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Tags: Barack Obama, gaza-siege, mahmoud-abbas, Mavi Marmara, United Nations
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1. as noted above, this footage does not look much like an m-16 shooting. first of all, it does not look much like an M-16. secondly, I can’t see a flash from the shot itself, nor is there a discharge of a bullet casing. also, an m-16 is heavy, and shooting it requires steadily holding with both hands, otherwise you will probably shoot your foot off. by the way, not only the face of the victim is hidden, but the entire victim is no where to be seen. all i really see in this video that you present as solid evidence is two soldiers kicking an unseen object, and one soldier handling a weapon in an odd manner.
2. even if this footage does portray the execution of a passenger, this does not that the “IDF executed mavi marmara victims”. it means, as the post itself states, that A soldier shot A passenger. that is all this video can prove. can it prove that all passengers were executed? that is quite a leap.
3. you can be ashamed if you like. but this video does not back up your claims as well as you would like it to.
1. Who says it was an M16 ? It’s quite obviously a lighter, specialized weapon.
2. A frame-by-frame analysis shows, towards the end of this footage, one of the commandos apparently reloading his weapon, pointing it, then an obvious rifle recoil. Something is being fired, and many “non-lethal” round can be quite lethal, especially at such close range. And, autopsies of corpses from the Marmara with multiple gunshot wounds to the head do indeed suggest execution. I would venture that this video would be considered important ancillary evidence were this to be prosecuted in an average American courtroom before a jury. I would also venture that in such a hypothetical case the “average person in the street” would tend to agree with the proposition, based on a range of available evidence (including this footage), that there were indeed summary executions carried out by IDF commandos on the Mavi Marmara.
3. Nothing “proves” anything. “Proof” as such does not really exist – the Greek Skeptics demonstrated that several thousand years ago. Prove to me that the world outside my door doesn’t wink out of existence when I shut the door – good luck; it’s impossible. So, absolute proof of proposition “a” – Israel’s claim that Marmara dead wound up with multiple bullet wounds to their heads because they attacked IDF commandos, or “b” – the counter claim, that the commandos executed civilians, does not exist and will never exist. All we have are official Israeli government accounts on one side, and eyewitness accounts from civilians on the Marmara on the other, corroborated by video evidence smuggled off the Marmara. But if Israel was interested in an objective accounting of what happened on the ship, why did they attempt to seize all the evidence, video and otherwise ? It suggests basic bad faith.
Interesting observation, what I see is two IDF soldiers shooting a subdue passanger execution style, look man is simple if there was no intention to execute goyins why not realease all the confiscated footage?? That’s how you put a stop to all this “conspiracies” right?
[...] Vídeo de los comandos israelíes ejecutando a un tripulante [ENG] http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2010/06/10/idf-execute… por timonoj hace 2 segundos [...]
More damming is the 15min (so far) raw footage
Its been edited and cut from an hour and doesn’t explain where blood (first 2min) on ladder came from, but it certainly gives timeline of events. Activist dead or wounded before commandos ever board the ship
http://www.culturesofresistance.org/gaza-freedom-flotilla
http://twincities.indymedia.org/2010/jun/video-inside-lethal-israeli-gaza-flotilla-raid-turkish-ship-released-united-nations-tc-indy
First coverage of news conference I have seen (kindly sent by Sharon)
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=51791
Unfortunately a bit wishy washy “The footage released by Lee appears to confirm elements of both accounts”
What needs to be shown/explained is the time line. The 15min edit shows blood on ladder in the first 2 minutes, but no explanation of where blood came from. Then later shows commandos rappelling down …
From what I have seen so far, appears to support time line that people on board ship were dead or wounded before any commando set foot on deck. http://twitter.com/delegitimize/ says more footage will be released tomorrow.
If video shows that people on board were dead or wounded before any commando rappelled down that supports every single survivor testimony.
It also means, more ominously, that the IDF deliberately provoked passengers to ensure a confrontation when they rappelled down.
I understand that the “blood” on the steps/ladder was from paint ball gun. I think it was in a NY Times blog, and either the blogger or a commenter noted the lunacy of using red paint.
[...] also Tikkun’s remarks. [...]
More DL links of 488MB footage released so far
http://gazaflotilla.delegitimize.com/statements/activist-statements/exclusive-16-minute-footage-from-mavi-marmari/
Issue I see is the IDF claims they acted in self-defense and have had their version of events and their video played the world over of commandos rappelling down and being attacked.
The 15min released so far, shows in the first 2-5min unexplained blood stains on a ladder, sounds of gunfire, commandos rappelling down from a helicopter. If the blood on the ladder is a passengers blood, wounded or dead before any commando set foot on the ship, that supports every single survivors testimony that they were attacked before being boarded.
It means, irrefutably, that the IDF deliberately provoked the passengers in order to achieve the outcome the IDF and the US-Israeli Gov wanted, a confrontation leading to murder, mayhem, and pre-determined justification of ‘self-defense’ by the IDF
The IDF, AIPAC, the US congress, Jon Stewart, Glenn Beck, ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, SkyNews, etc etc ad nauseam propagandists have barraged the world with “Israel acted in self-defense” Same old story. This video potentially destroys that completely. Thats why have to see it in its entirety.
It will be ignored by Israeli controlled media/politicians and get little exposure, make no mistake, but it is potentially irrefutable to someone who cares about the truth
The media team on board Mavi Marmara had a complex operation, streaming video from different sources, including a pool TV camera, ship’s security cameras, etc, and then broadcasting it (as it came in) to different news agencies, etc, including the IHH, which was what I saw, live. They used a secret frequency to try and avoid Israeli jamming.
The Turkish coordinator of all this was shot relatively early, from a helicopter, so it’s not at all surprising that there was great confusion.
Whether the person who was killed was actually Furkan Dogan or not (there is no visual evidence of who it was, and will be none while Israel holds all the passengers’ media) the fragmentary sequence shows a deliberate murder.
You can see testimony from a very involved eye-witness here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gp8ECrDQLg&feature=player_embedded
the cbc with a balanced report on the incident
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2010/06/june-9-2010.html#
As I said before and was censored:
These are Americam made 98Custom Paintball rifles, manufactured by Tippmann.
These can not kill let alone execute anyone.
It might hurt, when pointed against soft tissue like eyes.
Nice one. Unbelievable, but nice try.
Hasbara alert!
[...] See also Tikkun’s remarks. [...]
[comment deleted for comment rule violation]
i see the gun, i see the sodier… but i don see him shoot…
You forgot to metion that the soldiers took the blood of the killed moslems for Passover and took the organs for transplantion.
Another comedian! What is it about dead Muslims that brings out the sense of humor of Israeli worst supporters??
Please see the following Jerusalem Post report:
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177445
It’s about a new Israeli hero called “St.-Sgt. S.” who like his comrades was armed with a 9 mm. Glock pistol. Haaretz says the pirates started shooting the relatively unarmed passengers soon after they boarded the ship.
S. calls the six passengers he murdered “mercenaries”:
“Facing more than a dozen of the mercenaries, and convinced their lives were in danger, he and his colleagues opened fire, he said. S. singlehandedly killed six men. His colleagues killed another three.”
A possible reason for the massacre was to free the soldiers who were taken down and so prevent hostage negotiations which would be considered a grave military defeat.
Another reason may be loss of rational thinking due to hate filled education and punctured pride.
[...] see execution video, IDF soldiers executing a person on board the ship, here. (It’s not graphic at all). The writing there is very good [...]
This video was edited for dramatic effect. Watch the original…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3qGF9amIHw#t=122
The soldier who supposedly shot this person kicks him once and walks away BEFORE the next soldier kicks him a couple more times, then follows after the (apparently still live) person who crawls away.
It is quite clear that there are no gunshots.
If what the Israelis did is so obviously horrific, why do the flotilla supporters have to be so dishonest? “19 dead”, “shot four times in the face”, “exections”… discredited one by one.
How does it feel to be used?
Actually, on the audio portion of the video you CAN hear gunshots, but they are coming fr. another part of the boat that is not visible. Further, why do you think a commando might not have shot a victim and then kicked him? Or that someone shot might not crawl away (as long as they are wounded & not dead)?
One story said Furkan was shot four times in the head. It turns out he was killed by one shot to the head & there were four other shots to the body. Is it your intent to claim that this someone works in Israel’s favor???
Used? Hardly. But I have a better question? How does it feel to be a hasbarist?
As for the number of dead, Israel still hasn’t named who it killed so how would we know the precise number? There are still six missing. Why hasn’t Israel made any statement about this even to deny their existence? And nine dead are somehow more acceptable to you because the number 19 turned out POSSIBLY to be wrong?
To Black Rabbit – sorry for the late response but I just saw your post and can’t let this silliness go by unchecked. To suggest the flotilla supporters (i.e. passengers) are dishonest is beyond insulting. As one of three people in the Cyprus Free Gaza media office during and after the massacre, I can attest to the fact that we reported no deaths or other casualties until the IDF confirmed them. When journalists were claiming 3 or 4 dead we said we couldn’t confirm. Then when Israel reported ten, then sixteen, then nineteen dead, we figured they should know since they were responsible for all of them.
As for your facts in quotes, can you please show any evidence they have been discredited? That passengers WERE executed, and that the 19 year old Turkish/American passengers was shot five times in all including four times in the face and head? If anyone is being used it is you and those like you who refuse to acknowledge that Israel behaved like a terrorist state when it preyed on boats in international waters and murdered unarmed passengers who were 70 miles from Israel and moving even further away when they were attacked.
It’s incredibly painful for me to see what Israel has become–like South Africa during the worst of Apartheid. Israel is now led by a vicious right-wing group who use the Holocaust- the worst crime in human history- for their own gain, and call any Jew who objects to the abuse of Palestinians a “self-hating” Jew.
The denial by many Israelis about war crimes committed by their country is so high that no video, no witnesses, NOTHING will sway them from their blindness. A tragedy to turn away from self-examination, which has always been an integral part of Jewish culture
[...] idf-executed-mavi-marmara-victims [...]
Furkan Dogan was not, as the media likes to describe, “Turkish” or even “Turkish-American.” He was a 19 year old AMERICAN, born in New York, and carried an American passport with a Turkish residency stamp. The media continues to try to downplay or dilute the fact that Furkan Dogan was an American, to save Israel from the wrath of Americans.
Not quite true. Yes, he was a U.S. citizen. But he spent most of his life in Turkey & was thoroughly Turkish. I’m not discrediting the notion that the U.S. gov’t should’ve taken a much more active role in representing his interests after his death than it did.
I don’t think it matters where he actually lived; it’s a qualifier that makes him look like he doesn’t matter. All persons who are officially American citizens deserve diplomatic protection regardless of where they reside. The US would have been quite PO’d if, for example, an American residing in Iran got murdered by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards; so what’s the difference?
[comment deleted--if your goal is to score pts in the hasbara war, this is the wrong place for you]