Daphna Ziman, Israeli native and top L.A. Jewish Clinton fundraiserBrad Greenberg, who writes the GodBlog for the L.A. Jewish Journal wrote to me today about the strange case of local Jewish philanthropist and Clinton bundler, Daphna Ziman, who has taken to the airwaves to denounce the Obama campaign as “a movement that will destroy us [the Jews].” It all starts innocently enough with an African American fraternity dinner at which Ziman was honored for her work supporting African-American foster children.
The keynote was delivered by Rev. Eric Lee, director of the local Southern Christian Leadership Conference chapter. That’s when all hell broke loose. Here’s how Ziman characterized the speech in an e mail which became a viral sensation thanks to its dissemination via the 50,000 member e mail list of militantly pro-Israel group Stand With Us:
I have to tell you of an experience I had last night that was so anti semitic [sic] and frightening:
…He [Rev. Lee] began his speech by thanking Jesus for Obama, who is going to be the leader of the world. He continued by referring to other leaders Like Dr. King, being that this was the moment of celebrating Dr. King’s spirit on the anniversary of his assasination [sic], and Malcolm X.
It was right after the mention of Malcolm X that he looked right at me and started talking about the African American children who are suffering because of the JEWS [in the entertainment industry] that have featured them as rapists and murderers.
He spoke of a Jewish Rabbi, and then corrected himself to say “What other kind of Rabbis are there, but JEWS”. He told how this Rabbi came to him to say that he would like to bring the AA community and the Jewish community together. ” NO, NO, NO,!!!!” he shouted into the crowd, we are not going to come together. “The Jews have made money on us in the music business and we are the entertainers, and they are economically enslaving us.”
…He continued as to how now the salvation has come and the gates have open for African Americans to come together behind Barack Obama, because now is the time to show them.(meaning thejews). He continued to speak about ‘ White supremecy’ [sic] vs the talents and visionaries in the core of African Americans. He demeaned being given freedom, by saying “To what?” to a country that kills women and children.
I could no longer be polite and sit in front of the crowd, so I walked out.
I cried for me and my family, who have tried so hard to help the African American community, because we adopted children from the same realities and wanted to give back to other children and people. We have been completely color blind, for us it was only helping those children in need.
I cried for our beloved country and the division that Barack Obama has caused with his Rev. Wright opening the gates to ‘hate’ against the Jews and whites. I grew up so looking at America as the land of Freedom.
I was honored to receive my citizenship accompanied by members of the Kennedy family. Now, I’m afraid for Israel because Barack sat there for 20 years listening and not standing up for what’s right, why would he standup for Israel?
I cried for the Jewish community who are so blind that they can’t see that there’s a movement here that will destroy us. I cried because for the first time in my life I was afraid of the future.
I cried for our world that is moving backwards and not forward. Everyday, I see children so lost, and so deserving of hope and love. I look into their eyes, knowing that it is their lives that are in our hands. I’m crying now, so I’m going to stop writing because it is so painful.
I don’t know Daphna Ziman. I wasn’t at the dinner. But judging by the histrionics in her account it sounds to me like an extremely emotional, overwrought person who perhaps unconsciously, perhaps unintentionally sees her opportunity to create another Rev. Wright moment for the Obama campaign. I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt. She’s a true believer in the Clinton cause. She truly sees Obama as a mortal danger to America and Israel. She feels she’s doing her duty by bringing this incident to the attention of a few hundred thousand of her Jewish best friends.
Unfortunately, what we have here are the Obamaphobic Jewish gremlins again let loose to wreak havoc on a presidential campaign. I hate to use such a Christian motif but for the love of God someone’s got to drive a stake through the heart of such nonsense. Forget about the impact it has on the Obama campaign. It’s even worse for the Clinton campaign. Here you have one of her major California bundlers practically on the warpath over an event with no direct connection at all to Obama. To call this a stretch is to use utmost understatement.
To make matters even worse, Ziman has chosen to publicize her charges in an interview with neo-con Pajamas Media blogger Roger Simon. I should add that Pajamas Media’s chief funder, Aubrey Chernick, is a major supporter of Stand With Us, the group which put the “V” in viral in promoting Ziman’s assault on Obama.
One of the more laughably self-serving statements in Ziman’s video is:
“This is not about politics for me. This was not about anything else. This is about my people.
The odd thing about this is she probably does sincerely believe it’s not about politics. But just because she believes it, doesn’t mean it’s true. Does she think that Pajamas Media wants to promote her story out of pure love for the Jewish people?? ‘Course not. It’s political, baby. You better believe it.
I just came across this from the Wilshire & Washington blog which blows the lid off Ziman’s protestations of disinterest in politics. She has written an “essay” called The Road to the White House is Paved by a Distorted Media in which she writes the following:
Well, I have many questions that I dare ask Barack (must not mention middle name or else) Obama.
1. Were you born Barry Dunham or Barack Hussein Obama?
2. Did you change your name? When? Where? And Why?
3. Was there a naming ceremony? Where? Under what circumstances?
4 .Why are we not allowed to mention your middle name?It occurred to me that the identity of a potential Commander and Chief is rather important…
What we have here is a loose cannon. And this isn’t the first or even second time she’s done something similar as Newsweek reported one of her earlier forays into smearing Obama for being soft on Israel.
Returning to the speech, Rev. Lee emphatically denies Ziman’s charges:
“None of those words are what I said. Not a single word. My goodness,” Lee said. “I look at the Jewish community as allies in our quest for advancement. For me, it doesn’t do any good to indict anybody. I just need help in changing the characterization of African Americans through the entertainment industry, and whoever can help me is fine. And without question there are a lot of influential members of the Jewish community that may be able to help us with that.”
…In fact, disputing her description, Lee noted that he and members of the SCLC are scheduled to take part in a black-Jewish seder organized by the American Jewish Committee on April 17 at Wilshire Boulevard Temple. Eli Lipmen, the AJC’s L.A. spokesman, said Lee has been a friend of the Jewish community.
“Absolutely,” Lipmen said. “SCLC is a respected organization in the community and we have worked with them in the past.”
Lee said his speech began by faulting the black community for its own failings: “I indicted the African American community more so for spending $930 billion and not having control of any industries and for having such a high dropout rate and having 40 percent of our children in foster care.”
Lee said he referenced a conversation he had with an unidentified rabbi, during which he said the two communities needed to address the negative characterization of blacks on TV and in movies “for a genuine collaboration to take place.”
“Black leaders have gone to black entertainment leaders and said, ‘Take the “n” word out of your music and take the “b” word out of your music,'” Lee said in an interview. “And so, my thinking is — in building a relationship, and reconnecting, as it were, like when Dr. King was alive in the civil rights movement — is that our friends and allies in the Jewish community who have influence in the entertainment community can help us in changing the depiction of African Americans.”
In case any of you have been under a bushel for the past few decades, I must tell you that we Jews can get very touchy about certain subjects. We’re petrified about anti-Semitism because we endured so much suffering at the hands of evil ones like Hitler. We sometimes see enemies even where they aren’t because our antennae are so focused on nuances of words, phrases and thoughts that might be anti-Semitic. We have had so many enemies we tend to see them even where they may not be.
Further, Israel is a nation under siege. That makes some of us even more sensitive to such issues. Daphna Ziman has a very extreme case of anti-Semitism-itis. Such a condition does neither Jews nor anyone we come into contact with any good. It turns us into cartoon versions of Jews like Abe Foxman. And it can really hurt presidential candidates we support when we call their opponents racists and anti-Semites.
In fairness, I should add that Rev. Lee released a public statement in response to Ziman’s charges and it doesn’t do him any favors:
…The Black Power Movement emerged after the assassination of Dr. King and it was a direct response to the negative characterizations of African Americans through the silver screen, TV and the music industry, industries that are perceived to be influenced by many in the Jewish community. I then stated to the Rabbis that the Black Power Movement was our effort to define for ourselves our own identity rather than be defined by anyone else. I then indicated in my presentation that I told the Rabbis’ that before a genuine coalition could be rebuilt between our communities, there would have to be dialogue and efforts made to deal with the negative characterizations of African Americans.
It appears to me that Lee is a tone-deaf African-American minister who hasn’t yet learned how to speak in a nuanced fashion about the issues he wants to address. He verges on anti-Semitism without quite coming right out and saying anything that is explicitly so. Slightly troubling? Maybe.
But to take offense in the ‘chewing the scenery’ way Ziman did indicates a person who herself has some problem negotiating life’s byways with a sense of balance and proportion.
Lee’s allies must’ve told him that his “explanation” was less than satisfying, which is why he released a more forthright apology which stated in part:
I unequivocally denounce any anti-Semitic sentiments, statements and behavior and assure you that such hatred is not reflective of my character and my work. Specifically, I do not believe, and the SCLC does not subscribe to the belief, that Jews control the entertainment industries or are responsible for negative characterizations of African Americans.
The fact is that Lee did in fact get very close to saying what he claims he doesn’t believe. Let this be a lesson to him that sentiments perhaps widely accepted in certain segments of the African-American community will get him into deep doo-doo once they see the light of day in the outside world.
Finally, I think that Hillary Clinton has been done a deep disservice by Daphna Ziman. The latter’s attack on Obama was deeply offensive and not something the Clinton campaign should countenance. If Rev. Lee can be big enough to apologize to Ziman for any comments he made that might be construed as offensive, then the Clinton campaign should direct Ziman to apologize for any comments she made about Obama that could be construed as counter-productive. If Ziman is not willing to make such an apology then Clinton should distance herself from her. No senior Clinton Jewish supporter should have the right to claim that the Obama campaign will destroy the Jewish community or hurt Israel. This should be treif
This quote by Ziman, “And the fact that the African-American community hates us because they think we make money on them — that is the same rhetoric that went on in Nazi Germany, and it ends up with mothers and women and children dying.””
shows she is one of those Jews who simply cannot get over being a victim. I’ve heard the same sentiments from individual Blacks, about the entertainment industry and about Jewish landlords. Who can doubt that Jews had an utterly disproportionate amount of influence in the Hollywood machine which churned out one offensive ‘Black Mammy’ film after another. No – that does not excuse anti-semitism, but one can see where the idea comes from.
Likewise (I grew up in Newark NJ) and there were SOME Jewish landlords and shopowners who exploited the Black community. Of course there were also non-Jews who did the same thing. Malcolm X once made an anti-semitic statement about Jewish landlords. [In his early days.] Does that make him a Nazi? No… it makes him wrong. It certainly doesn’t negate everything he was.
Ziman’s statement comparing African-Americans to Nazis and saying that deaths will result is hysterical and ridiculous. What would her kind of Jewish lover-of-being-a victim do without the Holocaust?
Does she know anything about how the Holocaust is used by Jews in way which defame the memory of its true victims?
Does she know anything about how the survivors of the Holocaust live today in Israel in poverty while Jews like her bask in victimhood?
Does she know about the collusion of some Zionists with the Nazis?
Of course not. She makes me sick.
ellen
Thanks Richard for getting my ire up this early in the morning. 🙂
Or maybe she knows exactly what she’s doing…
Ellen: “Who can doubt that Jews had an utterly disproportionate amount of influence in the Hollywood machine”?
I’m not sure what you mean by “an utterly disproportionate amount.” Are you suggesting that a cabal of Jews got together and said, “It doesn’t matter how talented or creative they are, we’re going to maintain a quota system to keep the goyim out of Hollywood?”
If people are going to fault Jews because of their/our “disproportionate” contributions to the arts and sciences, then Jews ARE being victimized – whether or not they/we claim to be victims.
“Does she know anything about how the survivors of the Holocaust live today in Israel in poverty while Jews like her bask in victimhood?
Does she know about the collusion of some Zionists with the Nazis?”
Do you know anything about how some Holocaust survivors live today in America in poverty? Do you know about the collusion of some Americans with the Nazis? Maybe you do know; maybe you don’t (I don’t know as much about you as you claim to know about Ms. Ziman.) However, I do notice you complaining about Israel’s faults and some Zionists’ faults.
If people like you are going to complain only about Israel or Zionists while overlooking the faults of America (and other nations), then people like you are you are making Israelis and Zionists the victims of your prejudices.
“She makes me sick.”
I hope you recover from your sickness.
@ellen: Zionists “colluded” with Nazis? Like whom? I know there were Zionists who were sympathetic to the German cause because of their hatred for the Brits (as there were also Irish nationalists who felt similarly). But actually colluding with the Nazis? That’s news to me.
Jews in Hollywood had a lot of influence. The movies that came out of Hollywood at that time were mostly racist. That’s not to say that racism is confined to Jews. If Christians had been more influential in Hollywood, I’m sure the movies would have been equally racist. I did not “blame” the Jews for being influential. I simply state facts. And explain why the perception exists among some Black people that Jews are more racist than other White people.
Which perception is not true. Jews also dominated among Whites who went South to fight and die for civil rights. It was after all Goodman and Schwerner who died with Chaney, not O’Neil and Locastro.
I don’t know how America treats Holocaust survivors. I know about American collusion with Nazis. I don’t think that one wrong justifies another wrong.
I suggest you read an article, “When Do We Stop Sitting Shiva for the Holocaust?” http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9082.shtml. Or Norman Finkelstein’s The Holocaust Industry.
I do not overlook the faults of America. Since I am an American I must in some way demonstrate accountability for the monstrous evil that America exercises in many parts of the world. I do what I can here to oppose it. I march and demonstrate and speak and write. I don’t call that overlooking America’s faults.
Since I am a Jew I feel that I must speak out about Israel’s evils. If collective punishment is not an evil, what is? If killing a 4-year old and calling it “anti-terrorism” isn’t evil, what is? If starving and imprisoning an entire population is not evil, what is? If denying people medical care isn’t evil, what is?
I am in agreement with Gilad Atzmon when he says that he will no longer exercise restraint in what he says for fear that someone will call him anti-semite, or self-hating Jew; no matter what we say someone will make that accusation, so – be my guest.
ellen
@ellen: Isn’t saying Hollywood movies were “mostly racist” a bit of a generalization? There were racist movies, there were progressive movies. Some of both kinds were made by Jews, some weren’t. Black people who rant about Jews owning the entertainment industry & therefore being responsible for the poor image of minorities in film & on TV are so far out there as not to be taken seriously.
I never thought I’d see the day when someone in this blog would quote Gilad Atzmon approvingly. The guy is out of his gourd. But he’s right about one thing, he doesn’t know how to exercise restraint. His loony politics are truly “out there.”
Ellen: “Since I am a Jew I feel that I must speak out about Israel’s evils.”
This is an admirable stance; better would be: “Since I am a Jew I feel that I must speak out about all evils.”
But you don’t, do you? You complain about Jews and about Israel until someone like me points out the irrationality of your desire for a sort of one-sided justice, justice for everyone hurt by Jews or Israelis.
You ask, “If collective punishment is not an evil, what is?” You readily shriek phrases like “collective punishment” but you neglect to murmur about what the punishment is supposedly being meted out for. And if, instead of employing what you call collective punishment, Israel attempts to punish the leading perpetrators of the crimes against its citizens, people like you automatically condemn “targeted assassinations” – again ignoring or attempting to minimize the hideousness of the attacks on Israel, instead only condemning Israel. And you say you condemn Israel BECAUSE you are Jewish.
People like you scoff at how impotent home-made rockets are, how they kill so few Israelis. So you think the rocket attacks and the innumerable thwarted attempts to infiltrate and murder Jews aren’t worth bothering over. That’s one vital area where you need to reexamine your position.
Murder is a crime; so is manslaughter; so is attempted murder. You seem to be of the opinion that, whenever a resident of Gaza dies, it is a case of Israel committing murder. I think that sometimes it is justifiable homicide – an attempt to prevent other murders from taking place; I think sometimes it is manslaughter – the unintended killing of four-year-olds and photographers, for instance; sometimes I think it is a kind of vigilante justice by the State of Israel because no-one else seems willing or able to bring the real murderers to trial – and what I describe as a kind of vigilante justice is the closest to “evil,” so I can understand why you decry collective punishment and targeted assassinations.
But what my enemies (I am, after all, a resident of Israel and therefore fair game as far as rocket launchers, suicide bombers, etc. are concerned), what my enemies are guilty of is murder or attempted murder – not manslaughter and (unless you give uncritical credence to Israel’s detractors who declare that living in or being a tourist in Israel is criminal) not justifiable homicide.
Do you think attempted murder should go unpunished? Thousands of cases of attempted murder of Israelis and Jews have occurred. Do you scream for the perpetrators to be tried, submitting furious comments to blogs, or do you dismiss them as not relevant because no one was actually killed, or because the attempts were not made by Jews or Israelis?
I repeat: You seem to demand an irrational, one-sided justice. Please, prove me wrong by supplying URLs for some of your protests against the attacks on Israel, or even cite some articles you have read that demand equal (or preferably, to make a point, unilateral) justice for Jews and Israel vis a vis their militant neighbors.
So much for your: ” If collective punishment is not an evil, what is? If killing a 4-year old and calling it “anti-terrorism” isn’t evil, what is?”
(Evil is demanding justice for only one side.)
Now, as to: “If starving and imprisoning an entire population is not evil, what is? If denying people medical care isn’t evil, what is?”
I suppose you are referring to the oft repeated lie that Israel is starving the population in Gaza. Please, show me some photos of starving Gazans: you know, the kind that we see of real starvation in parts of Africa. Or show me the list of Gazans who have starved to death, or at least cite me some figures. How many Gazans have starved to death? I don’t recall even one. (Sorry if I seem callous, but the lie about Israel intentionally starving people upsets me tremendously.) I do however recall that bakeries in Gaza were unnecessarily shut down to give the impression that Gazans had no food. Furthermore, I have read of several instances of Gazans attacking the border crossings and preventing humanitarian aid FROM ISRAEL from being delivered. I also recall attempts (presumably some successful) to smuggle in weapons or bomb-making material in food shipments: if they’re so hungry, why don’t the Gazans simply accept the food given to them instead of focusing on weaponry? Or, instead of buying motorcycles and luxury items when they invaded Egypt, why didn’t the Gazans bring back food?
Egypt? That’s right: Gaza has a border with Egypt. Why don’t you complain that Egypt is imprisoning the population? Show me some of your favorite blogs protesting Egypt’s role in the so-called siege of Gaza. Tell me all about how Gazans apply to Egypt for medical treatment….
Medical treatment. I don’t want to appear too glib here, but do you know what a hassle it is (compared to America) to get non-emergency medical treatment if you’re a regular Israeli in Jerusalem, say, with typical health insurance? Do you really expect the kind of bureaucracy that flourishes here to become miraculously efficient in the case of Gazans? Medical treatment is not denied to Gazans, it simply takes a long time sometimes – which is even more understandable when you consider the added security hoops that have to be jumped through because of Israel’s experience with “freedom fighters” who have tried, sometimes successfully, to use the purported need for medical services to murder the very doctors who treat them. Because of such factors, a few people, sadly, have died while waiting for treatment. This happens everywhere, not only where Israelis are involved.
So your rhetoric about the evil of imprisoning and starving and denying medical treatment isn’t fair or just. But it is repeated again and again – and people believe it.
I am not going to call you a self-hating Jew – at worst I think you are misguided. (Sorry if I seem patronizing: I’m being honest.) It is obvious to me that your prime motivation is one not of hate but of love, of a yearning for justice. To demand above all else that Jews or Israel must be accountable – which seems to be the position held by the majority of visitors to this blog – to demand that Jews or Israelis must be held to a different standard (or must be the only ones held to a universal standard) will never bring justice. Indeed, it is an insidious form of racism.
Richard,
51 documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis, editor Lenni Brenner.
[book review:http://www.wrmea.com/archives/Sept_2004/0409086.html%5D
=========
also:
“As late as 1941, the Zionist group LEHI, one of whose leaders, Yitzhak Shamir, was later to become a prime minister of Israel, approached the Nazis, using the name of its parent organization, the Irgun(NMO)..[The proposal stated:] ‘The establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian Pd bound by a treaty with the German Reich would be in the interests of strengthening the future German nation of power in the Near East…The NMO in Palestine offers to take an active part in the war on Germany’s side’…The Nazis rejected this proposal for an alliance because, it is reported, they considered LEHI’s military power ‘negligible.’ ” Allan Brownfield in “The Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs”, July/August 1998.
“In 1938 a thirty-one nation conference was held in Evian, France, on resettlement of the victims of Nazism. The World Zionist Organization refused to participate, fearing that resettlement of Jews in other states would reduce the number available for Palestine.” John Quigley, “Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice.”
“It was summed up in the meeting [of the Jewish Agency’s Executive on June 26, 1938] that the Zionist thing to do ‘is belittle the [Evian] Conference as far as possible and to cause it to decide nothing…We are particularly worried that it would move Jewish organizations to collect large sums of money for aid to Jewish refugees, and these collections could interfere with our collection efforts’…Ben-Gurion’s statement at the same meeting: ‘No rationalization can turn the conference from a harmful to a useful one. What can and should be done is to limit the damage as far as possible.'” Israeli author Boas Evron, “Jewish State or Israeli Nation?”
“[Ben-Gurion stated] ‘If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, but only half of them by transporting them to Palestine, I would choose the second – because we face not only the reckoning of those children, but the historical reckoning of the Jewish people.’ In the wake of the Kristallnacht pogroms, Ben-Gurion commented that ‘the human conscience’ might bring various countries to open their doors to Jewish refugees from Germany. He saw this as a threat and warned: ‘Zionism is in danger.'” Israeli historian, Tom Segev, “The Seventh Million.”
“Even David Ben-Gurion’s sympathetic biographer acknowledges that Ben-Gurion did nothing practical for rescue, devoting his energies to post-war prospects. He delegated rescue work to Yitzak Gruenbaum, who [stated]…’They will say that I am anti-Semitic, that I don’t want to save the Exile, that I don’t have a varm Yiddish hartz…Let them say what they want. I will not demand that the Jewish Agency allocate a sum of 300,000 or 100,000 pounds sterling to help European Jewry. And I think that whoever demands such things is performing an anti-Zionist act.’
“Zionists in America…took the same position. At a May 1943 meeting of the American Emergency Committee for Zionist Affairs, Nahum Goldmann argued, ‘If a drive is opened against the White Paper (the British policy of restricting Jewish immigrants to Palestine) the mass meetings of protest against the murder of European Jewry will have to be dropped. We do not have sufficient manpower for both campaigns.'” Peter Novick, “The Holocaust in American Life.”
“The Zionist movement…interfered with and hindered other organizations, Jewish and non-Jewish, whenever it imagined that their activity, political or humanitarian, was at variance with Zionist aims or in competition with them, even when these might be helpful to Jews, even when it was a question of life and death…Beit Zvi documents the Zionist leadership’s indifference to saving Jews from the Nazi menace except in cases in which the Jews could be brought to Palestine…[e.g.] the readiness of the dictator of the Dominican Republic, Rafael Trujillo, to absorb one hundred thousand refugees and the sabotaging of this idea – as well as others, like proposals to settle the Jews inAlaska and the Philippines – by the Zionist movement…
“The obtuseness of the Zionist movement toward the fate of European Jewry did not prevent it, of course, from later hurling accusations against the whole world for its indifference toward the Jewish catastrophe or from pressing material, political, and moral demands on the world because of that indifference.” Israeli author Boas Evron, “Jewish State or Israeli Nation?”
from: [link removed per comment rules]
ellen
The exploitation of AfricanAmericans in movies and how it contributed to societal oppression, as well as how it reflected society’s views, has been so well documented that I’m surprised you are even debating the point.
There surely were exceptions, but they were just that: exceptions. If you know of a movie that was not racist toward Blacks from that time period, then please name it.
Then again, what you consider racist, may not be what Black people consider racist.
It’s the same as Westerns- Indians were almost 100% of the time depicted as blood-thirsty savages with no morals, and certainly not as victims of genocide. If there were any exceptions, during the Western era, then they were just that -exceptions. So one can certainly generalize and say that Westerns demonized Native people.
ellen
About Hollywood, from what I’ve seen on the internet during the years in different hate websites, exremist American groups use “The Jews” for their own needs. for example – The KKK claims that Jews are pro-Black, produce rap records, helping Blacks during the civil rights movement etc and Black extremists like Nation of Islam claims the exact opposite, that we’re anti-Black. Get the point? “The Jews” can be used by all sorts of people, who claim opposite things.
Ellen: You wrote that Zionists “colluded” with the Nazis. That is false. What is true is that a certain far-right faction of the Zionist movement OFFERED to collaborate with the Nazis but never did so.
We can also say that the thoughts & actions of Ben Gurion were careless & heartless or even criminal regarding the saving of European Jewry. But the Holocaust era was one of the greatest crises to face the Jewish people in its entire existence. The fact that some responded in such a bizarre & wrong-headed way does not mean that there were evil or Nazi collaborators. It merely means that given the limitations of their philosophical views about Zionism and the information that they knew at the time, they responded in ways that were woefully inadequate.
I find Lenny Brenner to be a hopelessly biased & ideologically impaired resource on any issues related to Zionism. He is about as extreme an anti-Zionist as Meir Kahane was a Zionist. The same goes for Gilad Atzmon.
Yerushalimey: You are on shaky moral ground. You simply cannot claim that the morality of Israel’s actions in subjugating & terrorizing the Occupied is somehow justifiable because of the greater immorality of the Palestinians in resisting the Occupation. The grave error that those who absolve Israel of guilty & responsibility for its actions make is that they claim morality can be judged only by connecting events to each other & judging them in relative terms. The beauty & rigor of a moral system is that it judges each act on its own w/o relation to others that may or may not be related.
If we only condemned acts that were 100% morally indefensible then we would condemn almost no act as immoral. Just as you can find justifications for Israeli immorality so can Palestinian supporters find justification for Palestinian immorality. It leads to moral bankruptcy & an inability to judge collective acts of nations.
I am not a film historian nor are you. But before you make the claims you are making you should do more research in exploring the history about which you are making judgements. There were many movies, songs and books which portray African Americans in a sympathetic light (many of them written by Jews). I am certainly not saying that sympathy was the prevailing attitude. Racism was the prevailing attitude. But making sweeping generalizations often does a disservice to history, which is what you have done.
And there is absolutely no way you can claim that Jews were responsible for oppressing Blacks simply because prejudicial films were made. That is the height of unfairness. Don’t forget that one of the most racist & earliest films portraying Blacks unfavorably was Birth of a Nation by D.W. Griffith, not a member of the tribe. You have also forgotten the Hollywood Ten, Jews blacklisted because of their film work which was sympathetic to progressive social & political views including African Americans.
Richard,
What I’m complaining about and condemning is people who demand justice for only one side in any dispute.
I am not declaring that the immorality of Palestinians is greater than that of Israel; I am saying that most visitors to this blog focus only on Israel’s faults in the Middle East conflict – and that is not right if the goal of the blog is to fix the world (as opposed to fixing Israel or even fixing the Jewish people).
You laud a moral system that judges each act on its own, yet you (and Ellen) appear not to bother judging, for example, the daily rocket attacks on Israel.
In fact, when you are obliged to admit these attacks occur, you refer to them as being acts of resistance to Occupation – in other words, YOU persist in connecting the shelling to something else, to “the Occupation.” You write of “Israel’s actions in subjugating & terrorizing the Occupied” as though subjugating and terrorizing are goals in and of themselves, thus enabling you to judge Israel according to your beautiful and rigorous system, which you couldn’t have done if you’d written,”Israel’s actions in subjugating and terrorizing those who oppose it.” Perhaps you didn’t consciously plan to distinguish between Israeli and Gazan offenses, but it seems to me your phrasing does create the distinction.
Incidentally, I guess now you’re going to have to categorize me as an “Occupation denier.” (Or maybe it’s more accurate to describe me as someone who believes that Arabs are occupying parts of Israel.) Certainly, Israel is NOT occupying Gaza. Israel withdrew from there a few years ago, after ethnically cleansing the area of Jews. (Are you among those who are horrified, outraged at the prospect of Arabs being evicted even when it might serve the greater good, but nod approvingly when Jews are uprooted?) And as the Israelis withdrew, they were fired upon. With the exception of those who are convinced that Gaza is part of the Holy Land of Israel, Israelis would like nothing better than to be rid of Gaza – to not have to provide electricity to those who shell the power plant at Ashkelon; to not have supply fuel or food to people who attack the crossing points; to not have to provide medical care to… Yes, you’ve heard it all before; but you still write about Israel “subjugating and terrorizing the Occupied.” (Where, by the way, were all the protests about Gaza’s occupation by Egypt from 1948 to 1967? There were a few complaints about the dreadful conditions – conditions much worse, by the way, than what exists now – but the protests were nothing like the commotion once Israel inherited the problem. Maybe coincidence, maybe the evolution of humanity and global awareness, maybe another case of blaming Israel whenever possible. Not that I’m faulting you for the absence of concern for those almost twenty years: I know you weren’t active then)
I don’t deny that I am bent on minimizing Israel’s culpability when it is accused – and you are welcome to try to minimize the culpability of whoever you want to – especially since it’s your blog. But I repeat my observation that your tendency to continually bring charges against Israel and seldom if ever against its enemies is not the best way to achieve justice and to repair the world.
Want a slogan? “End the pre-occupation with Israel!”
@Yerushalimey:
This is untrue & I’ve pointed out to you before that the majority of commenters are critical of my view &, like you, defenders of Israeli policy.
I would appreciate yr judging Ellen’s & my views separately as they are not the same. Furthermore, you are again absolutely wrong regarding my views toward rocket attacks. Not only have I condemned them multiple times but I’ve told you & numerous other commenters who tediously make the same arguments saying that I have not done so–that I indeed have.
The are indeed acts of resistance to Occupation. That doesn’t make them legitimate acts morally. But they are resistance.
Under international law Israel IS occupying Gaza. If a state entirely controls the affairs of another through blockade then it is responsible for that state & considered its occupier. Israel controls everything that goes in & out of Gaza. It prevents Gaza from functioning as any sort of entity. It enters militarily Gazan territory at will. To say Israel isn’t occupying Gaza is to bury one’s head in the sand. Even Israeli analysts & journalist concede what you refuse to concede.
Use of the term “ethnic cleansing” to describe the Gaza withdrawal is extremist settler propaganda which is forbidden in my comment threads. Use the term again & you’re history. Those settlers were removed by an act of a democratically elected Israeli government pursuing state policy. That is NOT ethnic cleansing.
Evicting Arabs serves the interest of settlers. That does not constitute “the greater good.”
The UN says that 80% of Gazans are eating only because of UN relief supplies & you have the unmitigated gall to tell us that Gazans have it far better now than they did under Egypt? By what right do you make such an idiotic claim? What facts support it? I’d be interested to see what you can come up with short of yr own biased & unfounded judgment.
Sure, Israel still controls Gaza, but what if we wouldn’t? Without Israels supply of basic needs the Gazans would have much worse life since the Palestinian leaders don’t really seem to care about them. Israel has no interest to control Gaza anymore, I mean when the settlers left, Gazans had a chance – why didn’t they start building more schools, hospitals etc instead of building Qassam rockets? Why didn’t they tell to themselves “without any settler now we have a chance to improve our lives?”. Israel has no choice but to control Gaza because it seems no one else can or wants to do it. Also, Hamas can’t tease Israel all the time and then complain that Israel is responsing.
RS – “If a state entirely controls the affairs of another through blockade then it is responsible for that state & considered its occupier. Israel controls everything that goes in & out of Gaza. It prevents Gaza from functioning as any sort of entity. It enters militarily Gazan territory at will. To say Israel isn’t occupying Gaza is to bury one’s head in the sand. Even Israeli analysts & journalist concede what you refuse to concede.”
I don’t think I’m burying my head in the sand. I honestly don’t understand how Israel can control everything that goes in and out of Gaza if there is a Gazan border with Egypt. Surely the people who say that Israel control Gaza’s borders are burying their heads in the sand with regard to Egypt. On the other hand, if they buried their heads more thoroughly they would discover tunnels that Gazans use to smuggle in from Egypt a formidable supply of weaponry but not, as far as I’ve read, the food, fuel or medical supplies that Israel attempts to supply. The fact that many Israeli – and foreign! – journalists and analysts assert something doesn’t invalidate my opinion or my beliefs any more than the claims of opposing authorities invalidate yours.
RS – “Evicting Arabs serves the interest of settlers. That does not constitute ‘the greater good.'”
I – and millions of other people – don’t believe that the removal of Jews from Gaza was for the greater good, but it happened. Yes, evicting certain Arabs from certain places would serve the interest of certain settlers, but you didn’t answer my question (even though you felt obliged to say something). So, rather than repeat my question, I’ll just assume that you can conceive of no possible scenario in which the eviction of Arabs would be as acceptable to you as the eviction of Jews.
RS – “If a state entirely controls the affairs of another through blockade then it is responsible for that state & considered its occupier. Israel controls everything that goes in & out of Gaza. It prevents Gaza from functioning as any sort of entity. It enters militarily Gazan territory at will. To say Israel isn’t occupying Gaza is to bury one’s head in the sand. Even Israeli analysts & journalist concede what you refuse to concede.”
I don’t think I’m burying my head in the sand. I honestly don’t understand how Israel can control everything that goes in and out of Gaza if there is a Gazan border with Egypt. Surely the people who say that Israel controls Gaza’s borders are burying their heads in the sand with regard to Egypt. On the other hand, if they buried their heads more thoroughly they might discover tunnels through which Gazans smuggle in from Egypt a formidable supply of weaponry but not, as far as I’ve read, the food, fuel or medical supplies that Israel attempts to supply. The fact that many Israeli – and foreign! – journalists and analysts assert something doesn’t invalidate my opinion or my beliefs any more than the claims of opposing authorities invalidate yours.
RS – “Evicting Arabs serves the interest of settlers. That does not constitute ‘the greater good.'”
I – and millions of other people – don’t believe that the removal of Jews from Gaza was for the greater good, but it happened. Yes, evicting certain Arabs from certain places would serve the interest of certain settlers, but you didn’t answer my question (even though you felt obliged to say something). So, rather than repeat my question, I’ll just assume that you can conceive of no possible scenario in which the eviction of Arabs would be as acceptable to you as the eviction of Jews – which is your prerogative; or that you do in fact agree that it may be appropriate to evict Arabs, but you refuse to admit it for some reason which I cannot imagine, which is also your prerogative.
RS – “The UN says that 80% of Gazans are eating only because of UN relief supplies & you have the unmitigated gall to tell us that Gazans have it far better now than they did under Egypt? By what right do you make such an idiotic claim? What facts support it? I’d be interested to see what you can come up with short of yr own biased & unfounded judgment.”
Let me tell you about the very first time the question of the relative difference between life under Egyptian and under Israeli rule ever even occurred to me. A few years ago in the Jonathan Edwards church in Northampton, Massachusetts I listened to someone read a moving poem written by a resident of a refugee camp in Gaza. I remember mention of the sound of soldiers’ boots; the poet conjured up the sense of uncertainty, of having no sense of privacy, of feeling hopeless, impotent, vulnerable. I was quite upset: my image of Israel as the good guy was beginning to waver. (I do try to keep an open mind, you see.) My illusions were being shattered… In the discussion following the reading it was pointed out that the poem was written long before 1967. That was what was in my head when I made my assertion about conditions under Egyptian rule being dreadful: the plight of the persona in the poem.
Of course I don’t expect you to be swayed by my sentimental recollections – especially since you seem ready to assume I’m the kind of person who has biased judgment and who makes idiotic claims. Making my task of backing up my claim was made quite difficult because I was aware that I could not cite ources that you might dismiss as biased. So the first evidence I submit is from a study of PUBLIC UTILITIES IN THE WEST BANK AND GAZA STRIP prepared by Dr. Sameer A. Abu-Eisheh, UN Conference on Trade and Develoment consultant, 21 October 1994.
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/85255e950050831085255e95004fa9c3/371db8e567f212b6802563fe00620111!OpenDocument
(The study discusses water, electricity, sewage, refuse collection, slaughterhouses…
I don’t do this kind of thing for a living, so I apologize for the lack of elegance in my excerpting. I’ll quote a few paragraphs about electricity and water. I gained the impression from skimming this long, impersonal report that things have improved since the Israelis took over. I guess you can check the original and see for yourself.)
“Water utilities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip before 1967 were limited to some municipalities, which in most cases were only partially served. Few villages had tapped water supply before 1967…..
“Groundwater is the main water resource in the Gaza Strip…. In 1967 the number of groundwater wells for all uses was about 1,000, the vast majority of which were agricultural wells. Only 14 wells supplied the urban areas in the Gaza Strip for domestic use…. No data are available regarding water demand for Gaza Strip or for individual urban and rural areas.
“Until 1967, the city of Gaza was supplied with water through 11 wells with a capacity of 8,000 to 9,000 m3/day…. The wells were mostly drilled manually. Two water reservoirs were in operation with a capacity of 2,500 m3. Water was pumped to the reservoirs using diesel-motor driven pumps….
“The number of wells has increased to 16 in 1990 with a total capacity of 45,000 m3/day. Of these, 31,500 m3/day were used for domestic and 13,500 m3/day for industrial purposes. The number of subscribers increased to 35,000 including those of Al-Shati’ refugee camp. Old wells have been redrilled and most wells have been equipped with electric pumps operating 22 hours daily….
“Electricity reached Gaza Strip in 1935…..In 1948, owing to the war, electricity links with Israel were disconnected. Private companies began generating electricity after the purchase and operation of the first unit which had a total nominal capacity of 80 kilowatts. The private Gaza Electric Company founded in 1950 administered the electricity project and purchased a number of extra generating units. .
“By 1967, these units were generating a total of around 1,000 kilowatts. Extra generating units were imported and utilized. Other large communities such as Deir Al-Balah, Rafah, Khan Yunis and Jabalia had separate generating units. Before 1967, each of these communities was supplied by a single generator of around 300 kilowatts. Less than 10 per cent of the total number of households had some kind of electricity services. All the electricity generated by these municipalities was for domestic use and street lighting purposes. Industrial projects generated their own required electricity using diesel units.
“…..After the 1967 war, the municipalities of the Gaza Strip were linked with the national Israeli grid, owing to the inability of the old generators to produce the required electric power. The municipalities were neither allowed nor able to import the required spare parts or new generating units. In Gaza city just before occupation, there were three old units supplying a total of 850 kilowatts. Now, the total annual electricity consumption for the whole Gaza Strip is estimated at 220 million kilowatt hours.”
The second document I offer is HEALTH CONDITIONS AND SERVICES IN THE WEST BANK AND GAZA STRIP, a study prepared by Dr. Rita Giacaman, UNCTAD consultant, dated 28 September, 1994. http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/85255e950050831085255e95004fa9c3/0566e391072a3a4d8525621b00754aca!OpenDocument
She seems to say that there was very little modern health care before Israel took over.
“Modern medical services became accessible to refugees and to rural areas only as of the late 1950s, when the Jordanian and Egyptian service infrastructures, notably in health and education, reached the countryside in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, respectively. But as in Jordan and Egypt, these services were rudimentary, restricted largely to the biomedical and curative variety. However, the population continued to rely on the traditional medical system as well. Therefore, by 1967 most Palestinian communities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip exhibited poor health status, characterized by relatively high infant mortality rates and malnutrition among children. The population lacked many basic medical services with uneven access to services between regions. While the Jordanian and Egyptian Governments did take steps to build a network of clinics in the areas, those which did exist could only provide limited services unable to reach many of those in need, necessitating the continued use of traditional healers and practitioners….
“In 1967, approximately 1.3 million Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza Strip came under Israeli military rule. Since then, the conditions of occupation began to impose deeply rooted changes on every aspect of life in the occupied Palestinian territory, including health status and health services.
“During the first two decades of Israeli rule, the policy and regulatory environment in the occupied territory was transformed, with significant effects on the health status of the population. The first 10 years of military rule carried with them a slowly rising consciousness among Palestinians of these changes and what they implied. The medical and allied health establishment that had been part of the Jordanian and Egyptian medical care systems found themselves outside the system of Israeli military rule which became the new purveyor of medical care.”
There was a trade-off:
“Since 1967, Palestinian society in the West Bank and Gaza Strip has experienced significant social transformations concomitant with changes in the general political and economic context. Of importance in terms of its impact on health status has been changing patterns of employment, from agricultural work and some wage work before 1968 to wage work in Israel and the West Bank as well as abroad, mostly in the Arab countries. Since 1967, individual and family incomes rose, but at the cost of systemic impoverishment. A move away from agriculture, coupled with improved incomes, meant a rise in the standard of living and a move towards ‘commercialization’ in general. At the same time, educational levels also rose.”
SO PERHAPS THERE CAN BE NO DEFINITIVE ANSWER AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THINGS ARE BETTER NOW! Is it better to be a poor independent farmer or the (sometimes unemployed) worker in some other commercial enterprise? But she does remark that there has been progress in education. This is borne out by the report submitted to the UN by the Acting Permanent Representative of Israel on July 2, 1986. http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/eed216406b50bf6485256ce10072f637/a77dab273134269485256bc0004e1021!OpenDocument
“Since 1967, the school system in the administered territories has experienced unprecedented growth. While the population in these areas increased by about 28 per cent in the years from 1967 to 1986, the total number of pupils receiving schooling in governmental, UNRWA, and private educational networks during the same period has increased by 105 per cent. Similarly, the number of classes run solely by the Government has increased by over 100 per cent.
“This remarkable growth is due mainly to the development in the governmental education network during the years of Israel’s administration…In the Gaza District during [1967-1986], the number of pupils increased by over 120 per cent and the number of classes by over 200 per cent.
“The significant growth in the number of those attending school since 1967 also reflects a remarkable decline in the total rate of illiteracy. In 1970, the percentage of those with zero years of schooling was…of the total population aged 14 and over…51.1 per cent in the Gaza District. Since 1985, the illiteracy rate has dropped to…26.5 [per cent]in the Gaza District.
So, Richard, I’ve attempted, by offering some data (regrettably not really up-to-date and much too long, but that’s all I have time for – and I doubt that anyone would really want to read more if I knocked myself out searching), about the Health, Education and Welfare of the Gazans to legitimate my assertion that things are better now, under the Israelis, than they were under the Egyptians. In all honesty I must conclude that there can be no indisputable proof either way – but I feel my claim doesn’t deserve to be described as idiotic or without merit. Furthermore, Gaza has received billions of dollars of aid since 1967, far more than it received while under Egyptian rule – but I discount this funding in my response, because it didn’t come out of Israel’s budget, and I was, after all, trying to argue in favor of Israel’s treatment of its inconvenient wards.
Ziman’s comments that the Obama movement will destory us reminds me of Jon Stewart’s question to Obama as to whether he intended to enslave the white race. I guess the difference is that Stewart knew it was a joke.
I am stunned that instead of attacking anti-semitimism, you would merely brush it aside as “histrionics” and dismiss her experience simply because she is a Clinton supporter. Shame on you!
Rev. Lee later “apologized for the misunderstanding” but did not retract his words. (google it)
It seems this incident did occur, and you stand there bash this fantastic philanthropist instead of attacking the anti-semite.
shame on you.
@Joe Yohka: Isn’t “stunned” a tad melodramatic? To any reasonable person reading Daphna Ziman’s over the top scenery chewing writing it’s clear that her pt of view is not reliable. And it’s not because she’s a Clinton supporter. It’s because she’s an Obama hater. Those are 2 diff. things which I don’t suppose you’d understand.
And let’s lv. “shame” out of it shall we? Those who have a weak hand & weak argument resort to “shame calling.” If you had evidence or a strong hand you’d argue the merits of the case.
“It seems this incident did occur…” Oh really, were you there? Do you have a video or audio recording? Do you know anyone who does? So how can you know that it happened as Ziman says it did? Provide us w. evidence then yr perspective will have credibility. Till then, zip, nada, zilch.