Sarah Lyall wrote a great piece about an growing problem in English social relations As Privet Rises, Neighbors Take Sides in the New York Times. Apparently, tensions have risen to such a pitch that one disgruntled neighbor actually killed someone who refused to trim his garden hedge.
I feel in the gardening community not enough attention is devoted to gardening etiquette, good manners and good behavior. It’s just assumed that since gardeners are good souls engaging in a spiritually rewarding pastime, that it would go without saying that gardeners would be good, reasonable and caring souls. Well, it ain’t true. Gardeners can be stubborn, willful and downright pigheaded fools (I sometimes count myself among them).
The issue of using hedges as barriers in order to maintain privacy is one that affects me personally. I garden in my home in Madrona (Seattle). The entire southern side of my property is dominated by an English laurel hedge that at its top height reaches between 40-50 feet high. Some books say 30 feet is maximum, but that isn’t the case with this monstrous specimen. The hedge’s length is about 60 feet. The research librarian at the Miller Library at the University of Washington helped me do some botanical research on English laurels and two books in particular (I’ll have to dig up her e mail in which she names the titles & authors) warn against using this plant as a privacy hedge.
In The Complete Shade Gardener (Houghton Mifflin), George Schenk says:
…The planting of an English laurel hedge is an act of aggression against one’s neighbor – and against oneself as well. It is the fightingest of hedges, pushing outward and upward as soon as you turn your back. English laurel is one of the greatest goads to giving up on the yard and moving into an apartment – in a very real sense, this shrub is a real estate agent.
English laurel according to various botanical websites is mildly poisonous (leaves, stem & bark). I have a two year old son and I don’t want him to be endangered by something like this. It can grow up to 5 feet per year. It throws seeds at least 40 feet (well into my yard) forcing me to pick out 50-100 germinated seedlings each year. It sheds leaves profusely and leaves scatter far from their source (forcing me to rake them up on my own property).
Which all leads me to the fact that my neighbor who owns this monstrosity does (in his own defence) trim this hedge once every two years. But in the year when he doesn’t trim I essentially lose about 25% of my yard for gardening purposes since the hedge wipes out that much sunlight. I offered to pay for the trimming in years when he didn’t choose to. He refused. I think he’s being downright selfish, bad mannered and unneighborly.
Tamara. You can cut it back to the roots and it will survive. After dealing with it for many years we dug it out and I know I will be dealing with it’s coming up for as long as I live here.
I’ve read all comments and no one has mentioned or considered photinia as an alternative to laurel?
Portuguese Laurel is a better hedge alternative. link to gardenia.net
Hi, I just put in English Laurel along a side fence for privacy. There are 4 of them, will add a 5th at far end soon. They are in a raised bed that is 6′ -9′ deep – it curves. Adjacent is concrete, deck, and pool. Our house was lifted and leveled when we remodeled at time of purchase, so we are 3 1/2 feet higher than neighbor’s house. We see into their yard unless have good screening. This is in a flat suburban development in Marin county, northern CA. Great neighborhood but neighbors are close. We had huge Leptospermum hedge there but it eventually took tree shape and wasn’t giving screening where we needed it any longer, so took it out.. I love the beauty of the Laurel. I don’t have grass near it. I’m willing to prune it annually and need the great screening. So in that location I am happy with decision. After reading all these posts, I am reconsidering putting it in another area, which is along my back fence, behind the pool. Not a huge yard and the pool butts up to the planting bed which makes it tricky to prune the front of anything there… tops are easy. This back fence borders the neighbor’s side yard so their house is just 6′ behind my back fence! Must have great screening. There are 50 year old pittosporum there, along with adjacent bamboo (20′ high), pyracantha (15′ high) and more bamboo at other end. It’s been great for 15 years but now one of the pittisporum is dying. I had planned to put more bamboo there. But the others will end up dying and then I’ll need more … do not want to end up with a LOT of bamboo…. I think I’d rather have a lot of English Laurel. Ideas? This side gets pretty much full sun. Thanks for any input.
Maintaining hedges usually means trimming several times per year. If one has that kind of time or money to waste if you hire someone to do the work; knock yourself out. It’s better to find something that’s relatively slim like Pyramidalis but English Laurel? Only if you’ve got the room and don’t mind losing time and gardening area in the process.
We moved to our new home and noticed the laurel along the fence, roughly 40′ long and was into the yard roughly 20′. We thought we’d address it after we got settled. As it turned out, it was our ‘neighbors’ hedge that had been allowed to spread unabated. Thankfully they removed it but it did force us to make plans for future privacy screening asap.
Approve Trash Trash Thread Trash & Ban IP | Trash Thread & Ban IP
I really don’t care if some think it’s an act off aggression… maybe it is. I moved to the country and purchased 4 acres. The people next to me sold out to a developer. My 10 new “neighbors” that border my property are maybe 12 feet from the property line. I can hear their children cough. I can smell their dryer sheets. I know what they are having for dinner…
We purchased a little farm because we like space and privacy, and here we are, right up next to 27 new neighbors, 10 of them bordering our property. So… up went the laurel for privacy.
The nursery where we bought the Laurel said: “if you really want fast growing privacy, trim the sides — nothing else. They will become dense and shoot straight up”. They did. Within 2 years I had a nice hedge. Within 4 years I have a beautiful 30 ft. hedge dividing our property line, minus the sight of their (forgive me) ugly track homes. My side is well pruned and shaped, I have no idea what their side looks like and personally, I don’t care. The way I see it is: if you buy a home 12 ft. from someone’s property, you’ll have to live with the natural barrier they put up, regardless of what it does…
Just saying…
Approve Trash Trash Thread Trash & Ban IP | Trash Thread & Ban IP
I have a 100 foot long English Laurel hedge along one boundary of my property. Unlike most of the stories here, it’s never been a problem.
The first day I moved in, my new neighbor came over. I introduced myself by saying, “Well, how do we share clipping the hedge?” THAT probably got thingsd started off on the right foot!
Actually the hedge is on my neighbor’s property, but for the remaining ten years of his life we shared hedge clipping between us. Never a problem.
He was a twice a year clipper, which kept the clipping easy. The hedge was about five feet tall and about three feet wide, and on a slope on my side of the property. That made clipping somewhat difficult to do.
When my neighbor died, the next year I cut the hedge down to two feet wide and three feet high. The 5×3 size meant 13 feet to clip, while the new size means 8 feet to clip — a substantial reduction in work and it’s easier too because you don’t have to reach so high.
The house hasn’t been occupied since my neighbor died in 1995 —- so I soldier on clipping by myself. I used to tell his son that his dad haunts me if I don’t clip the hedge “Will, it’s time to clip the hedge. Twice a year, the middle of May and the middle of October”!
I just got done with another hedge clipping effort, my second, and I just have to clip part of the top to complete the job. Probably a couple hours work with electric hedge clippers.
Never seen a laurel flower, seed or seedling. I imagine that the twice/year clipping eliminates that as a problem.
I live in the Pacific Northwest and I agree with what Richard is saying. In fact, I had an English laurel hedge planted last year to replace a line of old Lawson cedars that died off because of our recent hot summers and water restrictions. Over our mild winter and this spring, I’ve been finding hundreds of small seedlings sprouting up in the lawn and surrounding area. I’d never seen these before and hadn’t linked them to the laurel until I read Richards comments. It is a pain to pull these seedlings out of the grass, as if clover and other weeds isn’t enough work.
But I’d like to know how laurels take to shearing with hedge clippers, rather than hand pruning with loppers?
Hello and please forgive the following rant!
I’m one of the bad guys I guess. I’m having a horrible time with the woman who lives behind me, and for completely opposite reasons as our original poster here. 😉
I live in the Northwest, in a very urban neighborhood that while beautiful (old houses, tree-lined streets, sidewalks, close to downtown), has lots that don’t offer much space between the houses. There is no window that I can look out of that doesn’t look into others’ windows or offer some privacy – except for in the back yard – or at least the potential for privacy is there anyway! There is a very old, well-established laurel hedge that runs along the back of my property. The older people who owned our house before us told me their mother had planted it years ago. It looks very much as though it’s on our property but there’s the chance it’s on the line (haven’t had it surveyed yet; the woman behind me says it’s on the line cause she had some workers measure from an official stick/post that was put in the ground by her front sidewalk when they were putting in a garage and needed to do some zoning-related measuring).
This neighbor behind me wants the laurel cut down to about, oh, 10 feet or so, and for it to stay there, at that height. Before we moved in 10 years ago, she always kept it short. We’ve allowed her to keep cutting it each year but only cause she acts like a bully and as if she owns the bush and I never had the nerve to ask her to stop cutting it so short, until recently (last few years). She says if it’s tall it blocks her Eastern, morning winter light from her first floor where she paints (she’s an artist). The hedge sits at the back of her back yard (not right up next to her house). She says she likes to see the sun come up between my house and my side neighbor’s house. It’s hard for me cause I’m an artist at heart and I “get it” while at the same time she’s SO hard to deal with and acts very selfish about it. She’s extremely stubborn and uncompromising (I’m willing to compromise) and she talks as if she has this huge sense of entitlement, and in this really whiny, pathetic tone. Yet SO disagreeable at the same time – it’s almost funny – only, not. It’s like the “poor me” thing is just an act…it comes across as so manipulative and like she’s just used to getting her way. I honestly would let her have her way if I myself didn’t have my own issues which to me are – at least I feel – equally valid.
I love living the urban life and I love my neighbors in general. But let’s face it, it’s noisier and less green than living out in the country. Still, most of my neighbors have a lot more space and see a lot more trees and vegetation. My situation just happens to involve seeing a lot of buildings and a lot less greenery, unfortunately. I’m working on it. While an urban neighborhood was my choice, I yearn for privacy and have an emotional NEED/severe craving for a special place on my property that is just really green and serene and gives me the illusion at least that I’m removed from the rest of the world. I don’t think it’s too much to ask while at the same time I admit it’s almost like some sort of emotional disability! I’m “mental” about this need. It’s like craving coffee in the morning, if any of you can relate. Ok bad metaphor. It’s like craving oxygen, perhaps? 😉 I know my neighbors aren’t staring in at me – they have way better things to do. I wouldn’t even care so much if they did look in and wave on some occasions! But everywhere I look I see houses and windows and cars – and the houses all seem so much taller regardless of whether or not they actually are – and so close to me. While I could move to a different sort of neighborhood, I think compromising by having just one side of my yard be/feel private (and then getting all the amazing, incredible bonuses that come from living close-in near the city), is reasonable. My rear neighbor just has the unfortunate position of being on the side that offers me most of this opportunity – ANY of this opportunity, actually.
I’ve told her that while I’d like the hedge to be much taller, I’d be willing to compromise on height to some degree (shorter than all the other neighbors’ laurel; we have it all over the block – but taller than 10′ or whatever that lower height is). I really made a big effort on a couple of occasions to come to some mutually beneficial resolution – and even more in her favor than mine, just cause I sort of felt sorry for her since she acts like such a victim I guess! This same woman by the way tore out a quarter to a third of the entire hedge out by the roots when she was having her garage built and the hedge was inconveniencing her workers (she wanted her garage to be wider than all the other garages in the neighborhood – so her garage extended into the back yard – not just the side). So you see it’s always, ALWAYS, all about her and only what she wants. Anyway, she said no — that she needs the hedge to be shorter and isn’t willing to compromise. Then she told me I could plant hops which would die down in the winter and provide her more light. But then where will my meditative nature space (and yes sense of privacy) be in the winter? I don’t just want the hedge for when I’m outside in the summer…I love the green, old English, foggy, other-wordly feeling in the winter, from my windows, too! Doesn’t that make any sense? I could plant more trees on my side but already the laurel takes up so much of the property because as I said before – it’s on my property in every obvious way. I said we could consider taking out the laurel if we both agreed to plant a couple of fast-growing trees and a fence but she said no to that too – that she likes the laurel too much to do that. It just has to all be just so, for her. Already I did plant a quaking aspen tree on my side of the laurel (I was hiding the new ugly garage). She said passive-aggressively that I wouldn’t have survived a day in a city like San Francisco and implied I shouldn’t live in the city, due to my desire for privacy. But I told her it’s not just privacy, and it’s not at ALL about trying to “hide” from HER in particular – it’s also about wanting to see nature in an urban space, instead of a house so close.
Maybe she is the one who needs to live out in the country if she can’t recognize that neighbors shoved tightly together like this are each going to have their own individual needs and rights. In my opinion it all comes down to facts and legalities at this point since we both have our own opposing but valid viewpoints and preferences/needs, and we’re only going around and around in circles otherwise. She keeps implying I could change instead of her but she could just paint upstairs couldn’t she? God forbid her having to compromise along with me! She’s not elderly (though older than I am) so she could go upstairs – that’s where her bedroom is in fact – and her only sunlight problem is in the morning of the winter. Maybe she could just not paint in the winter – haha. She does also like to look out over the hedge into the trees on the other side of the block on my front side, far into the distance, which I understand but it’s not like it’s a neighborhood with “views” of anything in particular and again, I’m not suggesting it be as high as I’d like – just higher. I’ve been in her house and she has loads of gorgeous trees to look at from all sides, unlike me! I’d love to see the trees in the distance beyond her house, when looking out the windows of my first floor but unfortunately between her tall house and enormous garage I can’t see anything besides her buildings, when the hedge is cut down as low as she’d like.
Done ranting for now. Go ahead and tell me what you think if I haven’t scared you away with all this writing!
are you talking about Privet (Ligustrum) or English Laurel (Prunus laurocerasus)? Privet is a nightmare for sure but true English Laurel is not.
English laurel. It may not be a nightmare in yr climate, but it is in ours.
Richard, we were considering planting some English Laurel along 150 feet of our property between us and the future fire station. We have about 40 feet between our yard and their property. We’re not looking for a trimmed hedge neccessarily but a privacy, noise, pollution screen as they will look down into our pool, yard and daughters bedrooms. The key is that this area is filled with our Oak trees and dips down to a creek. (Which is why our yard is fenced off from that part of our property.) So whatever is planted there needs to able to grow under the canopy of these old Oak Trees and be a fast grower and visually shield our home and yard from the station which will be built on a building pad that sits 10 feet higher than our yard elevation. We’re ideally looking for something that will start shielding at 5 ft and as high as 30 feet. This is at the south of our property. Could you provide a suggestion that might be better for this? I would appreciate any help as we are not thrilled to have the Fire Dept. buy our neighbors home to tear it down to build their dream facility. We live in California in the Bay Area.
Thanks much.
Actually, I would go to the fire dept. & responsible local agencies & ask them to build a privacy hedge for you on their own adjacent property or else to pay for one you plant on yr property. Let them have the headache & take care of it for you since they’re presumably going to invade yr privacy & also impact the value of yr property.
This was our initial idea too. We tried to do this and they told us they were unwilling to do anything but put up a couple screens (7 ft tall by 4 ft) in a couple stragic places on their side blocking the view into their bedrooms but unfortunately does nothing to protect the our privacy or public access to our property. They put a nice walking path on the plans for the public bordering our property so that they could enjoy the creek and oak canopy. They won’t even put a standard 6 ft fence up on their property line. They are tearing down the one that is existing. Hence our fusteration! We tried to talk to the county agencies who will not force them to address the privacy or depreciation of property value. So we are in search of an economical way to protect our privacy from this fire station of 18 firefighters rotating through 3 shifts and public access. But they said they will be “good neighbors”.
I wouldn’t trust a promise of being a good neighbor as far as I could throw it. You get 18 guys living in a space next door to you full time & who knows how they will behave. Maybe they’ll be decent, maybe they won’t.
Get yrself a good land use attorney. Then tell the fire department that your lawyer is empowered to negotiate a satisfactory resolution of the dispute for you, and that you’re prepared to go to the local TV station to make your grievance known. Personally, I think you’d have a good case in the court of public opinion. And I doubt they’ll want something like this to go all the way to court. In addition, I’d try to get yr attorney to negotiate conditions for use of the fire station so that it will negatively impact you as little as possible.
My wife knows the San Francisco city attorney and might be able to help if you need a referral to a good local attorney wherever you live.
We would appreciate a refferal, we would be fishing in a haystack. Thanks Richard.
Some great info hear and English Laurels are definitely for me. They will do exactly as I want in blocking out annoying neighbors. If they spread, even better because this means I have to buy less of them.
In my area one can trim trees or hedges that are on their property. Our neighbors have a gigantic laurel hedge that is a nightmare and we cut our side every year. The think is easily 12-15 feet wide and the suckers come up everywhere. It is a constant battle. They don’t cut their side and it is taller than their house. If a tree is on my property and taking over many feet of it I’m going to trim it!
We have a friend that got sued because a woman had a fit that he cut the branches off her tree (that were over his driveway). He cut the branches off to tree instead of leaving a stub. In doing so went over her property line a couple feet. He would have been fine if he had only cut the branch back to his property line.
We planted a dwarf laurel hedge in another area and like it very much. We keep it confined and doing so it doesn’t get out of hand.
We also live in the Pacific NW
Laurel Hedges:
We are doubly “blessed”. I have lived in this house for over 30 years and houses on both sides have sold several times. The neighbor to our right have allowed the laurel hedge (planted right on the property line) to grow to over 20′. They refuse to trim so we are stuck with an out of control laurel with trunks 6″ in diameter. It is gangly and sparse on the low end and we are overpowered trying to manage our side of the darn thing.
On the other side is another laurel planted right on the property line and it has been allowed to grow so high and wide that we can’t see out of our living room window. To make matters worse, there is also a huge laurel hedge facing the street and it is so high and wide that we are unable to see the street, houses across the street from some of our windows. In both cases the owners want their privacy and do not plan on manaaging the hedge at all. Neither are gardners, yard people etc. It is really unfair to allow these hedges to encroach on our property, block our view and greatly impact the growing area in our own yard.
Not only have these hedges been a huge burden but our relationship with either neighbor is not good because they just don’t care.
@Brian McNamara: If you trim it back with its vigorous growth I’m guessing it will close the gap. If you cut it down to the ground and cover the stump tightly with thick black plastic bag for several months or a year I believe that should kill it. That’s what I’ve seen folks do in the city park near our home, which is infested w. it. I’ve never dealt w. the roots so I can’t say how deep they go. Given how hardy this thing is I’m guessing taking it out by the roots wouldn’t be easy.
I have the laurel hedge from hell. I had it trimmed to 5 feet about 10 years ago. Since it was a rental property and I was absent the thing is now 30′ feet tall and the laterals are huge. I need to whack it. If I want to keep it for privacy can I cut it down to about 3′ x 3′ and leave the laterals that run towards the next trunk so it will close the gaps? Or, if I choose to dig it out how deep do the roots need to be dug in order to make it go away forever. It is a monster! The things has become a huge trellis for blackberries which make trimming a nightmare.
bexsoda: It sounds like your laurels may be growing in shade. Or perhaps your colder winters diminish growth. Here in Seattle they can grow pretty much yr round since we only get brief freezes. And the growth is much more in the 3-5 feet a yr range.
I don’t have a problem w. them as long as they are grown in the right place & for the right reason & by an owner who respects the needs of their neighbors.
i live in new jersey. i have had laurels for three years and they grow only a foot or two a year. i know they must be very annoying to you, but here they are not a problem at all. today i was looking at 1 gallon containers and they were $50.00. start selling them online :), maybe that will make you will love them.
Richard, thank you very much for your quick reply and comments about the laurel. I just got home from the weekend vocation.
I saw two English laurels standing in the city park. They are large and beautiful, with big shade. Because the old large tree, which usually provided a big shade for my driveway, is dead, I just need to grow another big tree to replace the dead one. I don¡¦t mind how tall it grows, but the taller the better, and I don¡¦t care how wide it expends, but the wider the better, because I need its big shade and also its fast growing speed. I do not plant a hedge, but a shade. For this reason, English laurel sounds one for me. For this reason, if I plant an English laurel, I will not trim it except its lower part over the driveway. I will trim it like a doorway. However, the testimonies on the website and the warning from you make me worry about its¡¦ uncontrollable expending. It should be plant by the street. Most lawns on both side of the street are not larger than 800 sqft. If not all but most landlords have their lawns maintained monthly. Will it help to stop the English laurel from expending its territory?
Which else tree can grow fast and tall with large crown? I live in the Silicon Valley south to San Francisco .
Thank you again for your kind help.
I have an old tree (about 40 feet high and wide) at the corner of my driveway and the street sidewalk in front of my house in California. It usually provided a good view and nice shadow to my car especially in sunny summer. However, it is dead. I have to plant another tree, tall, wide, and fast growing, to replace the dead old tree. In this case, do you think English Laurel will be an acceptable plant? Thanks.