A Danish paper has stirred up a huge row with its series of cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammed basically looking like a fool. It’s a bit more complicated than that, but not much more. In order to understand the issues involved, I’ve uploaded two of the most offensive images here (thanks to Di2.nu for the images). I warn anyone who might come here to cheer these images that I have not displayed them in order to promote their message, but in order to understand the depth of emotion and principle (to the extent there is any) involved on both sides of this argument.
Let’s start off talking about the cartoons themselves and the motivations of the cartoonist and newspaper that published them. These are deeply offensive cartoons created by insensitive individuals. If I were Muslim they would make my blood boil too. There’s no doubt in my mind that publishing these cartoons was meant to throw sand in the eye of Muslims. As we all know, there is an argument raging in right-wing circles (especially in Europe) that Muslims refuse to integrate into the “majority” culture; that they therefore cannot be trusted to become full members of any non-Muslim society in which they live; that they see themselves as superior to non-Muslims, etc. etc.
The sentiment behind these cartoons is precisely that of this anti-Muslim argument. For all these reasons, I say that the Jyllands-Posten is getting precisely what it deserves in terms of opprobrium from the Muslim world.
That being said, I in no way support some of the extreme aspects of the Muslim reaction to the cartoons’ publication. Because a newspaper publishes an odious religious image does that mean the entire nation is at fault? Does that mean you punish that nation’s businesses as if they colluded in the publication as well? Does that mean that Muslim gunmen are justified in strong-arming their way in the Gaza offices of the EU or in taking a German hostage on the West Bank? Such overreaction is just as odious if not moreso than the original cartoons.
What is required is calm, discussion, debate, an attempting to find common ground. Danes should be demonstrating on behalf of their own Muslim community and against the cartoons. Muslims should express appreciation for such support. The problem with the escalation on both sides is that it crowds out moderation and constructive dialogue. We see this constantly in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The hotheads seem to run the agenda leaving progressives on the margins of the debate. I only hope cooler heads will prevail; that Arab governments and European governments might have an emergency summit at which they discuss such issues and issue denunciations of extremism on both sides of the divide.
One thing, by the way, which I find hard to understand is why you can’t see these images in the mainstream media. I guess this is yet another example of the postive role blogs provide in covering stories in ways the big guys can’t or won’t.
A few years back a Danish newspaper published a picture of Prophet Mohammad, peace be on his name. The cartoon showed the Prophet wearing a bomb in his turban. The Moslem world was just aghast at this irreverential portrayal of the Prophet. Since then the fires have been raging in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Western embedded media says that it is a clash between Freedom of Expression and an increasingly intolerant Islam. This view is wrong because there are laws in all Western countries against Blasphemy and Racism. No one can claim the right to publish a cartoon dishonoring Jesus Christ and claim that freedom of expression protects him/her. Therefore the principle of Freedom of the Press or ERxpression is not involved. The Wesrern Media is claiming unto itself the Right to dishonor Islam in the name of Democratic Freedoms. As Oliverm Wendell Holmes once said. you cannot shout fire in a crowded theatre and then claim that the act and its consequenes are covered by the First Ammendment. The present case is similar.
There is a strong feeling in the Islamic world that the West is trying to undermine Islam as a religion and civilization by constantly depicting it as a fundamentalist, aggressive, lawless force. The anger that is spilling on to the streets is a spontaneous expression of the frustrations that people feel when their sacred symbols are cynically violated.
I think this photo is hilarious.. Why are muslims so offended by this photo ???? I am a catholic but, as I grow older (45 now) and see the world from mature eyes it is becoming obvious that there is no supreme being..I ask 1 question – if Mohammad or, Jesus truly loves us – why would they let their children kill 2500 people in the WTC attacks or, allow a mother to drown her 3 children Chicago ??? I am leaning towards science versus religion unless someone can answer this question with facts not, “Faith related”..
Christians = stop blaming the Muslims…
Muslims = trash that Koran, it is evil
Politicians = keep funding the space programs, this is where I believe we will find all our answers..
“In Islam we’re not even allowed to draw pictures of the Prophet peace be upon him.” I believe you made a good point. In Islam. that says it all. If you are not a follower of Islam you should not be subjugated to its rules. And when a network or publication refuses to show the images it is not out of respect for Islam, it is out of fear of reprisals and violence. After what happened to Theo Van Gogh is outrageous. But that is a different thread. Christianity had its period like this and it passed. It will pass with Islam too.
Purvis – If you wish to be completely accurate: I went from June ’06 to Jan ’07 without comment, Hardly a year…still, the entire discourse begs the question of where religion had/has a right to be involved?
Dear Richard,
Looks like Caryn has “I have to be right even if I have to change the subject to do so” syndrome. Amazing… still leaving comments after more than a year..
Btw, happy Passover!
~Purvis
You seem to have enlarged your former attack on Islam to include all religions. As usual you overgeneralize. Yes, religions have brought dehumanization to humankind as have many other forms of human endeavor. Reserving yr opprobrium for religion alone is misplaced.
Islam, as do other religions, say/preach one thing and practice another, including – no doubt – Islam. I have been consistent: no religion rises above another and should cast a shadow on the freedom of any individual. Religions should be a private matter, not a public/governmental matter. And no person deserves to die at the hand(s) of others because of a lack of or affiliation to a particular belief. Cartoons are freedom of speech whether we like them or not; but that gives no one the right to irrationally engage in threats, harm, fatwas, etc. against those that exercise this freedom. Sri Lanka, Ireland (No.), Palestine, Darfur, South Africa, Bosnia, Vietnam, etc. – what is your point?! The dignity of humankind suffers from any type of dehumanization (which religion does/has done time and time again). Propose a solution since these times require large minds.
Islam does not “espouse” that life is NOT precious. Any view by a non-Muslim that it DOES is based on ignorance at best & willful calumny at worst. Which is it with you? Little bit of both I’d say.
I can see that in the passing of that year you have not alas grown in wisdom, compassion or knowledge of Islam.
I see, Iraq is the only nation guilty of sectarian violence. What of Sri Lanka, Northern Ireland (only a few yrs. ago), or even the Israeli Palestinian conflict (not sectarian but certainly inter-religious violence), to mention but a few. And you think that Islam is the only religion involved in sectarian violence? Gimme a break.
There is no true religion and no one should forget that this Life is not a rehersal but the only chance we have on Earth. Death is an unknown and no religion can tell or fortell what happens after death. Life is precious and any religion that espouses otherwise is evil. And any religion that demeans the value of life should be avoided. I have reviewed our “conversation” from last year and I stand by my views; unfortunately, Iraq simply magnifies my horrowrof Islam and religious sectarian violence.
What’s wrong with being a globalist? You are vague & imprecise in terms of not making clear your usage of the term.
Ah, here is the crux of our disagreement. This is the statement of someone who has but a cursory,superficial familiarity with religion. Religions are like all other human belief systems. They contain ideas. Some of them are worthy & progressive. Some of them are retrograde and hateful. Religions, like all belief systems, change as humans change. We are entitled to observe the aspects of our religions which we cherish and to discard or scorn aspects we detest. Islam is like any other religion in this regard. Some religions are profoundly tolerant or at least contain intellectual/theological trends that are tolerant. I do not throw an entire religion out with the bath water simply because there is an idea or set of ideas within it which I find repellent.
I never stated nor implied being a globalist was a “sin” and you surely know the meaning of the word – I am not imprecise in this regard. And, if you recall from one of my earlier e-mails, I stated that the present (and past?) state of Catholocism and Christianity are also a mess. I do believe I made myself clear in being anti-religion, in so far as religion breeds intolerance. Certainly Islam, as it is today, is extremely intolerant. It is not the religion of the Koran and almost all of the current, documented behavior in the Muslim community cannot be justified within the Koran text. I have said the same of other religions when warranted. No one speaks for God.
I didn’t know being a “globalist” was a sin. Actually, I take it as a compliment. But I have no idea what you mean by the term since you use it w/o explaining your meaning. As for being an “apologist,” given that you detest Islam so you WOULD think I was an apologist for it. I am not an apologist for Islam. But I am an ardent opponent of religious intolerance & bigotry. You are guilty of gross oversimiplification & overgeneralization about Islam which rises to the level of intolerance. So of course you’d see me as an apologist. But you’d be wrong.
I am strongly in favor of those practitioners of Islam who oppress women changing changing their beliefs toward women. I am in favor of any religion which oppresses women reforming itself. But I am not in favor of singling out Islam for opprobrium to the exclusion of all others. All religions have issues in which they are deficient and should change.
Richard –
In reflecting on your reactions/comments from two months ago, it appears to me they are from someone who is trying to be an apologist and a globalist – which (at least to me) satisfies no one. To state I am stuck in a rut is fabuous – it’s a personal insult and easily thrown out there.
I am terribly okay with stating Islam is a mess, which many Muslims (especially the educated women who have left their countries) would agree is the case. If, in fact, you have lived and worked in a Muslim country you would understand better what I have stated – particularly as a woman.
Best – Caryn
I never mistook you for them. None of them would acknowledge the possibility that some Muslims might NOT be terrorists. At least you do. As for the last sentence you wrote above–what you are really looking for is people who’ve made up their minds that the Muslims are the bad guys in this controversy and that no other parties share any responsibility. There are whole hosts of people out there who share your views so you’ll be able to make ea. other entirely smug & self-satisfied that you know who’s to blame & that it isn’t us.
That’s an entirely defensive, insulting & wholly inaccurate picture of the Muslim world & shows you are indeed ignorant of the remaining 90% that doesn’t fit yr stereotype.
I hope you meant “religion” above when you wrote “language” otherwise your statement is nonsensical. Many religions contend that when you defend your religion with your life (by losing it) that you will receive a heavenly reward. Judaism is but one. There are some moving stories in the Talmud of Roman era rabbis who deliberately threw themselves in the way of death to protect their fellow rabbis and students.
Again, ignorant, offensive & patently wrong. There are elements of Islam you don’t like–fine. I feel the same way. But I don’t make sweeping & stupid statements like this one to denounce the entire (“Islam in general”) religion. Only an Arab-hater (though I”m certain you wouldn’t identify yourself as such) would think & speak this way.
As for yr travels in Arab lands, foreign travel is critical for Americans to understand that there is a world out there aside from us. I’m glad to hear of yr interest in visiting those places. But some people (& you would appear to be one) may travel 10,000 miles fr. home and their ideas and attitudes about the world remain stuck in the same old rut.
Purvis –
I am well acquainted with the Muslim world having travelled extensively in Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Turkey (Muslin not Arab) and, at some point, dated several Muslim men. You and Richard have alternately assumed I was Jewish and then not familiar with Muslims…Again, I stand by my previous statements which were not “yelled.”
The present state of Islam in general (yes, I know there are peaceful Muslims) is a mess. For that matter, the present state of Catholocism and Christianity is a mess. Faith and morality should come from within not from books written by men. Scary stuff I know.
Caryn
Dear Caryn,
I can understand why you would feel the way that you do about Muslims in general; if my only exposure to what Muslims are like was the actions of extremists that are reported in the papers, I’d probably feel that way too. However, as a Muslim myself, I can say that the riots, suicide bombings, etc that you read and hear about are NOT representative of Muslims as a whole and are also not acceptable in Islam, as those Muslims who are sincere followers of the Qur’an (and not blinded by political propogandists) well know. But most people in America don’t know any Muslims personally–and I’d guess that is the case here–and would have no way of knowing this.
As for being moderate, I have to say that between you and Richard, you sound quite a bit more tempestuous. And in my experience (and that includes within the Muslim community), those who yell the loudest tend to be the least moderate.
I stand by what I stated before. Richard, I’m afraid you are too much of an apologist. (You protesteth too much.) Please do not mistake me for Sean Hannity, Mike Savage or Bill O’ Reilly. I am looking for people who can discuss the issues with candid, clear, non-agenda minds. The Muslim world, in general, is angry, disenfranchised, irrational, and – to put it mildly – not for women’s equality. What other language encourages commiting suicide with the promise of virgins in Heaven?! If you’re going to commit suicide, for Allah’s sake, do it knowing you get nothing in Heaven remotely identifiable as 20 virgins.
Caryn: Well, you may indeed be a “moderate” on some or most political issues. But you’re not on this one:
That’s not a “moderate” response to this controversy. Not in my book. It’s a knee-jerk reaction completely in line with that of many right-wingers (Jews included) represented by the likes of Little Green Footballs, etc.
I have 3 children myself & for the life of me I can’t make hide nor hair of what you mean by “go sacrifice your own children” in this context. It’s a non sequitur. Do you mean to say that by not denouncing all Muslims for being violent and intolerant somehow this means we’ll be fighting a war against Islam? If so, you’re a seriously deluded individual. If you meant something else, you’ll have to explain yourself a little better.
This site isn’t for everyone. It’s for people who want to be challenged and questioned about their values and ideas. If my own approach threatens your equanimity then by all means go where you’ll feel safe and secure (albeit unchallenged).
I’m over and out. You (this website) lost a moderate (registered Independent) amongst this dribble/American crap.
And the sad thing is: I’m a 42 year old mother,2 kids (9/11). Go sacrifice your own children. (Don’t even start: I had family that served in both WWI and WWI and Vietam).
Friends,
I am an Anglican pastor from india writing this comment to offer my prayers to the muslim brothers and sisters around the globe and the family of the cartooniost. May God give peace to both groups.
We need to have freedom to express our ideas. But our expressions should not insult or provocate others. Believers are very sensitive. Even if they do not go to church or mosque if an issue come against their religion they will take arms and ammunitions.This being a reality, artists and men of letters should know this before publish anything that come to their thinking realm.
Here i would like to offer my prayers to entire muslim brothers all over the world and the family of the cartoonist, who is crying due to the situation.
Rev. Alex P Oommen
Caryn: Sorry to have presumed you are Jewish.
I’m with you about the fatwas, beheadings (though I think you’re confusing incidents which happened in Iraq, with Muslim response to the cartoons & we really should keep those separate because beheadings are not specifically a religious response–the people doing them are political insurgents opposed to the U.S. occupation) & rioting. But how do ‘cartoons’ constitute terror? I think your language is unfortunately imprecise here.
Of course we all have a right to protest – I never said we couldn’t. Remember freedom of movement and expression? But not to terrorize (fatwas, beheadings, rioting, retaliatory cartoons) those who do not agree with our views. And the Jews are not “my people.” I am not Jewish (marriage name). I have no religious affiliation, thanks be to Allah.
Caryn, you’re so missing the point! Of course publishing Holocaust cartoons is not a ‘reasoned response.’ But neither was posting the Muhammed cartoons in the first place. How is anything connected with this controversy “reasoned” & why would you expect it to be? You mean to say that if Muslims feel deeply insulted you require them to provide a “reasoned response?” That’s mighty white of you. Would it be nice if they did respond in a measured way to the insult? Of course. But do you or anyone else have a right to tell them the right and wrong way to protest? No. The only exception I would make to this is that I believe that no Muslim has a right to engage in violence to express whatever outrage they might feel. That IS beyond the pale.
And you’re way off base in your comparison of the Holocaust & Islam. Our identity as Jews is infused with the horrible experience of the Holocaust. Of course, it’s a central feature of our identity. And you mean to tell me you think that the concept of Allah & Muhammed are no less central to Muslim identity? You don’t think a Muslim who feels his religious identity has been trampled upon has a right to feel as incensed by the Jyllands Posten cartoons & you & I feel about the Holocaust cartoons? If so, I’m afraid you have a serious empathy deficit. You have great empathy for the suffering of your own people but very little for non-Jews (or specifically Muslims). That’s very unfortunate.
And Caryn, you have directly contradicted your statement fr a previous comment in which you claim you do not indict all Muslims for the worst behavior shown in recent weeks within that community. You wrote in yr last comment:
These are precisely the type of sweeping anti-Muslim generalizations you claimed earlier that you eschewed. I guess old prejudices die hard.
Richard –
I stand by my previous point, namely, one does not elicit cartoons of the Holocaust as a reasoned response to the offending cartoons – particularly when it was not Jewish people who made them to begin with! The Holocaust is a historical fact/truism of horrific proportions. Islam, Allah, Mohammed – they are religious beliefs/concepts. They are not equivalent in an objective analysis. Subjectively, of course, it would appear many Muslims wish to make them equivalent.
Ironically, Mohammed has been depicted in artwork before and, in fact, nothing in the Koran explicitly forbids his depiction. It is the addition of the bombs and allusions to virgins, etc. which makes them less then savory. Many a cartoon has poked fun at Christ/God/Buddha, Hindi gods – I have not been aware of global riots.
In fact, the response from the Muslim community merely begs the question: Why are the Muslims so anti-Semitic? It was a bunch of Danes who did the cartoons, so why respond by asking people to make cartoons of the Holocaust? It is neither a Koranic nor rational response; sadly, it seems entirely fitting of the Muslim mind-set to respond as many have.
In the end, what is truly striking is how little humor the Muslim community has. We need to understand what has brought so many of them to this point but not at the expense of allowing this behavior.
Isn’t “Thou shalt have no graven images before me.” one of the 10 cornerstones of Jewdism, Christianity AND Islam? Aren’t their people in this country outraged that this can’t be displayed publically?? One would hate to bring up why Jesus was such an insult to the leaders of his own religion in his time. “He says he’s what!?” (and did he ever really say he was THE prophet??)
Could it be that we are a bit embarrassed that our western religions don’t place the same weight in the orginal commandments … unless it’s an issue of just displaying them. This is NOT necessarily about Mohammed! We could get a lot farther in bringing peace by trying to understand one another instead of antagonizing cultures or countries. I think the term is.. “diplomacy”. Simple concepts like “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” “Love your neighbor..” The idea of making fun of this outrage is a travisty. We should have asked some serious questions after 9/11, but no one wanted to figure out what was driving the other side. “An eye for an eye” became the only important concept. Not the best core value to draw from any of the world’s religions. Not one that has driven CIVILIZATION.
Some of the fears that the followers of Islam have are exactly the same as the fundamentalist Christians. Can’t they get together on some things or do we have to relive the crudades?? What is the total body count since 9/11? Have we improved anything yet? How much time, money, and life has been wasted? Who is profiting??