20 thoughts on “Israeli Minister Calls UNESCO Recognition of Hebron as World Heritage Site, “Holocaust Denial” – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Some very fair and good points. Sadly, there are some despicable things done in Hebron on both sides and the saddest thing of all is the propensity of (these both sides) to engage in respicere post tergum (looking back) rather than looking forwards, to that end, Froman is truly a visionary.

    1. @ gefilte:

      Sadly, there are some despicable things done in Hebron on both sides

      Nonsense. Typical lib Zio crap. Palestinians in Hebron never had any problems with Israelis until crazy messianic settlers & their army bodyguards moved in & shut down their city. So blaming Hebronites for the problem is a non-starter. And stop bullshitting us with the same old mantra: if only the Palestinians would stop nursing old grudges & accept the new realities, then everything would be cool. God, that makes me sick…

  2. From The Guardian:
    “In heated scenes, Israel’s Unesco ambassador, Carmel Shama-Hacohen, reportedly stormed to the desk of the session’s chairman after the vote, and accused the committee of not conducting a truly secret ballot.

    In the immediate aftermath of the vote, Shama HaCohen took out his mobile phone and scornfully informed the committee: “It’s my plumber in my apartment in Paris. There is a huge problem in my toilet and it is much more important than the decision you just adopted.”

    I saw part of the session on the UN website, incredible to hear the Australian ambassador to the UN claiming that putting Hebron on the World Heritage Site list would endanger peace in the region and a future solution.

    Israel demanded that the vote be secret, and it was accepted, so we don’t know which three countries voted against: but I guess the US, Canada and Australia.

    1. The results weren’t published but the ballot was without a curtain which would promise secrecy.
      The UN will never be where the solution is made bc since its inception Arab/Muslim countries have been voting on issues as a block. There are other countries using Israel to deflect attention from their own doings.
      At the end, this Palestinian win is a semantic one with no real affect. It’s a win nevertheless.

      1. @ Aaron:

        the ballot was without a curtain which would promise secrecy.

        So if there was no secrecy you know which states voted against? No you don’t. Hence there was secrecy.

        The UN will never be where the solution is made bc since its inception Arab/Muslim countries have been voting on issues as a block.

        Rather hilarious considering that Israel has a solid block of western nations/Security Council members willing to vote as a bloc to protect its interests.

        this Palestinian win is a semantic one with no real affect.

        If that were true then Bibi, Yuval, Tzipi H., Naftali, etc wouldn’t be howling with rage at the result.

  3. Christianity and Islam grew out from Judaism. Abraham and the other Patriarchs are part of all our stories. Hebron is an ancient holy site revered by millions around the globe. Of course it should be a World Heritage Site. It is a factual matter that it is outside the borders of Israel, in Palestine. Furthermore, it is part of the Palestinian’s national identity that they are the guardians of the Holy Places. (The Church of the Holy Sepulchre is been in the care of the same Muslim family for 400 years). Of course the Palestinians must report to Unesco if the site is in danger from Israeli activity. If that is true, Israel should be forced to stop that activity, and apologize to the Jewish, Christian and Muslim world.

  4. “Jews and Arabs lived in Hebron for centuries until European Zionists launched the First and Second Aliyot.”

    You make it sound like it was all ‘skittles and beer’. It was anything but for the Jews of Hebron, who suffered pogroms, blood libels and massacres over the centuries. For seven hundred years, the Muslim authorities completely forbid Jews entry to the Tomb of the Patriarchs.
    Jews were only allowed to ascend to the seventh step, and no further. They could only peer from outside and below.

    1. the Jews of Hebron, who suffered pogroms, blood libels and massacres over the centuries.

      That’s nonsense. I’ve read the history of the Jewish community in Hebron & no accounts I read speak of any such violence predating 1929. YOu may not understand the rules here: if you make a claim you support it with credible evidence. You make a claim & don’t support it with evidence, not only is it meaningless, you will be hooted with derision.

      As for the treatment of the Jews regarding the Ibrahimi Mosque, I have no idea what source you’re using to make such claims. So again, they have no merit. But I would like to know where in the Kotel Plaza Muslims are welcome. You might also let us know when the Rabbi-monopolists who run the Kotel reached out to Muslims & invited them as a goodwill gesture.

      1. Mr. Silverstein,

        Please forgive my innocent rule infraction. Here are a few cites.

        Six years later, while on pilgrimage to Hebron, Baibars promulgated an edict forbidding Christians and Jews from entering the sanctuary–Micheau, Françoise (2006). “Eastern Christianities (eleventh to fourteenth century): Copts, Melkites, Nestorians and Jacobites”. In Angold, Michael. Eastern Christianity. The Cambridge History of Christianity. 5. Cambridge University Press. pp. 373–403.

        The Ottoman Turks’ conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes.– Auerbach, Jerrold(2009) Hebron Jews: Memory and Conflict in the Land of Israel. Rowman & Littlfield, page 40.

        In the early 18th century, the Jewish community suffered from heavy debts, almost quadrupling from 1717–1729,[114] and were “almost crushed” from the extortion practiced by the Turkish pashas. –Barnay, Jacob (1992). Goldblum, Naomi, ed. The Jews in Palestine in the Eighteenth Century: Under the Patronage of the Istanbul Committee of Officials for Palestine. University of Alabama Press

        In 1773 or 1775, a large amount of money was extorted from the Jewish community, who paid up to avert a threatened catastrophe, after a false allegation was made accusing them of having murdered the son of a local sheikh and throwing his body into a cesspit.– Auerbach, Jerrold (2009) Hebron Jews: Memory and Conflict in the Land of Israel. Rowman & Littlfield, page 45.

        In 1834, Hebron was sacked by Ibrahim Pasha’s army. Most of the Muslim population managed to flee beforehand to the hills. Many Jews fled to Jerusalem, but during the general pillage of the town at least five were killed–Schwarz, Yehoseph (1850). Leeser, Isaac, ed. A Descriptive Geography and Brief Historical Sketch of Palestine. A. Hart.

        1. In short: A Mamluk general forbade Jews and Christian to enter the sanctuary 800 years ago, and there was looting, rape and murder by Turkish troops 500 years ago. You want to pin this on the locals?

          1. @ Elisabeth: And let’s not forget that 5 Jews were killed in Hebron in the 19th century (as were many Muslims undoubtedly) in a sacking of the city. I don’t know, but this doesn’t sound like anti-Semitism to me & certainly not sustained anti-Semitism. It sounds like bursts of violence against either the entire city or segments of it during bouts of political unrest. I’d say Anya has an axe to grind and that it’s exceedingly dull.

          2. Yes, I did not even bother to bring up the looting of 1834, as there is no indication that Jews were specifically targeted.

          3. Now, if you’re done putting words in my mouth and ascribing my motives.

            My intent was only to clarify the historical record, and nothing else, but since you’ve opened up the door, I will now voice my opinion.

            Life for the Jews of Hebron, a city holy to the Jews, had been exceedingly difficult, and made even more difficult by a centuries old law restricting freedom of worship, and, a classic anti-Semitic blood libel in the 18th century.
            Despite these, and many other hardships, for over a thousand years, Jews never stopped migrating to Hebron and settling there, in order to be close to their revered Patriarchs.

            Jews will remain in Hebron regardless of what UNESCO, or the World Court, or any national government, has to say about it.

          4. @ Anya: You didn’t clarify much. You muddied the waters. You proved that there has been significant unrest in Hebron during certain small periods of time over half a millennium; and that some, but by no means all of the unrest affected the Jewish population.

            Besides, if you measured the level of disruption of the Jewish community compared to the level of disruption of Polish or German Jewish communities during the same period, there would probably be significantly less disruption to Hebron than to the European communities. THat’s because Christian Europe was deliberately and consistently hostile to Jews, while the Muslim world wasn’t. Yes, there was some hostility or second-class restrictions placed on Jews. But nowhere near the level of violence, pogroms, etc that were directed specifically against Jews in Europe over the centuries.

            As for Jews in Hebron, you cannot maintain a tiny enclave within a sea of hostile indigenous natives forever. South African proved that. If you insist on maintaining this presence through repression & hate, then the Jewish presence cannot last. Eventually, it will end. But if you seek a modus vivendi based on compromise & co-existence then you can maintain such a presence. You clearly have no will or interest in doing so. A shame really, but not surprising.

          5. What ‘Anya’ forgot to mention:
            A Peasant Arab revolt broke out in April 1834 when Ibrahim Pasha of Egypt announced he would recruit troops from the local Muslim population. Hebron, headed by its nazir Abd ar-Rahman Amr, declined to supply its quota of conscripts for the army and suffered badly from the Egyptian campaign to crush the uprising. The town was invested and when its defences fell on 4 August it was sacked by Ibrahim Pasha’s army. An estimated 500 Muslims from Hebron were killed in the attack and some 750 were conscripted. 120 youths were abducted and put at the disposal of Egyptian army officers.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebron#Islamic_era

            The only thing Anya finds worthy of mentioning is that 5 Jews were also killed, and she tries to spin in in such a way that it was local animosity against Jews. Hilarious if it weren’t so sad.

            Barbarella, this is one of your worst impersonations.. .

        2. @ Elisabeth
          Concerning the looting in 1834: this is in the hight of the Anti-Ottoman uprising in Palestine so Anya speaking about Jews being killed is the usual Judeocentrism, many scholars, also Israelis, consider 1834 to be central in the development of a specific Palestinian identity and future nationalism.

        3. It may be that the accusation of murder in the 18th c. was an extortion ploy, but using the term ‘blood libel’ is hysterical and, frankly, ludicrous. Did this Muslim family adopt a Christian, European tale about babies being killed to make matzoh? (It does not sound as if the son was a baby either.) Or does throwing the term ‘blood libel’ around simply give you pleasure?

          1. @ Elisabeth: Terms like “blood libel” and “Auschwitz borders” are like the bell to Pavlov’s dog. They make the hasbarati instantly salivate. Not that I’m diminishing the tragedy of blood libels or Auschwitz. It’s just that I hate them being abused since they are such sacred unassailable symbols of suffering & injustice.

  5. “The UN will never be where the solution is made bc since its inception Arab/Muslim countries have been voting on issues as a block. There are other countries using Israel to deflect attention from their own doings.”
    Yeah, like voting that shi*** Partition Plan back in November 1947.*
    And poor Israel, used as a scapegoat …. so I guess you agree with American-turned-Israeli Michael Oren who on i24news claimed that the vote was antisemitic.
    *Today, France is commemorating/celebrating the 70th anniversary of the Exodus that set out from Sête to Haifa in Palestine. All day we’ve heard plain propagande on the radio, the Exoduc incident is presented as the one major event that let to the partition of Palestine by the UN.

  6. [Comment deleted: Palestine denial is a severe comment rule violation. The next such violation will either lead to moderation or banning. Read & respect the comment rules.]

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