42 thoughts on “Stop Lieberman, Sign the Petition – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. “our Israeli brothers and sisters”
    So all of sudden we are family,Richard?

    It is unlikely that Lieberman will be excluded. He is secular and Ashkenazi, just like you-why all of the fuss?

    1. So all of sudden we are family,Richard?

      What narische snark. I’ve always called myself a progressive Zionist. That means that I consider Israel part of the Jewish (hence, my) family. Rather, it is rightists who disown me as legitimately Jewish. So you’ve got it precisely wrong as usual.

      1. Nili/Richard,

        On the question of “brothers and sisters”, I like to think that we are all part of the same family irrespective of ethnicity for indeed the heritage of Adam and Eve belongs to everyone, Jew and “goyim” alike.

        We are only better for what is within us and the values we uphold and surely not pegged from our genealogical makeup.

        Our differences exist without doubt but only so that we may learn from each other and to make this world a truly haven for all of humanity.

        And judging from the exchanges that takes place in Tikun Olam, it does appear that this is indeed happening.

  2. Why try to “ban” Lieberman and his party when most other parties have exactly the same political aims in relation to the Palestinian question as Lieberman. Lieberman’s party at least says directly things that others support but dare not to say in public. Let’s remember that also Likud has demanded a loyalty test and also Livni has been speaking about Israeli Arabs need to “choose”.

    Lieberman’s and the right wings’ success is the “best” thing that has happened for Israeli Arabs and Palestinians during the last decade. Finally the Israeli Jewish racism is free to everybody to see, racism that Israel has relative successfully managed to hide for decades.

    Maybe Palestinians should start a petition “Let Lieberman govern, so to world will see what Israel in reality wants and what it has become”. In the end Israel’s and Zionism’s “image problem” is not Lieberman, it is the whole present “packet”.

    1. Perhaps it’ll satisfy those Palestinians who would rather live in Dixie than the Yankee North, but you know this’ll spell the end of Israel, right?

      I’d rather Israel’s racism be behind a veneer that have its ugliness out in the open. Call me crazy, but I think this is a case where racism under wraps is easier addressed than open racism. At least there won’t be open retaliation in the former.

  3. Maybe it’s important to make a statement against Lieberman’s hate-mongering, but practically speaking Lieberman will be a central player in the next government. And given the election results, I’d prefer to see a Kadima-Lieberman-Likud government than a Likud-National Union-Shas-Jewish Home government. Both governments would include anti-Arab demogogues, but the former would have the potential for promoting the interests of Israel’s secular majority and would still advocate (in words at least) a two-state solution.

  4. this man is horrifying… almost tempted to hope he runs rampant though… to expose the horrible state of the peace process… signed the petition though…

  5. LD–Not most Israelis, but many. It’s so sad to see that this is the case, that many Israelis advocate Lieberman’s views, there is a malignant cancer in the souls of these people, and it does not bode well for them or for Israel.

  6. “What narische snark.”
    I don’t speak German on principle.

    “I’ve always called myself a progressive Zionist.”
    What are you progressing into exactly? Most of my Jewish friends in the USA are progressing into Christians.

    “part of the Jewish (hence, my) family.”
    Do you attack your family like you do Israel? If you did the authorities would take custody of your kids away from you!

    1. I don’t speak German on principle.

      It’s Yiddish you dolt. Or do you object to Yiddish on principle because it’s associated with the Jewish Diaspora.

      Most of my Jewish friends in the USA are progressing into Christians.

      Then you’re hangin’ out with the wrong crowd. Judaism is doing quite well in the circles I frequent.

      Do you attack your family like you do Israel? If you did the authorities would take custody of your kids away from you!

      Thank God my children have never attempted a targeted assassination on any of their schoolmates or friends. If they did, I’d be almost as harsh with them as I am with Israel.

  7. Why do you consider all Jews your family? What is that even supposed to mean? Isn’t Lieberman part of your family then? Isn’t that guy who shot up a mosque in Palestine in 94′ a member of your family?

    We’re human beings first. We’re part of the human family first. Your identity is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    You choose to be a Jew. Jewishness is not thrust upon you. We don’t live in that era anymore.

    In this era Arab identity or Muslim identity is thrust upon you (not you, but in general those people who ‘look’ a certain way or are Arab/Muslim).

    Best example is that right after 9/11, a bunch of racist attacks on people with brown skin took place. I recall one person even died. Some idiot redneck SOB murdered a SIKH! The racist/bigot piece of shit first got it in his head that all Arabs/Muslims deserved to die. Then the racist/bigot piece of shit decided that any person with brown skin would do. Then he decided that a person with brown skin and a turban was close enough.

    So what of this Jewish ‘family’? Does that mean you prohibit any criticism? Any introspection? Does that mean you restrain yourself when a Jew is a criminal or engaging in criminal behavior?

    Identity politics are so fucking stupid and cause more problems than solutions.

    Jews are the most powerful minority in the strongest country in the world. They undoubtedly have the strongest influence in American politics and the American intellectual culture, whether it be via the news or movie industry.

    And what does your Jewish family do with this power and privilege? They use it to obscure the debate on Israel-Palestine. They use it to espouse racism against Arabs and prejudice against Muslims.

    Will we EVER see a movie about Israeli tyranny in the Occupied Territories in the mainstream? A movie. Will we ever see Palestinians portrayed as something more than a monolith?

    This Jewish family is destroying working towards destroying an entire people and an entire religion.

    The sanctimony and the shamelessness on the part of Jews everywhere will cause suffering to everyone around them.

    Everything you people have done will never be forgotten. History will not simply END with the outcome of the I-P conflict or the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The victims of American ‘democracy’ and Jewish exceptionalism will NEVER forget and NEVER forgive.

    May God be with them.

    1. *sigh*… as long as I’m identified by “the other”, or to use a brasher term, “der goyim”, as a Jew. I’m going to identify as a Jew, with all other Jews who not only self-identify as Jews, but also are identified by others as Jews.

      Let’s not forget our common heritage steeped in the Word of God. Even those who don’t live up to that standard are in.

      And THAT, my friend, is why I (and perhaps Richard though I don’t speak for him) feel that the Jews in Israel are family.

    2. And furthermore, best friends don’t allow best friends to engage in crime and other unethical lifestyles. Family? All the more so.

      All the more reason that we criticize WITHIN the family. Now tell me – just because I am identified as a Jew, do you blame ME for the crimes of Israel?

      Are you saying that we can exist as individuals and choose to be Jewish or whatever… and yet “da Jooz” can ONLY exist in some single-minded amorphous collective free of self-criticism?

  8. Unfortunately, I think a petition might not be the best way to go about this. Lieberman is very much a product of the general racism and discriminatory policies towards the Arabs practised by the Israeli state and rooted in Israeli society. It hasn’t been very different from the beginnings of Zionism if you read the personal accounts of the early settlers. Their conceptions of the Arabs was frankly racist and deeply steeped in Orientalist prejudices. There are countervailing trends in Zionism but they have always been weaker and secondary. To acheive real change you will need a grassroots social movement that will change the fundamental way people think about each other. Isolating Libermann will only be addressing the symptoms of the deeper problem as it will be no real effort for another political antrepreneur to come along and gain political mileage by stoking the same anti-Arab racism.

    A final sustainable and viable settlement with the Palestinians would obviously help immensely here.

    On a last note, I am bemused at all this talk of Jewishness and coded appeals for loyalty; from the Atlantic article cited it is very clear that a major motivating factor behind Liebermann and many of the his Russian supporters is the displaced resentment they feel at not being fully accepted within mainstream Israeli society being accorded the status they desire.

  9. @Richard
    “Thank God my children have never attempted a targeted assassination”

    Unfortunately some Arabs have done many targeted murders of Israelis, which you never describe (ever).

    1. Death is death, but the last time a Jew was specifically targeted for assassination by an Arab was Kahane. And not from any government actor, but by a criminal acting on his own behalf. Since when has Nasrallah and Haniyeh sent assassins towards Olmert (not that you would mind)?

  10. @B.BarNavi

    “Call me crazy,”
    How about ignorant? Have you ever been to Israel B.BarNavi?

    “best friends don’t allow best friends to engage in crime and other unethical lifestyles.”
    The best friends thing sounds like the Brady Bunch, not Judaism. Speaking of Judaism-breaking shabbat, kashrut, and stealing (Madoff) is also unethical. Tell that to your buddies over there! When will you understand that Israel has a right to defend itself? Where were you humanists in the USA (I assume) when Jews were being slaughtered in Europe? Nowhere to be found.

    “some single-minded amorphous collective free of self-criticism?”
    Kind of like Jews in hutz l-aretz? Assimilation? (nope) Jewish illiteracy? (nope) Talking about hypocrisy! (yep)

    Sharansky is out of the picture because he never really blended into the scene here. He served his role in the Russian aliyah. He definitely didn’t help Israel by helping to bring 500,000-700,000 non-Jews into Israel, some of whom are skinheads. Now he is living with the wealthy Anglos in Katamon, not with “downtrodden Russians.”

    1. What have Nili the events in Europe in the 30’s and 40’s to do with the present days Israeli racisms’ and occupation’s consequences for Palestinians? As much as extreme Christians have the right to blame today’s Jews for killing Jesus.

      I see it somewhat amusing how you Israelis and pro-Israelis are constantly demanding others to have morality with the events against Jews in the past but you are denying any moral critics against “your” own actions today. Well that your Holocaust tactics has little effect nowadays.

      Surely the inhuman and aggressive behaviour of Israel reflects to all Jews around the world. So all Jews and others have the full right to criticize Israel. If the Jews in great numbers would not fiercely criticize Israel’s bad behaviour the world would have some “basis” to blame all Jews and Judaism.

      1. “If the Jews in great numbers would not fiercely criticize Israel’s bad behaviour the world would have some “basis” to blame all Jews and Judaism.”

        No they don’t. I thought collective punishment was a BAD thing?

    2. BTW, I HAVE been to E”Y thankyouverymuch. Not long enough, but I can’t afford to return anytime soon.

      “Speaking of Judaism-breaking shabbat, kashrut, and stealing (Madoff) is also unethical. Tell that to your buddies over there!”
      … except I HAVE? The actions of Madoff are on proportion with the Olmertian corruption in Israel, but Shabbat and kashrut are of personal choice. That I choose to keep Shabbat and kosher doesn’t affect my neighbors. Besides, this tu quoque argument is useless. The presence of Jewish criminals in Hu”L doesn’t mitigate the severity of Jewish criminals in E”Y.

      And I can’t be responsible for American blindness to the Holocaust in the 30s and 40s…. BECAUSE I HAD YET TO BE BORN FOR ANOTHER FORTY YEARS. You are asking me to be responsible for things that I had no control over.

  11. Why didn’t these Professors make a petition when Lieberman was a member of the outgoing coalition that includes the Labor Party and Kadima? He advocated all the same policies then.

    1. What drives me nuts is right wing commenters like you who either don’t’ remember that they’ve asked precisely the same question before (& only a few days ago at that) & had it rebutted. Or if you do remember then you’re deliberately repeating yrself, which is even worse. ONce I’ve refuted you I don’t waste my time doing it again. Could you show the rest of us enough respect to keep better track of what you write here & NOT repeat yrself.

  12. Every new Holocaust Memorial that pops up these days is not about remembrance and honoring the dead. It’s about guilt-tripping the goyim so they support Israel and whatever the Jewish tribe does these days.

    Just like every movie that portrays Arabs and Muslims as only terrorists and Jews as only victims or heroes.

    We’ve had this game going on when we call a person we dislike, Hitler or a Nazi. We call them Hitler and then we mobolize the public to war. The Hitler or Nazi card is, like the Holocaust and antisemitism, an ideological weapon to bludgeon an enemy of the State with.

    None of these things have meaning anymore. Jews are as hated as ever. And it’s not irrational hatred. It’s because of what you DO.

    You steal peoples land and resources. You lie and cheat people out of their life savings. You create propaganda and preach hatred towards an entire people of nearly 2 billion. You lie and lie and lie.

    There’s even a new movie coming out called Inglorious Bastards that is SO disgusting that it makes you feel sympathetic for Nazis. It’s a movie where a bunch of Jews led by an American soldier go scalping ‘Germans’ (in the trailer there is no distinction made). It’s a typical Tarantino film.

    This comes right after the Gaza massacre when Jews killed over 1300 people in THREE WEEKS. After Jews killed 500 CHILDREN in 3 weeks.

    Will we ever see a mainstream movie about Israeli monsters? No, because Arabs and Muslims are the enemy of the State and Jews are eternal victims who can do no wrong.

    Disgusting.

    1. I don’t think B. BarNavi is an idiot. On the contrary.

      And I’d like to maintain a distinction between “Jews” and “Israel.” “Jews” are not stealing Palestinian land. Israel is. THere is a difference. Not all Jews are Zionists and even those who are who live in the Diaspora like myself don’t necessarily have to do expiation for every sin of Israel. So don’t put us in that position.

  13. I don’t mean literally every single Jew. I mean virtually every single Jew. Virtually = for all practical purposes.

    Zionism is not Judaism. I know this, but to imply that Jews do not support Israel’s policies is a fantasy.

    90% of Israeli Jews supported the Gaza massacre.

    In our country (USA), what perspective do we have? The JEWISH perspective.

    I’m 24. I remember being young and hating all forms of racism and especially antisemitism. I remember thinking it was a good idea we went into Iraq because ‘Saddam was one of the bad guys.’ He was but that sort of thinking explained my naivete.

    After I read more and more about the middle east. The history of the Ottoman Empire and the fall and subsequent colonial period. The corrupt dictators and puppet regimes. The imperialism and coups orchestrated by our government, etc.

    Your eyes begin to open and you don’t see the world as a Hollywood movie would depict it as.

    You become so bitter and distrusting of your government.

    Anyways, back to ‘da joos’. The occupation and apartheid is a Jewish project. Yes, it’s Zionism and blah blah but a bunch of people just support Israel because it’s the JEWISH STATE. They may not know the first thing about Zionism and the history of the middle east or the history of the Zionist movement.

    They may refuse to believe that their people (Jews) have the strongest influence of any minority on the foreign policy of the strongest country in the world.

    They may refuse to believe that their perspective, the JEWISH perspective, is inundated in our media and entertainment industry.

    I mean, how often will we ever see a portrayal of Israel in a mainstream Hollywood film as most of the WORLD see it in REALITY?

    NEVER. WHY? Because Jewish influence is everywhere.

    It’s fucking stupid to say Jews ‘CONTROL HOLLYWOOD’ or the government. No, they don’t CONTROL it. But they have the strongest influence and the essentially run it by proxy.

    Being politically correct is self-destructive when the stakes are THIS HIGH.

    We are watching an entire people getting wiped out and ethnically cleansed. Whether it’s the 5 million who fled Iraq during the American invasion or the 40% of Gazans who said they’d like to leave Gaza – a poll taken BEFORE Israel’s massacre.

    This is good ole’ fashion conquest. Good ole’ fashion pillage.

    We are the bad guys. Not the Muslims. Not the Arabs. WE ARE.

    We are the ones who invaded their land. We are the ones who supplanted their democracies with our preferred puppets. We are the ones who instigate terrorism.

    We’re hypocrites. And Israel is a CARICATURE of us. They are ultra overtly sanctimonious. It’s a fucking cartoon over there.

    And no one does a goddamn thing about it. You want Palestinians to find a Gandhi? What makes you think Israel deserves Gandhian resistance?

    Israelis support the Gaza massacre by 90%.

    Not only that, but we ALL know Israeli Arabs are second-class citizens in Israel proper. We all know that Arabs are viewed as animals. Are treated as animals.

    This article from YNet, says it all:

    http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3381978,00.html

    I have nothing left to say.

    The only reason Jews can get away with crime after crime is the cottage industry of the Holocaust. The playing of the Nazi/Hitler card to guilt-trip cowardly goyim and opportunistic politicians and intellectuals. The massive economic aide from rich and morally bankrupt Jews as well as the American government.

    But in the end, how can we just blame the Jews? It’s the legacy of the United States that we’re seeing in the ME.

    We exterminated an entire people to make America. The British were the leading colonizers and oppressors before us.

    We as individuals are not bad people. There is no correlation between OUR domestic prosperity (OUR ‘sense’ of it, ie our little bubble we live in) and our country’s EXTERNAL behavior.

    Which is why it SICKENS me why Israeli Jews can have anything other to talk about activism-wise than what’s going on in their backyard. I say THEIR as in from their perspective. It’s all Palestinian land. It will always be Palestine. Israel is a point of view. Palestine is the reality.

    FUCK Zionism.

    1. A couple of points; firstly the discourse on the Holocaust was very repressed until the 1960s, in fact talking about it a lot was actively discouraged and politically frowned upon for a number of reasons. In the US, especially, this was the case due to the Cold War and to the latent anti-Semitism of the time.

      Secondly, while there have been numerous Holocaust films and also relatively positive portrayal of Jews in much of American and Western cinema; one fact overlooked is that portrayal of Israelis is actually much more negative. Generally speaking they are usually depicted as cold-blooded killers and assassins, gunmen or spies. Only recently has this trend been somewhat broken by films like Munich and Zohan (ugh!). Some like the conspiracy thriller Homocide, come close to representing traditional anti-Semitic stereotypes of Israelis.

      I would suggest you either consult Finkelstein or Peter Novick who map out thoroughly the changing represenations of the Holocaust in popular media in the US.

      Associating Jews per se with Israeli policy or the Israeli state, is actually a tenet of Zionism which you profess to dislike and is no more valid than blaming Muslims for the various actions carried out by their states or individuals claiming to represent some sort of global Muslim community.

  14. You’re absolutely right.

    But my point is that most American Jews (the only ones that matter really) support Israel.

    I don’t recall any substantial amount of noteworthy mainstream films that have portrayed Israel negatively. Or Jews even.

    My point is that we don’t have a serious discussion about the Jewish identity as a sociological entity.

    I don’t want to imply that a Jew is born a Jew and thus, will behave a certain way.

    What is a Jew anyways? Can we define it without using other arbitrary labels? I would apply that to any other ‘group’.

    So when I say ‘Jew’, I don’t want to imply that a ‘Jew’ is genetically predetermined to behave a certain way.

    I think of the group, as with all ‘groups’, as a sociological entity. A self-fulfilling prophecy.

    We can choose our identity. People even change their sex!

    Now with Jews, I do believe that that identity can be thrust upon you (if you’re of Jewish descent; ethno-religiously speaking) by a racist. I’m sure I probably sounded like that in my last post too.

    I don’t know what I am at this point in relation to Jews. It’s sort of an amazing transformation it’s been since high school. I went to one of the best private schools on the east coast. My politics were non-existent. I played Lacrosse and blah blah. It was a great time basically. I opened my mind in college.

    So, I have no reason to dislike any group. I’m privileged and have no personal experience with a group that might have caused me to conflate with the whole/etc.

    Anyways, I don’t know what to think at this point. I still think that the Jewish perspective is prevalent all throughout our media and Hollywood. I think it’s just silly to dismiss this fact.

    There was a book released awhile back about portrayals of Arabs and Muslims in American film. The book’s findings were not shocking at all. Mostly negative. From Aladin to Iron Eagle to 24.

    I’d love to see a movie where the politically incorrect perspective of American Jewry is observed. Or when the politically incorrect perspective of Israelis and the IDF is observed.

    One of the biggest fallacies that is inundated in the peace movements and the ongoing debate is that Israelis are victims to their government.

    What a load of shit. Israelis have to serve in the army first of all. They are groomed to hate Arabs and that YNet article as well as countless other surveying SHOWS that Israeli Jews are not only fascistic towards Arabs but obviously racist and ethnocentric.

    German nationalism with the idea of a pure Aryan race has been replaced with Jewish nationalism (Zionism) with the idea of a pure Jewish “race” (Jews are not a race IMO).

    And once again, this has nothing to do with right or wrong. It’s all about money and guns and who’s in with the most powerful bully on the block – the US.

    American sanctimony (Manifest Destiny) and Jewish sanctimony (Zionism) are the greatest threats to the stability of the ME and to the lives of millions of people there. Not some cave dwelling coward, if he’s even ALIVE at this point.

    And just a matter of logistics here. Jews are how much of the world population? And when we say Jews, we don’t mean Arab Jews or Spanish Jews or whatever. We mean Euro-American Jews. Or even Russian Jews.

    Those groups of Jews are the ones that are relevant. Arabs are over 800K – 1 billion. Muslims are almost 2 billion. I think most Muslims are not even Arab.

    So I’m much more hesitant to conflate a fringe group of terrorists who are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction with the whole of 2 billion+ people.

    Whereas American diaspora Jews are undoubtedly the most privileged and wealthy minority in the US and their affluence and influence is unquestioned. Can you say the same for Arabs? The ME is a poor region. The Arab regimes are corrupt and the oil sheiks don’t take care of their people. I don’t think we can compare these groups at all.

    1. LD, you said

      I remember thinking it was a good idea we went into Iraq because ‘Saddam was one of the bad guys.’ He was but that sort of thinking explained my naivete.
      After I read more and more about the middle east. The history of the Ottoman Empire and the fall and subsequent colonial period. The corrupt dictators and puppet regimes. The imperialism and coups orchestrated by our government, etc.

      So, you admit that, until you went out of your way and educated yourself, you had some views that you now consider disgusting. Do you grant this could be the problem of other people? Most American Jews, for example?

    2. I think you are coming dangerously close to a form of racism here. Many Jews do no support Israeli policies and most would like a negotiated settlement, this goes for American Jews – who are notoriously more liberal than the leadership of American Jewish organisations – as well as Israeli Jews.

      Of course many American and diaspora Jews feel a connection with Israel – it is the same with the Palestinians, Armenians and Tamils. This is a natural phenomenon for many diasporic communities, just that becuase of the salience of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the Jewish diaspora comes under greater scrutiny.

      Those groups of Jews are the ones that are relevant. Arabs are over 800K – 1 billion. Muslims are almost 2 billion. I think most Muslims are not even Arab.

      Yes, most Muslims are not Arabs and I can tell you from personal experience that most Muslims in places like India and Indonesia are not very concerned with what happens in the Middle east except at an extremely superficial level. They are more concerned with local and domestic issues.

      So I’m much more hesitant to conflate a fringe group of terrorists who are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction with the whole of 2 billion+ people.

      The number of Jews would be higher than you think, since many may not be formally recorded as Jews, due to inter-marriage and assimilation. But not all Muslims are that obssessed with Palestine and we are talking about justice and rights here – just as might does not make right, neither does the preponderance of numbers.

      Whereas American diaspora Jews are undoubtedly the most privileged and wealthy minority in the US and their affluence and influence is unquestioned. Can you say the same for Arabs? The ME is a poor region.

      No but other communities are getting there quickly like the Indians. This is a function of the pattern of immigration and racial discrimination in the US; so should be kept distinct from questions of middle eastern politics imo

  15. @Peter D

    You’re right. I’m not applying to American Jews and people who undergo an ‘awakening’ in general, the same standard that I exuded.

    But, I think my situation has 1 caveat. I was young (well, younger).

    I think my ‘awakening’ was a natural progression in our culture and society (going to college/blah blah blah) rather than some unique transformation. I’m not Spider-man here. I wasn’t bit by a radioactive spider.

    @Lazynative

    Nah, I’ll admit it. I have very racist moments where I just can’t stand what’s going on in Palestine. It incite a hatred of Jews. I wouldn’t say it’s antisemitism akin to the Elders of Zion conspiracy.

    More like, I hate the sanctimony. Like this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAcDoEETBdM&eurl=http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2702

    That was supposed to be a vigil for the Palestinian children who died during the massacre.

    That Jewish group not only interrupted the moment of silence for the dead, but also had a COUNTER-moment-of-silence.

    Only, they read a composite list of dead Israeli children. So they had a list of all the kids killed since 2000.

    It’s just fucking zany. I don’t get how people can be so fantastically SELFISH and shameless.

    How can you have a counter-vigil? And in doing so, by reading the names of ALL the Israeli kids to somehow TRUMP the number of Palestinian kids killed in THREE FUCKING WEEKS?

    It’s sickening.

    I don’t buy into the Jews run the world stuff. I’m being real about it though. Jews have the most influence out of any ethnic group. Our country facilitates identity politics and Jews are happy to oblige.

  16. There is collusion between Jewish interests and our foreign policy. So our leaders think keeping Israel as a military base and attack dog is a good thing. So do Jews.

    Jews undoubtedly have THE strongest influence in Hollywood and essentially ‘run’ it. And again, Jews as a sociological entity. A group with some semblance of a ‘shared identity’.

    I mean, it doesn’t have be about Judaism. It could be the Holocaust or the years of persecution that bind Jews together. In any case, there is this ‘Jewish’ family.

    It’s sort of like the military industrial complex. Do we know WHAT it is? I mean, is it a person? Is it a building? No. It’s an abstraction. Similar to the ‘Israel Lobby’. It’s a collective of people with common interests who actively work toward preserving and expanding said interests.

    Jews as a political entity. I don’t think all Jews are this robotic and monolithic. I do think all those pro-Israel groups are though. They utter the same idiotic propaganda. Their is no nuance or meaningfulness in their argument. It’s just knee-jerk, superficial, emotional language. It’s meant to procure to the support of the dumb fucking sheep that make up the majority of the US.

    I don’t think I even have a point at this point. I’m just angry. I’m sick of seeing movies about the Holocaust and about Nazis when Israelis are butchering a virtually defenseless people.

    I’m sick of seeing Jews talk about this conflict as if it’s symmetrical. When it’s NOT.

    It’s the dishonest and the hypocrisy. That’s the most unbearable part of all this. I mean, if I were a Palestinian or an Arab living in Iraq or Afghanistan I’d become a terrorist. How the FUCK do you expect to live your life when there’s all these people with their hands ALL OVER you? 41 years of occupation. I’m 24. So practically 20 more years. I can’t fucking believe that.

    And now those fascist pigs are increasing the settlements?

    Fuck em’.

  17. I would say that ideological approaches to issues like the Holocaust are played out the way they are partly because they fulfill certain needs – after all as I am constantly reminded by American colleagues, it serves to show the supposed moral bankruptcy of Europe and bolsters America and American images of the US as a moral force in the world. You won’t get many blockbusters about US policy towards the Native Americans.

    Your outrage is understandable but I think the last thing this issue needs is more angry people contributing to it.

  18. Well, hey, that’s what the internet is for! Anonymous ranting!

    I’m not an angry person IRL. I mean, I’m frustrated. I can’t imagine what it must be like for an Iraqi or Afghan or Palestinian.

    I also wouldn’t do anything to hurt a Jew or any group I have residual anti-Jewish opinions of. I don’t even consider myself a bigot but I do have views that would easily be considered politically incorrect.

    I know it’s lame to say: ‘I’m not racist, I have friends that are [insert race or group here]’, but I do and I’ve dated a Jewish girl before. I don’t mention those relationships as credibility but as a way of expressing the disconnect between my – possibly monolithic – political perception of the Jewish people from afar and my personal/intimate experiences with Jews.

    So I think it’s a complex inner struggle. I’m new to all this still.

  19. Chutzpan, how about butting out of our politics? As someone who does not live in Israel, you shouldn’t have any say whatsoever to influence the composition of our government.

    1. As someone who does not live in Israel, you shouldn’t have any say whatsoever to influence the composition of our government.

      Ah yes, but you’re only too happy to take that $3 billion my government offers you ea. yr. Not to mention the weapons systems and the carte blanche support of the American Jewish Israel lobby. I’ll tell you what–when you can wean yrself off all those U.S. “substance abuse” problems you seem to have then I’ll stop “meddling” in Israeli politics.

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