.jpg){kind=small}
mini.jpg)
You are currently browsing comments. If you would like to return to the full story, you can read the full entry here: “15 Year-Old Palestinian Boy Beaten Unconscious by Israeli Prison Guards Becomes Latest Suicide Bomber”.
Tags: gaza war, qassam-rockets
The banner on this blog reads Tikkun Olam but the website’s real name is Bad News From Israel, isn’t it?
(Seriously, if you want this deception to succeed, you need to be a little more subtle with your Israel-bashing.)
Another way of looking at it, is that at the age of fifteen Harbawi was already a Hamas terrorist and that is the reason he was arrested. He probably shouldn’t have been released from prison in the first place. When Willie Horton was released on furlough and then raped a woman after knifing her fiancee, nobody claimed it was prison that made him violent. Most people understood that it was a mistake to let him out of prison in the first place. This is especially true of Hamas terrorists.
Agreed amir.
So what we should do is arrest all Pali boys and men, ages 15 and above. Then lock them up, periodically taking them out of their cages to beat them.
We should have camps for these people – lets call them Balkan model camps for moslems, or perhaps just go with concentration camps – and surround these camps with barbed wire.
We should have an indoctrinated force – not the regular IDF army – a politically indoctrinated force, lets call them security staff – SS in short – to guard these camps, and take actions for the security of the state of Israel. Regular IDF boys might be too lenient when dealing with these bandits.
I applaud your vision for Israel amir.
A rather remarkable, audacious & ignorant statement. You have absolutely no basis on which to make such a judgment other than the fact that the boy was in an Israeli prison. You don’t know why or anything else about the matter. Yet you automatically make the presumption that Israeli intelligence services must know what they’re doing & he has to be guilty. As I said–rather remarkable.
I rather like American Goy’s oneupmanship proposal. I’d amend it & do something more along the lines of Pharaoh. Why don’t we just kill all newborn Palestinian children so they won’t ever grow up to be terrorists–or anything else.
Rich:
The defense of children international, palestine division. You have got to be kidding.
RS – as presumptuous as my comment was, your post was equally if not more presumptuous. We don’t even know if it’s the same Mohammed Harbawi, though the age fits. But there must be at least half a dozen Mohammed Harbawi’s in the terrorirsts village of the same age.
American Goy’s comment is so preposterous that it’s not even worth my time. Isnt that called making a straw man argument?
Bill: I sort of glad I don’t know you Bill & never want to. Sometimes you come across as the world’s greatest class-A asshole as in this comment. What–do you think Palestinian children don’t need defending? You think children held in prisons don’t need monitoring?
Amir: You must know very little about Bernard Avishai. Since you don’t, I”ll tell you I trust his judgment & research capabilities more than yours or even mine. If he believes it’s the same al-Harbawi I trust him. Now, go and prove it isn’t.
You once acted all huffy when I accused you of being racist. I was too tired & annoyed to go back over yr hundreds of comments to find anything especially egregious. But now you’ve saved me the trouble. This little phrase takes the cake. You ARE a despicable racist. And what IS a “terrorist village?” A village where everyone is a terrorist? Where little babies are taught to throw hand grenades & mix explosives with their mother’s milk. I find this comment repulsive. Now go and complain about how badly I’m treating you.
No, it actually reads “tikun olam,” but I won’t dock you points for yr inattention to spelling.
No, it isn’t. I don’t create the news by the way. I just report it. If you have problems with the news out of Israel maybe you could suggest to your friends in the IDF or Israeli government that they provide less gruesome news.
Actually, the bashing was done by the five Israeli prison guard thugs who beat a 15 yr old boy unconscious & helped turned him into a suicide bomber. Gee, I wonder what those five guys are feeling right about now? I doubt they have any sense of responsibility for this event. Beating up teenagers is part of the job responsibility I guess.
And if they hadn’t bashed the boy then I wouldn’t be reporting the story now would I? I’d like nothing more than having nothing of this nature to report here in this blog. Unfortunately, some Israeli authorities provide all too much fodder for it.
Richard;
Thanks for uncovering this information, the significance of which is indicated by examining the nature of the several ungrateful responses submitted by the first four Israeli apologists.
When the Israelis terrorize Palestinians, including children, they know full well that they are providing them with the motive for revenge. The Israelis need such properly motivated Palestinians to occasionally be seen resisting, i.e. attacking, the Israeli occupation and control of the Palestinian people, events which they can use as news reports to continuously reinvigorate the intensification of the occupation, the aim of which is to drive as many Palestinians as possible from Palestine.
The behavior of this boy can be understood and explained. He was, like so many hundreds of thousands of Palestinian children, a victim of state terror, kidnapped, taken to a foreign state, imprisoned, beaten, tormented and, virtually destroyed. We must not be silent about this situation. Again, thank you.
Richard Silverstein said:Amir: You must know very little about Bernard Avishai. Since you don’t, I”ll tell you I trust his judgment & research capabilities more than yours or even mine. If he believes it’s the same al-Harbawi I trust him. Now, go and prove it isn’t.
You seem to have this backward; the burden of proof should be on the one making the accusations here. In any case, his “research capabilities’ consisted of a google search!
And if they hadn’t bashed the boy then I wouldn’t be reporting the story now would I? I’d like nothing more than having nothing of this nature to report here in this blog. Unfortunately, some Israeli authorities provide all too much fodder for it.
And if Hamas hadn’t given him the explosives and told him to go blow himself up you wouldn’t have a story here either. Killing people is so much more justified than beating them? Why I don’t see a comarable condemnation of Hamas on your site? And before we assume that Israel made him into a suicide bomber, how about a little background on the reason he was arrested in the first place?
I believe that what had happen to him was most likely the reason why he was driven to this and I believe that is true of all suicide bombers. if you asked every one of them I believe that they would tell you a heartbreaking story of the dignity and pride that was taken away form them by someone else and feeling absolutely powerless was driven they felt to this only act in which they could take matters into there own hands. Is it right I don’t know what happened to them maybe an eye for an eye was justice. I am not God but I feel that every man and women goes through certain things in life either to make them stronger or weaker it is the ones who can go through these trials and continue to walk with their heads held high that will truely change the world. Revenge may be a way to change things but it is not always the right way.
Don’t worry about the sheep, Richard, it’s one of the great propaganda triumphs of the 20th century that any comments not 100% pro-Israel are automatically anti-Semitic. People who use their minds to think and not merely repeat know that for the fallacy it is.
Amir seriously – grab a WW2 book about German anti partisan operations and see the language used in official documents. Things like “bandit village”, “preventive execution”, “bandits” are mentioned repeatedly.
In fact, if I can be so crass as to spam my blog, I have a blog post about that with actual documents from WW2 about the German occupation of the (then) Soviet Union lands and they sound surprisingly (or not too surprising come to think of it) like your statements here:
http://americangoy.blogspot.com/2008/01/counter-insurgency-americangoy-explains.html
If you cannot be bothered, the whole point of my post was to show people the German documentation, which was all about taking hostages, public executions, dealing with “bandits”, terrorist villages and the like, and then my statement at the end:
If you, Americans want to stay in Israel or you, Israelis, want to stay in the West Bank and possibly reoccupy Gaza, then:
“The stuff that happened at Abu Ghraib – electrodes in genitalia, rapes of prisoners, siccing of dogs at prisoners, mock executions, beatings, deprivation of sleep and forcing prisoners to stand in cold rooms for hours on end, this stuff is not abnormal in a counter insurgency war.
That is the norm.
It is a necessity.
So, as an American, YOU need to ask yourself one question:
‘Do we need to occupy Iraq?’
If you answer ‘Yes’, then you have to accept Abu Ghraib type prisons and all that entails.”
I also have a movie for you to see amir. It is about the French counter insurgency techniques in Algeria when the Algerians revolted against being a territory of France in the 50′s and early 60′s. Again, sorry to spam my blog, but I do have a link to that movie on it:
http://americangoy.blogspot.com/2008/01/must-see-movie.html
The movie starts with an Algerian prisoner who just gave away his comrades position after a torture session and goes from there. This movie is rarely shown on American TV – it was showed once on American Movie Classic because Danny DeVito hailed it as his favorite movie. Made the host who interviewed Danny very uncomfortable, and he switched the topic from politics to Italian cinema and other films.
The thing that stuck me from this movie is the French paratroop general, an expert in unconventional warfare, a true pro, telling the reporters:
“The words of the elite force parachute general to reporters, who were asking him about the soldiers using torture and informants in an effort crush the Arab rebellion, will stay with me forever, as they sum up the dilemma of a democracy in an untenable situation: “I’ll ask you a question myself: Should France stay in Algeria? If the answer is still yes, you’ll have to accept all the necessary consequences.”.
Seems Mr. van Creveld and myself agree. This situation is UNTENABLE for a democracy. Got that, amir?
access should be accept – sorry.
The least Amir could of done was to provide plausible proof to support his ’15 year old terrorist’ hypothesis. Real terrorists are the likes of Amir that preach hate. No justice no peace, wake up world.
I will never understand why Israel and the Israeli Lobby does not understand the consequences of their brutality toward Palestinians. Unfortunatley, the consequences of their brutality falls on each and every American as well. Where did Israel and the neocons come up with the stupidity — “The Arabs only understand force”? Does anyone know?
There are terrorist in the world because there is a root of war on this planet. The root of war is when humans mimic and think like animals. This happens on legalized cockfighting farms. Terrorist are caught in the world as a whole and something happened to them in their childhoods to make them do what they do. War is one step up from legalized cockfighting. The way humans treat animals is the way they treat each other. Just look at the wars in the world. If we destroy the root of war (legalized cockfighting) we will save Humanity and there would be no terrorist. PEACE.
If the Palestinians really think of themselves as the Jews of Nazi Germany why don’t they treat the left-wing peace groups (such as this blog) as freedom fighters? I have never seen a public statement from a Palestinian applauding and supporting the help that such groups try to provide. There were no memorials or marches to commemorate the death of Rachel Cory, yet they fire those stupid rifles off for the death of every violent ‘martyr’.
I want to feel empathy with the Palestinians but they make it really hard when they choose violence over peace and cooperation.
Who victimized this immature child more? The Israelis who imprisoned him, or Hamas who killed him?
I have never seen a public statement from a Palestinian applauding and supporting the help that such groups try to provide. There were no memorials or marches to commemorate the death of Rachel Cory, yet they fire those stupid rifles off for the death of every violent ‘martyr’.
I’m sorry to be so blunt about this, but this is a HIGHLY IGNORANT statement. I doubt you have ever read a news article from a Palestinian source, if you think that you can blithely claim that “There were no memorials…”
Here’s an incomplete listing from a routine Google search of about 15 minutes duration:
Memorial March in Rafah, Gaza in 2003
http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/Palestine/031803_memorials_for_rachel.htm
Bethlehem Candle Memorial 2003
http://www.bobmay.info/rachel_corrie_candle_memorial.htm
Memorial page with links to Palestinian memorials
http://criticalconcern.com/memorials.htm
“The Beautiful Face of the United States”
Tribute to Corrie from Imad Jadaa, Palestinian Ambassador to Cuba
http://www.spectrezine.org/war/Corrie.htm
Gaza children commemorate fourth anniversary of Rachel Corrie’s death
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article6684.shtml
“Rachel, my mother” written by a 12 year old Gaza girl on the one year anniversary of Rachel’s death
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2513.shtml
Gazan branch of Union of HWC to name new cultural enter after Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1289.shtml
Gaza Community Mental Health Programme names “Rachel Corrie Center for Women’s Empowerment”
http://www.gcmhp.net/File_files/rachelcorrienamed.html
This is by no means a complete listing, and obviously, there is more to life than what shows up on Google. What’s apparent is that there have been memorials in Gaza and the West Bank for Rachel right after her death and every anniversary afterwards. There have also been buildings and programs named in her honor and even children named after her. There have also been many non-violent actions initiated by the Palestinians against the 40 year long occupation. All of them have met with violent reaction from the IDF, and a lack of coverage in the US.
So, please, if you really do “want to feel empathy wih the Palestinians” then start expanding your sources of information. They are obviously sadly quite limited if you truly think that they did not laud Corrie for her non-violent action and courage and that Palestinians, despite 40 years of violent occupation, have not engaged in non-violent protest. Just because you haven’t heard of something, doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.
“the terrorirsts village”
That should say “terrorist’s village” as in the village from where the terrorist came from. There’s nothing racist about that.
If Harbawi had been kept in prison he would be alive today. But he was released back into the hands of Hamas where they decided that it was his turn to die. They killed him on purpose. A 20 year old man who, if it wasn’t for Hamas, may have made something of himself. So they put a suicide vest on him and sent him on a path to death in order to murder Israeli civilians. This is so sickening that I get nauseous typing it. Keeping him in prison would have been the humane thing for Israel to do. Now there is this human tragedy, for both Palestinians and Israelis, and the only angle that you find interesting is that maybe this same guy, who was already arrested (he may already have on the fast track to martyrdom) may have been beaten by thuggish Israeli police/soldiers and “may have helped him turn into a suicide bomber”. No, Richard you are wrong. Thuggish police are to be found all over the world but suicide bombers can not be found all over the world. What turned Harbawi into a suicide bomber was a sickening ideology and a certain way of interperting Islam and an organization and a lot of people supporting and helping him out logisitically and otherwise. What allows this to continue, in part, is the moral confusion which has overtaken much of liberal Western society.
You obviously don’t want me to post comments on your blog so I will not do so anymore.
The beating happened first. Without the beating you likely don’t have a suicide bomber.
Because you’re too lazy to actually read my blog to find it. I take it you’re either in the U.S. Army or else serving in some capacity at the Wiesbaden base. I do hope you do a better job of reading yr service manuals than you do of reading my blog.
I’d like to know that as well.
IdahoGirl: With all due respect, I think you don’t know very much about Palestinians. There were indeed memorials for Rachel Corrie. And I am in very close contact with many Arabs and a few Palestinians as well. Not all Palestinians or Arabs support what I write here (the same is true of Jews & Israelis) but many do. I think you’re overgeneralizing w/o enough support.
I find it offensive that you would conclude that a 15 yr old boy was a “terrorist” merely because he was in an Israeli prison. 15 yr old Palestinians can be put in prison for unfurling a Palestinian flag, throwing a rock at an IDF jeep, cursing a Border Policeman, etc. Or they can be in prison for a more violent act that might come close to justifying the term “terrorist.” Neither one of us knows precisely why he was there yet you’re willing to go the distance & damn him w/o any other proof than his designation by the IDF as a child worthy of incarceration.
Again, you have it ass backwards. The IDF & Israeli prison system got to him before Hamas did. Hamas exploited his humiliation at the hands of the Occupation forces. That is certainly damnable on their part. But as I’ve written–no Occupation, no humiliation, no suicide bombing. Israel was the first cause. Hamas only took advantage of the poison the Israeli prison guards pummeled into his body.
What turned Harbawi into a suicide bombers was a sickening Occupation ideology & a certain way of interpreting Judaism & Zionism and a State and a lot of people supporting & helping the Occupation logistically & otherwise. You see 2 can play this game.
No, I don’t want you to call entire villages “terrorist villages.” My comment rules specifically prohibit such racism. Since you’ve explained that you didn’t intend yr comment to be racist I will rescind your ban. Instead of being racist your comment was merely deeply offensive. But I won’t ban you for that.
Can we think of anyone who was held for over five years in an enemy prison, severely beaten and tortured and didn’t end up a hateful suicidal bomber? Maybe he ended up a senator and candidate for US president?
Maybe the hate comes from somewhere else after all.
AmericanGoy: I think you’re talking about The Battle of Algiers, which IS one of the great films of the 20th century & extremely relevant to the current war in Iraq & the Israeli Occupation.
Yes.
Thru the magic of the internet, it is available on youtube.
Goodness – its highly illegal to watch it that way and I do recommend you buy it.
You’re talking about a highly trained U.S. Navy pilot who was shot down, captured & tortured by the N. Vietnamese. And not only that, McCain’s father was a decorated Navy admiral so he was steeped in a military tradition. And you think that John McCain doesn’t have internal devils to deal w. as a result of his suffering? Al-Harbawi was a 15 yr old boy, not a trained soldier & not even an adult. The choices he made were horrible. But most of us can understand what he did while not agreeing with it.
[...] an elderly woman when he detonated a suicide bomb in Dimona. Back when he was 15, Al-Harbawi was beaten unconscious by Israeli security [...]