

    I watched a few old Palestinian scholars being blown up, by this same bunch, in 1976.

    A suicidal teenager from Palestine, with his bomb around his waist, has more natural courage than the whole IDF or any of its parts, with their US-made helicopters, fighter jets, drones, etc. Most of the atrocities in Gaza were due to Israelis’ reluctance to die in defence of their cause.

    Tourists in Sderot would prefer to watch the massacre from a very safe viewpoint, 2 miles away.

    The ‘courageous Israelis’ are rank cowards, every one of them.

    1. I would like to note that Sayeret Matkal, the Israeli hit squad that Bibi used to belong to, never ever sacrificed one of its own in the cause

      Are you trying to say Sayeret Matkal never had casualties? Hm, why write something so wrong that can easily be refuted, Richard? It doesn’t help your cause.

    2. A suicidal teenager from Palestine, with his bomb around his waist, has more natural courage than the whole IDF or any of its parts

      How can you measure courage? And if two individuals are both willing to die for their causes & each of their actions violates fundamental moral values, what does ‘courage’ have to do w. anything? Why can’t we concede there is belief in one’s cause on both sides & courage on both sides & get on to something more fundamental like stopping the need for either side to exhibit such “courage,” through a peace agreement?

    1. Julian, the wall has very little or even nothing to do with the drop in the number of suicide bombings. This is easily deduced considering that thousands of Palestinians cross the wall into Israel each week, but was also claimed by none other than Shabak itself. See this, for example:

      The main reason for the sharp decline is the truce in the territories, the security service said yesterday.[…]
      The security fence is no longer mentioned as the major factor in preventing suicide bombings, mainly because the terrorists have found ways to bypass it. The fence does make it harder for them, but the flawed inspection procedures at its checkpoints, the gaps and uncompleted sections enable suicide bombers to enter Israel.

      Now, combined with the understanding that Shabak naturally has the tendency to embellish its achievements, I bet that the main reason that there are no suicide bombings still lies with the low motivation for such among the Palestinians.

  6. “What is interesting about the hasbara pro-Israel position is that it completely discounts the Palestinian role in the cessation of suicide attacks. There is a ceasefire with Hamas, or have you forgotten?”

    OK. Since 2003 long before any ceasefire there has been a severe reduction in terror attacks against Israel, but it’s got nothing to do with the separation fence. The statistics lie.
    “During the 34 months from the beginning of the violence in September 2000 until the construction of the first continuous segment of the security fence at the end of July 2003, Samaria-based terrorists carried out 73 attacks in which 293 Israelis were killed and 1950 wounded. In the 11 months between the erection of the first segment at the beginning of August 2003 and the end of June 2004, only three attacks were successful, and all three occurred in the first half of 2003.”

    1. You’re talking about SIX YEARS AGO, a lifetime in I-P context. Peter D is indeed correct about the Wall having little or no impact on terror attacks. I have numerous photos at this site of scores of Palestinians climbing over, under, and around the Wall at numerous pts. It is a sieve and easy to penetrate if you have the will to do so. The fact that there are so few terror attacks originating in the Territories is due to Fatah’s desire to stop them & Hamas’ adherence to a ceasefire.

      Don’t quote propaganda sites as sources here. They have no credibility. That includes Jewish Virtual Library compiled by a former Aipac staffer.

  7. “Palestinian role in the cessation of suicide attacks”

    What in the name of Marx are you talking about? Every single Moslem, in “Palestine”, Britain, the United States, and Europe wants to kill herself to create a left-wing Judenrein Nazislamic Khalifa. The only reason why Jews are not dying is because the donkeys are being kept home in their cages. And this disturbs you.

    Because, like a good liberal, you love to see Jews killed, and revel in the death of innocent children, this bothers you.

    1. Whoa, that’s the problem with approving a single comment from one of these nutcase Islamophobes merely to exhibit their wingnuttery. By approving the comment I gave him leave to publish more bile. So to Canadian Muslim-hater: you’ve violated a few of my comment rules which you prob. can’t be bothered to read anyway. Yr comment privileges here have been revoked. But Daniel Pipes, David Horowitz and Nadia Matar would love for you to spend more time with them & I urge to go somewhere more conducive to your disgusting views.

  8. ‘He is willing to criticize both sides and appreciate that moral weakness and bad judgment is not a monopoly owned solely by Israel or Palestine.’

    Sorry but this is laughable! It makes it seem both sides are evenly balanced or evenly guilty? Harold Pinter was more accurate in his assessment. How can the palestinian resistance be said to be on par with the massively funded and media/hollywood supported israel jewish state???
    But at least Hare has exposed the obvious: that the palestinians are treated like concentration camp inmates, by those who like to play the victim. Perhaps that will filter slowly into the public consciousnes and help put an end to the jewish state project.

  9. ‘On the wall, in this decaying spot, the only new thing: a bright gleaming poster of Saddam Hussein.

    It’s one of those moments. I know as soon as I look I’m never going to forget. How do you react to that? If you were going to choose a hero, could you choose a worse? If you were going to choose a future, could you so completely misconceive it? If you were going to choose a leader to take you precisely nowhere, could you do better than Saddam Hussein?…You choose as your poster boy someone who has done the world, and the Arab world above all, nothing but harm. The master of mass graves and untold massacres’

    Saddam is one of those leaders for better or worse is misunderstood. What is quite clear is that under him Iraq had a better society than its had since, with women in govt, and agood education.
    Then theres the Halabja incident, which he has often been blamed for….but there is an alterative view:

    ‘The fabricated story continues today to justify the many atrocities committed by the US and its allies against the Iraqi people. There was not a single credible evidence to prove that Iraqi troops were in Halabja that day, and that Iraq was responsible for the chemical attacks on the town. Iraqi troops evacuated the town few days before the Iranian attacks, and eventual occupation of the town by Iranian troops.Immediately after the attacks, the US Defence Intelligence Agency (USDIA) investigated and produced a “classified” report that showed clearly that it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds, not Iraqi gas.’

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