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	<title>Comments on: Israeli Jew, Woman, Want to Pray at the Kotel?  Go to Jail.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/23/israeli-jew-woman-want-to-pray-at-the-kotel-go-to-jail/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/23/israeli-jew-woman-want-to-pray-at-the-kotel-go-to-jail/</link>
	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
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		<title>By: William Smart</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/23/israeli-jew-woman-want-to-pray-at-the-kotel-go-to-jail/comment-page-1/#comment-117484</link>
		<dc:creator>William Smart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9193#comment-117484</guid>
		<description>Lets remind ourselves that Israel has no rights to the Wailing Wall, which belongs to the Muslim authorities. And the wall cannot possibly be the remains of the first Temple anyway, because there wasn&#039;t one. 

Unless Israel blows up us (and the wall) then the Jews will go back to being a peaceful minority, only rarely interfered with. Whether the owners of the wall will forgive them for all the misery Israel has inflicted is, of course, another matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets remind ourselves that Israel has no rights to the Wailing Wall, which belongs to the Muslim authorities. And the wall cannot possibly be the remains of the first Temple anyway, because there wasn&#8217;t one. </p>
<p>Unless Israel blows up us (and the wall) then the Jews will go back to being a peaceful minority, only rarely interfered with. Whether the owners of the wall will forgive them for all the misery Israel has inflicted is, of course, another matter.</p>
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		<title>By: William Smart</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/23/israeli-jew-woman-want-to-pray-at-the-kotel-go-to-jail/comment-page-1/#comment-117483</link>
		<dc:creator>William Smart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9193#comment-117483</guid>
		<description>I think I can guess the answer! Are there better references for these things? If there was anyone willing to host photographs of the relevant pages, with translations, to go into Wikipedia Or is that a quick way to be really attacked as antisemitic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I can guess the answer! Are there better references for these things? If there was anyone willing to host photographs of the relevant pages, with translations, to go into Wikipedia Or is that a quick way to be really attacked as antisemitic?</p>
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		<title>By: DICKERSON3870</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/23/israeli-jew-woman-want-to-pray-at-the-kotel-go-to-jail/comment-page-1/#comment-116672</link>
		<dc:creator>DICKERSON3870</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 05:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9193#comment-116672</guid>
		<description>RE: Note the rabbi’s introduction of Occupation terminology into his portrayal of the event: “It is an act of provocation that seeks to turn the Western Wall into disputed territory...&quot;

ALSO: provocation = &quot;incitement&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: Note the rabbi’s introduction of Occupation terminology into his portrayal of the event: “It is an act of provocation that seeks to turn the Western Wall into disputed territory&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>ALSO: provocation = &#8220;incitement&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/23/israeli-jew-woman-want-to-pray-at-the-kotel-go-to-jail/comment-page-1/#comment-116647</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9193#comment-116647</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Her actions were a political stunt aimed at provocation&lt;/blockquote&gt;
No, actually prayer is not political.  It is spiritual.  But when someone stops you from praying THEY make it a political issue &amp; remove it from the realm of religion &amp; spirituality.  It wasn&#039;t Nofrat Frenkel who introduced the police into the situation. It was the Orthodox religious mafia that did that.

&lt;blockquote&gt;This wasn’t some random Jewish woman seeking to pray at the Kotel &lt;/blockquote&gt;
You&#039;re half right.  She wasn&#039;t a random Jewish woman (interesting phrasing as if all Jewish women were interchangeable), but rather a brave, courageous woman willing to brave jail and arrest for her religious convictions.  And you&#039;re wrong because she was in fact praying at the Kotel.  Prayer should not be political.  It should be religious.  And women should be entitled to pray in the same way Jewish men have for centuries.  If Orthodox rabbis want to maintain there customs they may do so--as long as they allow those Jews whose practice constitutes the vast majority of the rest of the Jews in the world to do so according to their own conscience.  There is plenty of space at the Kotel to allow diff. groups to daven according to their own dictates.  But the proble is that the Orthodox want to control the space &amp; maintain their monopoly, which is quite a political act.

&lt;blockquote&gt;making a political argument against traditional Judaism&lt;/blockquote&gt;
They are making a RELIGIOUS argument against Orthodox intolerance &amp; hate of their fellow Jews who don&#039;t share their beliefs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Her actions were a political stunt aimed at provocation</p></blockquote>
<p>No, actually prayer is not political.  It is spiritual.  But when someone stops you from praying THEY make it a political issue &amp; remove it from the realm of religion &amp; spirituality.  It wasn&#8217;t Nofrat Frenkel who introduced the police into the situation. It was the Orthodox religious mafia that did that.</p>
<blockquote><p>This wasn’t some random Jewish woman seeking to pray at the Kotel </p></blockquote>
<p>You&#8217;re half right.  She wasn&#8217;t a random Jewish woman (interesting phrasing as if all Jewish women were interchangeable), but rather a brave, courageous woman willing to brave jail and arrest for her religious convictions.  And you&#8217;re wrong because she was in fact praying at the Kotel.  Prayer should not be political.  It should be religious.  And women should be entitled to pray in the same way Jewish men have for centuries.  If Orthodox rabbis want to maintain there customs they may do so&#8211;as long as they allow those Jews whose practice constitutes the vast majority of the rest of the Jews in the world to do so according to their own conscience.  There is plenty of space at the Kotel to allow diff. groups to daven according to their own dictates.  But the proble is that the Orthodox want to control the space &amp; maintain their monopoly, which is quite a political act.</p>
<blockquote><p>making a political argument against traditional Judaism</p></blockquote>
<p>They are making a RELIGIOUS argument against Orthodox intolerance &amp; hate of their fellow Jews who don&#8217;t share their beliefs.</p>
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		<title>By: caleb</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/23/israeli-jew-woman-want-to-pray-at-the-kotel-go-to-jail/comment-page-1/#comment-116635</link>
		<dc:creator>caleb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9193#comment-116635</guid>
		<description>The woman in question was part of a political group (Women of the Wall). Her actions were a political stunt aimed at provocation and were an attempt to elicit a response to garner public attention.

This wasn&#039;t some random Jewish woman seeking to pray at the Kotel according to her religious convictions.  

This group and its members are concerned with making a political argument against traditional Judaism rather than sincere prayer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The woman in question was part of a political group (Women of the Wall). Her actions were a political stunt aimed at provocation and were an attempt to elicit a response to garner public attention.</p>
<p>This wasn&#8217;t some random Jewish woman seeking to pray at the Kotel according to her religious convictions.  </p>
<p>This group and its members are concerned with making a political argument against traditional Judaism rather than sincere prayer.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/23/israeli-jew-woman-want-to-pray-at-the-kotel-go-to-jail/comment-page-1/#comment-116581</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9193#comment-116581</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s it, you&#039;re toast.  Primary violation of comment rules.  You&#039;ve been warned.  You&#039;re done.  Now go and cry about big bad Richard and how nasty he was to you because you called him an anti-Semite.  But whatever you do don&#039;t you dare forget to add that I don&#039;t let anyone call me an anti-Semite.  Not you, not anyone.  In the same way, I don&#039;t let anyone call me names from a left-wing perspective.  And also add while you&#039;re at it that I accused you of the worst form of motzi shem ra.  I dare you to include that in yr diatribes against me.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t see how I’m going to find the time to write the book&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Come, come.  It will be such a loss to human knowledge.  Are you sure we can&#039;t persuade you otherwise?  Take up a collection perhaps to support you while you&#039;re on yr fearless trip to expand the understanding of anti-Semitism.  Just remember to spell my name right and give a link to my blog.

&lt;blockquote&gt;you are a foulmouthed fanatic&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Poor boy.  I didn&#039;t know I hurt your feelings and without even any 4 ltr words!  A bit thin skinned, are we?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s it, you&#8217;re toast.  Primary violation of comment rules.  You&#8217;ve been warned.  You&#8217;re done.  Now go and cry about big bad Richard and how nasty he was to you because you called him an anti-Semite.  But whatever you do don&#8217;t you dare forget to add that I don&#8217;t let anyone call me an anti-Semite.  Not you, not anyone.  In the same way, I don&#8217;t let anyone call me names from a left-wing perspective.  And also add while you&#8217;re at it that I accused you of the worst form of motzi shem ra.  I dare you to include that in yr diatribes against me.</p>
<blockquote><p>I don’t see how I’m going to find the time to write the book</p></blockquote>
<p>Come, come.  It will be such a loss to human knowledge.  Are you sure we can&#8217;t persuade you otherwise?  Take up a collection perhaps to support you while you&#8217;re on yr fearless trip to expand the understanding of anti-Semitism.  Just remember to spell my name right and give a link to my blog.</p>
<blockquote><p>you are a foulmouthed fanatic</p></blockquote>
<p>Poor boy.  I didn&#8217;t know I hurt your feelings and without even any 4 ltr words!  A bit thin skinned, are we?</p>
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		<title>By: yaacov lozowick</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/23/israeli-jew-woman-want-to-pray-at-the-kotel-go-to-jail/comment-page-1/#comment-116579</link>
		<dc:creator>yaacov lozowick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9193#comment-116579</guid>
		<description>Actually, Richard, I think the suggestion that you&#039;re a type of antisemite is quite reasonable. For the past few years I&#039;ve been collecting materials for a book about how to define an antisemite (there are different types of them, of course), and I could see writing a few paragraphs about you; you&#039;d be a more interesting case than some, since you&#039;re sincerely Jewish in your odd way. 

On the other hand, don&#039;t hold your breath. I don&#039;t see how I&#039;m going to find the time to write the book anytime soon, both because writing of any sort is only a small segment of what I do (I&#039;ve got a business to run, a life to live, etc), but also because in the meantime I&#039;ve found other topics that interest me more.

Whether you&#039;re an antisemite or not, you are a foulmouthed fanatic, incapable of understanding complexity, profoundly intolerant, and surrounded by readers even more distasteful than yourself. Watching you and them is interesting for the window it gives into the minds of your particular splinter of the American political scene, but after a (short) while it becomes repetitive and boring. 

So you don&#039;t need to trouble yourself with banning me. I&#039;m out of here. Goodbye.

Dr. Yaacov Lozowick
Jerusalem</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Richard, I think the suggestion that you&#8217;re a type of antisemite is quite reasonable. For the past few years I&#8217;ve been collecting materials for a book about how to define an antisemite (there are different types of them, of course), and I could see writing a few paragraphs about you; you&#8217;d be a more interesting case than some, since you&#8217;re sincerely Jewish in your odd way. </p>
<p>On the other hand, don&#8217;t hold your breath. I don&#8217;t see how I&#8217;m going to find the time to write the book anytime soon, both because writing of any sort is only a small segment of what I do (I&#8217;ve got a business to run, a life to live, etc), but also because in the meantime I&#8217;ve found other topics that interest me more.</p>
<p>Whether you&#8217;re an antisemite or not, you are a foulmouthed fanatic, incapable of understanding complexity, profoundly intolerant, and surrounded by readers even more distasteful than yourself. Watching you and them is interesting for the window it gives into the minds of your particular splinter of the American political scene, but after a (short) while it becomes repetitive and boring. </p>
<p>So you don&#8217;t need to trouble yourself with banning me. I&#8217;m out of here. Goodbye.</p>
<p>Dr. Yaacov Lozowick<br />
Jerusalem</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/23/israeli-jew-woman-want-to-pray-at-the-kotel-go-to-jail/comment-page-1/#comment-116570</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 05:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9193#comment-116570</guid>
		<description>Other than provocation &amp; attempt at fomenting religious war, what would be the pt.?  Do you just want to flex yr Jewish religious muscle for the hell of it as so many settlers do?  Or is there some real spiritual pt. to praying at this specific place as opposed to the Kotel which is only a few hundred feet away?  Keep in mind that Jews do not generally consider places as holier than ideas, individual human beings, religious doctrine &amp; religous deeds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other than provocation &amp; attempt at fomenting religious war, what would be the pt.?  Do you just want to flex yr Jewish religious muscle for the hell of it as so many settlers do?  Or is there some real spiritual pt. to praying at this specific place as opposed to the Kotel which is only a few hundred feet away?  Keep in mind that Jews do not generally consider places as holier than ideas, individual human beings, religious doctrine &amp; religous deeds.</p>
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