.jpg){kind=small}
mini.jpg)
Russia invaded Georgia. What did they expect? That former satellite states would roll over and play dead? Now, it appears that the Russians, displeased with Poland’s looking out for its long-term interests, are planning to “punish” the Poles. What can be next? Russian tanks in Warsaw??
The United States and Poland reached a long-stalled deal on Thursday to place an American missile defense base on Polish territory, in the strongest reaction so far to Russia’s military operation in Georgia.
Russia reacted angrily, saying that the move would worsen relations with the United States that have already been strained severely in the week since Russian troops entered separatist enclaves in Georgia, a close American ally. At a news conference on Friday, a senior Russian defense official, Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, suggested that Poland was making itself a target by agreeing to host the anti-missile system. Such an action “cannot go unpunished,” he said.
When I read the following I thought: “Gee, maybe Putin should’ve thought of that before deciding to occupy parts of Georgia:”
“It is this kind of agreement, not the split between Russia and United States over the problem of South Ossetia, that may have a greater impact on the growth in tensions in Russian-American relations,” Konstantin Kosachyov, chairman of the foreign affairs committee in the Russian Parliament, told the Interfax news agency on Thursday in Moscow.
Related posts:
- Russia Will Back Sanctions, Israel’s New ‘If Wishing Made it So’ Approach to Iran Policy
- Was ‘Hijacked’ Russian Ship Intercepted by Mossad, Carrying Missiles to Iran?
- Arctic Sea Carried Russian S-300 Missiles Bound for Iran, Israeli Intelligence Admits Involvement in Interception
- Bibi Advocates Banning Foreign Funding of Israeli NGOs, Echoes Putin’s Russia
- Pro-Settler Rabbi Tells IDF Troops Vatican and Hezbollah Conspire to Exterminate Jews
Related posts brought to you by Yet Another Related Posts Plugin.
Tags: georgia invasion, poland cannot go unpunished, Russia Lashes Out on Missile Deal
![Image of West-East Divan [DVD Video]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MAqFcHK-L._SL110_.jpg "West-East Divan [DVD Video]")
I understand that SimoHurtta spports the idependance of Chechens, Ossetians, Georgians, Latinos in the US, French Canadians, American Indians etc.
I wonder if SimoHurtta supports the independance of Jews.
I wonder if SimoHurtta supports the independance of Jews.
As much I support the independence of Christians, Muslims , Hindus, Mormons etc. :)
By the way Finland as many other democratic countries has Jewish members of Parliament. Are those persons not free? Come-on.
Amir should the US Jews demand and get a own “free” area in USA? How about those who convert to Judaism?
Claiming that a religion is a nation/tribe is somewhat “amusing”. If a Russian “village” converted to Judaism lets say 300 years ago, does that really make them “original” Jews from Judea? Are those people in Latin America, Asia etc whose ancestors did more or less voluntarily choose Christianity actually Europeans?
Well if you claim that Jews around the world are a nation you are entitled to that opinion. Personally I see that claim a little difficult to understand. Well if Mormons (for example) want to be a nation, should we “deny” that claim made based common history, believes, traditions and shared religion?
@SimoHurtta: Jews are a nation, religion and people. You may not like it & may disagree with it. But our history simply refutes you.
@SimoHurtta:
I think we fought a Civil War in this country that prevented the southern states from seceding. Thankfully, the south isn’t listening to yr rather silly advice.
If you don’t believe the Serbs under Milosevic engaged in ethnic cleansing & other war crimes then far be it from me to convince you otherwise. If he hadn’t have died in prison the International Court would’ve convicted of such crimes though perhaps you’d reject the findings. As for the independence movements in the former Yugoslavia–are you claiming all those countries were goaded into their fervor by shady “outside forces??”
I’ve never heard such a charge & would like to see some credible proof.
During WWII, when Finland was attacked by Stalin if there had been an Israel & an IDF would you have refused Israeli help? When you are in dire straits as a nation you accept help where you can find it.
Individual Europeans may “understand” Russian attitudes but the prevailing sentiment among the majority of Europeans is quite critical of Russia. This is the 2nd time you’ve claimed w. no proof that Europeans support Russia’s invasion of Georgia. That’s a bit much I think.
I am reading progressive European media covering the Russian invasion & I’m seeing precious little support for Russia. So yr claim about my bias is unfounded.
Russia through its own actions has brought on a repeat of the Cold War. It has used its economic clout to freeze countries it doesn’t like. It has expropriated foreign businesses which it covets. And now it has invaded a neighbor. It has shown it is little more than a very powerful bannana republic run by a quasi-dictator in democratic clothing.
You are welcome to currying favor with the Bear. You are welcome to mollifying it. But remember what happened to those who attempted to appease Stalin both inside & outside the Soviet Union. He steamrollered over them & they ended up in Siberia or dead. Putin isn’t Stalin. But he has definite leanings in that direction.
He is a Russian oligarch who owes his position & wealth to Putin. What respect should anyone accord him? He is little more than a Jewish quisling.
Richard:
Now I’m afraid you’ve contracted some of SimoHurtta’s confusion yourself ;-) The idea of an atheist member of any religion is indeed absurd, it’s a contradiction in terms. A member of an ethnicity however can adopt or renounce any religion s/he likes. A descendant of a Jewish mother can certainly be an atheist, but an adherent of Judaism (the religion) can by definition not.
Michael Weis:
So? If an Australian Aborigine converted to Judaism, would that somehow magically make him ethnically related to an Ashkenazi Jew?
We’d have far less confusion if there were different terms for the religious, ethnical, and tribal identities of Jews, all of which are of course legitimate, but not identical.
To SimoHurtta and anyone else interested in the ‘Jewish atheist’ thing -
The Straight Dope has a highly interesting column on this very topic, “Can you be an atheist and still be Jewish?”:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mjewish.html
The world cannot be divided into distinct nations where each person can be identified as belonging to one nation and is not connected in any way to any other nation. If Jews are not a nation, then which nation do I belong to? I’d like to know.
Nations define themselves and no nation in the history of the world was given territiry. If a nation has territory it’s because it fought for it in one way or another. If the Jewish nation decided to accept converts into the tribe, that’s nobody elses business.
BTW, historically, religion and nationhood usually went together, just look at Finland’s flag (I wonder how Finlad’s Jews identify with that flag).
There are a few million Jews who identify with a common religion, language, territory and heritage and they live in Israel. Many non-Israelis identify with them as well. I’m asking, do these Jews deserve independence according to SimmoHurrta’s logic or not? It doesn’t matter that there are people who define themselves as Jews who do not identify with Israel just as it doesn’t matter that some French Canadians want independence and others do not.
Mind you, it doesn’t really matter what you think because our nationhood and state are not dependent on your good will (or any other Finn’s goodwill) but rather by our ability to maintain statehood.
amir:
Your state is self-evidently dependent on your ability to maintain statehood, but your nation? That’s the first time I see a Jew claim that between 136 and 1948 there existed no Jewish nation…
In the days when relations between tribes were ruled by the law of the jungle (or the desert in this case) no one was given territory, and they had to fight for it, I agree.
I stand corrected. Our nation was kept alive by other means during the years we did not have a state (faith, torah, language (yiddish, ladino, hebrew) etc.).
Relations between states are still ruled by the “law of the jungle”, though the rules and terrain may have changed to accomodate for technology. What’s happening in Georgia should make that clear.
@fiddler:
I always find it amazing that people are willing to comment decisively on subjects about which they know so little. In fact, you certainly can be Jewish and an atheist. An atheist can, if he or she wishes, participate in Jewish rituals, pray with the community, etc. And before you say ask why an atheist would do such a thing, you should realize that a good number might do so for various reasons. Unfortunately, Judaism & Jews don’t adhere to yr pat theological definitions.
You are confusing Catholicism with Judaism. The latter has no set of required beliefs in order for one to be a member in good standing.
Richard – you are waaaay off the mark on this one.
This is a global game, between the Western Alliance (“freedom” and “free market” – notice the “, they are there for a purpose) and the Russian Federation.
The game is for power, political clout, and of course natural resources which are rapidly running out – and, as always, big money.
Russia is 110% right on this one, and USA, Israel (read up on the Israel ties to Georgia, how Israelis trained them and sold them advanced weapons etc – also how the Georgian defense minister happens to be an Israeli – quelle bizzarre, eh?).
I was born in Poland and have an in born dislike of Russia as the traditional bully and enemy, but in this case they are 110% in the right.
I wrote extensively on this on my blog – in fact, this war has galvanized me to restart my blogging addiction (and splurge on fast internet in this hell hole).
Sorry, was supposed to read “Russia is 110% right on this one, and USA, Israel” are in the wrong.
Do not forget – on the first day of the Olympic games, Georgian troops delivered a surprise, punishing artillery and GRAD (modern Katyushas) bombardment aimed at Ossetian villages, towns and their capital city – these are civilian targets, and what Georgians did IS a war crime, no ifs, buts about it.
@americangoy:
I can’t believe someone of Polish descent would cozy up to the Russian bear as you have. First the Georgian attack did not happen in a vacuum. For weeks before Georgia attacked, Ossetian separatists along w. their Russian military allies were bombarding Georgian villages and Georgian civilians were being disappeared in Ossetia.
I do not justify or defend the Georgian invasion. But it did not happen in a vacuum. And to accuse Georgia of war crimes is simply swallowing Russian propaganda hook, line, & sinker. And if we want to talk about war crimes, can you promise you’ll support hauling Ossetian militia leaders before international tribunals for the entire Georgian villages which have been burned to the ground in both Ossetia & Georgia itself.
And how, pray tell do you justify Russia’s continuing occupation of Georgian territory & its troops being 20 miles from Tblisi? Or don’t you feel Russia should have to follow the norms of international relations?
@Andy: This is a terrific source & I note the money quote:
@Richard: I think you misunderstood me. I didn’t deny that Jews could be atheists, in fact I agreed. Also, I was probably using a broader definition of “atheist” than you, not limited to the literal “without God”, but rather as “without religion” or spirituality. (Using the narrow definition would make e.g. Buddhists, who know no personal God, atheists, which doesn’t make sense to me.)
My point was that there are several levels of meaning of “Jewish” – religious, ethnic, tribal – and that’s a recipe for confusion. In that sense I disagreed with your statement that the fact that Jews can be atheists was a beauty of your religion. I’m certainly not telling anybody if they’re Jewish or not.
“I can’t believe someone of Polish descent would cozy up to the Russian bear as you have. ”
Oh come now now – I look at an event, find the truth and go for it. I am a speak my mind kind of guy – I tell you what I think.
“And to accuse Georgia of war crimes is simply swallowing Russian propaganda hook, line, & sinker.”
No, it is calling a spade a spade.
International law states that deliberate targetting of civilian targets is a war crime. That is what Georgia did. End of discussion on that one.
“And how, pray tell do you justify Russia’s continuing occupation of Georgian territory & its troops being 20 miles from Tblisi?”
The same way that Americans, French, British, Polish, Canadian, Soviet troops found themselves on German (Nazi) soil.
Funny, no one then protested that the Western Allies nor the Soviets were somehow “expanding beyond the zone of conflict”, as the media here would have us believe.
What – the allies were supposed to stop at the German border? Let us not be ridiculous.
Georgia needed to be punished for naked aggression and deliberate targetting of civilians – and they were punished.
@americangoy:
But you haven’t. You’ve only found a “truth” that’s comfortable to you but doesn’t at all reflect the full reality.
And still not a word about the Russian Ossetian provocations including artillery barrages against civilian villages & disappearances of Georgian civilians which provoked Georgia’s action? Come come. A tad unbalanced aren’t we? And Georgia occupied Ossetian territory for at most a day or so. Russia has occupied Georgia for a week now & its Ossetian allies have committed unspeakable & far worse crimes against civilians than Georgia did. And yet this you support. Yr perspective deserves no respect & will get none. It’s moral blindness & pro-Russian sycophantism.
And comparing Georgia and Russia’s occupation of it with the Allies occupation of Germany after WWII is of a piece with the rest of yr shoddy political “analysis.”