This is precisely the type of chaos, lawlessness and violence one should expect from an out of control nation which countenances the theft of homes lived in by their Palestinian residents for decades. Why shouldn’t we expect settler hooligans not only to cock an M-16, but fire it at someone and wound or kill. You know that’s what coming. And if it does what will happen. The government will say the settler was provoked. More Palestinians will be arrested because they brought the outburst on themselves somehow. Someone will order an investigation. Nothing will happen. Then they’ll add it to the docket prepared for The Hague whenever that date with destiny comes.
Not to mention that the Israeli police have criminialized democratic protest at Sheikh Jarrah despite the fact that Israeli courts have TWICE ordered them to permit the demonstrations. The problem is that in the Only Democracy in the Middle East, police and military don’t have to pay attention to court orders if they choose not to do so. It’s an interesting version of democracy, I must say. If a judge says what I want him to say I abide by his ruling. If he or she doesn’t, then it’s as if it never happened.
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Not just police and military, but mayor Barkat, too. Only a week ago he “bowed to pressure” “under protest” to evacuate Beit Yonatan:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1147297.html
Now, in another open show of contempt for the court, the evacuation is delayed again:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1148342.html
The ultimate chutzpah is this:
That comes down to bare-faced blackmail. Make me evacuate Beit Yonatan, and I’ll do my best to trigger a local intifada, Barkat is saying.
It goes without saying that he’s also ignoring (because it’s policy) the fact that “illegal construction” in East J’lem mean fundamentally different things for Palestinian residents on the one hand and for Jewish settlers on the other.
Now I see, according to Jonathan Cook, it’s not 70 but more than 300 buildings.
http://www.jkcook.net/Articles3/0451.htm
Are you aware of the irony of what you are saying? You complain the police aren’t complying with a court order. IT WAS ANOTHER COURT ORDER THAT SAID JEWS HAD THE RIGHT TO LIVE IN THE BUILDING.
You can’t have it both ways.
I believe the court which ruled twice that the demos were legal was the Supreme Court. THe eviction order was from a lower court probably municipal court. At any rate, one court order ratified theft & the other ratified democracy.
Israel is “out of control”?
Why would you say that. How is Israel “out of control” more than any other nation?
There were 17,000 murders and 90,000 rapes in the US in 2007. Isn’t the US much more “out of control” than Israel?
By the way, the settler is behaving like an idiot but he is protesting a stone thrown at the compound, not attacking anybody. If you listen to the soundtrack you will hear the exchange.
U.S. foreign & military policy is also out of control but prob. not more so than Israel’s. But at least our country has a certain level of cohesiveness & the rule of law (though just barely). Are you claiming Israel’s legal system functions more democratically than ours?
The settler isn’t attacking anyone?? Did you not hear him cock the M-16? Was that for effect? When will you admit he’s attacking someone? When he actually shoots one of the women in the head? BTW, this is typical of Israel–throw a stone & I drill you full of bullets.
I certainly do claim that Israel’s judiciary is more democratic than the US. We do not elect judges based on politics or appoint them based on politics. In Israel the rule of law is followed much more than in the US. I say that having experience with both legal systems.
Not only that, our electoral system is more democratic and much more fair. It is a proportional system that allows small parties to have representatives in the Knesset unlike your two party system and gerrymandered districts.
Israeli jurisprudence is pathetic & backward. There is no formal right of judicial review nor a formal concept of precedent. Judges defer to the intelligence agencies. Court rulings are ignored by army & gov’t agencies. Some judiciary & you claim it’s more democratic than the U.S.
Bull testicles. Maybe if you’re a wealthy Israeli Jew. But if you’re Palestinian Israeli or poor or a dissenter or activist you can rot in hell. Rule of law? Gimme a break!
Yr electoral system is even more dysfunctional than yr judiciary. I can’t believe you actually believe the crap you’re trying to pass off as truth here. It is a proportional system that allows small parties to grab the entire system by the balls and wring it till it cries uncle. Not to mention that it is utterly corrupt (not that U.S. politics isn’t–it’s just we’re a bit more refined about it).
You have a completely distorted and false view of Israel and an utopian view of the US system.
Why are there so many more per capita African Americans in US jails relative to Caucasians? Because of your “fair” system? Judges in Israel defer to no one. They are independent while your judges are elected or political appointments. In Israel we have no death penalty. We do not execute children and mentally challenged individuals like you do. Show me ONE case that the Israeli supreme court treated an Arab citizen of Israel differently than a Jewish citizen. You won’t find one. As for the occupied territories, the rule of law there is much better than Gitmo or Abu-Graib. What the US did in Fallujah and other places in Iraq is nothing compared to how Israel deals with such problems.
As for our electoral system, what you view as its weakness is its strength. Imagine we had a system like the US. How many Arab representatives would there be? Exactly 0, because it would be easy to gerrymander districts like you do to make sure Arabs are a minority in every district. So in fact, you trample your minorities while Israel gives them a political voice.
Why are there more Mizrahim & Israeli Palestinians in Israeli jails per capita than Ashkenazim??
Then why has it taken 3 yrs since the Supreme Court ORDERED the IDF to move the Wall at Bilin & only now the IDF is saying that it plans to do so?? Why do judges routinely rule in favor of the intelligence services in security cases in which victims rights are egregiously violated? You don’t know what you’re talking about & you’re an embarrassment to truth & accuracy.
Electing judges, while not the best means of choosing judges, does not mean they are not independent. Israeli judges are creatures of the system & have no independence as a rule fr. the security apparatus. Can you point me to a single ruling by a judge that went against the position of Shabak?? Pls. do, I’ll be waiting.
There are thousands of examples generally though limiting yr sample to the Supreme Court is unfair. The Israeli Orr Commission refused to prosecute any of the Border Police who killed 12 Nazareth Palestinians during a demonstration. Israeli Arabs cannot own or build on their land while Jews can. Israeli Arabs generally cannot get high quality educations or municipal services due to discrepancies bet. funding Jewish & Arab towns. The Jewish Israeli gov’t appoints Muslim religious leaders & has the right to disqualify anyone it chooses fr. becoming one. The Supreme Court has refused to outlaw torture which is used against Palestinian prisoners.
As I wrote yesterday, this isn’t Hasbara.com. If you write howlers that no sensible, sentient human being will regard as true, you won’t get space here. So future comments will be moderated. When you lie or speak w such ignorance that you embarrass yrself as above, yr comments will not see the light of day. I value truth & facts, not propaganda that is false on its face.
Have you not read about the Palestinians murdered, maimed, sodomized w impunity by Border Police & settlers? Yr ignorance or stupidity is pathetic beyond belief.
The reason it would be easy to do is that Israel’s power brokers are just racist enough to try to get away w. that. But the diff. bet. Israel & the U.S. is we have a court system that presents checks to the executive & legislative branches & finds there is discrimination in voting & political represenatation. The courts get to approve any decisions in legislative districts w. significant minority representation, which in turn guarantees minority seats. You don’t have that in Israel. So if you had the system we have–of representation via constituency, you would actually have a functioning democracy instead of a laughingstock Knesset full of bozos, indicted or soon to be indicted criminals, hacks, ideologues, ex-generals & spies, etc. (not that our Congress is much better).
Every single one of your accusations can be leveled at the US. You are just using double standards. For example, in NY, it is routine for police officers to not be persecuted or acquitted for shooting unarmed minorities. What does that say about the NY justice system?
It is widely acknowledged that the US justice system is not fair to people without means. That is not the case in Israel.
Why do inner city kids in the US, who are predominantly African American and Hispanic, get a much worse education than the average American citizen?
In short, why are your insights so damning about Israel, but not about the US? Why do you believe Israel is worse than the US in anything? Those beliefs are not backed by facts.
I’ll tell you what, jjj. I’ll poll my friends in the “Occupied Territories” and ask them what they think of the so-called justice system there, and I’ll let you know the results. But I can already assure you that your assertion of its fairness is so far off from reality that it’s laughable.
The Wild West in the middle east. The so-called democracy of Israel condones and practices thievery of the lowest form, that of stealing a person’s home. This lunatic country gets its comfort from US support.
With this insanity taking place on a daily basis, is it any wonder that the Palestinians have no desire to “negotiate” any further?
Mary,
Polling your friends in the West Bank is like polling people in Gitmo about the American justice system. It is irrelevant. You are just confused. In the West Bank military rule applies, not the Israeli judiciary system.
One can be against occupation while acknowledging that for Israeli citizens the Israeli system is more fair than the American one.
If ol’ JJ here were sitting in an Israeli prison and he was Palestinian I bet he wouldn’t consider his views of Israeli justice “irrelevant.” As for confused, you can’t even begin to understand how confused & brainwashed you are.
The Israeli military justice system IS part of the Israeli justice system. Just because it is military doesn’t mean it isn’t a reflection overall of Israeli democracy (or lack thereof). The Occupation is an extension of Israel & reflects on the inadequacy of the entire state. You’re a mere apologist & a pretty poor one at that.
Is that so? Is the occupation an extension of Israel and reflects on the inadequacy of the entire state?
Well in that case, the US is completely inadequate. Its occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan has resulted in many more civilian deaths, more displaced people (800,000 relative to several millions). The US killed 2 to 3 MILLION Vietnamese.
Kindly explain how the US is more adequate than Israel??? Why the double standards?
Agreed. The U.S. occupation of Muslim lands is almost as bad as the Israeli Occupation. I say almost because it hasn’t lasted for 40 yrs. (yet). When it does come back & we can talk. Till then, I’m afraid Israel’s illegal Occupation is one of the most egregious currently in the world.
BTW, the crimes of other countries don’t excuse Israel’s–or is that what you’re arguing? Are you claiming that until we resolve all the injustice in the world that Israel gets off scot free??
You’re hogging the comment threads. Pls. from henceforth no more than three comments in a single day. You’ve published something like 10 comments or more already today. You’ve exhausted your share and will not publish further comments today. You can resume tomorrow. I don’t have the time or inclination to spend my entire day replying to your nonsense. In addition, you’ve repeated numerous claims 3 times or more. DO NOT REPEAT your arguments. It’s boring & again a violation of comment rules. I’m very close to banning you. Read the comment rules if you want to continue commenting.
Blacks are not a majority in those states. If you’re not a majority or able to cobble together an electoral coalition, it’s difficult to get elected. You apparently have never heard of the Civil Rights Act which gives judges the right to approve legislative districting for discrimination against minorities. It is the sole reason there are as many Latino & African American members of Congress.
Blacks are 10% of the American population & just produced a president. Can you show me a Palestinian Israeli who’s ever been prime minister or even run for prime minister? Can you show me an Arab political party that’s been included in a governing coalition?
That’s actually not true. Unlike Israel, police officers are often disciplined for mistreatment of citizens. Sometimes there are miscarriages. But in Israel less than 5% of cases result in prosecution & of those almost none are successful. But I’m talking not about the police but about the Israeli military–the IDF & Border Police. Our military does not abuse our citizens & those of our neighbors as yours does.
Here are the comment rules for this case. You make a claim, you support it. You don’t support it, it’s gornisht as this bogus claim is. Israel’s record of treating the indigent poor in its criminal justice system is, I’m certain, just as bad as America’s. Not to mention it’s treatment of Israeli Palestinians which I’m certain is woeful.
Because inner city school districts receive far less funding than suburban ones. But the diff. w. Israel is that Israeli Arab districts receive almost no funding fr. the government esp. compared to Jewish schools. There is a diff. between getting less funding than white districts in the U.S. & getting almost none in Israel.
I am not “picking” on Israel. I am a Jew and critical Zionist. That’s why I’m concerned about Israel. I am fiercely critical of my own country & government. I don’t treat it any differently than Israel’s.
You’re actually comparing an ambassador with the U.S. president and claiming they have the same stature? Michael Oren served in the Gaza war as Israeli IDF hasbarist. Last I checked, Barack Obama hasn’t been a member of the U.S. military cheering on our killing of Arab civilians as Oren has.
Am I critical of Obama? You bet. Would I heckle him at a speech, calling him “murderer?” No.
I know perfectly well about the justice system in the West Bank. For some reason, it is a military court with fewer appellate options (actually, there are none) than a civilian court for Israelis.
I assure you, I am not confused.
Well if you know about the West Bank justice system you know that it follows a completely different set of rules and procedures than that of Israel just as the laws and rules in Gitmo are different than in the US. Reaching conclusions about US law based on what happens in Gitmo makes no sense. Neither does extrapolating about the Israeli justice system based on the system in the West Bank.
Why are the Palestinians not afforded the same human rights as those of Israelis? Why the military court, coyly called the “civil administration”, which so conveniently has no appellate system and does not afford a defendant even close to the number of rights given to an Israeli?
Gitmo is a US military installation and cannot be compared to the illegal occupation of Palestine.
You cannot defend the court system in the West Bank with anything you say. There is no justification for it and it is only one other way of unfairly treating Palestinians.
“The courts get to approve any decisions in legislative districts w. significant minority representation, which in turn guarantees minority seats.”
No it doesn’t. Just look at the Senate. Minorities are under represented there in a huge way. Could you please remind me when was the last time an African American represented Alabama or Mississippi in the Senate or perhaps there is no African American minority there?