25 thoughts on “Judge Benny Sagi to Israel’s Media and Women: ‘Shut Your Mouths’ – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. At first I was not very interested in the Even case at all, but now I have to say that I got really sick of all those comments going on about how terrible (yes really terrible) it is for a poor innocent man to be falsely accused of rape.
    Never mind that the chances of such a thing happening to a person are infinitesimally small, and the chances of someone being unjustly CONVICTED of rape are … Well, let’s say ‘non-existent’ comes close.
    It is estimated that in most (western) countries less than 1 in 10 of all real rape cases ever gets reported to the police. From that small number an even smaller number leads to prosecution, and an only very small number again ends in a conviction. Rest assured guys: Even for a guilty person the chances of being convicted are negligible, so quit whining about the poor innocently accused fantasy guy. I’d say a woman usually has a VERY good reason when she picks up the courage to report a rape and go through the whole sickening process of having to tell all and everyone what happened.
    You probably never came across an innocent man convicted of rape but I can assure you that you pass several women each day on the streets to whom it has happened. And ALL women, also those to whom it has NOT happened still adjust what they do, where they go, and whom they trust based on the presence of the threat. Try getting upset about that for a change.

    1. ” … a poor innocent man to be falsely accused of rape.
      Never mind that the chances of such a thing happening to a person are infinitesimally small, and the chances of someone being unjustly CONVICTED of rape are … Well, let’s say ‘non-existent’ comes close”
      Lets take any random day. Today for example. Type “wrongly accused” into google news. This is the third return: “DNA testing helped to free 27-year-old John Watkins from prison in late December after he was wrongly convicted of rape. “Watkins served seven and a half years of a 14-year sentence for a crime he was innocent of,”
      Quite a coincidence for something you claim is non-existent.
      I’m not defending Even since I have no idea if he is guilty or not, but merely saying that the innocent deserve some degree of protection until they are proven guilty or at least until a decision is made to prosecute them or not.

        1. PS: What do you know about this case anyway? Was there no rape at all and the woman just made it up, just as you guys seem to think women do all the time? Then where did the DNA come from?

          Maybe the woman was beat unconsious or had a bag pulled over her face, or was assaulted in the dark. So instead of immediately thinking that the woman was lying, you should consider the much more likely possibility that SHE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH AND UNFORTUNATELY THE WRONG GUY WAS CAUGHT. Have you thought about that?

          This has NOTHING to do with a case like Even, where there can be no doubt about who the two persons involved were.

          And please remember what I said earlier when you have a nice stroll on the streets next time: Women do not feel as safe as you do, and the next woman who passes may know a lot more about this issue from personal experience than a guy like you will ever understand.

          1. It’s not just one case and their are many such cases.
            It took me less than a minute to find another case:
            “When Melinda Denham lied about being raped, it resulted in two people being placed behind bars. First, the man she accused, Shannon Hudson, was jailed for two months last year before Denham admitted she lied.”
            And there are other examples.
            My point is this. Both the accuser and the accused should have rights protecting their anonymity at least during the first stages of the investigation.

      1. And by the way: I did not say such cases were “non existent.” I said “non existent comes close”, please quote correctly. Considering the amount of women that are raped on this planet every hour, and the fact that you can only come up with a wrongful conviction that happened more than seven years ago, my description is pretty accurate.
        You, on the other hand, suggest these things happen “any random day”. A typical example of male tunnel view on these matters.

        I am off this week, so don’t expect any more answers from me. (No, not even if you manage to come up with ANOTHER – oh horror of horrors! – example of the way in which men are victimized by women in this world.)

        1. Rape has the lowest conviction rate of any violent crime. In Britain alone, only 6% of reported rapes result in a conviction. A similar pattern can be observed worldwide, with women either being accused of lying outright, or getting told that they were asking for it because their skirt was too short/they were drunk/they knew the guy beforehand. It makes no sense to focus on false convictions for rape when genuine convictions are far too rare. That just perpetrates misogyny. Sadly I don’t think people are aware of what a common crime rape is, or how difficult it can be to bring yourself to report it in the first place.

          Even if you agree with the gag order on this case, please don’t try to defend it by calling into question the credibility of the accuser – especially if your method is to try and make out that she’s lying by producing two women who did lie, as though this means that all women reporting rape are tarred with their brush. There’s a world of difference between treating the accused as innocent until proved guilty, and treating the accuser as lying until proved vindicated. This happens far too often with sexual crimes.

        2. A rape case where the rapist is not known is totally different than a rape case where he is known.
          If the rapist is not known, the police take the trouble to try and find him, but may wrongly accuse someone else – that this happens so often is unjust, to the wronged men but also to the victim and to society, since the real rapist will continue to assault victims. Negligent or shoddy police work is extremely harmful to all sides – and strange that WROGLY CONVICTING a rape suspect is presented here as a wrong against men, when actually, it is first and foremost very major wrong against women – failing to act against the assailants even when rape is reported.
          This is entirely not the issue here – we are dealing with a situation where the accused rapist is known to the woman, there is not question of identity. I have heard nothing so far to undermine the complainant’s credibility – nothing but the “explanations” of the accused. False rape charges can occur, when a woman has motivation to harm a man – but I don’t really see the possible motivation here.
          The woman’s claims are very serious – drugging, physical injury – I don’t know any more details. Unless there is any reason to thing she would be lying – I think her complaint needs to be treated very seriously.

      2. There is virtually no possiblity that Yoav Even would be wrongly convicted of rape since both he & the victim agree they had sex. There is no question, as there was in the Watkins case, of who raped or had sex with the victim. The question is what happened in the course of those sex acts.

    2. Elisabeth,
      do you have any data to back any of your claims ?
      do you speak hebrew ? a simple google search of the term אישום שווא באונס – Rape false accusations – will generate some very interesting results:
      1. http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3777334,00.html
      2. http://news.nana10.co.il/Article/?ArticleID=737068
      3. http://www.kdb-law.co.il/rec/56-%D7”%D7%A0%D7%A9%D7™%D7%9D-%D7”%D7%9F-%D7%9C%D7-%D7%A6%D7“%D7™%D7%A7%D7•%D7%AA–
      אור המצב העובדתי כי למעלה מחמישים אחוזים (לפי נתוני משטרת ישראל משנת 2007 ולפי גיליון 187של המשטרה), מכלל התלונות על אונס והטרדה מינית הינן תלונות שווא.
      the 3rd link is the most interesting one,it’s a lawyers website (female lawyer) who quotes data from the israeli police, and she states that more then 50% of the sexual harassment or rape complaints are found to be fraudulent complaints. (based on 2007 data)
      i have no idea if Even raped the girl or not – i don’t know Even, nor do i care about Even – , i do know his rights are being denied by someone who’s located, 12,000 miles away. Someone who didn’t even bother to check basic data, such as the number of fraudulent complaints.
      i’m sorry but this is not journalism this is a smear campaign

      1. “his rights are being denied by someone who’s located, 12,000 miles away”

        And the complainant’s rights, and those of other women to be protected against rapists, are being denied by a judge, and a justice system, that reside right here.

        BTW when you say “his rights” – what do you mean? The court has the authority to forbid making his name public. I’m not sure that authority carries over to other countries. So I don’t see what “rights” he has outside Israel as per the gag order. I don’t see that journalists outside Israel are committed to the gag order.

  2. @Elisabeth, good, good points.
    but allow folks who have a little understanding of the extent of sexual abuse and the hellish consequences to the survivors to all feel a little shiver at the thought of falsely being accused of being the type of animal that would commit such evil.

    @Richard
    The art on the blog is good and the musical recommendations are as well.

    1. allow folks who have a little understanding of the extent of sexual abuse and the hellish consequences to the survivors to all feel a little shiver at the thought of falsely being accused of being the type of animal that would commit such evil.

      I’m not sure most Israeli men really have a full understanding of the “extent of sexual abuse” in Israel. You certainly have an understanding as a male of the consequences of being falsely accused since it’s possible you or a male friend might be. Hence the overwhelmingly male (except for two women who have ulterior political motives for their attack) attacks on my position in this case.

      I’m glad that you enjoy the art & music. I wish the political situation weren’t so bad so I could invest more effort in the cultural aspects of this blog. I really do have other than political interests though at times it might seem so.

      1. Yes, I’ve been through your African repertoire as well. Great stuff. A couple of recommendations, if you don’t already know them: Boubacar Traore, a Bluesman from Mali, Oummu Sangare (she’s been collaborating with Ali Farka Toure), Rebecca Malope from South Africa. Without understanding the words it gives you joy and hope (of a similar solution, as far as I’m concerned):
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW9y2Q949nI

        1. Love them all. The only reason I don’t post more on world music is, as I said, that I’m so damned preoccupied by the mess in the Middle East. I didn’t know Recabba Malope though.

          I have a list of 50 traditional songs I want to write posts about. I even have the downloads of the songs ready. But who has the time?

  3. “Who can read what?” is an interesting question.

    The wikileaks Guantanamo papers recently released are available to whomever can find them on the internet BUT lawyers for the inmates (and, who knows, perhaps also ALL government employees who’ve signed secrecy agreements with the USA) are not allowed — by statute or by administrative ukase — from reading them.

    It’s like the other secrets, the original wikileaks USA diplomatic secrets stuff. ALL THE WORLD could read it — except USA employees whose contracts (or secrecy pledges) prohibit them from knowing.

    secrecy to keep the rabble from becoming knowledgeable (or inflamed at government malfeasance) I can understand — if not approve. But secrecy to make CENTRAL CHARACTERS ignorant — this I cannot easily understand.

  4. The new gag is not against “reporting the rape charge” but only against reporting the suspect’s name or hint on his identity. Details you should check before you publish. Credibility and all.

    So now why does the Israeli media barely report it? Ah, this is a good question.

    1. The difference between the 2 gags is infinitesimal. Journalists were reporting the case while there was a full gag in place & thereby violating it. The change in the gag is essentially meaningless unless it is lifted entirely.

      But yr question (& Hannah’s) why the media doesn’t appeal the gag in court is an excellent one, which Hannah, I & others have addressed in our blogs.

  5. Richard and anybody here that can read Hebrew.
    It is important that you read this article by a prominent Israeli crime journalist. She covers regularly crimes in Israel. She is an activist in exposing rapists and making sure they face justice and at least a score of them sit in jail because of her.
    She say, in short, that not all woman who complains about a rape has been raped and for that there are police investigators, attorneys and courts not bloggers journalists and woman organizations.
    http://onlife.co.il/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%97%D7%94/%D7%99%D7%97%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%9D/21928/%D7%90%D7%99%D7%91%D7%93%D7%A0%D7%95-%D7%90%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA

    1. I’ve read it. And here is what another Israeli journalist wrote to me critiquing the nonsense she’s written:

      Had Shteif merely reported on the conflicting stories, and on the way the police investigators view the case, she would have been doing her job. Had she been saying that we should be careful and hear both sides before we make up our minds, I would have agreed. But she is going much farther than that – defending the suspect and empathizing with his narrative, without making the least bit of effort to give voice to the complainant’s narrative. For this, she deserves every rebuke.

      I don’t care what Shtaif has done before and as far as I’m concerned she’s exploiting her past for the sake of advocating (I was going to use a far more colorful phrase, but thought better of it) on behalf of an accused rapist. She boasted a week ago that the case already had been closed. She continues to boast that it has been. The judge & others have noted that the case is not yet closed. I hope & pray she is wrong & if she is right part of the reason it will have been closed is that this gag allowed it to happen.

    2. “and for that there are police investigators, attorneys and courts not bloggers journalists and woman organizations”

      yes, and right after that she declares the guy innocent…
      Either she has an extremely short attention span, or she’s not as objective as she claims.

  6. “The judge in this case has sealed the media’s mouth, and sealed the ears and eyes of every Israeli who may not hear of this case and make judgments for him or herself about its importance for their lives.”
    The problem is that even if every Israeli will hear of the case and make judgements for themselves, we will not be able to do anything about it. It is not enough to hear – we need to be able to SPEAK in order to make a difference. We can’t write a letter to a public figure. We can’t post a blog or a letter to the editor. Commentators and public persons can’t debate the issue in public. When an issue is not discussed in the public realm, it is non-existent, even if every single Israeli knew the man’s name and the full details of what happened. Even if every Israeli read this blog, it would still be no use – If it’s not on the 8 pm news, it doesn’t exist – and the authorities can go doing whatever they want. It is not our ears that are being gagged, but our MOUTHS, and that is the problem!
    I think this is especially typical of Israeli society, characterized by “the tribal fire” (medurat hashevet) – if the issue is not “onstage” in full spotlight, it is as if it didn’t exist, even though everyone knows it.
    Take the case of Vanunu and the bomb. There is not a single Israeli who doesn’t know what Vanunu was trying to tell. But as long as a public discussion is forbidden, this knowledge is mute, literally.

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