31 thoughts on “Then there Were Five: New Settler Murder Accomplice Arrested Under Gag Order – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. As usual, Richard generalizes the whole settlers community as represented by these rotten apples. When it comes from the same person who ‘fights’ Islamophobia, it seems quite questionable.

    I find the news part of this article interesting and important. But the whole anti-settlers SHABANAG reduces it to a mere incitement.

    1. @ Barbar: Residents of Hebron are PALESTINIANS. If you persist in calling them Arabs I will start calling you a ‘Burgundian,’ instead of the Belgian you are.

      I’d guess if we compare how many Jews have been killed in Hebron with how many Palestinians the ratio would be 100 to 1. So much for your attempt at equivalence. It deflated like a flat tire.

      My comment threads are not the place for point-scoring or Gotcha food fights. Your Ynet gimmick is off-topic. Do not go off topic again. Comments must be directly related to the post.

  2. @Arik

    You had to have recourse to the “rotten apples” excuse because this crime is now too much in the limelight to be ignored. But you seem to imply that the other apples are all right. Really? I wonder then who the SOBS are who on an almost daily basis harass, rob and assault Palestinians.

    I wrote recently on this blog: “According to the latest report by Yesh Din of more than 1000 complaints by Palestinians in the period 2005 -2015 only 7% led to prosecution. In 92% of cases the Israeli authorities closed the file without prosecution and the perpetrators went unpunished. In 1 % of cases the evidence disappeared.”

    This is only the top of the iceberg. As Yin Desh points out more and more Palestinians have given up going with a complaint to the police because they feel that this is merely an exercise in futility.

  3. Arie & Richard – reply doesn’t seem to work so…

    Pretending that moving back to 1967 borders will resolve the conflict (or even all conflict with Muslims around the world like some politicians lately implied) is pure BS. Hamas seem Tel-Aviv and Haifa as integral part of their future state.
    As for who attacks those Palestinians, you take a tiny group and generalize it on a whole population. That is simply propaganda. I would recommend you see this Swedish parliament member who is responding to their Foreign Minister who is as picky as you guys in choosing the facts she sees. https://www.facebook.com/HalleluHeb/videos/1653404834930454/

    1. @ Ariel:

      Hamas seem Tel-Aviv and Haifa as integral part of their future state.

      I’m always amused by the hasbara cohort here who proclaim their insight into the goals of Hamas. This is insight they don’t actually have. Rather, these are views they wish Hamas really had because it makes it so much easier to dismiss Hamas. Alas, you’re making things up as you go along. Besides which, if you continue on this path, Israel will become a unitary state and eventually real democracy will give political power in Israel to groups like the Islamic Movement. And you will have only yourselves to blame for the 10,000 opportunities you had for a different outcome, all of which you rejected.

      Palestine-killers among settlers are not a “tiny group.” If other settlers truly wished to distinguish the movement from this violence they would take it upon themselves to root it out themselves. But they can’t because there are huge levels of support for anti-Palestinian violence among settlers. You know it & I know it.

      Please don’t pimp the comment threads with grandstanding videos & social media links. Everything in your comment must be directly related to the post, including sources, links, etc. The next time you do this either I won’t publish the comment or I’ll edit out the grandstanding.

  4. @Richard
    From your post’s sarcasm and cynicism (of which you accuse me) I can’t tell whether you think that the Shabak’s investigation of the Jewish terrorists is a good or a bad thing. It’s like your criticizing them for doing the right thing because you think that they’re doing it for the wrong reasons.
    Progressives always rattle on about over-generalizing, particularly about Palestinians supporting terrorism, etc. Yet they have no problem lumping all Jewish residents of the West Bank as settler thieves and criminals (because they all allegedly support the enterprise). But then they object to generalization about the need to address incitement and violence in Palestinian society, despite overwhelming evidence that a large proportion of their society supports acts of terrorism, such as stabbings and shootings.
    So do you generalize or not? Usually it is said that only conservative bigots do that.
    If you do generalize you can’t be a true progressive, but rather just a partisan who has picked a side in the conflict and has adopted their narrative uncritically. . Don’t even pretend to be objective or fair.

    1. @ Yehuda:

      overwhelming evidence that a large proportion of their society supports acts of terrorism, such as stabbings and shootings.

      In fact, this is a lie. Actually, Palestinians would prefer to gain their independence & rights through political struggle & non-violence. Only Israeli rejectionism makes that impossible. Further, it hardly matters whether Palestinians support or oppose violence since the fact of the matter is that Israeli violence kills 6 times as many Palestinians as Palestinian violence kills Israelis.

      So when you address the issue of the imbalance in lethality of Israel’s attack on Palestinians & end it, then you can complain about incitement or whatever other nonsense you wish to complain about.

    1. @ Diogenetics: Ask me if I care. BTW, I’m offended on behalf of Shai Agnon that you’ve adopted the monker of one of Israel’s great novelists. You besmirch his name. He would’ve hated all these settler rabbis you appear to hobnob with so amiably. I’m similarly offended on behalf of Diogenes (which is why I refuse to permit you to appropriate his name–and I call you “Diogenetics”). If you had half of their skill, wisdom & wit you wouldn’t be doing what you’re doing here.

  5. @Yehuda

    You wrote:

    “If you do generalize you can’t be a true progressive, but rather just a partisan who has picked a side in the conflict and has adopted their narrative uncritically. . Don’t even pretend to be objective or fair.”

    Richard can speak for himself but I would like to say this:

    The idea that a “true progressive” doesn’t take sides is new to me.

    The suggestion that there are two “narratives” here with competitive claims to fairness and truth might be espoused by a lazy journalist who doesn’t really care about either. Those who do care know there is only one truth here, that of the brutality of occupation and oppression, and it stares them in the face.

    “ … as a scholarly point, I have an allergic reaction to terms like “narrative” and “discourse.” I don’t think history is about narratives. Nobody would take seriously a Nazi narrative of the Nazi holocaust versus a Jewish narrative. There is one truth. It is always difficult to reach and will always be an indefinite approximation, but this notion of two truths — of the oppressor and the oppressed — I find extremely distasteful.”

    (Norman Finkelstein – http://www.fairobserver.com/region/middle_east_north_africa/norman-finkelstein-israel-settlements-and-the-icc-02734/)

  6. @ Ariel (the reply-button doesn’t work).
    I don’t read Hebrew but I understand Swedish, Kent Ekeroth is a member of far-right “Sverigedemokraterna” (and Jewish ….), just tells us what kind of people (I’m talking about the right-wing extemists and not Jews in general) are defending your colonial enterprise.

  7. ” Further, it hardly matters whether Palestinians support or oppose violence since the fact of the matter is that Israeli violence kills 6 times as many Palestinians as Palestinian violence kills Israelis.

    So when you address the issue of the imbalance in lethality of Israel’s attack on Palestinians & end it, then you can complain about incitement or whatever other nonsense you wish to complain about.”

    @Richard– This is a profoundly flawed moral argument. By the same logic, in the battle between criminals and police, because more criminals are killed than police, the criminals must be the victims and police are oppressors. Or in WW2 more Japanese were killed than Americans, so they were the victims and the US was the oppressor.
    It’s empathy gone haywire. Diminishing the importance a party’s intentions, character, and goals when judging their position, and considering only whether or not they are an underdog is naive and misguided, in a best case scenario.

    I will not re-post links I have included previously regarding the Palestinian populations’s positions and goals. In the interest of limiting my “hasbara”, I will also not include claims about Israeli attitudes and intentions as reflected in polls. What is important here is your wrong-headed willingness to specifically overlook Palestinian intentions and goals, only because they are suffering a higher casualty rate.

    1. @ Yehuda: More shtus. Israel has the 11th most powerful army in the world. Palestine has slingshots by comparison. Not to mention comparing Palestinians to “criminals” is not the most salubrious comparison you could make. THe U.S. and Japan were 2 countries in a war to the death & in which the Japanese had attacked us at Pearl Harbor. Did the Palestinians mount such an attack against Israel?

      The truth is that Israel’s murderous violence against Palestinians is a catastrophe which has killed 35,000 since 1948. How many Israelis have Palestinians killed in that period? Far, far less. That is a fact that renders an even greater moral stain on Israel which no amount of sophistry from you can erase.

      I don’t “overlook Palestinian intentions and goals only because they suffer” more than Israelis. I call out your lies about so-called Palestinian goals which are unsupported by credible sources or facts. I do not publish opinions on such subjects without facts. And you have none unless they are from tainted tendentious sources.

  8. the par is quite close-20,093 on the israeli side since1948.
    it is not a game but a product of conflict and comparing the dead does not really say all that much.
    it is more like a constant deflection in this ongoing argument.

    1. @Dan: You did not read my comment or you’re passing on false statistics. I did not saying how many Israelis were killed since 1948. I said how many Israelis were killed by Palestinians since 1948. The number is far, far less than you’ve quoted.

      In the past 15 years, 1,200 Israelis have died by Palestinians.

      I’m not deflecting anything. But you are being careless & imparting false information.

  9. @Richard – “Actually, Palestinians would prefer to gain their independence & rights through political struggle & non-violence. Only Israeli rejectionism makes that impossible.”

    The end result is still similar – many Palestinians support the murderous attacks against Israelis. You apologist excuse is like saying “Israelis won’t support occupation if Palestinians weren’t there to begin with.

    Looking purely at the numbers of casualties is the same propagandist game. There is an attacker and there is a victim. Nothing will change that.

  10. There is an attacker and there is a victim. Nothing will change that.
    And that is what is becoming increasingly clear to the outside world. It is clear which side has been disposessed, and by whom. Nothing will change that.

  11. @Richard

    1. You write that –
    “I’m always amused by the hasbara cohort here who proclaim their insight into the goals of Hamas. This is insight they don’t actually have. Rather, these are views they wish Hamas really had because it makes it so much easier to dismiss Hamas. Alas, you’re making things up as you go along.”

    Why do you feel that the Hamas Charter does not represent its goals any more?
    (or do you feel that it hasn’t ever?)

    2. I too cannot tell rabbi E. Levanon from Moshe Odess, but replying to a reader that you don’t care which is which is kind of like taking a saw to the branch you’re sitting on. You’re supposed to be well-informed, no? So better have all your facts straight.

    1. @Yaniv: Y-A-W-N. You are probably the 100th menber of the hasbarati to raise the issue of the irrelevant Charter. Next hasbara topic?

      Keep your comments on topic, directly related to the post. This comment is off topic.

      As for settler rabbis, that’s not my specialty. When I was a kid, I never collected those packets of settler rabbi playing cards they gave out with chewing gum. I preferred baseball players to fake holy men.

      The only “branch” here is the one you’re sitting on. Your leaders are sawing it off as you sit on it. Careful.

  12. Squarely replying to your own statement is off-topic? You want people to answer you with facts, but those seem to bore you.
    You remind me of (comparably wrongheaded) right-wingers accusing me of getting paid by what they term “The New Fund for the Annihilation of Israel”.
    Why can’t YOU, on occasion, answer to the point? Why keep your posts open to replies at all if all you want to hear is “nice, Richard,” “so true, Richard!”?
    And you’re not supposed to know your rabbis by heart. But as a journalist you ARE supposed to correct your (honest) mistakes instead of dissing the readers who notify you about them…

  13. @Yaniv: Fight yr own battles, Buster. When you speak on behalf of other commenters in disputing my editorial judgment you not only violate comment rules. You persuade us that your “work” here is “coordinated.” We all know what that means!

    If I cared about yr editorial judgment I’d make you a site admin. I haven’t. The next time you do this you’ll be moderated.

  14. You’re a joke, Richard. what do you mean by “next time you do this you’ll be moderated”? You just moderated me.
    And yes, I am questioning your editorial judgment. But more importantly – your judgment per se. Thinking that anyone coming here and (even mildly) disputing your party line is getting paid and coordinated again reminds me of the other side – Bibi is just as paranoid (and bigoted).

    1. @ Yaniv: No, you used a different IP address for this comment than your previous one. My comment system moderates all first-time IP addreses to avoid hit & run attacks. That’s clearly indicated in the comment rules, which you haven’t read even though the comment box urges you to do so so you can avoid precisely the sort of hissy-fit you just pulled.

      But if you continue spewing & call me “a joke” again you will be moderated. I guarantee it.

    1. @Yaniv: i forgot to approve it. It’s approved now.

      As for the comment rules there is a very clear message with a link saying you must read the rules before publishing a comment. There is a link to the comnent rules on every pg of this blog. Now go read them.

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