Seattle’s Initiative 97, which called for divestment of the city’s pension fund from U.S. companies benefiting from Israel’s Occupation and settlement building, received a severe legal blow today. A Superior Court judge agreed with lawyers hired by Stand With Us, a national pro-Israel advocacy group, who claimed the initiative violated state law by interfering with fiscal decisions legally vested in the city pension board, and not with voters. The e mail from Divest from War was aptly titled “A Sad Day for Grassroots Democracy in Seattle.”
I-97’s supporters argued that state law did not preclude the voters from having a say. In addition, they argued that democracy would best be served by allowing the voters to have their say based on the merits of the arguments for or against the proposal.
A supporter of the initiative said:
“This is a blow to grassroots democracy in the city of Seattle,” says campaign volunteer and Phinney Neighbors for Peace member Karen Jones. “This ruling says that there is one aspect of city operations that is not subject to legislative oversight, giving too much power to the pension board. However, this campaign is in no way over.”
In effect, Stand With Us, a stridently partisan pro-Israel group, sought to stifle the democratic voice of the people. It didn’t even want to allow the issue to come before them. Given the fact that the people of Seattle likely might have rejected the initiative, the opposing side’s strategy appears quite desperate and cynical. Not only that, documents presented at a public meeting show that SWU and the Jewish community were prepared to spend up to $85,000 to defeat the initiative, a remarkable amount of money for a race that had no commercial interests involved.
Currently, I-97’s supporters are contemplating whether to appeal to the State Supreme Court. Since their lawyer has taken the case pro bono, they and he must carefully consider their options before going forward. The well-funded coffers of I-97’s opponents pose no such problem for the other side.
One of the most disturbing aspects of the campaign against I-97 were the deliberate, preposterous lies which claimed that the legislation was “anti-Israel” and that, if passed, it would harm Israel’s ability to defend itself from Palestinian terror. Partisans willingly obscured the fact that the campaign was FOR Israel by being AGAINST the Occupation. In the eyes of the opponents, any criticism of Israeli policy–including the Occupation–was, ipso facto, anti-Israel–an odd proposition, but one extremely common to pro-Israel partisans like SWU.
I was also disappointed that a popular progressive Seattle political blog like Horse’s Ass and its author, David Goldstein, was absent from the debate. Several e-mails to him went unanswered after he had initially expressed some interest in the issue.
Aaah, those evil Zionist Jews with their deep pockets and their world domination conspiracy … Ooooh, the poor oppressed innocent Palestinian Arabs …
Well, my dear Leftist demagogues, the legislation was indeed “anti-Israel” and, if passed, would have harmed Israel’s ability to defend itself from Palestinian terror. As such, the campaign could NOT have been FOR Israel by being AGAINST the so-called “Occupation,” duh.
It is your uninformed opinions that constitute preposterous lies. The “terrotories” are disputed, NOT “occupied” — what state was there before 1967? That territory was annexed by Jordan in the course of the 1948-49 war, and then taken by Israel in 1967 in its defensive war against its murderous neighbors bent on Israel’s destruction. Not like it belonged to some sovereign state before that — it was part of the British Mandate Palestine, which was meant for the Jews — that is, before the British changed their mind and gave most of Palestine to the Hashemites, which created Transjordan. And before that, it was the backwater of the Ottoman Empire.
But none of that concerns you primitive lefties, seeing the world through the distorted prism of “class struggle”, “national liberation” (what is Zionism but a national liberation movement of the Jewish people?), “colonialism”, etc.
What if the underdog is a vicious murderer — would you still support him in his “noble” struggle? Duh … You still think like Goebbels, who posited that if a lie is repeated a 1000 times, the people will start believing it.
I’m so tired of your kind … ugh …
@Seva Brodsky:
This is an OUTRIGHT LIE. I’ve challenged Rob Jacobs in a comment thread here to support this claim & he didn’t. I challenge you to support it with one scintilla of real evidence. You can’t. But do try.
Ah we have a settler supporter among us. THe only people who use the term “disputed” are extremist settlers & their nationalist supporters. BTW, do you live in a settlement or do you merely support them fr. afar?
International law & just about every credible legal authority and foreign government (including Israel’s own diplomatic lawyers) have defined the territories as “occupied.” Hence, they are occupied whether you call them that or not. Israel conquered the territories in 1967 & will eventually withdraw from most of that territory when a peace treaty is signed. You will scream bloody murder while the rest of us and the vast majority of Israelis breath a sigh of relief.
You can’t possibly be as tired of my views as I am of yours.
Well, let me take your statements one by one.
1. “U.S. companies benefiting from Israel’s Occupation and settlement building” means just about any U.S. company doing business with Israel — this is a very clever way to target U.S. companies almost indiscriminately. This includes those Co.-s that provide equipment and arms to the IDF. Harming those companies “would have harmed Israel’s ability to defend itself from Palestinian terror.” I thought this would be kinda obvious, no?
2. Richard, are you feigning ignorance, are you ignorant, or are you willfully ignoring the facts? Never mind what some Israelis say — we have enough morons and self-loathing Jews (including you) who use legally wrong terminology.
What is important is that there is enough consensus in the sane legal community (both inside and outside Israel) to call those territories disputed, whose final status has never been resolved. And it never will be if the Palestinian Arabs continue their genocidal campaign against Israel — the Arabs are their own worst enemy.
As for your stupid statement, which also happens to be factually wrong — that “THe only people who use the term “disputed” are extremist settlers & their nationalist supporters” — do you do your own homework, or do you want me to teach you how to use Google search?
BTW, to satisfy your curiosity, I live in the united and hopefully never to be divided Jerusalem, where everyone is free to practice their faith, or believe in nothing, if they so choose. This, let me remind you, was NOT the case under the Jordanian occupation.
3. Your statement that “Israel conquered the territories in 1967 & will eventually withdraw from most of that territory when a peace treaty is signed” is wishful thinking on your part. The Arabs will do anything to prevent that from happening — they have been quite successful so far. The vast majority of Israelis have already realized that they have been duped by Oslo, by the “disengagement” and other such silly and suicidal nonsense.
4. Lord, how I am sick of all this political correctness BS, moral relativism, cognitive egocentrism, willful blindness, and wishful thinking … I bet you’ll be voting for Obama, Richard. Judenrat in action. Why do my people have so many sickos? One answer is in Dr. Kenneth Levine’s book “The Oslo Syndrome — Delusions of People Under Siege” — it explains the skewed thinking of some Israelis. As for American Jews — that’s a whole other story. Many books and articles have been written about it. Still, such suicidal tendencies never cease to baffle me.
Richard, you can go and jump off the bridge if you care to — but don’t expect me to follow you, OK? Moreover, if you are hesitating whether to jump, I can assure you that you should — hell, I would even be willing to give you a push, should you be in need of it.
Until then, though, save your breath — I am bored, OK? Preach to your useful idiots in private. I am not sure I will bother to respond anymore, unless you stick your foot in your mouth again. And maybe even then I won’t, dunno, will see.
@Seva Brodsky:
That’s horsecrap & you know it.
No, it includes companies like Caterpillar which provide armored bulldozers to the IDF which destroy Palestinian homes. No other companies have been specifically mentioned as being targets. The initiative does not target companies providing military equipment to the IDF since much of that equipment can be justifiably argued is defensive in nature. There is no way to argue that a Caterpillar bulldozer destroying private homes is defensive.
I would challenge you to find a single word either in the initiative or written by the group supporting the measure which argues that any company doing business with Israel or the IDF will be a target. The only people arguing this are Stand With Us and you. And you all have a highly partisan agenda.
This is a clear violation of my comment rules. READ THEM if you want to continue publishing comments here. If you break the rules again your privileges will be revoked. If you want to argue ad hominem & be a sleazy, insulting propagandist there are plenty of other places to do that. NOT HERE.
Just curious about whether you live beyond the Green Line in Jerusalem. Inquiring minds want to know whether you’re living on land conquered from the Palestinians, not that this moral issue would bother you in the least.
BTW, Jerusalem will be SHARED, not divided. And you will be screaming bloody murder as it happens. And it will make me so sad to see your pain.
Who is the sane legal community? What are their ideological affiliations? Virtually the entire community of international law specialists, foreign governments, & most Israelis themselves call them the Occupied Territories. Only extreme nationalists like you use the term “disputed.” Huff & puff all you like, but that’s the truth & you can’t run fr. it. I’m going to throw it back at you. Do a Google search on the 2 terms & tell me how many results you get for each version. I would guess there would be 100 times as many results under “Occupied Territoriy” as under “disputed territory.”
Actually, Israel with the help of propagandists like you, is it’s own worst enemy.
Using Nazi era terminology to describe me and using terms implying moral depravity or mental illness are GROSS violations of my comment rules & you have been banned.
No, it’s actually you who is driving the State of Israel to Masada-like suicide with yr bellicosity, hatred & refusal to compromise. Don’t expect me, American Jews or Israelis for that matter to drink the CoolAid & die with you.
You are a base and disgusting human being & a gross embarrassment to the Jewish people. Y’mach shimcha v’zichroncha.
Don’t worry about responding again. You’ve fixed yr wagon & won’t be.
this is a pretty uninspiring exchange, both of you resorting rather rapidly to name-calling and invective, including totalistic language. it is striking that people who claim they love the “other” are so quick to despise those of their own who embarrass them.
i don’t want to get into the details of this particular proposition, but i do think one comment you made, richard, revealed why you are viewed by many not so much as an anti-Zionist but as a fool.
“Jerusalem will be shared, not divided.” Such a heartwarming and politically correct sentiment, with so little chance to becoming real, given the nature of Palestinian political and religious culture, a classic case of projecting your progressive thinking onto a population that, while talking a good game (at least for some eager believers) actually has pursued “la politique du pire” (worse is better because zero-sum is the only way to win) from the beginning.
it’s that kind of thinking that leads some foolishly to call for what would surely be a cultural, social and political disaster — a single, bi-national, secular democratic state. and as you pursue your deadly chimeras with loving smiles on your faces, you bare your teeth at people who warn that you’re making a critical mistake.
i’ll grant you that Seva’s way of arguing is less than civil. but i thought progressives were forgiving. in order to think the way you do, you must forgive the palestinians for a things a great deal more vicious and offensive. but then… they’re the “other”.
@rlandes:
Did I say I “loved” Seva Brodsky? I loathe him as much as I loathe the haters on the Arab side. And you again minimize what Brodsky wrote. He didn’t merely attempt to “embarrass” me. He said he would push me off a height if it would kill me.
Correction. I am viewed by you & yr arch right-wing pro-Israel partisans as a fool. That’s a tag I’ll gladly accept since it means that my ideas are entirely reasonable & sensible. If you embraced any of my ideas I’d have to wonder what I’m doing wrong.
Jerusalem WILL be shared. It is an entirely pragmatic & realistic solution that is already embraced in principle by public opinion on both sides. The Israeli political leadership, however, has lagged behind. It will catch up however much as it will pain you.
No, I bare my teeth at those who threaten my life or threaten the life of an Israeli prime minister, as a commenter here has done. I have no problem w. someone who warns me I’m making a critical mistake when they do so in the specific language you used in that phrase. In fact, I welcome such dissent & engage it. Unfortunately, most opponents here don’t write using such civil terms. I wish they did. They find insults preferable.
“Less than civil?” Do you call using the term “sicko” & claiming I’m not a Jew, and threatening to beat me up or throw me off a building “less than civil???” If so, you’re in denial.
Jerusalem is already shared but since Richard rarely walks in Jerusalem he does not know
The West Bank is already shared by Arabs and Jews who are much more Palestinian than Arabs who immigrated to Palestine from Arabia long after Jews; it will stay so in the foreseeable future
The Golan is also shared and it will stay Israeli though the British gave it to the French Syria without asking Palestinian Jews and Arabs
The East Bank is free of Jews and there are many tours there for Americans who want to enjoy pure Arab Palestine.
They may also enjoy the free Gaza.
It is peace and quiet in Palestine where Israel, Jordan, Fatahlands and Gaza coexist and some skirmishes are played out to diminish boredom and milk the donors from Europe and the US
@zinovy: “Shared” with the Palestinians if you mean like a beggar beseechs a rich swell for a crumb from his plate. That’s not my idea of “sharing.” Just because I breath the same air as you doesn’t mean we share the earth’s resources equally if I live in the 3rd world & you live in the first.
In the not too distant future, Jerusalem & the Golan will truly be shared. It will cause you great pain, psychic suffering & gnashing of teeth. But you’ll get over it. I do suggest though if you’re so enamored of the Greater Land of Israel that you reside in a settlement under Palestinian sovereignty. That will be a true test of the strength & consistency of yr convictions.
i presume you (RS) think that the third world is poor because the first world robbed them of their wealth. it probably wdn’t occur to you that in some cases — the arab one is particularly clear as argued by the Arab study for the UN — it’s a product of a predatory political culture that takes rather than makes and produces its own miseries (whether israelis are involved or not).
the reason i think you’re a fool is precisely the kind of statement you make about how public opinion on both sides wants to share the city. it’s like arabs who say they want democracy. sounds good. but are they ready to give up honor-killings (which are, incidentally, not individual acts, but responses to ferocious social pressure)? even if “public opinion” supported a fair sharing of the city, what makes you think that on the palestinian side such civility is going to dominate?
you may consider the current “sharing” to be far from acceptable, but compared to how the city was run under muslims, it’s heaven on earth.
@rlandes: I’m talking about facts, polls and quantifiable opinions and you’re talking about honor killing. It’s ridiculous. I’m not going to try to prove to you that Palestinians can rule themselves just as well as Israelis can rule themselves. I’ll leave you to bask in your racism and darkness. Reality will prove you wrong w/o my interference in yr blissful sleep of the politically obtuse. Sweet dreams of Arab perfidy.
Richard:
open your eyes. People in America live in tenements and in monster mansions. Why don’t you think OLAMly and act in the US instead of trying to rectify Levant?
Many Jews live in their Palestinian bantustans as the 3rd world (using your term) sufferers and many Arabs in Gaza and Ramallah live in villas.
Jews who live in their pioneer villages are the true altruists
@zinovy:
What a great fictional narrative. Jews living in their nice neat villages minding their own business, acting out their Jewish destiny and harming no one. Ah, sweet.
This guy’s either a settler or a settler wannabe.
Richard:
It seems to me that you are a settler-Seattler but a devious one. You live on the land stolen from Amerindians who were compensated by death.
You (your parents, grandparents?) preferred other people to do a dirty job of killing the great people who inhabited the Pacific Coast. Later you and your cohorts moved into vacant lots and build exclusive neighborhoods, gated communities and spacious European dwellings.
You are soooo clean, you do not personally secure oil for your car and/or home, you do not go shopping for food produced by peons and you do not want a secure national home for Jews. You want and get a well policed home for yourself, just for yourself…
[deleted for violations of comment rules]
@zinovy:
You know just about nothing about American history or Jewish immigration to this country.
No, actually there was a monetary settlement with local Indian tribes over their claims regarding Seattle/Tacoma within the past 2 decades if I recall correctly.
My ancestors came to this country decades after Americans had done in the Native Americans. I don’t see myself or my ancestors as having any direct responsibility for what happened. Though of course I believe that America as a nation does have a responsiblity to rectify past injustices.
Just as I believe that Israel has such an obligation which it has shirked.
The food I buy is largely produced by local farmers who earn a decent livelihood from the farmer’s markets at which I shop.
Richard:
You and your community live on an ethnically cleansed land.
It was a thorough job by people who allowed you (as the rulers of many kingdoms in the past) to come and settle in their new empire.
Your ancestors were ecstatic and even changed their name Zilbershtein to Silverstein (“We are yours!” they bowed to the Anglo-Saxon Americans) and they give you the name Richard. Many killers, land grabbers and slave owners were Richards too. It is not a Jewish name!
@zinovy:
I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Are you claiming that Jews ruled many kingdoms in the past?? WHich ones besides their own & even that one a millenia or so ago?
Personally, I think you’re a raving lunatic.
Richard:
Thank you for the help in grammar.
Your language ability does not change the facts though.
Your ancestors crawled on their bellies and asked to be accepted as “dhimmies” into the American society. The American army and irregulars have just finished the genocide of the Mongoloid natives and “Hiawatha sailed away”. Your ancestors shed their names, language and pride and were allowed to settle on the land still red from blood and salty from tears. They did benefit from slaves, wars and nukes. And you feel yourself clean and ready to preach.
But wait! The Mongoloids will take this land again. Perhaps by that time your grandgrandchildren will be assimilated well enough thanks to your efforts. Or they will become Sil Ver Man.
As for Jewish pioneers in Judea and Samaria they do not have mighty protection of the numerous killers-for-hire as you do.
@rlandes: I’m talking about facts, polls and quantifiable opinions and you’re talking about honor killing. It’s ridiculous. I’m not going to try to prove to you that Palestinians can rule themselves just as well as Israelis can rule themselves. I’ll leave you to bask in your racism and darkness. Reality will prove you wrong w/o my interference in yr blissful sleep of the politically obtuse. Sweet dreams of Arab perfidy.
if you think that the data polling offers bears any relation to “facts” then you really are a naif, especially when those answering know that the question being asked has implications for how “they” are being viewed by those asking. honor-killings, on the other hand, are “facts”, not only in that they occur (let’s not try and quantify something that is popular but “illegal”), but in that they only occur where there is widespread communal support — even demand — for such an action. so the existence, even at relatively low levels, speaks eloquently on a whole range of social and psychological factors.
you don’t seem to think that you need to even discuss whether arabs can rule themselves just as the israelis can rule themselves. why is that? is it because with 22 arab countries, none of which even approach the minimal levels of democratic self-rule, and one jewish state which has exceptionally high levels of commitment to things like freedom of speech and press, elections, rule of law, etc., it’s impossible to make that argument? or is it because you are so dogmatically committed to the “equality of all cultures” that you cannot even allow the possibilities of such cultural differences to enter the discussion?
is that why you prefer to heap abuse on my position as the thinking of a dark racism? what if reality proves you wrong? what if israel were to give the palestinians everything beyond the green line and it led, not to a neighbor democracy, but to some kind of tyrannical theocracy (as we see in Gaza), which used scapegoating and war to distract its subjects from the oppression it brought them? would you admit to error? or just blame the israelis in order to maintain your world view?
my guess is the latter, which is why you are not just naive, but aggressively so. sweet dreams of arab innocence and israeli perfidy. i guess sometimes it’s just easier to hate your own side than look at the darkness next door.
rlanders, so, your hypothetical that the Palestinian state will be a tyranny is a justification for denying them the state? What world are you living in? What if I kidnapped you, put you in chains my cellar and when claimed that you cannot not be let free because I have a suspicion that you might turn to be a very bad person indeed, how would you like it?
The fact is, Israel did occupy the Palestinian territories on these grounds (i.e., to prevent establishment of a tyrannical state). It is just a convenient red herring for you to switch the attention for the real reasons Israel occupies the territories.
@rlandes: Oh, please. Just more blather about Arab deceit & subterfuge. MOdern polling techniques know how to account for all manner of dissembling among respondents. They ask questions several diff. ways to ensure they are getting a candid response. I trust well-constructed polls far more than I trust yr twisted interpretation of Islam.
Honor killing is a fact only in that it is a single event or series of discrete events that happen. I would no more condemn all Muslims or all Arabs because of honor killing than I would condemn all of Judaism because Jews believed in stoning homosexuals or adulterers. But hey, you’re welcome to yr hate. Glory in it. It makes you strong (with bile).
To say that Arabs cannot rule themselves is yet another racist stereotype of which you seem replete. If Israelis faced the same horrific conditions as Gazans, they’d rule themselves equally badly I have no doubt.
You are SO BORING. The 22 Arab countries enslaved by despotism & the one shining beacon of liberty. Ugh! Don’t you get tired of hearing yr own voice. BTW, Lebanon is a democracy which you seem to have forgotten. It’s not functioning particularly well these days. But considering its tragic history it’s not doing too badly these days. I guess you left Lebanon out because it was inconvenient to yr Arab bashing.
Israel’s commitment to freedom of speech and the press & rule of law is nothing like the way you paint it. The Israeli press is subject to strict military censorship in certain situations. The rule of law only applies in certain circumstances & almost never when it regards the Territories & Israeli behavior there. So much for Israel’s sterling democracy. Not to mention Israeli Arabs being 2nd or 3rd class citizens because–well, they’re not members of the superior class.
Racist ideologues like you always say things like: what if Israel gave those beasts everything they demanded & they turned around & decided to exterminate us. It’s a really winning, cogent argument. Justifies not doing anything in response to the chance for peace. So no, compromise is not nor ever can be error. War is error. Intransigence is error. Racism is error. You are error.
Israeli is not perfidious. You are.
@zinovy: You’re just getting too weird & bizarre. I don’t think we need to hear anymore from you. Racism & outright ugliness is definitely a bannable offense here & you are banned.
Jews benefited from slaves? What are you talking about? There were hardly any Jews in this country when the slaves were emancipated.
Israeli settlers are there own killers for hire. They don’t need to hire out. They breed their own & do their own killings.