Also, may peace for all prevail :-)

Yes, Copts are mistreated, but again much of that is due to ignorance and if its any consolation these same people are probably the same towards other minorites,

you misunderstood what i said to Shirin, i didn’t mean indians in the current USA, i meant when it was created, European settlers settled in the USA and killed off the natives, but i don’t really want to go into a debate about that, i merely used that as an example. Shirin will know what i’m talking about…if she is in America, how can she question why Jews have a right, also if she is Muslim as her name indicates, i expect her thinking to be different to yours, as she only has to look in The Quran to see Jews do have a right to live in the Mid East, and even sovereignty.

My original post was addressed to Shirin because she was questionting why Jews have a right to a state.

I already know how liberal americans like you and Mary think, you see this conflict from a different angle to how we do, we have our religon to think of too…How can Shirin say what right do Jews have when Islamic tradition says that the Al Aqsa was built on the site Suleyman’s bait al Muqadas.

so this will be my final say on this subject, unless Shirin answers my questions , and if Richard Silverstein doesn’t mind. Sorry the thread turned into this, it wasn’t my intention., Richard

Yes of course we should stop, and find a diplomatic solution, which doesn’t include that the other has no right to the land.

Both Israeli’s (right wing) and Arab’s (extremists) deny the other has any right to any land. Clearly this is both unnacceptable.

pakistani’s are not all native, it was india first, and there was a population exchange, but that wasn’t the point, the point was conquest and right to land has always been by might, so why hold Israel to a different standard.

The I P conflict should be resolved through diplomacy either one state or two state. It’s silly to insist one or the other has no right there. The Middle east is the home of Jews and Arabs,

If a country wants to be a democracylet it, and if it wants to be a theocracy let it.

Insisting that the democracy is right for those who don’t want it is facism in itself.

Remember, Iraq was secular, yet when they got a chance to vote, all the secular including women, who were educated and liberal, voted the Islamic parties.

My guess is that you’re an atheist and don’t like religion? That is fine, but you shouldn’t be intolerant of others who do like organised religion.

Yes, Misogony and oppression is there in culture, but not religion. Most of the oppression and women low status you mean which is in Muslim countries has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with culture. Islam is only 1450 or so years young. Cultrual traditions have been there longer.

Even in atheist Europe, you get women beaters, child killers and all kinds of criminals.

The truth is there is evil in human nature, and it will manifest itself in any way it can, if not through religion then through other means.

If you’re saying religio is theproblem then why did the same problems exist in commie, and atheist societies, only they were not done in the name of religion?

We cannot go back and undo the Balfour Declaration and what came after. Many people say we can’t even go back to 1967. But can’t we stop what is continuing in 2009? In Israel/Palestine we are seeing the continuation of an occupation that should shock the conscience of all people. We are also seeing this in Iraq, Afghanistan and other places, but Palestine seems to be the fulcrum upon which all other conflicts are balanced.

Richard, I apologize for going off topic, but I felt I had to say something to the effect that the situation in Palestine is a very contemporary issue.