32 thoughts on “Israeli Deputy Defense Minister on Tisha B’Av: “We’re not Ashamed. We Will Rebuild the Temple on the Temple Mount.” – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Because of people like this, I have absolutely no problem telling those pro-Israel, Palestinian-hating Jews that I occasionally have the misfortune to meet that Jerusalem belongs to Muslims and Christians only.

    As far as I’m concerned, when it comes to this kind of rhetoric, expansionist Palestinian-hating Israeli/pro-Israel Jews and their rabid lunatic EvProv “allies” are not welcome and have no right to be there. Not now, not ever.

    1. Before the pseudo-trolls take the piss– I mean those Jewish people who happen to be that way. Not “the Jews” as a collective.

    2. So Jerusalem does not belong to the millions of Jews who currently live there? How are you any better than those that call for the ethnic cleansing of Arabs in Palestine?

      1. @Froy: Jewish tradition doesn’t assign territory to Anyone including Jerusalem. “The earth is the Lord’s.”

        Just as he lends you the earth he can take it away for acts of depravity & injustice.

        There is nothing in Jewish tradition justifying the theft of the land of other peoples for Jews’ benefit.

  2. Strictly speaking the Al-Aqsa mosque itself need not necessarily be demolished for the third temple construction – it is on the edge of the compound and not in a particularly important place according to Jewish tradition.

    The dome of the rock (which is not a mosque) which is over the Holy of Holies (and where Abraham circumcised Isaac) would of course be involved in the construction, though one could imagine moving the structure itself stone by stone to preserve the cultural significance of the structure.

    One must note that most conquerors of the holy land constructed or re-purposed structures on the temple mount – The Romans build a temple after the destruction, and later a byzantine church was built there. The muslims Islamized the mount and mostly demolished the previous structures. The crusaders re-purposed the buildings, and later the muslims converted them back.

    Wouldn’t it make sense for the Jewish state to assert its sovereign rights over its declared capital?

    Israel is facing continuous bloodshed due to libel regarding its intentions on the mount. By performing the deed, it would seem this wouldn’t be a continued source of tension but rather a deed that was committed and can not be undone.

    1. @ lepxii: This is an unbelievably lame comment, even for you.

      I’m so happy to hear that Jews will only destroy the Dome of the Rock and not Al Aqsa as well. That makes so much of a difference. So Muslism will only feel half the rage they would otherwise feel with the news that only one of their most sacred sites was destroyed by your pals.

      Holy of Holies (and where Abraham circumcised Isaac)

      I think you mean to say that there is no hisorical proof whatsoever that this is so and that it’s based on a Midrash which has no more probitive value than a ham sandwich or a cup of coffee. Just because you believe something happened somewhere doesn’t mean the world should suffer the blood of thousands to be shed for your belief.

      I do so much like moving the Dome of the Rock. Let’s move it to Disneyland, shall we? It will look so nice next to the Disney Castle in those TV commercials!

      Wouldn’t it make sense for the Jewish state to assert its sovereign rights over its declared capital?

      Make sense? Make sense to whom? To Eli Dahan? To you? To Nadia Matar? Or to a pragmatic person who understands that your ideas are deadly and stupid?

      Israel is facing continuous bloodshed due to libel regarding its intentions on the mount.

      Libel? Like the claim that Israeli zealot-fanatics want to rebuild the Temple & destroy the Muslim holy places in the process? That libel? And if you think that moving them will solve the problem for Muslims you are out of your cotton-picking mind.

      You are done in this thread. I can only stand so much disingenuous stupidity.

    2. “One must note that most conquerors of the holy land constructed or re-purposed structures on the temple mount – The Romans build a temple after the destruction, and later a byzantine church was built there. The muslims Islamized the mount and mostly demolished the previous structures. The crusaders re-purposed the buildings, and later the muslims converted them back.”

      Yup, and slavery, selling little girls and boys into prostitution, plowing the lands of the conquered with salt and child sacrifice was also practiced. You do select your Golden Age well.

      “Wouldn’t it make sense for the Jewish state to assert its sovereign rights over its declared capital?”

      A ‘declared’ capital that no-one accepts? The problem is that those ‘sovereign rights’ only exist in your head.

      “Israel is facing continuous bloodshed due to libel regarding its intentions on the mount. By performing the deed, it would seem this wouldn’t be a continued source of tension but rather a deed that was committed and can not be undone.”

      By all means, do something really destructive that people fear you might do, so as to reduce tension.

      I had not realized that you were one of those temple and animal sacrifice nostalgics. Revived and/or invented traditions are usually silly, so be careful: Before you know it, Judaism may look like an all male version of this:

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Druids_celebrating_at_Stonehenge_(1).png

    3. lepxii: “One must note that most conquerors of the holy land constructed or re-purposed structures on the temple mount ”

      Gotcha’. There is nothing that is built there that can’t be knocked down.

      Holdin’ that thought, coz’ it does appear that lepxii considers it to be important……..

      lepxii: “By performing the deed, it would seem this wouldn’t be a continued source of tension but rather a deed that was committed and can not be undone.”

      And. Can. Not. Be. Undone.

      Hmmmmmmm,

      Most Hasbarah trolls end up tying themselves into logic-knots within the space of a few back’n’forth arguments, but the really poor ones end up contradicting themselves inside a single post.

      You know, like lepxii….

    4. Some Facts:

      There is no mention of a Rock of any particular importance for Jews in any Jewish scripture whether the Talmud or the Torah, so all the mumb Jumbo about it is a totally made up thing.

      The Rock is 18m x 12m ,and According to the Bible and Josephous Flavious the chamber of the holy of holies was 9m x 9m, so it cannot even fit in it.

      According to the Bible and Flavious the Temple mount is 50 Dunam, while the AlAqsa combound is 144 Dunams.

      The Dome of the Rock is in fact a mosque and it includes a Mihrab like any other Mosque.

      The Alaqsa Mosque is the Entire compound and not just the AlQibly mosque to the West.

      There is no mention of any temple, church or any structure in that place prior to Muslims building the Mosques AL Haram AL Sharif in any hitory book and it aslo is a newly made up thing.

  3. Richard, you begin by saying that ‘observant Jews’ mark Tisha b’Av. All observant Jews pray three times daily for a rebuilt Temple. Not only ‘extremist settler Rabbis’. That’s why they fast on Tisha b’Av.

    1. “@Rabbi teacher”: I put quotation marks around what you call yourself since you’re no rabbi or teacher to me. The vast majority of the world’s Orthodox rabbis say no Jew should step on the Temple Mount & that the Temple will be rebuilt in some messianic future. You & your crazy settler rabbis are the only ones who take these prayers literally.

    1. @ John F.: I don’t believe you know anything about Judaism. Or if you do, you’re a simpleton. Christians say they believe in the Second Coming of Christ. The smart ones understand this isn’t happening anytime soon. The crazy zealots believe he’s coming imminently. So which one are you among the Jews? I think we know the answer to that one.

      Intelligent human beings understand the difference between a wish that something might happen in the indefinite future and a conviction that it will happen today or tomorrow; or that they’re entitled to start a regional religious war in order to realize their wish.

        1. @No, it’s not. In fact, the vast majority of Orthodox Jews are waiting patiently for the Messiah. They aren’t willing to provoke all out war to renew the Temple. Shabbat Zvi & Jacob Frank are not normative in Jewish tradition. They are histotical anomalies.

  4. “On the contrary, many MKs and ministers believe that there must be a final reckoning with the Muslims of Palestine in which the Jews finally and ultimately vanquish them. It’s an End Times-like scenario.”

    Can you please support that with some links? Those are your rules!

    And I ask for links b/c you made a very broad statement so the support for it should be heavy weight (unless of course there is a page that collect sources)

    1. @ Danny: I don’t play this game, my friend. I wrote the post. The claims in it are self-evident. If you choose not to believe them it’s not my job to persuade you.

      You are done in this thread. Move on.

      1. Funny how in this context you do exactly what CAMERA and PMW are doing (minus the interpretation you add) but you ban the former.

      2. Self-evident? And you arent willing to provide evidence? You talk about anomalies above regardig the messiah yet you say “many MKs and ministers”. No. Provide evidence.

  5. It remains surprising to me that secular Israel, comprising (depending on whose numbers you take) between half or two thirds of the Jewish population has not been able to defend itself adequately against the tyranny of an orthodox minority.

    One wonders what implications this fact has for future relations with the American Jewish community. According to a survey of a few years ago about ten percent of American Jews regard themselves as orthodox. They strongly identify with Israel (though apparently this is more the case with the modern orthodox than with the Haredim). But what about the rest?

    “Rabbi Julie Schonfeld, the executive vice president of the Rabbinical Assembly, pointed out in a conversation with The Daily Beast that
    … “Israel,” …, “is one of the only places on the planet where Jews cannot worship freely.” She continued, “This is wrong. It is not right that a person who holds these hateful views [as expressed by Minister Azoulay] be the minister of religion for the state that is supposed to represent all Jews.”

    “It’s not that we feel unwelcome in Israel,” said Rabbi Schonfeld. “We are unwelcome. Our advocacy for Israel is welcome in the political sphere, but we as Jews and as human beings are unwelcome in the state of Israel.”

  6. The name of the deputy minister is Eli Ben Dahan, not Eli Dahan.
    Also, he had almost no standing with the previous defense minister. Things don’t seem so much different with the
    current one.

  7. According to the ‘Jewish Encyclopedia’, Solomon built the 1st temple approximately 832 BCE, and stood per Rabbinic sources, for 410 years until 422-BCE. HOWEVER, their own records indicate that the 2nd Temple was built in 586 BCE (two temples stood simultaneously at one time, for 164-years?) Irony is doubled when you get the small nugget of truth that ‘there is actually no physical proof that the Solomon Temple ever existed other than the Hebrew books that form the earliest parts of the Christian Bible.
    THEN, you have Herod tearing down the 2nd Temple and rebuilding the 3rd Temple in 19-BCE (18th year of his reign), and it stood until 70-CE. when the Romans destroyed it. Since Herod TORE IT DOWN TO THE LAST BRICK, EXPANDED THE COURTYARD, etc., this is NOT the 2nd Temple (redux) but is, in fact, THE 3RD TEMPLE.
    Hate to break it to all the Christians, but that 3rd Temple you keep waiting on being built, that will indicate the end of time – yeah, IT WAS BUILT AND THEN DESTROYED OVER 1950-years ago!!!

  8. Re: Just as in India, when Hindu fanatics demolished a sacred Muslim shrine and provoked religious war between the two religious groups

    That is a deliberate distortion of the truth just to concoct a convenient argument.

    The fact of the matter is that the city of Ayodyha is the birthplace of the avatar Rama mentioned in the Hindu epic Ramayana and a sacred site for all Hindus. It had a millennia-old temple of Rama which was demolished by the Moslems who built a mosque atop its ruins during their period of occupation of India. In fact, it was their common practice to destroy Hindu shrines and deface their idols, examples of which are found all over India. All the “fanatics” had done was to reclaim their shrine. Mr. Silverstein ought to have been more careful about his facts.

      1. Oh Mr. Richard, how i wish you were there to talk some sense into those muslim fanatics when they decided to do those shameful acts in the name of their religion. But i am pretty sure they don’t give a damn what you say or preach in the name of peace and tolerance. If i am wrong, you can try your luck persuading the ISIS terrorists doing the exact same thing in Syria and Iraq right now. I wish you all the best anyways!

  9. What ever happened to the infra red satellite photos showing clearly that the footings of the temple did not cover the dome of the rock, and the shadows the heavy building column placement show there is enough room to rebuild the temple without disturbing the muslim places.

  10. Not “according to my claim” but according to history if you care to read it without cherry-picking As for “returning the favor”, why not? Just because a thug had robbed you of your property does not mean that you cannot take it back from him.

    By the way, Hindus have lived peacefully alongside people of every religion in the world including Christians, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Jews, Baha’is and countless others for centuries and two Moslems have even been Indian presidents. Even the Dalai Lama sought and found sanctuary in India. Now show me a Moslem country where a non-Moslem can even seek refuge, let alone be its president.

    This particular incident never would have happened if the Moslems didn’t engage in religious vandalism in the first place and built the mosque at any place other than a sacred Hindu shrine. For example, how many other mosques have been destroyed by the Hindus as acts of “provocation”? In fact, Jumma Masjid, one of the largest mosques in the world, is in Delhi. Similarly one of the world’s largest Baha’i temples is also a New Delhi landmark. Adherents of other religions have prospered in India without being subjected to religious persecution.

    Speaking of religious vandalism, Islamic fundamentalists have destroyed ancient archaeological treasures like the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan and are now engaged in mindless destruction of the irreplaceable ancient statuary in Iraq and Syria. By contrast, India erected a large Buddha statue as an answer to the loss at Bamiyan.

    Enough said.

    1. @Ulysses: Your claims “according to history” have no credibility. Here, claims must be backed by credible sources.

      Muslims are not “thugs.” If you trash talk adherents of any religion here you will be banned.

      You cannot “steal back” something stolen from you centuries earlier. That is no more legitimate than the original theft.

      Hindus under the fanatic Hindu nationalism which led to the destruction of this ancient mosque are not living peacefully with Muslims.

      It means nothing going to be president of India compared to being PM. When you have a Muslim PM get back to us.

      The Dali Lama & Tibetan refugees are under severe restrictions in India due to the sensitivity of relations with China.

      Human history is full of shrines built upon the ruins of the shrines of other religions. India is nothing new on that score.

      Muslims in India have been subject not only to persecution, but massacres. Gandhi was murdered by a crazed Hindu nationalist. Hinduism is no font of tolerance.

      You are on notice. One more bit of Muslim bashing & you’re toast.

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