10 thoughts on “IDF and Gaza Beach Massacre: ‘We Didn’t Do It…They Killed Themselves’ – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. I don’t know how possible it is to tease out the facts here; but thank you for making the effort. “Apparently accidental” or “accidental” are labels attached to these killings by writers and reporters without any factual foundation I can discover.

  2. Possible evidence of this hypothesis are Palestinian eye-witnesses who said that Hamas militants rushed to the site of the blast on Friday evening to collect remnants of the explosives.

    Friday evening

    Friday evening

    Friday evening

    Friday evening

    Few hours after the blast. How do you explain that?…

    Helping woundeds?

    Regards.

  3. Isn’t the most likely scenario that IDF screwed up the strike and missed its target? Why do you assume it’s “criminal murder”? I agree with you that some of the other defenses are incredible but there’s no evidence that it was intentional. Negligence ought to be called out and punished but it’s not murder.

  4. David: I did get carried away w. my language in that instance. But I do feel that an artillery shell landing anywhere fr. a quarter to half mile off target is gross negligence. That’s only one step short of murder.

    But the IDF still maintains it cannot find any account that explains how its forces caused the accident. That is what’s a red flag for me. If you’ve made a mistake you acknowledge it, apologize & move on. But if you posit incredible explanations which uniformly attempt to blame the victims and provide no credible evidence for yr claims–then you begin to look suspect.

    I believe the IDF’s goal is to confuse the issue, to refuse to accept blame & to hope the entire thing goes away w. no accountability reckoned. And given Israel’s willingness to forgive such breaches of law and decency in its intelligence & military operations, that could very well be what does happen.

  5. You are awfully quick to assume that the IDF must be to blame, that it is impossible that people who blow themselves up, who murder innocent children would be unwilling to use their own for their gain.

    It is a sad comment. If you want to pursue justice, pursue it but don’t forget that there is a war going on and people will do things that make your head spin.

  6. CK would try to use the Jerusalem Post to make his case since it’s right wing politics are so conducive to his own. Too bad he neglected this interesting part of Haaretz’s report which one should keep in mind before passing judgment on the credibility of the IDF report:

    The importance of the committee’s findings are obviously mitigated by the fact that ultimately, the IDF is being cleared by an IDF investigation. This is not an international inquiry, or even an external, civilian inquiry. Nevertheless, the army hopes that the findings will clear its name. Thus the next step will be leveraging these findings to affect public opinion: Israeli (where the battle is already largely won…), international and even Palestinian.

    And even if the IDF claim turns out to be true, Israel still has a very big PR problem on its hands because the Palestinians and the world may never believe it:

    In the past, Israel has occasionally succeeded in refuting responsibility for casualties. A good example is the now discredited claim that Israel massacred Palestinians in Jenin in April 2002. This time, however, the game may already be lost.

    In other words, if you engage is a seemingly unending series of brutal acts against a people and it then turns out that one of the so-called brutal acts was not actually your fault, you don’t necessarily get any credit for it based on your previous heinous record. That may be the case for the IDF here.

    If it turns out that Hamas or another militant group did mine the beach then they are certainly criminally negligent. But it makes absolutely no sense to me that you would mine a beach where innocent civilians frolic every day. You’d be deliberately courting the death of innocents. CK clearly relishes the prospect that this might be what happened because then he can further rail against Palestinians.

    But CK will have to pardon my unwillingness to sing hosanas to the IDF just yet given that Haaretz itself points out the obvious self-interest in the supposed findings.

  7. You are awfully quick to assume that the IDF must be to blame, that it is impossible that people who blow themselves up, who murder innocent children would be unwilling to use their own for their gain.

    Jack: There are warriors on both side of this conflict who use “their own” for “gain.” Settlers exploit the memory of the Holocaust to instill guilt within the Israeli psyche for disengagement. Settler parents dress their children with a bulls-eye with the caption: “Karadi [the Israeli police chief] shoot me!”

    Palestinians politicians jump for the chance to adopt one of the surviving girls from the Gaza massacre. It’s all for self-interested political ‘gain.’

    there is a war going on and people will do things that make your head spin.

    Indeed they will–on BOTH SIDES of this conflict.

  8. Jack: There are warriors on both side of this conflict who use “their own” for “gain.”

    Quite true, but there is a world of difference in justifying the murder of your own to further your cause and invoking the Holocaust.

  9. That’s only one step short of murder.

    there is a war going on and people will do things that make your head spin.

    Indeed they will–on BOTH SIDES of this conflict.

    I’m amazed by your continued unwillingness to distinguish between Israeli and Palestinian violence. What you refer to is far more than a “step short of murder”. Both legally and morally, intent is too significant a factor for you to toss aside. Palestinian militants TARGET civilian populations without any political or military significance. It’s clear to me that the IDF is trying to kill high-level terrorist leaders who hide among civilians for the very purpose of provoking an Israeli attack, which in turn makes their cause look better in the international community. When the IDF blows up shopping malls, hotels, restaurants, & buses with no political or military significance, then we can talk about similarities.

  10. I’m amazed by your continued unwillingness to distinguish between Israeli and Palestinian violence. What you refer to is far more than a “step short of murder”. Both legally and morally, intent is too significant a factor for you to toss aside.

    IDF shelling of densely populated Palestinian urban areas such as the Gaza beach region constitutes gross negligence. In addition, the IDF has been criticized & warned by the Israeli media itself that not only is there a danger of killing innocent civilians (as has happened many times), there is a virtual certainty of it. If I warn you that yr behavior will kill innocent people & you persist, then you are guilty of gross negligence. That IS one step short of murder. You didn’t directly intend to kill the person but you didn’t give enough of a shit to figure out another way to accomplish your task. Again, one step short of murder.

    It’s clear to me that the IDF is trying to kill high-level terrorist leaders who hide among civilians

    What’s “clear” to you is by no means clear to the rest of us. It’s clear to me that Israel is tring to kill not only “high-level terrorist leaders” but also low level rocket launchers. The rockets ARE a danger to Israel–but a much more apt description is that they are a nuisance. The Qassams haven’t killed an Israeli in something like four years. Without the Gaza massacre they probably wouldn’t kill an Israeli for another four years. With the cancellation of the Hamas hudna (which I hope is reinstituted), we can no longer have that certainty.

    Besides, are you saying that a rocket launcher is a “high level leader?” If so, then you know nothing about the level of skill required to launch a Qassam nor nor the type of person actually doing it.

    When the IDF blows up shopping malls, hotels, restaurants, & buses with no political or military significance, then we can talk about similarities.

    Well then the time has come to talk about similarities because during the last Intifada Israel DID destroy virtually the entire PA infrastructure including civilian ministries, schools, etc. Anything that was of value to the PA whether it was civilian or military in nature was bombed to smithereens. Have you forgotten that? Guess you have.

    Not to mention the innocent civilians killed by targeted assassinations. BTW, 11 Palestinians were killed yesterday in a single such operation. Eight were civilians and two were children. Collateral damage, huh?

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