35 thoughts on “IDF: Palestinian Civilian Killings=300; Military Prosecutions=0 – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
task-attention.png
Comments are published at the sole discretion of the owner.
 

  1. I’m remembering the murder of the Palestinian man by Israeli border police last spring after he accidentally struck a police officer with his car, and even more so, the deaths of the three Gazan men, one of whom was 91 years old, three days ago – blown to smithereens by Israeli shell fire. A large part of the family’s grief is made up, no doubt, of anger and frustration. It’s nothing new – Palestinians are killed by Israel every day, and nothing ever comes of it. Part of living under occupation is knowing how little your life is worth to the occupier. Another very important part is knowing that most of the world doesn’t seem to care.

    1. Mary, i have no idea where you live.
      I live in Culver City CA. I Invite you to check what will happened to someone who accidentally kills a police officer (border police are police officers) anyhwere in the USA.

      As for the shepherd who was killed two days ago, i have no idea if it’s true, but in the Israeli media was published, that both him and his grandson were metal collectors, the came across an old RPG and picked it up, the soldiers identified a young man holding an RPG and shot him.

      i understand your frustration, but i also understand that today alone 2 Qassam rockets and 9 mortar shall were fired, from the gaza strip (2 of them were phosphorous mortar shalls) and that type of daily activity makes the soldiers be extremely edgy.

      and may i remind you that israel left the gaza strip in 2005, and there is no justification for such action, other then trying to bring peace talks to an halt.

      i understand from reading your post that you object the talks, and i have to tell you that i do not understand that notion.

      1. # Mike)
        Are you the new ‘moderate’ political Zionist Hasbaraznik around ?
        What on earth has the ‘talks’ to do with the content of the article dealing with the total impunity in almost all cases of the IDF murdering civilian Palestinians ?? It’s not that you don’t want us to discuss this very serious topic, is it ?

        Today, the Israeli army admitted that “not all involved in ‘act of terrorism’ “. And I guess this is the closest we’ll ever come to an apology:

        http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=314909

        1. Dear Deïr Yassin
          first i must ask what is a Zionist Hasbaraznik ? i am a bit unfamiliar with the lingo. Just so you’ll know i display my own opinions. I am an American who lived few years in Israel, and seen first hand what is going on.

          second, i do apologize if I included in my reply something that was off topic, i simply combined in my reply to Mary a reply to what she posted in the “Sharm Talks” post.

          again if it was out of line, and i violated world order by doing so, i apologize.

          1. first i must ask what is a Zionist Hasbaraznik ? i am a bit unfamiliar with the lingo.

            We’ve seen that specific naive act too many times by now to fall for it. In fact, we’ve heard it virtually verbatim countless times. Well, actually, we didn’t even fall for it the first time. It IS pretty transparent.

          2. Eh, Shirin. That lingo is only used here. I was completely unfamiliar with Hasbara and plays on that word used in a derogatory manner until I read the posts and comments in Richard’s blog. I’ve gotten used to it by now, but still think it’s quite stupid, if you think about what hasbara really means – it’s what everyone here is doing, including yourself.

            Apparently Palestinian Hasbara is somewhat superior to Israeli Hasbara. Relativism is silly. Descriptive relativism, even more so.

          3. Yuli Edelstein is literally your Hasbara minister (yes the word is literally in the Hebrew name of the ministry) & you say you never heard the term? This is a term used regularly in Israeli gov’t communication and by the MFA. Where have you been?

            You think what I’m doing is reverse Hasbara? How lame you are.

          4. I said I was unfamiliar with Hasbara being used derogatorily. Of course I know what Hasbara is.

            And I didn’t say YOU specifically were doing “reverse Hasbara”. As I see it, hasbara means speaking exclusively in defense of one side. So yes, many commenters here feel obliged to do Palestinian Hasbara, which I guess would be “reverse Hasbara”.

            And sigh… you should really stop patronizing. It’s extremely immature. Yeah yeah, I know, you don’t care what I or anyone else thinks you should be doing. It’s just a friendly suggestion. Your reputation speaks for itself (I mean this, and I respect you) but it’s just sad to see it brutally assaulted when you go down to that level. Again, just a friendly (which I think I am) suggestion… which unfortunately I am almost convinced you will choose to ignore. :/

          5. Well, the word ‘Hasbaranik’ or ‘Hasbaratchik’ is maybe my own invention. Like ‘apparatchik’, ‘Likudnik’ and so on. Isn’t that a pretty good postfix to describe the professional Hasbara spinner ?
            We could also go for ‘Hasbarista’, but it sounds more like some Mexican soft-drink, doesn’t it ?

            I

          6. That lingo is only used here. I was completely unfamiliar with Hasbara and plays on that word used in a derogatory manner until I read the posts and comments in Richard’s blog.

            Oh pulleeeeeze! In the context in which we are speaking here hasbara = propaganda. And you are claiming you have never heard the word propaganda used in a derogatory manner?

            And no, I am not engaging in hasbara (aka propaganda). What I am doing is countering propaganda with facts and reality. That is something quite different.

        2. Dear Deïr Yassin 2

          Please see the following quote from Maan News:

          Eisenberg added that “We can say with certainty” that one the killed found a loaded RPG “that appears to have been hidden by a terrorist cell, picked up the weapon, toyed with it, and even pointed it towards the forces on the other side of the border fence.

          if this is true then the English term would be “suicide by cop”, though i don’t think he intended to commit suicide.

          it’s a horrible situation for both sides. but may i remind you again that Israel pulled out of the Gaza strip in 2005, and unfortunately these days it is a very hostile border. Israeli forces are being attacked daily and tension is extremely high.

          1. I find the term you used deeply objectionable. Again, read my comment rules. If you wish to insult the dead do so elsewhere. Not here. The IDF claims this is what happened. Until you can authenticate their claim w. credible evidence, we’re gonna treat that claim as dubious.

            Israel pulled out of the Gaza strip

            And don’t repeat yrself, Mike. You say something one time & then don’t say it again. Again, comment rules, please.

          2. # Mike)
            No, I apologize. I had my finger too fast on the trigger. I’ve had too much propaganda these days, so I see it all around.
            Even if one of the young men killed in Gaza were a ‘terrorist’, it still leaves two innocent sheperds (but I guess they were potential future terrorists, particularly the 91-year old).
            And they are always terrorists, according to the IDF. I guess I was a littke angry at you for dismissing the case of the Palestinian killed by the Border Police. You should go back and look up this story. He was killed lying on the ground, wounded, finished off, and for a couple of days, he was claimed to be a terrorist too. His name was Ziad Jilani and Richard posted on this incident a couple of months ago.
            Heartbreaking story.

          3. “t’s a horrible situation for both sides. but may i remind you again that Israel pulled out of the Gaza strip in 2005,”

            It’s deeply depressing that people still repeat this without adding that Israel continued to control the borders and did such a good job of it that they ruined any chance of economic development in Gaza. Pulling out the settlers and maintaining one’s stranglehold on Gaza is not really something to applaud. link

            As for it being a horrible situation for both sides, it’s obviously far worse for the Palestinians. They suffer most of the casualties, and that was true both before and after the Gaza War.

            You say you lived in Israel for a few years and know what was going on. Does that mean you lived much of that time in the WB and Gaza, or does it mean you lived in Israel alone?

      2. in the Israeli media was published

        Wrong, Haaretz published a CLAIM by the IDF that this is why they were killed. The media didn’t report this as true. It is a claim, & one by the IDF at that. ‘Nuff said.

        that type of daily activity makes the soldiers be extremely edgy.

        Edgy? They kill three civilians & you expect us to have sympathy for their edginess? Sorry fella.

        may i remind you that israel left the gaza strip in 2005, and there is no justification for such action, other then trying to bring peace talks to an halt.

        No justification you mean, except for the ongoing Occupation & Israel’s massacre of 1,400 Gazans last yr, & its ongoing strangulation of Gaza, & refusal to recognize democratic Palestinian elections? OTher than that you mean? Oh, now I see what you mean.

        Mike, read my comment rules. I can predict we’re gonna have some issues w. you if you don’t.

        1. Richard, Since when the media reports anything as true ?
          the media reported the incident and the statment by the IDF, the identities of the deads was confirmed by sources in Gaza.

          Now i don’t expect you to show any sympathy, oviously you are taken a very specific stand on the matter. but just remember that there are two sides for each story.

          No Justification, Richard i am sure you heard it many times, but Hamas not once put its weapons down, as for your statment about Israel not recognizing the resaults of the elections that took place in the PA, israel did not intervine with the Palastinian internal situation until the hostile takeover by hamas of the gaza strip. Hamas didn’t take Gaza strip from israel, they took it from abu-mazen.

          as for the strangulation of Gaza, you don’t have any obligation to let your neighbours into your home, you have no obligation to provide your neighbours with water, fuel, food, money (which israel does actually), or work. Israel pulled out, this is what they wanted, they can turn to the egyptians for support, and i wonder why the egyptians are not that friendly with Hamas and the people of Gaza as well.

          1. israel did not intervine with the Palastinian internal situation until the hostile takeover by hamas of the gaza strip.

            You mean the putative coup organized by Elliot Abrams, David Welch & supported by Israel? That one?

            you don’t have any obligation to let your neighbours into your home

            Do you also have the right to lay siege to your neighbor & prevent him from entering or leaving his home and from buying groceries & feeding his family except when you’re prepared to let a few items in once in a while???

          2. Hamas not once put its weapons down

            That is demonstrably contra factual. As a matter of fact studies have shown that in 75% of the cases where there has been a formal or informal cessation of violence, including formally declared cease fires, Israel has been the one to violate it. In addition, Israel has a well-documented history going back to the ’40’s and ’50’s of of escalating provocations until the other side is forced to respond, and then using the response as a pretext for its own subsequent actions.

            as for your statment about Israel not recognizing the resaults of the elections that took place in the PA, israel did not intervine with the Palastinian internal situation until the hostile takeover by hamas of the gaza strip.

            Your grasp of the events is very selective indeed, and terribly inaccurate. Israel’s “intervention” began almost immediately after the results of the election became known, and included, but was not limited to rendering the newly-elected government incapable of governing by, among other things, arresting large numbers of newly-elected officials, and various forms of collective punishment, including but not limited to imposing a crushing blockade that it has only made worse over time.

            In addition you have overlooked the small fact that it was Israel and the United States that were behind the Fatah attempt to overthrow Hamas, and that led to Hamas throwing out Fatah and taking over Gaza.

            Hamas didn’t take Gaza strip from israel, they took it from abu-mazen.

            See above regarding the Israel/U.S. instigated and backed attempted coup by Fatah. Hamas pre-empted the coup and Fatah lost.

          3. If you don’t know why Hamas and Egypt are “not that friendly” with each other, you’re very politically ignorant. Have you never heard of the $2 billion a year the US pays Egypt for its fealty? Egypt is second only to Israel in the amount of “economic aid” it receives annually from Big Daddy US.

            Israel did not “pull out” of Gaza – it still occupies according to criteria specified in the Geneva Conventions. The only pullout involved the illegal settlers – Israel still controls the economy, the airspace and the borders of Gaza, enters it at will and meddles in it affairs.

            The “two sides” to this story have shown that indeed, an old man and his nephews were blown away by Israeli tank shelling, in cold blood, as they tended sheep. It has also been revealed that it was the elderly gentleman’s habit to visit his lands every evening, and he and his nephews were approximately 700 meters away from the buffer zone when they were murdered. He was well known to the soldiers patrolling in the area. I repeat: THEY KNEW HIM. But they killed him anyway.

      3. Mike, I know a relative of the dead men personally. That is why their deaths are so profoundly offensive to me. There is no excuse to be made, no rationalization, for any of the deaths I mentioned in my comment. None.

        The man who was shot by the border police was murdered in cold blood as he lay on the ground. An eyewitness saw the whole thing.

        In the second instance, a 91 year old man was accused by the IOF of launching grenades. They were tending sheep, NOT collecting metal. There is no way their lies can stand.

        Your hasbara is sickening. Gaza has been under siege for more than 3 years, yet you claim there is no justification for resistance. Firing tinfoil rockets is small resistance, which is met with outrageously disproportionate firepower by the occupier.

        The peace talks are a sham and a sick joke. There is hardly anyone living in Palestine who doesn’t know this.

        1. Mary, first i am sorry for your looses.
          what’s in gods name is Hasbara ?

          “Firing tinfoil rockets is small resistance, which is met with outrageously disproportionate firepower by the occupier”

          this is the most rediculos statment i heard in a long time.

          these “tinfoil rockets” are killing people. these tinfoil rockets are preventing kids from playing outside, these tinfoil rockets make kids wet in beds. israel has the moral obligation to protect its citizen (like any other country in the world) It’s funny how the Gazan’s first they fire rockets, mortars, ied’s, then they complain why israel retaliates with so much force. Mary it goes down to basic logic, i will not pick a fight with someone dobule my size, and if i would i may get hurt. if i choose to pick a fight i shouldn’t be complaining. it’s their choice.

          1. these “tinfoil rockets” are killing people.

            When? And however many are being killed, the number of dead civilians on the Palestinian side is 10 times that & this figure is confirmed by Israeli human rights NGOs.

            these tinfoil rockets make kids wet in beds.

            Goodness, that’s terrible. At least these children wake up in the morning. What about the Palestinian children murdered in cold blood by the Border Police? Again, 10 times as many as your Israeli children. What about them?

            it’s their choice.

            Sentiment regurgitated here ad nauseam. Mike, originality is a virtue. Repetition is a drag. If you have nothing new to say & merely intend to repeat Hasbara, you’ll wear out yr welcome very quickly.

          2. Hasbara is a Hebrew word literally meaning “explanation”. Explaining the Israeli point of view of the conflict (and its many events, etc.) is called Hasbara.

            Here it is exclusively used in a negative manner (due to a widely popular opinion that Israeli policies are simply inexplicable), indicating the use of lies, propaganda, etc., although originally it is a term used by Israel to mean the act of explaining, or providing information.

            “Hasbarist” is therefore someone who (allegedly) lies, distorts reality, or otherwise speaks in defense of Israeli policies.

          3. Hasbara has been known as propaganda for many, many yrs. In a literal sense it means “explanation” as you said. In other countries this is known as public diplomacy. But that’s not what Israel does by & large. It engages in flackery or propaganda.

          4. It’s not picking a fight; stop being ridiculous. It is legitimate resistance to illegal occupation and illegal siege. Killing people? Hardly. I think one person died last year – a Chinese guest worker. How many Palestinians has Israel killed during the same time frame? Children wetting their beds, as Richard said, are at least waking up alive. Kids in Gaza aren’t so blessed.

            How incredibly arrogant and insensitive – I never stop being astounded by it whenever I hear this stuff.

          5. these tinfoil rockets make kids wet in beds.

            And what do you suppose it does to kids to live their entire lives 24/7 under a violent, brutal, oppressive occupation?

            And by the way, Mike, your claim to be just an American who only spent a few years in Israel is patently and clearly bogus.

          6. Yeah, I don’t believe him either.

            BTW, in a private e mail he called me a “schmok,” so I banned his ass. I’m waiting for the next Hasbarist to join us here replacing him. At the rate these guys come & go in the threads I feel like I have my very own personal minder fr. the MFA or who knows where…

          7. Hasbara is a Hebrew word literally meaning “explanation”. Explaining the Israeli point of view of the conflict (and its many events, etc.) is called Hasbara.

            Don’t be disingenuous. It isn’t cute. Hasbara is virtually universally understood to mean propaganda, that is how it is used here, and you know it.

            … a widely popular opinion that Israeli policies are simply inexplicable

            No one here finds Israeli policies inexplicable. We understand them and their purpose all too well.

          8. # Shai)
            If you don’t know how propaganda has been institutionalized by the institutions of your own state, it might be that you are already too intoxicated to realize the ongoing ‘Hasbara’.

            Here you have The Israel Project’s official manual for Hasbara. Take a look, it’s very interesting.

            When it was put in line at ‘Les Nouvelles d’Orient/Le Monde Diplomatique’, the official spokewoman or whatever her job was, Jennifer Laszlo Misrahi, wrote an comment, begging them to withdraw it, as it wasn’t the final edition, that some words such as ‘ethnic cleasing’ weren’t appropriate. She admitted (without realizing it) that they hadn’t worked enough on the vocabulary to ‘hasbarise’ abroad.
            I know Mr. Silverstein posted the manual too, but I don’t know if anybody asked him to withdraw it:

            http://australiansforpalestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/tip_report.pdf

          9. They’d know better than to ask me to withdraw it. I wrote four posts about the Hasbara manual & I only got to pg. 20 of 80 pgs. in my critique. I could’ve written 50 posts about it. It was a goldmine! To be forthright, the official title was something like “Global Dictionary” & not hasbara handbook. But that’s really what it was.

          10. How to recognize a propagandist, link above ‘australiansforpalestine’
            GLOBAL LANGUAGE DICTIONNARy
            Chapters on:
            – 25 rules for effective communication
            – Glossary of words that work
            – How to talk about Palestinian self government &
            prosperity
            – Peace: the central message
            – TALKING TO THE AMERICAN LEFT 🙂
            I wonder where that starts, according to Israeli
            standards nowadays
            – Talkiing about etc etc

        2. I should have also mentioned that these men weren’t shot. They were blown to bits by Israeli shelling. I was told that one of the victims was obliterated – they literally could not collect all of him.

  2. RE: “the army does conduct an investigation (or more accurately a report) of such killings, but it is done in the field by the unit which committed the act. You can imagine what kind of report will result from this sort of cozy self-interest.” – R.S.
    FOR A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THIS (though dramatized), SEE: The Shooting of Thomas Hurndall, 2008, NR, 90 minutes

    When peace activist and photography student Tom Hurndall (Matthew McNulty) is shot by an Israeli sniper while attempting to rescue a group of Palestinian children, his grieving parents (Stephen Dillane and Kerry Fox) demand answers but are met with stony silence from the authorities. Determined to uncover the truth, the Hurndalls launch their own investigation. Rowan Joffe directs this poignant drama inspired by true events.
    Cast: Matthew McNulty, Stephen Dillane, Kerry Fox, Bader Alami, Ziad Backry, Mark Bazeley, Emma Choy
    Director: Rowan Joff
    eGenres: Drama, Dramas Based on Real Life, Mystery, United Kingdom
    Format: DVD and streaming

    NETFLIX LISTING – http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/The-Shooting-of-Thomas-Hurndall/70117749

    1. Thanks, I’ll add this to my Amazon store. If anyone buys the DVD through this site I get a small commission on the purchase (& the purchase of anything else you might buy as long as you start your visit to Amazon here).

  3. If I were a betting person, I would wager that the majority if not all the cases that WERE investigated were high profile cases that had received too much notoriety to be ignored. In cases like that investigating, or more accurately, publicizing that you are investigating or will investigate is generally the best way to make a notorious incident go away, or at least fade into the background.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *