7 thoughts on “The Nation’s ‘The Israel Divestment Debate’ – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Mr. Silverstein,

    Once again I’m guilty of naivte thinking that the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza and Olmert’s plans of further West Bank relinquishment in addition to whatever necessity dictates, would shore up some decent PR. Seemingly it is all but forgotten at least in the minds of the Presbos.

    Complaints about Israel’s unilateral initiatives could be deserving of scrutiny but severe economic pressure through divestment and sanctions?

    Your quote “And how can it possibly be that the Protestants don’t “apply the word ‘evil’ to terrorism.” That seems a preposterous assertion & I’m certain it is false.”

    How are you certain? Is there actual documentation from the Presbos condemning Palestinian terrorism as evil or you professing certainty and making assumptions just to avoid cognitive dissonance? Sorry if that comes across as rude or nasty – it’s unintentional; just attempting a rhetorical question.

    While the analogy may have it’s limitations, I’m reminded of a remark made by some activist from the International Solidarity Movement that Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza makes it harder for the ISM to get velocity going in their protests. In other words, with a diminishing number of obstacles to peace, how can the ISM present and forward what’s likely a quite sinister agenda cloaked in the external visage of justice and human rights?

    Tagging Peace Now’s intransigence on jumping the divestment bandwagon as some kind of cheap PR stunt to keep them in the mainstream loop sounds more like a gratuitous jab than an unbiased analysis. So now they’re in agreement with more conservative groups on a specific line item, that means ipso facto they’re exercising ulterior motives? And this defense is from someone who disagrees with them probably more often than otherwise.

    Furthermore, is it so simple to separate the wheat from the chaffe regarding the Presbos affiliation with extremists like the Sabeel center? It’s almost as if you dismiss their affiliation as just an obscure curio or afterthought?

    Personally I can’t help but find their intentions to be suspect considering that they participate in the bait and switch missionary work more often associated with the likes of Southern Baptists and other right-wing churches. Their missionary center falsely advertised as “Temple Beth Avodah” in Philadelphia is Exhibit A.

    One could counter that the Evangelcals do the same thing, claim support of Israel and have captured the hearts of (too) many in the Jewish community; so how come no one complains about them? For what it’s worth, I publicly voice that getting cozy with the Evangelicals and their ilk is sheer folly mostly because of their covert missionary stuff. If anyone of a more “progressive” stripe feels this way as well, then they shouldn’t let the Presbos off the hook either.

  2. How are you certain [that the Presbyterians denounce terror]? Is there actual documentation from the Presbos condemning Palestinian terrorism as evil or you professing certainty and making assumptions just to avoid cognitive dissonance? Sorry if that comes across as rude or nasty – it’s unintentional; just attempting a rhetorical question.

    It seems self-evident to me. Since it is not to you, I will try to do some research to get a more definitive answer for both of us.

    I’m reminded of a remark made by some activist from the International Solidarity Movement that Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza makes it harder for the ISM to get velocity going in their protests.

    Whoever said that is imo pretty dim. Gaza withdrawal is a first step. Perhaps the end of the beginning to quote Churchill. Not until there is full, final & mutually agreed upon peace bet. both parties will there no longer be a need for peace activists to get involved in this issue. And I’d love to see the day this happens (peace that is).

    Tagging Peace Now’s intransigence on jumping the divestment bandwagon as some kind of cheap PR stunt to keep them in the mainstream loop sounds more like a gratuitous jab than an unbiased analysis. So now they’re in agreement with more conservative groups on a specific line item, that means ipso facto they’re exercising ulterior motives? And this defense is from someone who disagrees with them probably more often than otherwise.

    No, I didn’t say “cheap PR stunt,” you did. It is pragmatic political calculation on their part. IMO a purely moral calculation would allow one to approve of divestment (which is why I do). But they are trying to impact the mainstream American Jewish (and Israeli) community. Divestment is currently a detested position by the mainstream leadership (which remember is far more conservative than most American Jews). If you want to retain credibility, APN & BT calculate that you must sacrifice this position for the sake of pragmatic politics. While I regret this “calculation” on their part, I don’t berate them for it & certainly don’t see them as obstacles to peace as Jeff Halper does. I understand that politics is a delicate business & that Mideast politics is some of the most delicate in the world.

    extremists like the Sabeel center

    There are ‘extremists’ & then there are EXTREMISTS. There are dangerous extremists like Islamic Jihad or Al Qaeda. And then there’s the Sabeel Center. I’m only prepared to concede that their embrace of a bi-national state is an extreme position. I’m not prepared to concede that the entire organization & its other positions are extreme as well. I’d have to know more about it before making such a sweeping determination.

    so how come no one complains about them [evangelicals]?

    Not sure what you mean. My blog is full of jeremiads against Christian evangelicals who support the Israeli hard right. I do nothing but complain about them. And this Nation article to which I link above mentions (if I recall my source correctly) that Abe Foxman had a big mtg. w. Eric Yoffie of the Reform movement & other bigwigs to discuss the ill winds blowing our way fr. out alliance w. evangelicals. So I think at least part of the mainstream leadership is becoming more aware of the danger they pose to Jews (& possibly Israel?). But they sure better wake up quick because those evangelicals can do a lot of damage fast (witness Pat Robertson’s idiotic comment about Sharon being punished w. a stroke for giving up the Land).

  3. Please let me clarify since it was too vague regarding “how come no one complains about them?” This was an expected retort on your part regarding the potential hypocrisy of those (usually of a more conservative leaning) who would voice complaints about the Presbos’ covert missionary work but remain silent when the Evangelicals do the same thing since the latter are pro-Greater Israel. I was attempting to be proactive. While submitting a complaint on the part of the Presbos bait ‘n switch missionary stuff, I didn’t want you to assume that I’m of the type who purposefully turns a blind eye to likewise behavior on the part of the Evangelicals since the latter are pro-Greater Israel or whatever.

    Hope that provided some clarity.

    Putting aside the remark of “cheap publicity stunt” regarding Peace Now’s refusal to participate in pro-divestment activism, I still think your being unduly harsh in accusing them of selling out. Granted, you likely have a greater command of interpreting their nuances, but from my point of view this is a breath of fresh air; that their tactical approach is more the result of ideology than being held to ransom by intriguing (and in this case hopefully ephemeral) trends.

    Your take on the ISM’s statement about the Gaza withdrawal:

    “Not until there is full, final & mutually agreed upon peace bet. both parties will there no longer be a need for peace activists to get involved in this issue.”

    Considering the ISM has kept suspicious contact with suicide bombing terrorists, one need not get too hasty in tagging them a “peace group”. Support for Palestinian rights, statehood, etc does not ergo make one a “peace activist”. Al-Qaeda for example.

  4. “The Occupation IS the root of all evil in the I-P conflict.”
    Hardly! The “original sin” of Israel – refusing to allow 700,000 Palestinians to live in their own homes – is just as egregious, if not worse. Your continued embrace of a so-called 2 state “solution” is neither realistic or grounded in anything resembling a humanist tradition. When Israel is a nation of all of its citizens, when it applies the law of Return without ethnic distinction, when it returns to the humanism articulated by Prophet Hillel the Elder, on that day Israel will truly be a Jewish state.

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