37 thoughts on “Join American Jews in Condemning Gaza War – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. What is happening is immoral and atrocious. I am appalled by the behavior of Israel for the 2nd time since they bombed the heck out of Lebanon. That country which I was raised to revere is a terrible neighbor where it is.

  2. Sorry, while I’ll accept a few things I don’t like for the sake of unity, the last paragraph is a deal breaker. Palestinians have a right of self-defense.

    1. This is a perfect example of my problem with the anti-Zionist position. You refuse to understand that if Israel lifts the siege & eventually accepts Hamas’ role in Palestinian politics that there will BE NO NEED for Palestinian right to self defense. Israel will no longer be starving & killing people of Gaza as they are now. Not to mention that you’ve neglected to actually read the full final paragraph which actually DOES reserve to both Israelis and Palestinians the right to self-defense. That is–self-defense, not killing civilians. But I guess for you killing civilians somehow becomes self-defense. That’s the Israeli position too btw. You’re mirror images of ea. other on this.

      I would’ve been pleasantly shocked if anyone from Jews Sans Frontieres had been willing to sign this. And be sure to have someone there write a post attacking our statement. I’d be surprised and disappointed if you didn’t.

  3. “Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them.
    There is almost no kind of outrage—torture, imprisonment without trial, assassination, the bombing of civilians—which does not change its moral color when it is committed by ‘our’ side. .
    The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.”
    : –George Orwell

  4. Yes Miriam, actions are judged differently according to who does them and in what context they are done. Everybody learns that in Moral philosophy 101, and if they fail that in introduction to legal arguments.

    Here, let’s try your skill in moral reasoning Miriam.

    And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren. And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand Exodus 2: 11-12


    David wrote a letter to Joab, and sent [it] by the hand of Uriah. And he wrote in the letter, saying, Set ye Uriah in the forefront of the hottest battle, and retire ye from him, that he may be smitten, and die. And it came to pass, when Joab observed the city, that he assigned Uriah unto a place where he knew that valiant men [were]. And the men of the city went out, and fought with Joab: and there fell [some] of the people of the servants of David; and Uriah the Hittite died also.
    Samuel II, 11:14-17

    So Miriam, how do you judge, in your wisdom borrowed from George Orwell?

  5. Media outlets, while distinguishing between Israeli civilian and military casualties have failed to do the same on the Palestinian side. All Palestinian casualties are somehow lumped together irrespective of whether they are civilians or Hamas operatives……..

    1. If you’d bothered to read any credible media source or even this blog you’d know that was completely untrue. You do read, don’t you? Or do you just read Frontpagemagazine & Israeli foreign ministry press releases?

    1. Have you ever visted Sderot ? or Beer Sheva?

      Yes, I did. In fact I lived in Israel for 2 years, speak fluent Hebrew & have a Masters in Hebrew literature.

      Did you ever visit Gaza? Have you ever done or read anything to enable you to have the faintest idea of what it means to be Palestinian or suffer what they’re suffering? I didn’t think so. I rest my case.

  6. Richard,

    We have different principles, and I don’t expect you to agree with mine. I signed quite a few statement and I am willing to make concessions, and then there are some concessions I am not willing to make.

    JSF might criticize your statement, and I don’t see why you should worry about it. That criticism might on balance increase the number of people who will sign your statement. After all, I have no doubts that your position is a lot more popular that mine among Jews and among Americans in general.

    The Israeli claims and the Hamas claims look the same. They are not however the same because Israel and Hamas are not in similar positions. It is not unheard of for sides to a conflict to make mirror image argument. This does not mean that they are both right in making the same argument. Understanding that difference is part of what is required in passing judgment. You don’t just note what people say in their own defense. You evaluate it.

    But more importantly, Juan Cole just made a very insightful post about the status of Gaza residents for the last few years, showing that it is in many ways worse than slavery. When you condemn Hamas in this context, you are condemning the equivalent of a slave revolt. I think this is an unprincipled and immoral position for someone whose tax money is used in the killing in Gaza to condemn the tactics of their revolt, which is effectively also a revolt against you as a U.S. taxpayer.

    The question whether the act of firing a Qassam is moral and the question whether to condemn it is moral are two separate moral questions. In law, there is something called recusing oneself when you recognize that your position makes you unfit to judge. That is my position and that is why I cannot sign your statement.

    1. The Israeli claims and the Hamas claims look the same. They are not however the same because Israel and Hamas are not in similar positions

      And that’s precisely why Jerry wrote that whatever right Israel might have to defend itself, the way Israel has conducted the war has totally forfeited any moral or political legitimacy to their cause. We don’t argue that Hamas & Israel are the same or that they are in similar positions. We argue that Israel is in the wrong. We argue (in our blogs though not in the statement) that if Israel hadn’t broken the ceasefire then Hamas would have no reason to have fired rockets at Israel.

  7. Not Jewish but am glad for every voice condemning the Gaza slaughter. It is especially heartening to see so many principled Jewish voices react with outrage over the actions of the Israeli government and the complicity of other Jews who either support the slaughter, or cannot be bothered to speak out, or are too frightened to go against what they feel is the prevailing mood.

    Thank you Richard, thank you Jerry, thank you all.

  8. When Israel responds and civilians are killed because Israel is targeting an area from which rockets were launched, then it is Hamas which bears responsibility for the deaths, and not Israel.

    1. That is absolutely contrary to the way the laws of war work. If a nation kills civilians the victims are not at fault no matter what the enemy army did. It is the army that killed the civilians that is at fault. There are legitimate, legal ways of fighting a war and there are illegitimate ,illegal, immoral ways to wage war. Both you and Israel fall into the latter category.

  9. Evildoer, read the statement carefully. It claims that the Palestinians have no less a right to self-defense than the Israelis, and I have advocated for years that were the Palestinians to have a state, they would have no less right to a powerful army than the Israelis.

    But even without a state they have a right to self-defense. There is nothing in the statement that denies the Palestinians the right to an armed struggle against the Israelis, coincident with the laws of war and international human rights.

    Moreover, anybody reading carefully will see that I see no moral equivalence between lobbing rockets on a civilian population and accurately bombing and destroying civilians.

    That said, we made a conscious decision to go with the human rights organizations against the defenders of the rockets.

  10. How can people who have suffered through the holocaust descend into such cruelty and inhumanity? The state of Israel is using the holocaust to create a holocaust of their own to the native population of Palestine. Slaughtering a defenseless captive population and destroying the little infrastructure they have is a tactic borrowed straight from the Nazis. I am ashamed of this country and will never donate a dime. In fact, I am telling everyone I know to boycot and help end the occupation in the same way that Apartheid in S. Africa was ended.

  11. The indiscriminate firing of rockets into civilian areas is considered a war crime, and is condemned by human rights organizations like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. Hence, we condemn it. This statement is not the place for a discussion about what are the legitimate ways for Palestinians to engage in an armed struggle for their freedom. Please read what we say about the Palestinian and Israeli right to self-defense.

    At least that is what I think, but the statement stands on its own.

  12. Richard, Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have sent my name. Just to address a comment by Mr Stein: “Are you calling for Hamas to stop firing rockets at Israel? It wasn’t clear to me from the text.”

    I agree with Mr Haber that this statement is not the place to discuss this. Although we can have varying feelings, attitudes and opinions towards those who employ aggression against us, how we should react to that aggression, what the antecedents were for that aggression or what we should do or should have done in this case to prevent that aggression, the fact remains that only we are responsible for own behavior. It is not necessary every time one speaks of getting one’s own house in order to also bring up all the bad things one’s neighbors are also doing.

    God bless and for my fellow Jewish readers Shabbat Shalom.

  13. thank you for speaking out against this conflict. I wish the statement further clarified the need to withdraw from other occupied territories as well, and also the need to create a just society for jews and non-jews within the legal borders of Israel.

    1. Do you know how to read? Try reading what I’ve written about Hamas. Try reading the statement opposing the war and read what it says about Hamas attacks against Israeli civilians. You are ignorant, an apologist for Israel AND you don’t know how to do research before spouting off.

  14. Please create a facebook page for this statement. It will be simpler for people to sign and be a part of it, as well as spread the word to their network.

  15. To Yehuda: Israelis have suffered one dead per 200 odd rockets fired. I’d have been more than happy to do anything, anywhere you wanted in Sderot, Sheva or anywhere else in Israel since 27th Dec, IF you’d been prepared to drive an ambulance in Gaza.

    To Evildoer: Are you in danger of making the perfect the enemy of the good. I’m European, and very distressed at how tied EU policy has become to the US. I do not see any immediate prospect of the US ceasing to act in an immoral, partisan fashion with regard to Israel/Palestine. In large measure this is because most Americans are woefully ill-informed, or worse, deliberately misinformed. Insofar as the statement raises public awareness, is it not a beneficial thing. All the Palestinians I know would be pleased for it to receive as much prominence as possible. Of course they would prefer a proper recognition of the justice of their case, but right now they’d be delighted with anything that erodes the gigantic obstacles they have in addressing US public opinion. Are the differences you are discussing more important than the benefit that could be gained by setting them aside?
    For the sake of clarity, Gaza and the West Bank ARE illegally occupied. There can never be a moral equivalence between violence exercised to continue subjugation and violence exercised to achieve liberation. In my opinion HR organisations such as AI and HRW have fallen into an elephant trap by allowing themselves to be drawn into making an apparent moral equivalence. However that would not prevent me signing the statement if I were qualified to do so.

    Incidentally, is anyone aware of any statistical analysis of the casualty figures? It has occurred to me that the much vaunted ‘targeting’ may have achieved a degree of discrimination little better than the random effects of the rockets.
    The IDF frequently uses civilians as human shields, in one memorable case with a BBC reporter, Orla Guerin (I think). Apart from frequent assertions, I am unaware of any actual evidence that Hamas does this. Does anyone know of any?

  16. If I were Jewish I would sign this statement–I would go far enough along evildoer’spath to agree that one should not condemn the atrocities of the slaves in a slave revolt as harshly as those of the slaveowner but I think it is a mistake to go beyond this and not condemn atrocities committed by the oppressed. As long as one makes it clear that Israel is ultimately the oppressor here, there’s no good reason to engage in self-censorship about Palestinian atrocities.

    The statement Jerry and Richard have written doesn’t bother me at all. Compare it to Bill Moyers’ overpraised (by Glenn Greenwald and others) statement last week on his show, where he said Hamas would like to see every Jew in Israel dead and where he says in his reply to Abe Foxman (on the show’s blog) that he doesn’t make any moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas, meaning Hamas is far worse. I think statements like his, even though he condemns Israel’s brutality, may do almost as much harm as good.

  17. I sent an email. Please include my name on the list:
    Nomi Hurwitz

    (no known connection with David Horowitz other than my mother being a classmate of his in high school…her last name began with “F” so they sere seated near each other)

    and I will promote the facebook group when I find it…

    Love and Peace,

  18. I am very disturbed that Israel not only doesn’t apologise for their actions in Gaza, now the public is saying it didn’t go far enough as the farthest of right wing parties is gaining ground in the upcoming elections. This is a suicidal course that threatens us all. I appeal to all Jews and those of Jewish descent: Please do not tie your self esteem and identity to that of Israel. They are on a course towards destruction. There are one billion Muslims to 14 million Israelis. Iran and Russia are creditor nations whilst Israel, Canada and the U.S. are debtor nations. One day the U.S. will deem Israel too much trouble to deal with and will severely curtail ties if not cut them off completely. Then what will happen. There is no other nation that will back Israel as heavily as the U.S. and Canada. All the creditor nations condemn Israel’s actions. Another thing to consider. While the world is looking toward Iran for trouble, everybody is ignoring Russia. Russia’s population is now 60% Muslim. Mother Russia is still armed to the teeth with nukes. I am convinced that the next nation to use nuclear weapons will be Israel. And that will precipitate WW III. WE CANNOT LET THIS HAPPEN!

  19. As powerful /vehement clear a statement as ever from Warschawski ! (see titles – amazon.com)/miriam
    http://www.alternativenews.org/content/view/1545/389/
    Written by Michael Warschawski,
    Alternative Information Center (AIC)
    18 January 2009 (see photo)

    *ABSOLUTELY NOT! NOT IN THEIR NAME, NOT IN OURS*

    Ehud Barak, Tzipi Livni, Gabi Ashkenazi and Ehud Olmert–don’t you dare show your faces at any memorial ceremony for the heroes of the Warsaw Ghetto,
    Lublin, Vilna or Kishinev.

    And you too, “leaders of Peace Now”, for whom peace means a pacification of the Palestinian resistance by any means, including the destruction of a people.
    Whenever I will be there, I shall personally do my best to expel each of you from these events, for your very presence would be an immense sacrilege.

    *Not in Their Names*

    You have no right to speak in the name of the martyrs of our people. You are not Anne Frank of the Bergen Belsen concentration camp but Hans Frank, the German general who acted to starve and destroy the Jews of Poland.

    You are not representing any continuity with the Warsaw Ghetto, because today the Warsaw Ghetto is right in front of you, targeted by your own tanks and artillery, and its name is Gaza.

    Gaza that you have decided to eliminate from the map, as General Frank Intended to eliminate the Ghetto. But, unlike the Ghettos of Poland and Belorussia, in which the Jews were left almost alone, Gaza will not be eliminated because
    Millions of men and women from the four corners of our world are building a Powerful human shield carrying two words: Never Again!

    *Not in Our Name!*

    Together with tens of thousands of other Jews, from Canada to Great Britain, from Australia to Germany, we are warning you: DON’T DARE TO SPEAK in OUR NAMES , because we will run after you, even, if needed, to the hell of War-criminals, and stuff your words down your throat until you ask for Forgiveness for having mixed us up with your crimes.

    We, and not you, are the children of Mala Zimetbaum and Marek Edelman, of Mordechai Anilevicz and Stephane Hessel, and we are conveying their message to humankind for custody in the hands of the Gaza resistance fighters:
    “We are fighting for Our freedom and yours, for our pride and yours, for our human, social and national dignity and yours.”
    (Appeal of the Ghetto to the world, Passover 1943)

    But for you, the leaders of Israel, “freedom” is a dirty word.
    You have no pride and you do not understand the meaning of human dignity.

    We are not “Another Jewish voice,” but the sole Jewish voice able to speak in the names of the tortured saints of the Jewish people.
    Your voice is nothing other than the old bestial vociferations of the killers of our ancestors.

  20. I agree; Zionist government does need to be stopped. American government, also, needs to STOP funding this holocaust of the people of Palestine. It IS disheartening to see a people who came through such horrors do to another group what was done to them.
    When America and the United Nations said, along with Israel, “never again”, I don’t believer we were ONLY speaking of ONLY the Jews/Zionists. WE meant never again; NO group of people should EVER have to suffer these atrocities, EVER AGAIN.
    Yet, somehow, we have allowed the Zionists to do exactly this. It’s wrong. Israel needs to be stopped NOW.

    1. Hi,

      I’m a script writer and I have wrote a film showing the war through the eyes of a Jewish girl and a Palestinian boy. i believe the film would educate the world on this terrible war and breach of human rights. Do you know anyone who would be interested in getting involved in my film?

      Thanks

      Assh

  21. Hey,

    does anyone else think doing a film showing the war in Gaza from both the Palestinian and Israeli side is a good idea? I’ve wrote a fantastic film, does anyone want to read it?

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