74 thoughts on “U.S. Companies Facilitate Mossad Assassination – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. How many of these American firms are actually part-owned by the Canadian Reitman family or persons in their orbit?

  2. Has any court in the world found Mossad guilty of this assassination? if not, then do not write stuff that hasn’t been proven true. Any circumstancial evidence is not enough. Likelihoods and statistics are not proofs. the fake passports are not proof, because every intelligence agency in the world uses fake passports. Somehow every assassination is always blamed on mossad or cia. Wonder why? The names CIA and Mossad as spy organizations appear in more Hollywood fiction movies than any other.

    1. The Dubai police are certain that Mossad is behind this assassination. They put their certainty at 99.9 percent.

      There were more than likelihoods and statistics; if you’d been paying attention, you would have also seen plenty of video.

      “Every intelligence agency in the world uses fake passports”? Perhaps, but do they use the identities of Israeli citizens?

      Try again.

    2. Sorry, but I don’t need a court’s permission or sanction to express my opinion & that of almost every journalist or Mideast analyst who’s opined on the subject. So I’ll thank you to stop telling me what to do or how to run my blog. When I need yr help or advice I’ll ask.

      You’re blowin’ smoke for yr friends in Mossad.

  3. Medawar was never entirely convinced that it was Mossad, just that quite a lot of the facilities used by the large team of killers just happened to be under control of Canadian Businessmen who are overtly sympathetic to, but not controlled by, the State of Israel.

    Mossad’s mistake was to be deliberately ambiguous, hoping to burnish their own myth, which made them look guilty regardless of whether they were or not.

    Doubtless, proper investigation of the small rural banks involved and their owners -and their contacts- will reveal the truth eventually if the FBI and RCMP do their jobs.

    1. Medwar, MetaBank is not a small rural bank. It is the issuer of the debit cards to the agents. The cards are easy to get online (I should know because I have one). However, the user, in order to activate the card, has to submit personal information, including a Social Security number. Which raises suspicions – whose names and Social Security numbers were used in order to validate these cards?

      1. Mary, banks do not check a 100% compatibility between the SSN and the name, all they check is that the SSN is valid. so if anyone would like to forge anything all they need is to follow the SSN algorithm (which they can find over the web) and hallelujah.

        1. Oh yes they do, and I know for a fact that MetaBank does. If there are any discrepancies between name and SSN, the account is frozen.

          The reason for the SSN is that in accordance with the Patriot Act, all consumer financial records in the banking sector must be traceable and verified in the event of a “suspicious transaction.” If you send money somewhere or receive it, the govt wants to know who sent it to you and that you are who you claim to be.

      2. The involvement of employment agencies is a clue:
        One trick is to offer Canadians job interviews in New York, and a free ticket if they’ll let the agent see the passport etc.
        Social security numbers also get harvested by employment agencies, in all countries, as a matter of routine.

        The Canadian businessmen I’m thinking of own employment agencies, amongst other things. Relax: I am not a Mossad-guilt-denier, but they use this kind of businessman supporter as “fixers” and are thus liable to be blamed when the fixer does something unilaterally.

        Metabank IS a small rural bank, according to its banking licence. That’s actually why it first attracted attention from the financial newspapers: it was acting a long way outside the terms of its licence: it’s original purpose, stated to the state and federal authorities, was to offer retail banking and finance to farmers and low-income householders, this accounted for about 2% of its business and the rest was things like the cards and international transactions; it had never been scrutinized for competence in those areas because no-one expected that it was doing them.

        Ever since BCCI, this kind of thing has (rightly) rung a lot of alarm bells.

        Look, love: if you have one of their cards, they have a lot of your details.

          1. Yes, but if a Mossad groupie is on the board of that bank, your details travel a bit further than you’d think.

            The person I’m thinking of used to get people to circulate petitions, too, at demonstrations he didn’t agree with, putting some proposition or another that was the opposite of his own views. Since officialdom won’t generally look at petitions without names and addresses, those had to be provided. Present a petition to a government department and it usually generates a list validating all the signatures against social security numbers or the electoral roll. Know that list exists and you can generally get a copy: you then have the social security numbers or an electoral roll number that will let you get them, 90% of the legwork has been done for you, and the identities you have stolen are all of people you disagree with.

            They used Metabank because they have someone on the board.

          2. More fuel for the fire, then. The board member is a very interesting piece of information. You’ve reminded me that I read something about that.

            I wonder if anything will ever come of these revelations, or, as in the case of the other “extrajudicial assassinations,” all will be forgiven and forgotten.

  4. This was not a “terror assassination” but an assassination of a terrorist which is different. And even if true, there is no crime committed, other than in Dubai, for financing the killing of a terrorist in foreign soil.

    1. The assassination of Mahmoud al Mabouh was a classic act of terrorism–in this case state terrorism. You lie about whether a crime was commmitted under U.S. law. Using our financial system to further murder is a violation of U.S. law.

    2. Eliel, how do you know al-Maboud was a “terrorist”? on the ay-o of Israel? is there anyone in the known universe – other than zionist cultists (ie, most of the brain-washed Israeli population) who believes a word uttered by Israeli official/politician/president/”army” spokesperson?

      All you can attest to is that the Hamas man was ALLEGED to be a terrorist by Israel, a country which designates Hamas as its enemy – whether right or wrong. Of course, the same country and most of it’s moonie-like apologists designate anyone who doesn’t agree with them a “terrorist”, or if it’s one of their own – a “traitor”.

      Therefore it was, a Richard says, a terrorist assassination carried out by state sanctioned criminal operatives.

      Ergo, it was a crime of international cope which is why all those Israeli “diplomats” were expelled and members of European countries with dual citizenship were warned to never give their home country passport to Israeli authorities.

      1. This guy boasted of abducting and killing two israelis and before his death, he was involved in supplying arms to Hamas, a terrorist organization. This is undisputed.
        He was not killed with terror, he suffered a pretty clean death in his hotel room bed, and that’s why its not a “terror assassination” as Richard called it. Was it a crime to kill him? only in Dubai. All other petty transgressions such as use of fake passports and use of prepaid credit cards to pay for tennis clothes and hotel rooms by the mossad agents, are just that, petty, compared to the greater good of riding humanity of such terrorist. That’s what Tikkun Olam is all about.

        1. What idiocy. Are you claiming that israel has the right to kill people it thinks are terrorists, on foreign soil, without a trial? That Israel or any country has the right to roam the planet, murdering people it merely suspects of crimes, without due process?

          Clearly you don’t remember the times when your proud country has killed the wrong people in such a way, do you?

          This man was murdered, and the autopsy report showed that he was tortured prior to death.

          1. Thats what you do when you are at war, you murder your enemy. And that is absolutely legal. It’s what the US is doing every day in Iraq and Afghanistan.
            Now, sometimes, innocent people die such as it happens from a not so accurate drone attack, but in Dubai, no one else died other than this self proclaimed terrorist member of hamas. As to due process? Its a beautiful luxury that should be afforded to those that are presumed innocent. But this killer admitted and boasted in al-jazeera of killing the two israelis. He did not deserve that presumption of innocence.

          2. you murder your enemy. And that is absolutely legal. It’s what the US is doing every day in Iraq and Afghanistan.

            Nope & nope. U.S. drone executions are nasty, immoral and will not end the threat that the Taliban pose.

          3. Wars of states against other states, regardless of their lack of legitimacy, cannot be compared to extrajudicial killings. Apples and oranges.

            If the guy was a self-proclaimed killer, this is still not sufficient evidence to murder him. There are many loudmouth boasters in the world, but even when they confess to murder, their assertions are investigated simply because of due process – we cannot logically convict and sentence anyone of a crime unless there is sufficient evidence. When a judge accepts a guilty plea from a criminal defendant, the plea colloquy must be credible and supported by facts; otherwise, it is rejected and the case goes to trial.

            So, who appointed israel as judge, jury and executioner?

          4. “Are you claiming that israel has the right to kill people it thinks are terrorists, on foreign soil, without a trial? That Israel or any country has the right to roam the planet, murdering people it merely suspects of crimes, without due process?”
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq
            Apparently represntives of more than 30 countries believe they have the right to do it (even more than once, and in more than one different location).
            Its nice u hate israel with such a passion, mary, however we dnot live in an imaginary world, where all but israel are playing by the book.

            btw, you dont have to bother answering. i can already tell what you’re going to write anyway (hint: at least one occurence of the term “hasbarist”)

          5. represntives of more than 30 countries believe they have the right to do it

            Preposterous. You’re talking about an official peacekeeping action. The Dubai hit was a state assassination, which isn’t legal. So stop blowin’ smoke.

            nice u hate israel

            And stop putting words & characterizations of her views in Mary’s mouth. If she wanted you to characterize her views of Israel she’d ask & she didn’t. Keep doing this & you’re going to be moderated.

          6. I hate Israel with a passion because it is a criminal pariah state, an illegal occupier flouting international laws, a mass murderer, thief and liar.

            In case your warped sense of justice isn’t entirely intact, you might want to read how your beloved Mossad screws up and murders innocent people:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair

        2. Eliel, those are not “petty” transgressions – but high crimes against the security of the entire world. Israeli agents act as mafiosi and should be treated as such. That’s why the assassins are on the interpol list, meaning, if anyone recognizes them, they should be immediately fingered. I know I would (and perhaps did, in the case of one individual who looked very familiar to me. Sent the name I knew to both interpol and the Dubai police (of course I am can’t be sure which is why I’ll let them investigate. I am certain they got quite a few such tips from the picture and videos. Israel is a small country).

          Your comment though is consistent with the disdainful way Israelis treat the law – even when it’s a good ruling – it’s ignored or subverted. Besides, does the Israeli “justice” system include the automatic death penalty for “bragging”? You know – many Israelis brag about murdering Arabs – including those massacred in Gaza and in the West Bank. Should we treat every IOF member past or present – but especially those who made and wore those famous IDF T-shirts – as a member of the mafia hit squad then? get them wherever they are – however that’s done? anywhere in the world?

          As for Hamas, Israel may consider it “terrorist”, but many of us don’t. They are more like the sandinistas, or the Indians in south america or garibaldi’s rag-tag troops – a perfectly standard issue liberation movement, that’s seeking legitimacy as a political entity and is now hounded by the mafia state.

          Alas, once a country devolves into behaving like thugs and pirates, following the laws of the jungle, they will get the treatment meted out to dangerous cults. Eventually that’s what’s going to happen when the world tires of the shenanigans.

        3. This guy boasted of abducting and killing two israelis

          Just as the IDF abducts and rapes Lebanese detainees compliments of Doron Zahavi. So what’s the diff.?

          that’s why its not a “terror assassination”

          So if you poison a political enemy with chocolate milk and he enjoys it just before he dies then that’s not a terror assassination???

          All other petty transgressions such as use of fake passports and use of prepaid credit cards to pay for tennis clothes and hotel rooms by the mossad agents, are just that, petty

          You think the use of fraud in financial transactions in the U.S. is petty? I assure you if this had been a Hamas hit & they did that here we’d have the perpetrators in federal prison so long they’d be toothless & senile by the time they saw the light of day. This kind of crime in furtherance of terror is taken seriously here.

          That’s what Tikkun Olam is all about.

          Tikun Olam is “all about” encouraging state terror? That’s news to me.

      2. “All you can attest to is that the Hamas man was ALLEGED to be a terrorist by Israel, a country which designates Hamas as its enemy – whether right or wrong.”
        Sure, hamas is not our enemy. They are the greatest supporters of israel, and al Mabouh was probably responsible for bringing candies to israeli kids. thas why they sent people to explode in israeli buses 10 years ago.

        i dont believe to about 80% of the stuff israeli officials say, but it doesnt mean Hamas are saints and angles. In such cases i know i can sleep better at night when there are less people like al mabouh. Besides, with people like u – it wouldnt really change anything if israeli would have arrested him and put him on trial instead – as to you the only people who believe to any israeli officials are ” zionist cultists (ie, most of the brain-washed Israeli population)”.

        1. “i dont believe to about 80% of the stuff israeli officials say, but it doesnt mean Hamas are saints and angles. In such cases i know i can sleep better at night when there are less people like al mabouh”.

          You are an optimist – I’d go more with 90% – I am ure there are a few believable stats issued now and then.

          I did not see where I claimed hamas to be “angels and saints”. Why would I do that? I only claim they are human just like Israelis are, and deserve to be treated as humans, ie, have the right to defense and to answer their critics – whether in a court of law or in the court of public opinion. You may sleep better knowing mabhoud was murdered, but I worry about the safety of everyone in the world with murderers and assassins running loose, sanctioned in their dastardly deeds by a second rate arrogant banana state, armed to the teeth – including with nuclear weapon that are aimed – among others at European cities.

          A for the “zionist cultists” – all I can say is that by their words and actions you shall know them I do because I grew up in Israel and realized years later that my entire education was built on brain-washing into a tribal mind-frame – much the same as Koresh’s followers or mormons were. I will never forgive the state of israel for the lies and calumnies and false idealism injected and spoon-fed into young children who had no mean to fight back (those were the day before the internet). If you think I am angry, you’ll be right – angry like any member of a cult who had to pend year to deprogram. If I could, I’d sue the state of Israel for wasted time…..not to mention malfeasance. Maybe some day, I will.

  5. I’m surprised that you’re using the term ‘assassination’.

    Don’t you realize its Arabic origins, more specifically its reference to Muslim sect?

    Perhaps you should be more sensitive.

      1. I think what was being referred to was the Hashishim from whom the term Assassins originates. The Hashishim (hashish smokers) were a radical group from the of the Nizari branch of Ismaili Islam, founded in the 11th century by Hassan ben Sabbah in Persia and Syria. Originally members would smoke hashish in order to facilitate visions. Later they would smoke hashish prior to the commission of political assassinations. This is of course a gross oversimplification and the specifics are disputed by scholars, but it remains the etymological source for the term assassins.

        1. Let’s not forget we Jews have a legacy of political assassination as well going back to the Sicarii in Roman times. The Sicarii (named for the sharp daggers they used in their crimes) were a model for militant ZIonism in justifying its terror attacks against British & other targets.

  6. “Sorry, but I don’t need a court’s permission or sanction to express my opinion & that of almost every journalist or Mideast analyst who’s opined on the subject. So I’ll thank you to stop telling me what to do or how to run my blog. When I need yr help or advice I’ll ask.”

    Every man has right to his opinions but no man hast the right to be wrong in his facts. As u said “my opinion” your self. But you portray it here as it were already proven fact. This Hamas man was wanted by Jordanian intelligence among other arab intelligencies.

    You’re blowin’ smoke for yr friends in Mossad.” Yes Richard I am good friend of Mossad, i have lunch with them everyday. 🙂 heh. Give me break.

    “The Dubai police are certain that Mossad is behind this assassination. They put their certainty at 99.9 percent.”

    I like to see how the Dubai police chief got that statistical number. And this is what i meant with statistical figures.

    “There were more than likelihoods and statistics; if you’d been paying attention, you would have also seen plenty of video.”

    Yes and what the videos show, guys changing clothes in the hotel etc. and chatting in the airport. Now tell me did you see a dogtag or some kind of clue that based in the video images they were especially mossad agents. Were they wearing Mossad jackets.

    1. you portray it here as it were already proven fact.

      You can call it whatever you want. I’m absolutely convinced of the validity of what I claim regarding this assassination which is why I call it that. You can call it a picnic. I frankly don’t care.

      I like to see how the Dubai police chief got that statistical number.

      You mean, other than the fact that he’s a highly experienced senior police authority who has reams of evidence thanks to Dubai’s advanced video surveillance system & all the help it has received from victimized countries?? The only people who question the police chief’s judgment are Israelis and their right wing supporters. So what are you?

      As I said you’re blowin’ smoke on Mossad’s behalf. And yr arguments aren’t close to being credible.

  7. I never said that it can’t be mossad. I find it strange that only mossad can pull this off. Just because Mossad had the greatest motive and the means doesn’t mean that mossad did this without reasonable doubt. I personally dont characterize people to left and right camps like you do. We are not anymore in cold war. Thousands of people have been killed or have been abused because they are separated in these two camps. Vietnam, Cuba, Soviet, US, Europe, China, North and South Korea. I rather like to be politically in the center than join any of those. Dividing in to camps has caused lot of wars and pain.

    I hate when people call leftist communists and rightists neo con. People with agendas usually use this tactic when they have no more arguments to back their cause. Pure character assasination.

    “highly experienced senior police authority “. Can you say without reasonable doubt that Mossad did this? And the same highly experienced police chief blamed mossad during the investigations. Usually police conduct their investigation first and only then issue arrest warrants. They do not give interviews blaming organisations based on motive. It seems that they only tried to link this murder to mossad. Only mossad was mentioned in the interview.

    http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100205/NATIONAL/100209847/1133

    DUBAI // The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, will be at the top of Dubai’s wanted list if the Israeli foreign intelligence service Mossad is proven to be behind the killing of a senior Hamas official, the Dubai Police chief said yesterday.

    Lt Gen Dahi Khalfan Tamim told The National that “Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, will be the first to be wanted for justice as he would have been the one who signed the decision to kill [Mahmoud] al Mabhouh in Dubai. We will issue an
    arrest warrant against him.”

    He did not, however, assert that Mossad was definitively responsible for the killing; Hamas has accused the Israeli agency of killing Mr al Mabhouh.

    He was found dead in a Dubai hotel room on January 20, less than a day after arriving in the UAE. No bodyguards accompanied him on the trip, Hamas has said. Gen Tamim had said the method used to kill Mr al Mabhouh was a “Mossad method” but did not elaborate.

    He added that Mossad “has carried out operations” in the past using similar procedures. Dubai Police had also earlier said only that the involvement of Mossad could not be ruled out.

    He is contradicting himself. “Yes we have evidence that israel is guilty”, most likely, 99 %, 100 %. “But I will issue arrest warrants if proven”. Hah. I would give the fellow more respect if he would of done the investigation first without pinpointing and then issuing arrest warrants. I am glad that police in my country doesn’t do conduct investigation in that matter.

    1. What a ridiculous set of arguments, really. You’re grasping at straws, and you know it.

      You ignore the obvious questions: Who else, other than israel, would want this man dead, why would Mossad agents be caught on video entering and exiting Mahbouh’s hotel at the time of his death? Why would fake passports be issued for israeli citizens in the UK and used by Mossad agents to travel to Dubai? Why would these agents be carrying debit cards issued by a US bank?

      1. You are an apologist for the Mossad & yet you claim to be “of the center.” The question is–center of what? Center of the Israeli right? Or center of hasbarists?

        You are an apologist for the Mossad

        If you are going to throw accusations, make sure you are accurate. You are misrepresenting my comments about this assassination. Unlike you I remember what I wrote. Do not make accusations that are baseless!

        The question is–center of what? Center of the Israeli right? Or center of hasbarists?

        These cold war tactics won’t work on me. This George W Bush, either your with us or against us isn’t working. Dividing world in to right and left. I have not accused you of belonging to any group. When you can’t stick to your arguments, apparently you start attacking personally.

        The question is–center of what?

        I already said what I meant about rather being in the center and I am not going to repeat myself.

  8. “You ignore the obvious questions”. If you would read my “ridiculous set of arguments” you would find that i already said (quote): Just because Mossad had the greatest motive and the means doesn’t mean that mossad did this without reasonable doubt.

    ” Who else, other than israel, would want this man dead”. You just repeated what i said before. Yes its a motive. Mabhoud was a wanted man. He made lot of enemies, israel is one of them. You can read it from newspapers. Strange is that the police chief mentioned only mossad.

    “why would Mossad agents be caught on video entering and exiting Mahbouh’s hotel at the time of his death?”

    How should I know why assassins got caught on videotape, and why they removed their wigs and moustaches. Never met an assassin or a spy. How does this prove that the assassins were especially Mossad agents. Is the tailing of the target typical to mossad.

    “Why would fake passports be issued for israeli citizens in the UK and used by Mossad agents to travel to Dubai?”

    The fact that assassins used passports belonging to israeli who hold two passports doesn’t prove anything. If Mossad did use fake passports belonging to these people that would mean that they would be caught anyway with these passports assuming that the Hamas man was a high profile figure and his death would spark a lot of attention and questions. Have u cases in which mossad in the past have useed fake dual citizen passports in assassinations?

    “Why would these agents be carrying debit cards issued by a US bank?”

    and again how does this prove that Mossad ordered debit cards. did the trail lead to a known Mossad offshore account or israeli bank.

  9. Highly unlikely Israel is not major player in this assassination, but its possible that some contractors (of american israeli origins) are on the loose. We read the Wash Times publication on the wild privatization of the intelligence services since 9-11, (and possibly well before that as well). the difference between “rogue” acitivity and formal activity is sometimes hard to nail, somtetimes the arguments last forever, because division of powers are always tricky, especially in those fields of clandestine acitivities and organizations. the chain of command is murky, when politics is involved as well.

    We all know that all that wilding in Israel for decades had been supported if not initiated by the USA. now the rules have changed, and probably some very strong people/orgs who are used to doing as they will, all over, did not heed the warnings. this turns out to be a very positive development, because the dubai fiasco forced out a lot of unspoken bad secrets, especially the license to kill, steal, forge , exploit (and I add rape and pillage Israelis), that Mossad and same sort of “agents” held as their god given privilege.

    So, the question is where is it going now ? its not enough to dry those swamps, but new people, rules, standards should be instated and instituted with vigor.

  10. “I hate Israel with a passion because it is a criminal pariah state, an illegal occupier flouting international laws, a mass murderer, thief and liar.

    In case your warped sense of justice isn’t entirely intact, you might want to read how your beloved Mossad screws up and murders innocent people:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair

    But mary, you didnt contradict a single word of what i said. Yes israel doesnt give a damn about international law. So?
    Who does? Do you hate all the countries on the list i pasted as well, or ur hate is reserved to Israel only?
    Is there a well-defined list of how many (and which) international laws a country is allowed to break before you start hating it?
    I wont bother looking for number of civilian casaulties caused by nato in the last few years, but somehow i get the feeling israel is not exactly the international butcher – as much as u want to hate it.
    I think people who criticise israel can be divided into two groups: people like richard, who honestly believe all can live by international law and build west-like democracies – and i respect him for that (although im sceptical), and people like yourself – who simply use “international law” as another excuse / common ground to hate israel.
    I think ill never really understand why ur trying so hard to prove theres some rational base to ur hate, and that israel somehow differes from dozens of other countries around the world, in a way which makes it worth ur hate.

    p.s i read the link ur pasted. i really am sad for this person and his family, as much as im sad for any innocent person who dies during any conflict. I dont see, however, how a hamas member who talked on tv about killing 2 israelis (i must admit i didnt see this interview of him, but no one claimed he didnt say it so far, so im assuming he did) can be compared to the case u pasted. Then again, i think about carpet bombings of afganistan, and i remeber reading about destroyed mosques and dozens of dead innocents – and i again realise we’re no better nor worse than others.

    1. The subject of the thread is not whom or what I hate, or what NATO has done or whom it has killed. Nice try.

      Excuse me for “hating” israel, but I just happen to have a “thing” about racist states who steal land and kill with impunity. Call it hate if you like, but I prefer to think it’s a fully engaged moral compass, something israel, in its alternate universe, seems to lack.

    2. I wont bother looking for number of civilian casaulties caused by nato in the last few years

      NATO has not occupied a people against their will for decades on end. It has never waged war largely against civilians. It has never boasted of sending a country back to the Stone Age.

      i must admit i didnt see this interview of him

      This is precisely what I hate about the hasbara crowd. You claim multiple times that al Mabouh did or said something without offering any proof. And then you admit you don’t really know that he said what you’ve just claimed he said. A big violation of my comment rules. Pls read them & support yr claims & don’t make claims unless you know them to be factual. Otherwise, you’ll end up moderated.

      1. “NATO has not occupied a people against their will for decades on end. It has never waged war largely against civilians. It has never boasted of sending a country back to the Stone Age.”
        Yeah, of course. they greatly advanced the iraqi/afgani economy, and helped the civilans there alot by directly causing this :
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present).
        Anyway, i wasnt even comparing i-p conflict with other conflicts, but saying just what i said (and it still hasnt been contradicted by no one). People like mary simply hate israel “because”. Its not about international law, as israel was created upon a decision of the international community, and last time i checked israel was a recognized country by the internatoinal community (within the borders of 1967). In case of people like mary the use of the term “international law” is just an easy way to find common ground with liberals like urself to attack israel as long as it exists.

        Not all the people here are western liberals like urself. may i remind u that when u suggested israelis and palestinians should be living in democratic west like countries – mary told u u should stop using “post colonial” thinking, and that the palestinians have the right to chose any regime they want – which of course raises many questions.
        I dont believe either all the people can be forced into demoracies, but unlike mary i dont spend so much time critizing others for not being true liberals/democrats, and then within same breath defend my own right not be one.
        Too sad this is a paradox thats too easy to miss. Karl marks suggested communists’d use it back in 1800’s in the same way people some people are doing here and now.

        “This is precisely what I hate about the hasbara crowd. You claim multiple times that al Mabouh did or said something without offering any proof. And then you admit you don’t really know that he said what you’ve just claimed he said. A big violation of my comment rules. Pls read them & support yr claims & don’t make claims unless you know them to be factual. Otherwise, you’ll end up moderated.”

        3 different people here talked about this interview. No one said the interview didnt happen, and ur (and mary’s respnsoes) were something like “so he said he klled israelis, and there are israelis who say they killed arabs. are they any better?”.
        So i wasnt the one who brought up this interview issue, i even explictily wrote i dont have any idea if the claims about the interview are true. how come this is violation of any of ur rules?
        probably you’ve mistaken between me, and “eliel” or “objective” who also comment here,
        not to mention other people here bring up claims without proofs all the time, but u dont seem to care as long as they support ur views.

        Have a nice day.

        1. they greatly advanced the iraqi/afgani economy

          You’re claiming NATO is responsible for Iraq & Afghanistan? Do you know what you’re talking about? This is not a NATO operation. I thought you were talking about Kosovo or Serbia which were NATO operations. I had no idea you didn’t know what you were talking about…

          probably you’ve mistaken between me, and “eliel” or “objective” who also comment here

          I’m sorry if I’ve mistaken you for another commenter. I do my best to be precise about this. And if I’ve confused you I apologize. But I’d like someone to tell me definitively what Dirani says about those he allegedly killed.

          1. “You’re claiming NATO is responsible for Iraq & Afghanistan? Do you know what you’re talking about? This is not a NATO operation”

            Just to make sure, i reopened this link
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)
            and then this
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Security_Assistance_Force
            and discovered initially the forces in afganistan had some other name, but it IS a nato operation, or at least been such for few years.
            So yeah, i was partialliy wrong regarding iraq (its mostly a british – american operation), but 100% correct regarding afganistan.

  11. Its so amusing reading these comments. Blog readers becoming professional international law experts. I can understand that if dana is israeli, she demands improvement from his country, but if you are not israeli or palestinian what is your motivation to defend or to bash israel. If a person is humanitarian why focus only on israel. Why this case is special from all the tragedies in the world. if you list total casualties, poverty, employment, injustice in that area for 100 years or just in the palestinian territories you will find many places in the wolrd where humanitarian situation is much worse. That doesn’t mean that this conflict must not be solved. Don’t get me wrong. But it somehow draws more media attention, airtime than any other “naqba”. I remember the same time when Kirgistan people were going from house to house killing by the hundreds each other, just because of ethnicity. A true massacre. At the same time all media attention was focused on Mavi Marmara. death toll: Turkish citizens 9. Kirgistan hundreds + 275000 refugees.

    1. I can understand that if dana is israeli, she demands improvement from his country, but if you are not israeli or palestinian what is your motivation to defend or to bash israel.

      First, Dana IS Israeli. But second, even if she wasn’t she would still have an absolute right & even duty to criticize Israeli policy for its violation of human rights & even the tenets of Judaism and certain trends within classical Zionism.

      why focus only on israel.

      Did you just graduate from the Hasbara Institute? We’ve read this lame argument here from so many pro Israel advocates before you. IT doesn’t get any better w repetition.

      I remember the same time when Kirgistan [sic] people were going from house to house killing by the hundreds each other,

      If you truly cared a whit about the country you might learn to spell its English name correctly. Hundreds were not killed as far as I heard though there were indeed killings. Further, the I-P conflict has gone on for decades and killed far more than hundreds.

  12. “First, Dana IS Israeli. But second, even if she wasn’t she would still have an absolute right & even duty to criticize Israeli policy for its violation of human rights & even the tenets of Judaism and certain trends within classical Zionism.”

    we have no dispute here, as i already said if she is then it’s understandable.

    Zionism as a word or a symbol has no meaning to me. Your word not mine.

    I never said no one can critisize. I am arguing why emphasize on this particular area of the globe.

    “Did you just graduate from the Hasbara Institute? We’ve read this lame argument here from so many pro Israel advocates before you. IT doesn’t get any better w repetition.”

    so if arguing for global human rights is pro israel, and focusing on israel is not, why do you represent yourself as pro israel, you cant have the cookie and eat it aswell. How’s that balanced. If I took statistical analysis of your past writitings, how many of pro israel statements would I find? I imagine not many.

    “If you truly cared a whit about the country you might learn to spell its English name correctly. Hundreds were not killed as far as I heard though there were indeed killings. Further, the I-P conflict has gone on for decades and killed far more than hundreds.”

    I am sorry but I take greater pride of my own language. Unfortunately you don’t understand it. So I have to stick to english.

    Seems you focused only on Mavi Marmara than the massacre occurring elsewhere:

    “In the worst ethnic violence this Central Asia nation has seen in 20 years, marauding Kyrgyz gangs were last night accused of “committing genocide”, burning ethnic Uzbeks out of their homes and embarking on a three-day rampage of killing, which some human rights activists on the scene estimated has killed more than 500 people.

    Uzbekistan’s Emergencies Ministry said that more than 75,000 people – mainly women, children and the elderly – had fled across the border to escape the rampage of killing, which began in Kyrgyzstan’s second city of Osh and across the south to Jalalabad.

    “Officially, 113 people are reported dead but residents described dozens of corpses in the streets and predicted that the final death toll would rise dramatically. “The real figures are going to be much, much higher than what we are hearing at the moment,” Angela Berg of Human Rights Watch, who has been in the city throughout the riots, told The Independent. “Adding up the numbers of dead that have been reported to me from different districts, I have a figure of about 520, and it may be even higher than that.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/kyrgyz-gangs-accused-of-genocide-as-death-toll-rises-1999652.html

    over 520 deaths, thousands of refugees. Did you miss that massacre or were you watching reruns of Mavi Marmara tapes?

    Your just repeating my words(quote): if you list total casualties, poverty, employment, injustice in that area for 100 years or just in the palestinian territories you will find many places in the world where humanitarian situation is much worse. That doesn’t mean that this conflict must not be solved. Don’t get me wrong. But it somehow draws more media attention, airtime than any other “naqba”

    Kyrgyzstan massacre proves it. It got much less airtime and other media attention. Cambodia Holocaust, Sudan, Ruanda, Sri Lankan civil war etc. Casualties much much higher than in the I-P conflict and yet less media attention. In these massacres have died hundreds of thousands of civilian, military personnel.

    1. why do you represent yourself as pro israel

      I criticized “pro-Israel advocates” who are a special breed of hasbarist. Those who are truly pro-Israel are those who are willing to criticize current Israeli policy & the Occupation because they understand it violates the long term best interests of Israel & its security. You bet I’m pro Israel. But I’m not a hasbarist or Israel advocate as you are.

      If I took statistical analysis of your past writitings, how many of pro israel statements would I find?

      If you’re using the Netanyahu government’s or Aipac’s yardstick then right, not many. But I don’t define my pro-Israel principles at all in the way they do.

      I am sorry but I take greater pride of my own language. Unfortunately you don’t understand it.

      Either you’re ignorant or a liar. I understand Hebrew, if that’s your language, perfectly well. If your native language is not Hebrew, then perhaps you’re right. It’s not that hard to go online & find the correct spelling of the country whose name you misspelled.

      So regarding this ethnic violence–are you seriously arguing it is more severe or long term than the Israeli Occupation? The Kyrhyz massacre got plenty of media attention. I read multiple stories about it in the NY Times.

      Unfortunately for you I don’t measure my humanitarian concerns the way you do. I’m a Jew & a critical Zionist, so I’m naturally more directly & personally connected to the tragedies in Israel & the Territories. That’s what I do. If you disagree w. my priorities no one has a gun to your head. Write your own blog & focus on whatever priority you wish.

  13. Heres a statement from amnesty:

    “The deadly violence is said to have started with clashes between rival gangs of mostly Kyrgyz and Uzbek youths on 10 June and rapidly escalated, reportedly leaving more than 2,000 people dead and thousands injured.

    Around 400,000 people are reported to have fled their homes and about 100,000 are believed to have fled to Uzbekistan.”

    http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/uzbekistan-must-halt-forcible-return-refugees-kyrgyzstan-2010-06-24

    now its not hundreds but thousands. Even more casualties than in the Gaza war. people running with machetes from house to house. Pure butchery. Reminds me off Ruanda but in smaller scale. why is that we hear more about gaza war massacre than this massacre where clearly death toll was higher?

    Human rights groups report every incident around the world and are doing a great job, so it can’t be blamed on them. They are not selective. It seems I-P conflict is more newsworthy.

    1. why is that we hear more about gaza war massacre than this massacre where clearly death toll was higher?

      520 were killed in this unrest. 1,400 were slaughtered during the Gaza war. The death toll was “clearly higher” in Gaza. And this is just one war leaving out previous Israeli produced slaughters like Lebanon 2006 etc.

  14. amnesty just reported over 2000 deaths. over 400000. This happened in only period of few days. You have using human rights reports as your personal bible and know you don’t take their word. how do you come with figure 520. Somehow uzbeks are killed and gazans are “slaughtered”. Just read the amnesty report.

    Either you’re ignorant or a liar. I understand Hebrew, if that’s your language, perfectly well. If your native language is not Hebrew, then perhaps you’re right. It’s not that hard to go online & find the correct spelling of the country whose name you misspelled.

    Heh, how do you come up it with those choises. If am not Israeli then I must be ignorant. i don’t actually care whats your opinion about me. Unlike you I don’t do character assasinations.

    “So regarding this ethnic violence–are you seriously arguing it is more severe or long term than the Israeli Occupation? The Kyrhyz massacre got plenty of media attention. I read multiple stories about it in the NY Times.”

    To me every victim has the same value. All deaths are unnecesary including gazan and israeli.

    “Unfortunately for you I don’t measure my humanitarian concerns the way you do. I’m a Jew & a critical Zionist, so I’m naturally more directly & personally connected to the tragedies in Israel & the Territories. That’s what I do. If you disagree w. my priorities no one has a gun to your head. Write your own blog & focus on whatever priority you wish.”

    I have no problem of you critizing israel, I have problem of your narrowminded critizism. I read all the same Haaretz and Jpost articles that you post here every other day. You cherrypick articles that are highly critical of Israel and leave out the ones that critisize palestinians. Your Tikun Olam representation gives entirely different picture than you portray in these columns.

    “Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music.” not much about politics and ideas about israeli arab-peace.

    1. I’d like to see a source & a link. YOu’ve used numbers that conflict ea. other. In yr earlier comment you presented evidence that there were 520 deaths possibly many more. Now you’re claiming more than 2,000, & I have no idea where the 400,000 number comes from or what it means.

  15. y sais:”3 different people here talked about this interview. No one said the interview didnt happen, and ur (and mary’s respnsoes) were something like “so he said he klled israelis, and there are israelis who say they killed arabs. are they any better?”.
    So i wasnt the one who brought up this interview issue, i even explictily wrote i dont have any idea if the claims about the interview are true. how come this is violation of any of ur rules?
    probably you’ve mistaken between me, and “eliel” or “objective” who also comment here,
    not to mention other people here bring up claims without proofs all the time, but u dont seem to care as long as they support ur views.

    I didn’t make any claims about any interview, I can however provide something from the claim that he killed israelis personally:

    “In 1988, he was personally responsible for abducting and killing two Israeli soldiers.”

    http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2010/02/2010225153440544986.html

    I made no claim about any Al Jazeera interviews but as I understand it can be found from Al Jazeera news agency in arabic.

    here’s article about it:

    http://www.france24.com/en/20100207-slain-hamas-militant-admitted-role-killings

    one more:

    “We used to plan for every little and big step. Our work was well-planned, not random. We used to plan to kill first and then capture ones [soldiers] alive.

    We only needed a piece of land, usually in a farm or a in a poultry farm, and we used to dig a secret jail under the ground, and hold some soldiers or officers there, just like the case of [captured Israeli soldier Gilad] Shalit.

    Disguise, we were dressed like religious Jews, like the Rabbis. One of the places we used to observe was Hidaya roundabout. A car arrived, dropped passengers including Avi Sasportas who was kidnapped and killed on February 16, 1989.

    I was the driver, and there were boxes in the car. He got on the car and sat in the back seat. There was a special signal between me and Abu Suhaib. After we passed Hidaya roundabout, I signed to Abu Suhaib who had a gun, he shot him twice in the face and once in the chest. I heard his sigh at the first shot and he died.

    We then took him to the already-prepared place and buried him there.

    We had stripped him of his clothes and belongings before we buried him. He had a wallet, ID card, and a military card, he even had a special weapon with night-view laser light. It was an M15 weapon.

    The operation was discovered 11 days later.

    We tried to announce responsibility for the operation, but no news agencies tried to report it.”

    http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2010/02/2010271441269105.html

    1. Ok, so Dirani was kidnapped & held for 8 yrs in an Israeli prison & tortured for his trouble without trial I might add. I have no problem w. someone who kills someone in cold blood in this way being tried, convicted & jailed for their crimes (which didn’t happen to Dirani). But there are scores of Israeli soldiers & agents who deserve the same treatment, plus generals who’ve blithely & willingly attacked civilians killing thousands over time. While what Dirani did is disgusting what the IDF has done to Palestinian & Lebanese civilians is worse since they’ve indiscriminately killed civilians. BTW, Palestinian militants who kill Israeli civilians are equally reprehensible.

      1. What are yapping about now. I haven’t mentioned any Dirani. type ctrl+f and type word Dirani and check how many hits you get from my comments. big zero. And guess who got all of the hits, YOU.

        Stop putting words in my mouth.

  16. What i was supposed to say is that I didn’t mention any interview in my comments. Never touched the bragging subject. You can check it up.

  17. Weird. i commented,and it didnt get posted. ill rewrite, and im sorry it if appears twice eventually. last attempt:

    you wrote this
    “And stop putting words & characterizations of her views in Mary’s mouth. If she wanted you to characterize her views of Israel she’d ask & she didn’t. Keep doing this & you’re going to be moderated”
    and this:
    “Richard Silverstein says:
    August 3, 2010 at 1:43 AM
    Mary, keep it under control please. They want to provoke you. Don’t let them do i”

    Notice how a day before it mary responded TWICE
    with
    “mary says:
    August 2, 2010 at 11:35 AM
    I hate Israel with a passion because it is a criminal pariah state, an illegal occupier flouting international laws, a mass murderer, thief and liar”
    and with

    mary says:
    August 2, 2010 at 1:27 PM
    The subject of the thread is not whom or what I hate, or what NATO has done or whom it has killed. Nice try.

    Excuse me for “hating” israel, but I just happen to have a “thing” about racist states who steal land and kill with impunity. Call it hate if you like, but I prefer to think it’s a fully engaged moral compass, something israel, in its alternate universe, seems to lack

    Mary is not losing control richard, she only wrote what she thought, and there was absolutly no need for me to “put words in her mouth”. Do you want me also to google and count on how many responses she personally attacked and insulted other users (while writing for some reason she dont care if she gets banned – when its obvious she knew she wouldnt).
    This doesnt exactly settle with: “Those who comment here are like house guests. Anyone who treats my home, me or readers with disrespect will receive no respect in return.”

    Many people here already wondered why u r looking so hard for excuses to moderate/ban people who dont disagree with you and are not less of israeli supportes.
    this is from ur “commenting rules” page too:
    “My wish is that the comment threads here become a community of sorts for those interested in Israeli-Palestinian peace and the other subjects about which I write. Like any community, there should be room for disagreement (and agreement). There should be education, ideas, jokes, criticism–everything that makes up a full-throated discussion of the issues.”
    Your wish is my wish on that subject, and i really hoped this would be a place with room for disagreement (and agreement), but so far i see its only a place for constant threats of a ban – whenever someone “dares” to disagree with you.
    I dont understand how and why u convinced urself none of ur users hates israel (and specificly mary – in this case), but apparently u did, because u wrote this:
    “8. comments which claim my readers or I “hate Israel” or that we are “enemies of the Jewish people,” “kapos,” “self-haters,” “dhimmi” or similar smears are grounds for banning.”
    but as ive already said, theres no need for me to put words in marys mouth. shes as obvious as it gets, and her opinions are obvious too. As ive already wrote more than once here, its abit amusing how she tries to find logical, absolutley-right-and-rational-for-all-human-beings ground for her hate towards israel. Im sorry, but when someone writes so much about her hate toward racist killer states and disregards any questions about her interests/ feelings about other conflicts around the world with the magical word “hasbarist” (or any other similar answer) its kinda hard to believe this person doesnt simply hates israel only and thats about it.

    1. I have absolutely no interest in this comment or anything having to do with how I moderate the comment threads. If you have complaints pls. don’t clog the threads with them. Write me an e mail through the Contact form. I can’t promise I’ll satisfy you if I answer. But do not argue about editorial decisions or policy here.

    2. Oh, stop whining. I’ve been commenting here, and on many other forums, for many years now, and I clearly can recognize attempts to steer the discussions away from the topic; it is a hasbara tactic. And the one you tried – bringing in other world conflicts to compare to Israel – is a classic. That’s why I refused to take the bait.

      1. “hasbara tactic”
        Mary, although it might seem surprsing to you – i didnt study in some imaginary “hasbara school”. Im not even sure such academy exist. Your arguements/statements dont become more valuable because u use “smart” hebrew words, or because ur trying so hard to attack/insult pepole who argue with you. Writing to someone “hasbarist” is not exactly getting royal flush in poker game. it doesnt automaticly wins any arguement. sorry to disssapoint you…

        “Oh, stop whining”
        Im not whining. i was just curious how come any one whos not more of a left winger than richard gets constant threats of getting banned/moderated, but since richard asked me to drop the subject i will. Its his site, after all, and he can just as well decide only people who share his views or anti israelis can comment here.

        “And the one you tried – bringing in other world conflicts to compare to Israel – is a classic. That’s why I refused to take the bait”
        Of course, its easier to disregard such question as “hasbara” than actually answering why u dont give a damn when jordan revokes citizenship from palestinians, or about millions of other racist issues around the world.

        Anyway, i dont really care what do you think about other conflicts around the world, or how other countries treadt the palestinians. Its obvious to me that if tommorow turkey invades iraq and kills all the kurds, or egypt does the same in gaza with the palestinians there, you wont say a word, just like when your friend shirin wrote an apologist post here about saddam hussein you didnt bother writing that he annexed kuwait (maybe its israeli hasbara and i didnt know? you’re more than welcome to enlighten me). Its also obvious to me where ur hate towards israel comes from, and why its very subjective and has nothing to do with the reality we live in. As i wrote more than once, its just amusing to read how ur trying to prove that u actualyl have a very strong and logical base for ur hate. It might work on richard, who wants to believe all but israeli jews are extreme liberals, and wanna live in usa #2, but i think its obvious to anyone else that ur far from being such, and ur attempt to use liberal human right values to find comomn ground for hate is pathetic, especially when u talk about palestinians right to create an islamic state (something thats opposed to the democractic state richard suggested they’d create).

        Come on, hit me with another “you are an hasbarist” based answer. that will surely convince me you knwo what youre talking about, and a true human rights fighter.

        1. I’m going to ask Mary not to respond to this. And I’m warning “y” that he is on VERY thin ice. Your next violation my specific request that you cease the line of questioning of Mary’s views will result in your either being moderated or banned.

    1. Who is getting trounced on this thread, “objective”? Not me.

      I “continually accuse people of hasbara action” when I see hasbara in action. As such, I do not engage in useless debate with hasbarists. Enough said.

      Immature behavior is relative.

  18. You have some kind of personal grudge against Israel apparently which is obvious in your previous comments.

    Your last comment just proved my point that when you don’t have solid points you start attacking personally. Yet again. Some behaviour. Apparently “hasbarist” word works both ways. You are using it in the same manner.

    The pot calling the kettle black.

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