Rabbi Rotter’s Son, Undercover Jerusalem Police Officer, Incites Violence Against Sheikh Jarrah Protesters
For those not steeped in Israeli culture, there is an online forum called Rotter that plays a unique role in certain segments of Israeli society. It’s a cross between FoxNews, Matt Drudge, DebkaFiles and NewsMax. It is a wildly popular internet forum (Alexa ranks it 83rd in Israel) that deals in everything from celebrity gossip to political scoops and intelligence matters, all with a far-right political focus. It’s especially known for its brand of vituperative, scabrous political debate, sorta like the Jerusalem Post talkbacks on steroids. I’m routinely called “Terrorist” there as if it were my first name, which I wear of course as a badge of courage.
Rotter.net was founded in 1999 by Rabbi Yeshayahu Rotter, who now runs the site with at least a few of his children helping administer and moderate it. Meir Rotter, 37, married and the father of two, is Yeshayahu’s son and serves as a police officer in Jerusalem. In a Wikipedia discussion, his sister Tamar confirms that her brother is a police officer.
He is a fixture at the weekly Sheikh Jarrah demonstrations where he’s been assigned for the past six months. You can see him “in action” toward the end of this Sheikh Jarrah video in which he steals a Palestinian flag from the hands of an Israeli demonstrator. He’s known to be a particularly nasty, odious presence wearing his enormous blue settler-style skullcap, wraparound sunglasses, and a pistol strapped to his waist (see picture). Since he never wears a police uniform at the protests, he would appear to be a plain clothes officer. Frankly, I can’t quite figure out why he’d be there in plain clothes dressed as a settler. He wouldn’t be fooling anyone.
Most of this could be figured out pretty easily using public and online records. But what is hitherto unknown is that an Israeli source tells me that Meir Rotter is not only an administrator of Rotter, but a member who posts under the name Kafe, some of the most offensive material inciting violence against the Sheikh Jarrah demonstrators. He routinely calls them “leftist fascist, anti-Zionist, post-Israeli.” That Meir Rotter is a police officer isn’t news. That a Rotter administrator posts material advocating violence against lawful Israeli citizens isn’t news either. But the fact that a police officer paid by the Jerusalem municipality ostensibly to enforce the law and keep the peace speaks of knives and axes as “legitimate means of protest” should open a few eyes somewhere.
It certainly won’t open the eyes of Doron Zahavi, the former IDF torturer of Mustafa Dirani, who is the now the Jerusalem police “liaison” to the East Jerusalem Arab community. Undoubtedly, Zahavi and Rotter work together, perhaps in the same unit. Perhaps Zahavi is teaching Rotter a thing or two about torturing Arabs, just as the former’s subordinates sodomized Dirani in an Israeli prison several years ago.
There is compelling evidence to support the claim that Kafe and Rotter fils are one and the same person. First, Kafe was one of the earliest members to sign up for the forum (on October 21, 2001) just after it was revamped in the format it presently has. Second, for the past seven months many of his posts deal with the Sheikh Jarrah protests and police affairs related to them. In particular, they often deal with intelligence about either the Israeli protestors or the East Jerusalem Arab community. This is intelligence that would only be available or even interesting to either a police officer or a Shabak agent.
The image above on the right is from one of the hikes Rotter leads in the West Bank for his religious-nationalist acolytes. Here one of the participants names Rotter and refers to pictures that he took on one of these hikes. Another gallery on the same Picasa account displays images of Rotter himself (see right-hand image above) leading the hikes.
There is another stylistic element of Rotter’s writing that nails his identity as Kafe. In Wikipedia, he writes (in Hebrew) under his own name:
Often the number in Shomron reaches into the hundreds! of hikers.
In Rotter, he writes as Kafe:
Every day, my dear friend receives free, at no cost! these two newspapers at the doorstep of his home.
I’d say it’s a pretty rare thing for two different people to place exclamation marks in the middle of sentences as Rotter has done here. Using brackets [!] would not be unusual, but unbracketed is highly so.
I think the State might take an interest that one of its police officers is writing material like the following. Keep in mind that these are entirely non-violent demonstrations at which the only violence comes from the side of the police:
We should bring some yellow spray paint and spray the rioting anarchists and their band of left-wing fascists who join and even lead them. With the slogan: “Paint the traitors yellow [the color of cowardice], we’ll tar and feather ’em for the traitors against their people and terrorists against the state that they are.
Since axes, knives and clubs are a legitimate form of protest, spray paint will be my favorite weapon.
Or that he here advocates stoning protestors and vandalizing their property. Keep in mind that there is never any violence of any kind at the Friday Sheikh Jarrah protest except that perpetrated by the police against the protesters:
The anarchists view it as suitable to express their protests using massive stones thrown at vehicles, homes and people [in Sheikh Jarrah], why should we not wait for them at the exit of the village and take the same form of protest to them and their vehicles. Why wouldn’t they think that legitimate?
At last Friday’s Sheikh Jarrah protest, my source reveals that Officer Rotter “brutally assaulted” three demonstrators. It sounds like he’s a very loose cannon prone to do some serious and personal damage if not reined in.
Here (Hebrew original) our favorite officer of the law even lumps the policies of the Israeli government with those of the “anarchists” and radical Islamists:
Not all is rosy in East Jerusalem. The policy of the Israeli government itself, along with the activism of the leftist-fascist-anarchists in the eastern part of the city, and including the unceasing attempts by the PA and/or the Islamic Movement –they all cause severe harm to the control of the State of Israel over Jerusalem. The topic of what the Arabs really want [to destroy Israel] is never broached in Israeli [political] discussion.
Kafe advocates an iron hand against the Palestinian community. He suggests that protests must be isolated to the Arab villages and not be allowed to spread to the streets of the city. His ultimate goal is that the Jewish residents of the city never even hear about the protests in their own city except in the media. The price, if there is any, will be paid by the Arabs themselves who will harm, or so he claims, only themselves and not the city’s Jewish residents.
Rotter seems obsessed with the notion that the protests might spread outside East Jerusalem and infect Jewish neighborhoods. That would be, in his fervid imagination, making the mistake that any government makes when faced with civil unrest and chaotic conditions. If you engage even a moment’s doubt and fail to use every means at your disposal to violently clamp down, you will find the bastards running down your own street committing acts of hooliganism and God knows what to Jews. Before you know it you’ll have anarchy and Arabs taking over the country.
Rotter/Kafe is contemptuous of the gutless Israeli media (Hebrew original):
Once again, the Israeli media in its true ugliness and degradation
It’s no secret that the Israeli media, by and large, is precisely like the UN, hypocrites, anti-Zionist, post-Israeli. A megaphone and platform for the extreme leftist-anarchist agenda. Yes, yes, they’ll deny it and say that anyone making such a claim is a fascist, someone who suppresses democratic rights and shuts people up. They say that their role must be to expose and question and all sorts of bullshit coming from their demagogic lips.
In a survey of media coverage of Sheikh Jarrah we find not just hypocritical lies and falsification of facts, because the tendency in such coverage is toward a post-Israel, anti-Zionist, racist ideology which negates the rights of Jews to the Land of Israel
In a later portion of the same post, he brags that he persuaded a good friend to cancel the two subscriptions to Israeli daily newspapers which he had. One was to Haaretz. He didn’t specify the name of the other but it would either be Maariv or Yediot Achronot. It is an indication of just how radical his political views are that he cast scorn even on these two dailies known for their right-of-center reporting.
UPDATE: Earlier today, Meir Rotter posted a reply to this post at an Israeli police officer’s online forum in which he acknowledged that he is an officer assigned to Sheikh Jarrah and that he is Rabbi Rotter’s son. He denies that he is a moderator of the Rotter forum (because his father won’t pay him!). But he specifically does not either mention or deny the most important claim of my source, that he is the Rotter member, Kafe. There is a principle in the law: “silence is assent.” It applies here.
I’m afraid my source may’ve passed this information on to me because s/he was afraid that if it was revealed in Israel alone Meir Rotter might receive a promotion, instead of being disciplined. At least, if a foreign media source reports the matter, it may be treated as more than a curiosity.
It will surprise no one that the Jerusalem police force harbors in its midst violent radical settler thugs. But it may surprise Israelis that such individuals will express their venom, hate and rage in such a public setting. A question for the police superintendent to ponder: is he comfortable with his officers publicly advocating violence against peacefully, legally protesting Israeli citizens? Is that the standard of law his personnel uphold?
54 thoughts on “Rabbi Rotter’s Son, Undercover Jerusalem Police Officer, Incites Violence Against Sheikh Jarrah Protesters – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم”
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Completely off topic , just wanted to bring this to your attention >
” I don’t hate Silverstein at all, although I do think he’s obsessive and perhaps needs to relax a bit. ”
Right wing online forums having a go at you does not surprise me but shalom-salaam is supposedly a Peace Forum … ??????
Do you have a history there ?
Can you explain why someone who posts there on a daily basis and who “seems to be” a Left wing Israeli holds such disregard for you and your views ?
That site is composed of a broad cross section of members, some of whom are progressive and a larger number who are Jewish & Israeli liberals. And the views of those can be quite center-right when it comes to Israeli security.
I belonged to the forum for a short time after I’d initially been refused membership by the site owner. I felt the discussion went around & around in circles & people just liked hearing themselves talk endlessly w/o making any headway. That’s why I got tired of it. But I did make a few good Palestinian/Arab & one Israeli American friend there. The Arab members were the ones who lobbied the owner to admit me as a member.
” That site is composed of a broad cross section of members, ”
No its not , might have been once , now its composed of sh
sh and sh alone
she and only she is allowed to speak for all of us
I should’ve said “was composed.” There used to be some liberal ZIonists & 1 or 2 progressives who didn’t post much. The Arab posters were more uniformly progressive & were even very polite when the liberal Zionists posted stuff that was truly tone deaf, condescending & politically incorrect.
I started my own I-P forum which now has a few hundred members. ANyone here is welcome to join for more in depth discussions on the issues. I’m not involved w. it much but there are 2 good folks running it in my place. It’s called Israel Palestine Forum (http://www.israelpalestineforum.com/)
Can you explain to me the diff between “liberal Zionists and progressive” ?
I’m a left wing post-zionist , vote and support Hadash .
I will check out your forum but not really into joining one more into reading and learning .
” But it may surprise Israelis that such individuals will express their venom, hate and rage in such a public setting.”
no Richard it does not surprise me , you should see and feel the venom, hate and rage that we get on the public streets when we are out protesting , and lets not forget their violence towards peaceful protesters .
Thanks for your article and for all that you do , have a link from me , you might know it already
and think positive man , things will change , the Meir Rotter’s of our world exist but there is enough of us out there that wont let them run the roost much longer
Richard, a small sidepoint, but as far as I am aware, the policeforce in Israel is a national force and, unlike the US, is in no way under the jurisdiction of local municipalities.
Your criticism should be directed to the government or to the minister of internal security and not to the Jerusalem munucipality.
Do you have any idea why the peaceful protesters who are eye-witnesses don’t file a complaint to “mahash” (the address for complaints against the police) concerning Rotter? By law they have to investigate, and you say it appears on video.
Thanks for correcting my error about police jurisdiction in Israel.
I will urge them to do so. Now that the information is in a public forum perhaps it will get more visibility inside Israel. What I’m hoping at least.
There are plenty of videos of police violence in shiekh jarrah. One of times I was there an officer cursed us and someone taped it.
Doesn’t do much good.
Infact, the police often violently arrest protesters for no reason, and the judges usually have no problem with that.
You will not find a SINGLE judge who has EVER had “no problem” remanding someone “for no reason”. (let alone “USUALLY have no problem”)
You may disagree with many things that happen in our country, but to add fuel to an already out of control fire is inexcusable.
The onus of proof must be on you to prove your far reaching and unjustified statement! חזור בך
All I have to say about police violence in Israel is this:
I got to translate it. If you can read the Hebrew, Shmuel, read that. It’s here: http://eyalniv.wordpress.com/?p=3434 – and follow the links.
No, I’m afraid it’s you who is naive. Judges in Israel routinely rubber stamp police testimony even when it’s full of lies. They routinely accept whatever they’re told by the state’s representatives & routinely reject what is offerered by victims. The examples are too numerous to count: Ezra Nawi, Ameer Makhoul, Abu Rahme, etc.
wow, shmuel, you really have no idea what’s going on do you.
For one thing, it’s the courts that originally ruled in favor of the ethnic cleansing of shiekh jarrah. Protesters often get court orders not to go back there for some time. As far as I know our precious judges never did anything about the repeated police violence.
Clearly you unaware of the screaming political bias in our “justice” system. This goes far beyond sheikh jarrah. This is the treatment leftist protesters get all the time. Guess you havn’t heard of yonatan pollack?
And this is far better then the treatment arabs get. You really have no idea how many thousands of arabs are jailed for no reason? Of note is the particularly offensive “charge” of owning-land-while-arab, for which many have been jailed for years.
You write one thing, then after I reply you change to a completely different claim to rebuff.
Let’s clear it up;
There is no judge in Israel that will remand “for no reason”.
You might disagree with the reason, but there is a reason, and the judge will state the reasons in his decision, or will state that there is classified info on which he based his decision.
That classified info (from the Shabak or police) is not of the form “Dear Judge we know things, please remand him” but rather will contain often tens of pages of information that has been gathered, like wire-tapping, e-mail interception, other people who have mentioned his connection, agents from the field who gathered info, etc.
Additionally the police or Shabak must detail EXACTLY what investigating activities they intend to do, including methods and timetable. The judge may or may also speak directly ex parte to the investigators to understand in more detail if he is in doubt. A judge will always consider alternatives to remanding, including house arrest or bail.
As for the Sheikh Jarrah example (I don’t know the facts but know enough to assume):
The demonstration is “officially illegal” as there is no police permission in advance. (I agree that that this is draconian, but judges don’t make law, they can only interpret)
If there is police brutality, then one must complain to “mahash” (the address for complaints against police). If a judge sees violence from both sides in the evidence put to him this may mitigate but not negate the charge against the demonstrator who was unlawfully there, or even if he was lawfully there, if there is prima facia evidence of violence.
As to the “stealing of land” – if the courts ruled against the Palestinian residents then it was not for no reason – there would have been evidence provided by the Jewish side of a legal transaction of selling the land which the courts upheld. If the Palestinian side clamed forgery or fraud of some sort, then their councel so it seems did not have the ability to prove it or even show reasonable doubt. If the argument is political (i.e. that no Jew should even be allowed to buy land in occupied territories, then that is at best a moral argument but by no means a legal one.
My basic point, therefore is that the judges are not whimsical, and sometimes they even allow themselves to be confused by facts presented to it. (that was cynical)
You’re not understanding the pt. When a judge remands a victim based on a lying police or Shabak charge that is essentially “for no reason.” In other words, the judge accepts the lies presented to him, does no investigation, offers no skepticism or resistance. That’s what turns the Israeli justice system into the shande it is regarding security related matters.
Sorry, again, but such a judge doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt. When he bases his remand on classified charges he hasn’t presented any reason & again, that’s “no reason.”
This is utter nonsense. The Shabak arrests & imprisons individuals who’ve done nothing wrong, nothing. Sure, they may have thousands of phone calls wiretapped but they too contain no evidence. Just look at the cases of Omar Said, Azmi Bishara, Ameer Makhoul among others. This is a travesty. And I’m offended that you would be foolish enough to try to defend the indefensible.
Wrong again. Not in security cases. And judges don’t question anything presented before them in these cases. They accept whatever the prosecution hands them, a rubber stamp.
No again, a Jerusalem judge denied a police attempt to rule these demonstrations illegal. They are not illegal under Israeli law. But the police act as if they are above the law. They essentially make their own law.
In these cases, they don’t even bother. They just phone it in.
You mean the hen has to complain to the fox’s bosses about why the fox tried to eat him?
This is utter nonsense. The settlers drive the Palestinians out by brute physical force & then turn to the courts to ratify their theft. And mainly the courts go along. You’re misunderstanding one fundamental thing: we don’t believe in Israeli justice when it comes to these matters. And many of your fellow citizens who suffer from this lawlessness agree w. us. You’re still under the quaint notion circa 1953 or so that Israel is an honest place, that judges do their jobs, and that right will win out in the end. All I can say is I’m glad for you life looks so pleasant under those rose colored glasses. Why don’t you remove them to see things for what, & the way they really are?
Try, the reality is that no Palestinian can buy or own land in West Jerusalem but Jews can steal land in East Jerusalem.
I think your answer is pure gut feeling and not really answering the points but rather just denying them.
“Mahash” is hated by the police, and they never do them favours. Police are violent in Israel, and if the victims don’t complain they’ll keep on being violent. Mahash should be flooded every day with complaints from eyewitnesses, and if one doesn’t complain he is keeping the bad system afloat.
I do know about security cases, as I sit as a judge on many of them as I’ve mentioned here before. What I wrote above is how I decide, and how all of my collegues do. Many times I and others have released on bail against the shabak or ploice recommendations.
If you are offended by what I wrote, as you state, or think that I oppose some monolithic “we think” (” we don’t believe in Israeli justice when it comes to these matters”) then you may find yourself with a blog of think alikes who all pat each other on the back all day long. I hope you prefer a discussion which also tolerates opinions counter to yours on various matters without taking offence.
Assaf Sharon registerred a formal complaint against Rotter which was dismissed before my reports were published. Even after my reports, Machash will dismiss the new formal complaint they’re filing. I’ll let you know specifically on what date its rejected. Perhaps then you’ll lose yr naivete about this. Now that you’ve read the evidence against Rotter, if Kafe & Rotter are the same, what, if any punishment should be meted out? Just curious…
Sorry, but you are but a single judge and while u seem like someone who is credible I only know you in tihs context & not in yr professional context. I can’t trust yr claims regarding yr colleagues because I know neither you nor them well enough to say you can attest for them properly.
“You write one thing, then after I reply you change to a completely different claim to rebuff”
The specifics of shiekh jarrah are irrelevant if you suffer from the all too common israeli delusional belief that “everything is ok” – the police only arrest the guilty, the army is moral, the gov’t only declares war to defend the country and all the judges rule justly. A belief that, oddly enough, only applies to political matters – an opposite belief seems to apply to anything domestic.
Yes, there is a reason – infact, two reason. One is “on paper”, such as violence, supporting terror and other rediculus lies, and another, real reason – opposing gov’t policy, owning coveted land, fighting for human rights…
That a judge would be so unaware of that is really shocking.
Richard already outlined most other flawes with your argument, but I must ask you something – do you really consider “classified information” as an acceptable reason to lock someone up?
Not just “classified information” but classified information that is revealed to no one but the Shabak & possibly the judge if he’s diligent enough to read it. This is simply unacceptable in a nation of laws and a democracy.
Of course the information contained in a classified document can be used to justify remanding without bail at the remanding stage – it is common practice in all court systems for the planned investigative procedure to be kept secret from the accused in order not to ruin the investigation. Incidently, unlike the USA, classified information cannot be presented at the later stages of proving guilt or sentencing. (Unlike the Pollard sentencing – that would be a no-no in Israel).
There are not “thousands of arabs jailed for no reason” – that is an outright lie and a disgusting libel invented by you.
You may not think that the reasons are justified (you may support violence and terrorism or belonging to terrorist associated organisations, but in Israel and most civilised country that is a crime)
Both you and Richard are blowing the “no reason” trumpet – it won’t become fact by saying these libels over and over again.
Be accurate, there are reasons, you say bad ones, others say good ones!
Not so. You simply don’t know what you’re talking about. In the U.S. there are only a very limited number of cases in which this can occur. And to qualify for such a level of secrecy there are very high hurdles placed on the govt. to prove the case merits such secrecy. Per capita the number of such cases in Israel is astronomically higher.
Israel detains tens of thousands of Palestinians as security detainees. I see no reason to doubt the number mentioned as being held on the thinnest of flimsy charges. These flimsy charges wouldn’t even be filed by most western intelligence agencies because they know it would be thrown out and tarnish their reputation. In Israel the security apparatus doesn’t have to worry about their charges being thrown out (they won’t be) or their reputation (no one can tarnish it in ways that count).
“Judge Yuval Shadmi said discrimination in the Israeli legal system’s treatment of Jewish and Arab minors, particularly in cases of what he called ‘ideologically motivated’ offenses, was ‘common knowledge.’
In the verdict, he wrote: “I will say that the state is not authorized to caress with one hand the Jewish ‘ideological’ felons, and flog with its other hand the Arab ‘ideological’ felons.”
I suggest you read the full article, Shmuel:
As for Palestinians being detained in jail for no reason, what do you say to all the thousands of people (yes, thousands) who have experienced administrative detention? Detention without charge or trial. They don’t even get near a judge in the first place. Are we to believe that the same ‘civilised country’ that permits this has got an impeccable judiciary? I don’t think so. House arrest, administrative detention, and torture are not usually signs of a flourishing healthy justice system.
“If there is police brutality, then one must complain to ‘mahash’ (the address for complaints against police).”
Shmuel, do you realise how the average Palestinian-Israeli would react if you suggested complaining about the police? They’d either laugh at your naivety, or they’d be terrified. I recommend that you read Susan Nathan’s ‘The Other Side of Israel’ to help you understand the reasons why.
Shmuel, your post might be the most elaborate way I have ever seen someone put his hands over his ears and go “blahblahblahblahblah”.
I do not support terror, and I don’t make a habit of defending the rights of terrorists.
Not only are arabs jailed for defending their rights non-violently, they are also jailed just for being a nuisence.
How about you try talking with some of the people you oppress. You might just make some shocking discoveries!
On an unrelated note – am I getting moderated again?
Look here at the adress of Meir Rotter
Either Yahoo or my browser isn’t parsing the Hebrew characters correctly. Could you send me a screenshot to look at. I also have personal identifying info about Rotter which I’m using to establish my bona fides, but I’m not releasing as my goal isn’t to invade his privacy, but rather to force his superiors to put a stop to this rampaging bull.
put your Mouse Curosr on the first email address (from the left) his email address is email@example.com
Thanks so much. I just figured it out right before I read yr comment!
And just out of curiosity, why are you so occupied with Rotter ?
it’s an insignificant site with viewers who belong to the right/ extreme right side of the political map.
a site named Fresh get’s way more exposure then rotter by the way.
so who cares what some idiot rights there ?
if you want to draw a conclusion between that and the Israeli society, you should keep looking.
if you bring it because of the commotion about the decision to investigate the financial sources of the different NGO’s (both left and right oriented, it will be amended by Bibi)
Im tirzu published a power point with what seems to be credible information about the sources of some of the organizations, if it’s true it is a reason for me as an Israeli to be concerned. there is no business for foreign countries / organizations to support such an activity (both on left and right) and the activity of those organizations should be 1000% transparent.
if the different organization would have a list on their website of their financial sources, there will be no need for anything else.
if you haven’t seen the ppt it is available here:
i would like to see who the sponsors of Honenu and other right oriented NGO’s.
That, by you, is credible? Really?
Anyway, it isn’t true. Lke pretty much everything else imti says, it’s a badly concocted bag of lies.
While all of the left groups being attacked have transperant lists of their donors, right groups like imti usually hide their funding.
83rd most popular site in all of Israel (24,000 in the world) & you say it’s insignificant? I’d love it if my blog were that “insignificant.”
Fresh’s Israel rank is 247 (international, 75,000). Frankly, I think Fresh is more hypocritical than Rotter. At least Rotter allows me (until now!) to post there. Fresh bans anyone who strays fr. the mainstream Israeli narrative. Including me.
You make a very serious error if you attribute “credibility” to anything Im Tirzu says or does. Everything they do is filled with shabby research, lies and distortion.
Sorry, but foreign countries & organizations have every right to support anything in your country as long as it is legal. Supporting democracy and human rights inside Israel was legal the last I checked. Now, if you want a country like Russia, Iran or Belarus which criminalize foreign support for domestic human rights groups, then be my guest. Let Israel join the ranks of despotic countries.
Progressive Israeli NGOs almost without an exception publish their donor lists. You can’t say the same for NGO Monitor or Im Tirzu. Why don’t you ask both for a full donor list & see how far you get? Then ask NIF for a full donor list & compare the degree of transparency.
1. usually i would agree that im tirzu aren’t very credible, and but in the presentation they made they quoted verse and passage with links to where they found the information, so even an idiot like me can check their claims and not be dependent upon them, and it does look credible.
2. in my opinion everyone should publish their donor list, right and left. on their website.
3. i have a real problem with NGO’s accepting money from the same organizations that provide monthly allowance for the family of those who committed suicide attacks – this is one of the claims in the im-tirzu report.
4. in the US it is prohibited by parties to receive campaign donations from foreign sources, this is not any different. and like you like saying…what’s good for the goose etc.
5. Rotter is insignificant because it serves a very small part of the population. Your site on the other hand reaches further out to all kind of people therefore in my opinion more significant.
No, you’re wrong. You’re mixing apples & oranges. NGOs here can receive funds fr. abroad just as they can in Israel. In Israel, political parties can receive funds fr. abroad but they cannot in the U.S. Let’s apply the rules in the U.S. to Israel, both on political parties AND NGOs, OK? No Jewish fatcat donations for Bibi anymore, but NGOs would be allowed to take funds from the EU & other foreign foundations. OK?
I simply don’t believe it. If this were so the Israeli gov’t would prohibit receipt of such funds by the Israeli NGO. This is either a lie or distortion. Do you think Im Tirzu knows something the apparachiks in the most right wing Israeli gov’t in the nation’s history does NOT know?
First of all, some of these organisations do.
Second, I don’t think it means anything. They could list whomever they see fit but it might all be a big lie. However these things are monitored by Rasham Ha’amutot. Organizations which receive funding from entities which are defined as hostile (for example, the IHH) are denied.
i don’t think that Rasham Hamutot looks at the source of the different organizations that donate money to the Different NGO’s
the link you provided states that betselem gets donation from the NDC (NGO Development Center) that organization in its turn is getting funds from the WA Welfare Association (הארגון: http://www.ndc.ps/uploads/File/NDC-Financial-Statment.pdf)
WA also supports Balanda, which advocates against Arabs Civil Service in the state of israel, and that is a minor example.
to me it seems that those organizations, may not have the best interest of the state of Israel in mind. i think that every dollar comes into an Israeli NGO should be checked, weather its originated in Arab countries or withing the crazy Evangelical Christians who wants to initiate Armageddon. in my opinion both should be stopped.
Wrong. I’ve seen these reports. They list foreign donations or at least you can read the report & see that a foundation is foreign.
What you’ve said above is ridiculous. You claim that because an Israeli NGO gets funds fr. an organization which in turn gets funds fr. another organization which advocates that Arabs not join the Israeli civil service, that this means the first NGO has done something wrong? This is like the Nuremberg Race laws. If you have a Jewish parent going back several generations then you’re guilty of being a Jew. What nonsense. First, why should it be illegal to advocate that Arabs not participate in the civil service? Is that a position that threatens the republic?? Really. You’ve confused legitimate political discourse with criminalizing speech you don’t like. It is not illegal to protest the nature of the Israeli state by telling Arabs not to join the civil service. That is a protest in favor of Palestinian rights within Israel.
If I started a group advocating that Jews not join the U.S. federal civil service, the very notion that this would render me a traitor or someone acting not “in the best interests of the U.S.” is so preposterous as to be literally beyond belief. What planet do you live on? I invite you to join the family of world democracies & experience life the way it’s lived in real democracies.
1. The Welfare Association which donated to NDC and via to many NGO’s in israel, donates to many islamic organizations some support the families of those who committed suicide attacks. in my opinion it makes any donation that comes out of the NDC illegitimate.(i’ll provide you links later)
2. Rasham Hamutot will check who you got your money from, but will not check who else they are giving money to. this should be done by the police or Shabac.
3. i don’t realize what’s the big issue about checking the donation sources for the different NGO’s.
If I write a blog post and David Duke republishes it on his site praising it to the skies does that mean I’m a neo-Nazi white supremacist?? That’s the equivalent of what you’re claiming.
Just what Israel needs is the secret police investigating the background of charitable donations. That would really bring Israel down to the level of Putinland or Lukashenkoland, now wouldn’t it?
Why does very organization have to “have the best interest of israel in mind”? As long as they don’t cause actual harm to the country, can’t they do whatever the hell they like? Even if it’s outright disloyal?
Moreover, why is it wrong for arab countries to donate to arab NGOs in israel?
so you see no problem that ISraeli NGO’s getting funded by organizations that support suicide attacks ?
i see i huge problem with it.
i think your analogy is wrong, a better analogy would be someone who gets money which was generated by drug deals and uses that money to do good.
i think that where you live, someone who’s doing that will be thrown to jail, rather quickly.
i think it’s wrong that any NGO operating within the state of israel will get funds from those who support terror activities.
and for the record supporting the families of those who commit suicide attacks = support terror.
I think that all NGO funding sources should be checked (Left and right, arab and israelis, jewish, muslim and Christians) and i think tighter restrictions should be imposed on receiving donations.
No, you’re saying (& via Im Tirzu w. no corroborating proof fr. a credible source) that an Israeli NGO is getting funding fr. a 2nd source which in turn is getting funding fr. a 3rd source & that this taints the funding to the first source. That I do not accept. And no yr analogy is wrong. If you made yr analogy (which I don’t accept btw) it would be an NGO getting funding fr. an organization which in turn is funded by a 3rd group which may get funding fr. a drug dealer. That’s diff. than the analogy you offered. And no, they wouldn’t be thrown in jail for that. Not at all.
BTW, I’d like to see you say that you oppose all funding fr. American Jews to support violent settler groups. About $100 million has gone in that direction. That’s far more noxious because unlike in yr NGO analogy in which the Israeli groups were doing legitimate charitable work, the settler groups are actually advocating & committing violence. Haven’t heard anything fr. you on that front.
I disagree w. yr views completely regarding restricting legitimate non violent NGOs unless you wish to be known as the Belarus of the Middle East. In that case, by all means let Israel change its name to Shabakland.
The only thing on that page is a rather silly remake of a rather awful (but very popular) children’s book about tolerance and rentals.
I see no relevance to Rotter other than being the person who forwarded the piece to the yahoogroup.
Thanks. YOU’ve allowed us to make a definitive connection between Meir Rotter & Kafe.
I would gladly give money to innocent families whose family were demolished by IDF after a son was involved in a suicide attack. To punish an entire family by destroying their home and often their livelihood for the sin committed by one member who is no longer alive to be punished was an act of barbarity thankfully no longer allowed.
You could at least say “involved in a BARBARIC suicide attack” so as not to give us the false impression that you think the desroying of houses is worse than the actual murderous suicide attack!
Destruction of the homes of those not directly involved in the suicide attack is a violation of international law. This is collective punishment which is outlawed & will end Israeli officials up before international criminal courts.
You say you’re a judge & yet don’t recognize the distinction bet. the perpetrator and those who are not perpetrators?
shmuel, barbaric is what israel is doing to the Gazans as we speak – locking them up in an internment camp, with the deliberate goal of decimating their numbers, and keeping them on the edge of survival (see wikileaks cable). Is that barbaric enough for you? at least the suicide bomber dies in the attack – the drone operators, and the murderous “pilot” killers, the tank assassins and the snipers who kill 91 year old shepherds, children who collect scrap and women walking while gazan, they are not only barbarians to the core, but also too cowardly to face the consequences of their own hideous actions. These pretend-humans continue to live, right in the middle of Israel they continue to thrive, while you – who is so mortified by a suicide bomber, support those who committed heinous actions much much worse, with not a hint of remorse. Worse still because this storm troopers act not out of desperation or in defense of anything, but in the full malevolence of the cold blooded murderer, rejoicing as they kill, maim and destroy.
What allows someone like you – given the tenor of your comments here and the camps you obviously make your bed with – to put yourself in charge of pronouncing judgement on what is and what isn’t barbaric?? when you show a hint of concern for humanity, not just a closed up tribe you imagine and the murderous instincts they condone in their zeal to cleanse the land of its indigenous inhabitants, then – and only then – will you earn the right to speak of the rights of humans, any humans really.
I respect you immensely, Dana. But I’m uncomfortable with some of this rhetoric. I don’t really see how it serves a useful purpose to talk about “storm troopers” no matter how angry we may justifiably be.
Sorry Richard, looks like I got bent a bit out of shape on this one. Some days certain commentateurs just get to you. Am sure you know what I mean (and then some).
I’ll try to be good — made easier (for now) by the momentous events in Egypt.
Oh, yes I certainly do know what you mean which is why I tried to understanding in my original comment about use of the term “stormtrooper.”
Dana, actually I think that suicide bombing is the lowest on the food chain of barbarism as it deliberately attacks innocent civilians (not collaterally) and shirks responsibility by not allowing oneself to face the attrocity that was just committed.
I find it appalling that you still cannot find a bad word to say about a suicide bomber even in your smug apology to Richard “I’ll try to be good”. You don’t know what “good” even means by the content of your comment.
The only diff. bet. a suicide bombing & the madness that killed 18 civilians & Salah Shehadeh is that the pilot who dropped the bomb didn’t have to sacrifice his own life to do it. When you tell us you support Doron Almog & Dan Halutz’s trial before the ICC for war crimes in this act, then I’ll be happy to join you in full throated chorus condemning mad acts of violence on both sides. Actually I’ll do that now before waiting for yr reply. But will you? Say it loud & proud now: “Almog & Halutz to the Hague!” Palestinian bombers too. But let’s keep in mind that Almog, Halutz & their ilk have killed multiples more civlians than the Palestinian bombers.
No, Richard. There is another major difference between a suicide bomber and bombing the home of Shehadeh. A suicide bomber is completely indiscriminate as to whom he kills, and his main aim is to kill as many as possible. When Shehadeh was killed the other persons killed were collateral damage and not directly intended, and the killers would have prefered to only kill Shehadeh if that was at all possible. Major difference!
As for ICC in Hague – I believe that if the prosecution feels they have a case against any person from any origin or country then they should issue a warrent and an indictment. As long as they don’t do that then whether you or I consider Almog or Khaled Mashel eligiable for that ignoble honour is really totally irrelevant on a world scale of things.
You seem to have very high hopes for the ICC and its potential powers, especially vis a vis those on the opposite side of your ideological view. I personally don’t think neither Israeli leaders nor Palestinian leaders will ever set foot there, neither will Mubarak, Bush, Cheney, Ahmadinijad, or any number of world tyrants who we all love to hate.
Totally wrong. Shehadeh’s murder was even worse than a suicide bombing because the IDF commanders KNEW there were civilians in the building & bombed it anyway. IN fact, because they’d tried & failed to kill Shehadeh earlier because the bomb was too small, they upped the size so they’d be sure to completely destroy the apartment building, which housed many other members of his family & others. So they DELIBERATELY killed civilians which is why they’ll end up in the Hague if the Israeli Supreme Court refused to administer justice. Collateral damage is bullshit. Suicide bombers can say Israeli civilians are collateral damage as well. Yr “logic” is disgusting & typically self-serving.
Also, saying they “preferred” only to kill Shehadeh is also nonsense. They could’ve waited till they would’ve only killed him, yet they didn’t. Interesting also that it’s widely reported (in Israel as well) that Shehadeh was proposing among Hamas that it institute a ceasefire with Israel. Why would the IDF choose that specific moment to kill him? Hmmm? Care to speculate?
I see you’re taking a dodge on the issue of Almog & Halutz to the Hauge. Typical. I don’t wait for the ICC to issue indictments. The only way they will is if they are pressured to do so. You obviously don’t care enough to bring any Palestinian to justice there because you won’t acknowledge yr own countrymen belong there too. So your arguments fall by the wayside as lacking any credibility because you’ve shown yr true colors. Your cynicism is precisely what Israel depends on to maintain the status quo & you are a good cog in the wheel of Occupation & status quo. You remind me of an old Pharaoh in Egypt sitting on his throne while all around him clamor for the kind of change your dismiss as an impossible pipe dream.
Sorry, the above should have read “homes” rather than “family”