A few follow up thoughts on my reporting of the Raphael Shore/Obsession mini-scandal. Thanks to reader Robin, who asked what an “Israeli-Canadian” is doing trying to throw a U.S. presidential election? What does the Israeli government think of one of its citizens attempting to insert himself into the U.S. presidential politics on behalf of one party’s candidate? If I were Tzipi Livni this would cause me some concern as the nation’s foreign minister. In fact, if I worked for the Obama campaign I think I might make a discrete phone call to the Israeli embassy to ask them a question or two about Shore’s activities and whether they have the approval of the Israeli government.
Robin also notes an interesting interview Haaretz did with Shore’s brother, Hollywood writer David Shore, who created the Fox medical drama, Dr. House. She notes that David almost gives us a set of cue cards allowing us to parse brother Raphael’s behavior:
Q: One of the key phrases used in the show is “everybody lies.” House says it a lot. That’s a very pessimistic view for network TV in America.
A. “Again, I didn’t expect it to be this popular. I wrote that line in the pilot; it was just another line in the script. And then as we were doing the pilot, actually filming it, it suddenly became, obviously, … the defining thing about the show. And it’s not as pessimistic as it sounds. It’s more that everybody has secrets, and everybody sees the world their own way. It’s really a line that speaks to this character’s pursuit of truth. And that truth doesn’t come from just asking a person a question and getting an answer. Truth comes from digging deeper and finding out what’s behind that answer and what that answer really means. And even when a person’s not consciously lying, they are seeing a version of the world that may not be exactly the real version of the world. This character wants to find out the ultimate truth.”
Robin expands with her own commentary on the connection between David Shore’s insight into human behavior and Raphael Shore’s duplicitousness:
Considering the shadowiness of the Clarion Fund, it’s statement that “[producers Peter] Meir” and [Brett] “Halperin” are aliases, it’s refusal to state where the donations–in particular the sugar daddy donation for the mass mailing come from–I find David’s statement “everybody lies”, [and his contention] that truth [is] a matter of perception shrouded in personal secrets very illuminating…Don’t just ask questions, dig deeper, get at the answer and what the answer really means.
Indeed, so true in the case of the mass distribution of “Obsession”, who ALL is behind it, and what is their goal?
And on a related matter, there are other pro-McCain smearmeisters doing their damnedest among the Jewish electorate to throw the election. This report is from No Blood for Hubris:
Key West resident Joelna Marcus received a phone call today. She was asked if she is Jewish, and she replied in the affirmative.
She was asked if she was religious.
She was then asked if her opinion of Barack Obama would change if she knew that Obama had given lots and lots of money to the PLO.
Sounds like…John McCain’s Smear-Talk Express, not unlike Ol’ Man River, just keeps rollin’ along.
—-
Update: Another FL voter (from Gainesville) has revealed he too received a similar push-poll call.
Ben Smith gives an account of a larger number of these calls spread over a larger geographical area:
Debbie Minden of Pittsburgh described receiving the call from “Research Strategies” late yesterday afternoon…
The caller asked, as she recalled: “Would it change your mind about Obama if you knew that his church was anti-Israel? Would it change you rmind if you knew that the leaders Hamas had endorsed Obama? Would it change your mind if you knew he had met with the leaders of Hamas?”
She also said one question asked whether it would change her mind if she learned he were a Muslim…
One of Smith’s astute commenters notes that Research Strategies is none other than Wilson Research Strategies, whose founder is Chris Wilson. Wilson is a top Republican consultant and friend of, you guessed it, Karl Rove:
Rove…is a longtime friend of Oklahoma City pollster…Chris Wilson of Wilson Research Strategies; the two worked together in Austin, Texas in the mid-1990s when Wilson was executive director of the Texas Republican Party and President Bush was governor of Texas.
Amazing, a little bit of blog sleuthing leads this filth right to the door of the Republican party. I hope Smith is calling Wilson as I write this to ask about his involvement in the push polling. And then he should be calling McCain’s campaign to ask if this is the type of “support” he wants or needs from his fellow Republicans.
Returing to Smith’s report, he notes the widespead geographic reach of the Jewish push-polling:
Jewish readers in New Jersey and Philadelphia report getting the call, as did The New Republic’s Jonathan Cohn, who took notes, and lists the negative messages:
Obama has had a decade long relationship with pro-Palestinian leaders in Chicago
the leader of Hamas, Ahmed Yousef, expressed support for Obama and his hope for Obama’s victory
the church Barack Obama has attended is known for its anti-Israel and anti-American remarks
Jimmy Carter’s anti-Israel national security advisor is one of Barack Obama’s foreign policy advisors
Barack Obama was the member of a board (sic) that funded a pro-Palestinian chartiable organization
Barack Obama called for holding a summit of Muslim nations excluding Israel if elected president
Regarding the last smear on the list: one wonders why anyone would think Israel should attend a “summit of Muslim nations.” But critiquing the rhetoric of these individual statements seems almost a waste of time when the root of the enterprise itself is as dirty as they come.
Cohn reports that his call came from a company called Central Marketing, which has done push polls on behalf of the campaigns of Republicans John Thune and Michael Bloomberg.
The calls are clearly designed to suppress Jewish turnout for Obama. If they can reduce the number of Jewish Obama voters by a few percentage points in key swing states, they figure they strengthen their chances of winning.
The way these things work the candidate has plausible deniability because the calls aren’t made by the campaign. They’re made by some sleazy operation operating on McCain’s behalf, but not directly affiliated with him. This is American presidential politics at its most disgusting. Will McCain be made to pay a price for it?
So what else is new? The Guardian contacted voters in Ohio before the 2004 election trying to raise votes for Kerry. Obama has received contributions from Gaza http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/obamas-gazan-co.html
Lots of foreigners have interest in influencing our elections. It has become so common as not to be newsworthy, except to demonstrate where candidates derive their support
Were I an Israeli who heard that an Israeli was trying to influence an American leadership election, I think my first reaction might be “turnabout is fair play.” Oh, and Acai, if your best source is Atlas Shrugs, you don’t really have any evidence.
The amount of anti-Muslim rhetoric coming out of the US is frankly rather scary, and I’m not a Muslim! What next? Lynching? Internment? Mass expulsion? Death in a ditch?
Zhu Bajie, pessimist
Yup this all seems like a lot of noise about not that much….. distributing a movie… the movie about Jenin (the Palestinian production) was pure lying propoganda and they even showed that in Israel… big wup….
The Saudis fund the chair at Georgetown and Columbia… and as well as CAIR who refuses to display where their money comes from… all these chairs and organizations have had things critical to state about the Bush administration now and prior to the 2004 election….
You see it’s just that Richard Silverstein likes to pat himself on the back and make a huge deal about his own importance by in this case making a huge importance out of this movie and its distribution… bcs in his book (via whatever reason he can find today – [see yesterday’s new rules about NY Times policy for allowing ads he adendums] it is more relevant and crucial when an Israeli or American Jew that is also right wing does something… even more relevant than the funding of the Saudi Gov’t…. a country from where most of the 9/11 highjackers came from…. lol….
Ok let’s all get ready for why this is different and why Mr. Silverstein’s “detective work” in this case is most relevant… and then why of course anyone who would disagree is a…………………. “right winger” “israel firster” “neo con” blah blah blah….
Best Regard –
Benny
I would like to also just note that Mr. Silverstein went into hyperplexy about someone posting his picture in the past I believe? However, he had no problem publishing this picture… granted this is likely from a newspaper/publically available etc… (though did he get their permission?).
However, it’s just noteworthy that the principle was he didn’t like his picture being published on the internet but in this case he was more than happy to publish and goat [sic] these people with whom he disagrees….
What’s good for the goose etc….. but it’s not really hypocrisy bcs it’s different in this case Mr. Silvestein is the one doing the publishing and the goading..
Best Regards –
@Benjamin Bratt: As usual you argue non sequiturs.
The Jenin documentary was not distributed to 28 million Americans in an attempt to influence the presidential election.
Beyond that you’re pretty much ranting/babbling & it’s hard to make out what yr argument is.
@Benjamin Bratt: As usual, the story isn’t quite as you describe. Someone posted my image AND my 3 yr old son’s saying we were preparing suicide belts for Palestinian terrorists. But I guess if someone did that to you you’d say to them: “Be my guest.”
I don’t have any problem w. my image being published on the internet. It’s even been appropriated by Campus Watch. Though I’m not happy about it there isn’t much I can do.
The image of the Shore family is freely indexed on Google Images. If the website didn’t want its images indexed they could easily prevent them from appearing. I’ll tell you what, if you write to Campus Watch & tell them to remove my image fr. their site I’ll remove this image fr. mine.
I didn’t know you were so sensitive to copyright infringement. Or is it just when someone you detest engages in behavior you can say “Gotcha” about that all of a sudden it bothers you so deeply??
What’s going on?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/17/03018/0136
I don’t understand the big fuss over this. James Carville, Stanley Greenberg, and Robert Shrum were advisors to Ehud Barak during Barak’s election campaign in 1999. This stuff happens all the time.
@rundmc: Big difference. Shore has not been hired by the McCain campaign to provide election strategy & advice. He is attempting to surreptitiously help McCain’s campaign by distributing anti-Muslim propaganda. I’m not aware of Carville et al. engaging in that type of underhanded activity in Israel.
The Republican Jewish Coalition has been identified as being behind the anti-Obama push polling. It’s connection to the McCain campaign is well known.
Carville at Clinton’s behest went in with operatives consultants and the like and pretty much worked their buts off to make sure Barak got elected!! what are you talking about. not that I care regardless.
Second, what this guy doing if true may seem underhanded… but it’s not a big gothya “Israeli trying to influence an election”!!! the part that is most bathersome is how you love to put in that he’s an Israeli and then step back as if that wasn’t the entire point of your entire overblown post about not that much.
You can bet CAIR is helping and supporting Obama and their funded by the Saudi govt… this is 1 guy who might live in America now ho also has Israeli citiizenship…
I suppose an outcome of this is we could all go on witch hunts and find any Arabs living here who aren’t citizens yet and then blare a headline Arabs secrety or Saudis secretly via CAIR and Saudi money trying to elect Obama!! of course you wouldn’t like that and then would go into hyperplexy about our favorite pet project of racism to point out and blare every second “””””””””” Islamophobia “””””””” presuming they were all Arab Muslims of course. (Ironic considering the word anti-semitism is supposedly banned from use here lol!)
Let me say despite the fact I find your overblown self importance and disputation often annoying and disingenuous I am sorry to hear that some idiot put a picture of you and your 3 year old son on the net with that caption as idiotic and immature as that person may be.
Though I do doubt if someone had ribbed you in an intelligent comedic fashion with 1/2 of the fervor and overblown hyperplexy you go after others as if they’re the “devil incarnate” simply bcs they don’t agree with you – that you’d handle that all that well…. IMO.
And the “gotchya” king sorry is noone but youself…
@Benjamin Bratt:
As usual, you’re confusing the issue. I have no problem w. political operatives running campaigns. They do it for Israelis, they do it for American policitians. THe problem I have is the surreptitious, unaccountable attempt to impact an election through subterfuge & gutter politics. Raphael Shore has been anything but transparent in his dealings. He won’t say who’s funding him. He endorses John McCain but claims he’s not partisan. He uses a 501 c3 which should prevent him fr. engaging in partisan electoral politics, but he does so anyway w. tax-deductible donations.
When Arthur Finkelstein works for Netanyahu or Carville works for Barak everyone knows what they’re doing. There’s nothing secret about it.
CAIR is also a 501 c3 & can’t support Obama or fund him. BTW, the amt. of Jewish support Obama is receiving far outstrips any Arb-American support he’s receiving. And if you’re claiming Saudi Arabia is supporting Obama do pls. provide some proof. We’d like to see it.
That’s the most honest & decent thing you’ve said in yr visits here & I thank you for that. But the person who did this is not just “immature.” He’s actually a vile human being who’s threatened me with genital mutilation among other things.
Maybe when someone appropriates yr own image & puts it up for ridicule on their blog you’ll know how it feels. Till then, you haven’t walked a mile or even a footstep in my shoes.
More information on Gaza contributions to Obama
http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/monir-edwan.asp?cycle=08 – 58k –
Monir Edwan
Political Campaign Contributions
2008 Election Cycle
Contribution Totals
Download all contribution records for this person
from 1999 to present
To a Spreadsheet or Other File Type
2008 Transaction Count/Amount 22/$24,313
2006 Transaction Count/Amount 0/$0
2004 Transaction Count/Amount 0/$0
2002 Transaction Count/Amount 0/$0
2000 Transaction Count/Amount 0/$0
Download all contribution records for this person
from 1999 to present
To a Spreadsheet or Other File Type
Monir Edwan Contribution List in 2008
Name & Location Employer/Occupation Dollar
Amount Date Primary/
General Contibuted To
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $870 11/11/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,389 11/02/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,282 11/02/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $873 11/02/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,389 11/02/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $873 11/02/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $2,017 11/01/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,963 11/01/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,099 11/01/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,389 11/01/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $953 10/31/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,494 10/31/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,582 10/30/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,037 10/30/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $-1,582 10/30/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $-717 10/30/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,582 10/30/2007 G OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $717 10/30/2007 G OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,671 10/30/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,643 10/30/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Edwan, Monir
RAFAH, GA
Accounter/Accounting $1,499 10/30/2007 P OBAMA FOR AMERICA – Democrat
Maybe some of the people behind this don’t want to reveal their identity because they don’t want to end up like Salman Rushdie or the Danish cartoonists (in hiding) or like Theo Van Gogh (dead).
Anyway, what’s the big deal. Shore made a movie and someone else (according to you, possibly an American) has paid to distribute it. If you think Obama is the best candidate to deal with the threat of militant Islam (and I never heard that Obama denied or belittled the threat) than you’re going to see this movie and your support of Obama will be strengthened.
@Acai Berri: It is illegal for a non-U.S. citizen to contribute to a presidential election campaign. So either Monir Edwan is a U.S. citizen or this is a fraud. I have no problem with a U.S. citizen in Gaza contributing to any campaign. Do you have a problem with U.S. citizens from Israel, even extremist settlers say, contributing to the McCain campaign?
So what if somebody from Gaza donated money to Obama? Jews and Israelis have donated millions to both political parties and I don’t see Acai Berri complaining about that.
If it’s true, maybe there’s hope after all that Obama will stand up for justice once elected. Though of course he daren’t do anything except follow the AIPAC script if he has any hopes of winning the election.
@amir: Not at all. Someone who supports Obama but who has no strong opinions about “militant Islam” or the propaganda issues raised by the film may believe that the world is actually under imminent threat fr. jihadis & decide that perhaps Obama isn’t the man for the job. That’s only 1 of the things that is so odious about the film.
I have no problem with a U.S. citizen in Gaza contributing to any campaign. Do you have a problem with U.S. citizens from Israel, even extremist settlers say, contributing to the McCain campaign?…I dont have a problem with either one
here is more on Gaza from the Wall Street Journal
Obama Camp Routed Out Illegal Donations from Palestinians
Glenn R. Simpson reports on the presidential race.
Obama campaign officials said a trio of Palestinian brothers in the Middle East attempted last year to make $33,000 in illegal donations to the campaign via the internet.
The brothers sought to buy “Obama for President” T-shirts in some 97 attempts, 32 of which were initially successful.
They wrongly identified themselves as American citizens, campaign officials said, and listed their address as “GA”, the abbreviation for Georgia, when in fact they live in a refugee camp in Gaza, a rump city-state between Israel and Egypt that is under the control of Hamas.
The donations came in between Sept. 20 and Dec. 6 and virtually all of the money, about $33,500, was returned by December 6. But the refunds weren’t reported to the Federal Election Commission due to a technical error, campaign officials said.
The remaining $2,500 was refunded Monday. The refunds will all be reflected shortly in an amended report. New controls to prevent such attempts are now in place, the campaign said.
Permalink | Trackback URL: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/08/05/obama-camp-routed-out-illegal-donations-from-palestinians/trackback/
@Acai Berri: Buying T-shirts in a purely commercial transaction is NOT a donation. They are paying for a product and getting something in return for their money–hence NOT a donation. Trying to claim that Hamas provides financial donations to Obama based on this is hilarious.
As I wrote in my first comment, the funds were given illegally & were returned. No harm, no foul.
Well, Amir, I’m more afraid of US Christian fanatics than I am of my Muslim students or the men who sell me shish-ke-bob and pulled noodles. Open your eyes. I helped kill a million civilians when I helped in bombing N. Viet Nam. The excuse wasn’t Islam, but anti-communism, defending Xtn civilization. Anyway, life is cheap in Asia, they told us. Don’t go along with Dispensational future history, and you’ll find how little the fundies value your life, too.
Zhu Bajie, alive in the bitter sea
Actually buying shirts from the campaign is considered a donation by US law. I read that somewhere. Otherwise making illegal campaign donations would be really easy.
Zhu Bajie
I don’t understand how your comment is a response to my comment. The makers of Life of Brian, Last Temptation of Christ and Piss Christ do not fear for their lives. You can get killed these days for insulting the prophet but not for insulting the christ. I’m sure your students, though, or shis ke bober do not pose a threat to anyone. And Vietnam was nor fought over a cartoon, book or movie.
@amir: Oh do spare us the Islam is a deadly, violent hateful religion. It’s so old & so expected fr. the pro Israel right.
Delighted to know I can claim tax deductions for all those damn t-shirts I keep buying at Al-Awda conventions and rallies in support of Palestine. Who knew? I just got another one last night that says ‘We Are All Paletinians” from SUSTAIN (Stop U.S. Tax-Funded Aid to Israel NOW!)
Since Prime Minister Haniyeh bestowed Palestinian citizenship on me last month when I visited Gaza, I am happy the US government will subsidize my t-shirt message.
@Mary Hughes-Thompson: I’m pretty sure you’re joking. YOu prob. shouldn’t be taking a deduction for ANY donation for which you get something in return. I’m a former non profit fundraiser… That’s why I think what Clarion is doing is so egregious.
Aw gee.. I figured Amir must know what he’s talking about. Or maybe it’s just Obama t-shirts that are tax-deductible, not other non-profits. Guess it was too good to be true.
After reading some of the posts from extremist pseudo-American Jews (care more for Israel than America), I can’t help but notice how they all turn their blame on Muslims. When someone intelligent and open-minded as Richard Silverstein attempts to make a logical point on Jewish extremism or the Israeli lobby, instead of replying back with answers they re-direct their anger on Muslims. Why don’t you address your own problems directly and quit blaming others?
Unfortunately, at the rapid rate I see extremist Jews doing much to hurt Muslims and Islam’s image, there will be a reaction. That’s right, keep making more enemies in this world.
@Mary Hughes-Thompson: There are two diff. types of “donations.” One is charitable & is tax-deductible; the other is political & it is not. A political donation has certain reporting requirements & must be given by a U.S. citizen. I think the latter issue is what Amir was talking about.
Unless that is, you’re giving to the Clarion Fund to surreptitiously influence the Nov. presidential election. And then you CAN get a tax-deduction & try to swing the election to John McCain. It’s a nifty trick which I hope the IRS will investigate.
“@amir: Oh do spare us the Islam is a deadly, violent hateful religion. It’s so old & so expected fr. the pro Israel right.”
I never said Islam is a deadly, violent hateful religion. I never studied Islam so I have no idea. My impression therefore is dictated by the actions of people who self identify as Muslims. One conclusion I came to is that insulting the Muslim Prophet can be very dangerous much more than insulting any other religion’s symbols. Am I wrong? I never said all Muslims were this way. It’s enough that there are a few and others don’t stop them.
Here is a link (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080927204747.vj5srmx9&show_article=1) to a story about men who identify as Moslems who apparently set fire to the offices of the publisher of a book about the Prophet Mohammed and his child bride. Don’t bother looking for this book to hard if you want to read it because Random House announced last month it had cancelled publication of the book in the United States because of fears of violence. It’s true that there are violent Jews, Christians, Buddhists etc. but there seems to be a difference in the order of magnitude in these kind of events Moslems are involved in and members of other religions when they feel that there religious beliefs are offended. Does pointing this out make me a bigot? Should Random house be considered Islamophobic for fearing Moslems?
@amir:
And you think insulting the modesty code of the Haredi moral majority doesn’t qualify as similarly dangerous religious supremacism? People have been beaten up in Jerusalem & otherwise intimidated. Every religion has its intolerances.
My God, there are intolerant Muslims in the world capable of doing something as boneheaded as throwing a firebomb through someone’s mailbox. Hard to believe! Seems to me we have Jewish extremists who’ve also planted a pipe bomb outside a professor’s front door injuring him. What’s the diff, as they say?
Why is it you are obsessed w. Muslims who do such terrible things but it doesn’t bother you as much when Jews behave the same way? Could it be that you believe Jews are superior? That couldn’t be the case I’m sure.
Don’t start playing those melodramatic violins. Beaufort Press is publishing it here in the States. It will be available shortly & there have been no threats connected w. its publication. But I guess that news is a little inconvenient for yr theories about Muslim hatred, intolerance & violence, isn’t it?
You are intolerant & prejudiced. Of course, YOU don’t believe you are. And you’re not the worst bigot I’ve come across. But your views are intolerant.
I concede that this is true, though I don’t thnk it is “similarly dangerous.” Enforcing a dress code in a predominantly Haredi neighborhood is not unreasonable in my opinion. Beating peole up is. So I don’t have an easy solution to that problem since I don’t think the government should use the police to enforce a dress code either. Voluntary mutual tolerance is the only solution. Seculars should refrain from entering Haredi neighborhoods dressed imodestly and the Haredim should refrain from beating them up. I don’t think this issue is as significant as members of one religion trying to intimidate desenters or members of another religion to expressing their opinion through the arts or other media.
There is no difference. Fortunately these events are few and far apart, are nearly unanimously condemned by Israeli sociey and usually the perpetrators are caught by the Shin Bet. I hope thay will be apprehended in this case as well.
I’m not obsessed. Why do you assume that it doesn’t bother me when Jews behave the same? Because I haven’t posted a comment? You haven’t blogged about all the Katyushas that have been fired into Israel since the “calm” took effect, am I to assume that it doesn’t bother you. Of course not. Give me the same benefit of the doubt.
That’s close to one of the biggest compliments you’ve given me.
If I was to say “men are taller than women” does that make me sexist. Does this picture prove that I’m wrong?
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00460/SUN381GM28-682new_460011a.jpg
On average, men are nontheless taller than women. Today, it seems to me that some Moslems are more likely to resort to violence when their religious sensibilities are offended than members of other religions and that this is having an effet primarily on self censorship. (i.o.w. some people are afraid to say or write anything that may offend Moslems. Others are forced to go into hiding) Jews use other means to stifle debate on issues that are important to them. You have pointed this out many times, yet I have never accused you of self hatred or bigotry for doing so.
@amir:
Isabel Kershner, writing from Israel for the N.Y. Times said that the Sternhell attack caused barely a ripple in Israeli society because it is so inured to such violence. Certainly, Haaretz has covered the story. But whether the avg. Israeli really cares much about Sternhell & finding his attackers, I wonder.
I write here (mostly in comments & not in posts) regularly denouncing Qassam attacks and ALL attacks against civilians both Israeli & Palestinian. I denounce such attacks on Israelis FAR MORE than you ever criticize any Israeli policy or action in yr own comments.
You are neither an objective, dispassionate or expert observer of this phenomenon. There are violent elements in almost every modern religion & for every Muslim attack & I can point to a violent attack by Christians, Jews, whomever. Is there violence within the Muslim community? Yes. Is there violence within other religious communities? Yes. Once again & for what seems to be the 50th time, Muslims are no different than anyone else. They may not be better, but they certainly are not worse. Simply stated, they are human as are all of us. Your attempt to spin theories about Muslims being more prone to violence or more intolerant than the rest of us are grounded in yr own experience & anecdotal evidence that ignores evidence that is not convenient to you.
I don’t know what she expected to happen. The press has given this story more coverage then the residents of Sderot would get for an attack that didn’t kill anyone. Even yesterdy, five days later, Yediot dedicated an entire page (page 4) of the news section to this, even though it didn’t report any new development. If a Kassam hits Sderot and no one is killed it wouldn’t get more than a blip on page 11. “dog bites man”.
The average Israeli cares about is going to get bumped from “big brother.” There should be no surprise there.
When I said men are taller than women, I didn’t say that most men played for the NBA. My own personal experience with Moslems I know is that they are no more prone to violence than anyone else I know. Extreme acts are usually carried out by extremists. So I’m talking about a small group of people within the Moslem world who seem to have a very negative effect on free speech and expression in Europe, mostly, and the US. There are other challenges to free speech and exression, as well, including the tendency for the politically correct to label anyone they disagree with as sexist, racist or anti-semitic
@amir:
I would agree with this, with the caveat that Muslims have absolutely no deleterious impact on free speech in the U.S.
This election campaign has seen lot of allegation and counter allegation based on lies.I wonder where we are heading. If some vested interest want to malign the country’s image I am sure they will be failure in the long run. But they did harmed the decency and fairness of democratic image of this country.
To mingle politics and religion is a shame to the secular thinking of this country.
Now, today 4th of November we have only one prime responsibility to must go to the polling station and cast our votes in this historical election. Thanks
http://www.statedemocracy.org