Comments on: Hang on, Mahmoud, Mahmoud Hang On http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/19/hang-on-mahmoud-mahmoud-hang-on/ Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music Mon, 22 Mar 2010 08:14:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Mary http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/19/hang-on-mahmoud-mahmoud-hang-on/comment-page-1/#comment-116546 Mary Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:07:54 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9155#comment-116546 I think if there is any Israeli support of Hamas, it may be done through various backdoor channels and it would be without Hamas' knowledge. The reason I suspect there may be covert support is because the existence of Hamas has actually served Israel well. The perpetual enemy supports the need for Israel's outrageous behavior both in terms of maintaining economic control over the Palestinian people, and it has supported a very lucrative security industry which includes the military and private companies specializing in surveillance. The entire status quo is fine for Israel, in fact. It supports political coalitions, the military, and their economy (much like the US and its wars). I recall the many, many instances of CIA covert actions and meddling throughout history, and I can't help but wonder if this is not something also happening in Gaza. You must admit, Israel has not taken one solid step towards peace; why should it, when it stands to lose so much? I think if there is any Israeli support of Hamas, it may be done through various backdoor channels and it would be without Hamas’ knowledge. The reason I suspect there may be covert support is because the existence of Hamas has actually served Israel well. The perpetual enemy supports the need for Israel’s outrageous behavior both in terms of maintaining economic control over the Palestinian people, and it has supported a very lucrative security industry which includes the military and private companies specializing in surveillance. The entire status quo is fine for Israel, in fact. It supports political coalitions, the military, and their economy (much like the US and its wars). I recall the many, many instances of CIA covert actions and meddling throughout history, and I can’t help but wonder if this is not something also happening in Gaza. You must admit, Israel has not taken one solid step towards peace; why should it, when it stands to lose so much?

]]> By: Shirin http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/19/hang-on-mahmoud-mahmoud-hang-on/comment-page-1/#comment-116535 Shirin Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:31:58 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9155#comment-116535 Of course Hamas is not a terrorist organization, thought it IS an organization that has used terrorism. One of the ironies of all this is that Fatah is itself no stranger to the use of terrorism, and in fact it was Fatah that was responsible for most of the rockets that were fired during last year's ill-fated ceasefire, while by the Israeli MOD's own admission, Hamas did not fire a single one until Israel so egregiously (and intentionally provocatively) broke the ceasefire, as it has historically been wont to do. I do not believe that Israel has supported Hamas (at least not since its initial nurturance in the '80's), and I am not sure that Hamas would accept such support knowing the obligations that would go along with it. Of course Hamas is not a terrorist organization, thought it IS an organization that has used terrorism. One of the ironies of all this is that Fatah is itself no stranger to the use of terrorism, and in fact it was Fatah that was responsible for most of the rockets that were fired during last year’s ill-fated ceasefire, while by the Israeli MOD’s own admission, Hamas did not fire a single one until Israel so egregiously (and intentionally provocatively) broke the ceasefire, as it has historically been wont to do.

I do not believe that Israel has supported Hamas (at least not since its initial nurturance in the ’80’s), and I am not sure that Hamas would accept such support knowing the obligations that would go along with it.

]]> By: Mary http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/19/hang-on-mahmoud-mahmoud-hang-on/comment-page-1/#comment-116483 Mary Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:48:12 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9155#comment-116483 Shirin, you're absolutely correct about Abbas, but I think he deluded himself into believing his situation was going to go on forever. When he was publicly humiliated by Obama and Netanyahu, I think he came to see that he was being used up and thrown away. I do not buy for a minute the nonsense that Hamas is a terrorist organization. I don't agree with firing rockets into civilian areas but I am also aware that Israel's acts of terrorism against the Palestinians are much greater. Unlike Fatah and the PA, Hamas has dealt honestly in all matters pertaining to cease fires and has complied with all terms and conditions, unlike the Israelis. I suspect that Israel actually has done some backdoor supporting of Hamas at least to keep the rift between them and Fatah strong. Material support in the form of money or weapons may be a part of it. It would not surprise me. Shirin, you’re absolutely correct about Abbas, but I think he deluded himself into believing his situation was going to go on forever. When he was publicly humiliated by Obama and Netanyahu, I think he came to see that he was being used up and thrown away.

I do not buy for a minute the nonsense that Hamas is a terrorist organization. I don’t agree with firing rockets into civilian areas but I am also aware that Israel’s acts of terrorism against the Palestinians are much greater. Unlike Fatah and the PA, Hamas has dealt honestly in all matters pertaining to cease fires and has complied with all terms and conditions, unlike the Israelis.

I suspect that Israel actually has done some backdoor supporting of Hamas at least to keep the rift between them and Fatah strong. Material support in the form of money or weapons may be a part of it. It would not surprise me.

]]> By: Shirin http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/19/hang-on-mahmoud-mahmoud-hang-on/comment-page-1/#comment-116482 Shirin Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:35:07 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9155#comment-116482 PS And this is exactly why so many Palestinians who are not Hamas supporters nevertheless voted for Hamas in 2006. Hamas has not walled themselves off in fancy mansions on the tops of hills off the proceeds of collaboration. Hamas has been in the trenches with the rest of the Palestinian people, providing vital services for them that no one else would, and fighting for freedom. Whether we or the Palestinians who voted for them see Hamas as always fighting in the right way, Hamas, unlike Fatah, has been seen, quite realistically, as largely incorruptible. PS And this is exactly why so many Palestinians who are not Hamas supporters nevertheless voted for Hamas in 2006. Hamas has not walled themselves off in fancy mansions on the tops of hills off the proceeds of collaboration. Hamas has been in the trenches with the rest of the Palestinian people, providing vital services for them that no one else would, and fighting for freedom. Whether we or the Palestinians who voted for them see Hamas as always fighting in the right way, Hamas, unlike Fatah, has been seen, quite realistically, as largely incorruptible.

]]> By: Shirin http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/19/hang-on-mahmoud-mahmoud-hang-on/comment-page-1/#comment-116481 Shirin Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:30:15 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9155#comment-116481 Oh, I don't think Mahmoud `Abbas was ever unaware of what was going on at all. After all, collaborating with the Israelis has payed off beautifully for him. It has brought him wealth and power, an opulent lifestyle, and a degree of freedom that most Palestinians cannot even dream about. I think he and the other collaborators have known all along exactly what was going on. The illusion that they did it all for Palestine and the people is not one they share. Oh, I don’t think Mahmoud `Abbas was ever unaware of what was going on at all. After all, collaborating with the Israelis has payed off beautifully for him. It has brought him wealth and power, an opulent lifestyle, and a degree of freedom that most Palestinians cannot even dream about. I think he and the other collaborators have known all along exactly what was going on. The illusion that they did it all for Palestine and the people is not one they share.

]]> By: Mary http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/19/hang-on-mahmoud-mahmoud-hang-on/comment-page-1/#comment-116480 Mary Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:38:04 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9155#comment-116480 He is their quisling, they have manipulated him for years, and only now has he realized it fully, I think. And most people do not understand what the Palestinian Authority actually is - it is an arm of the Israeli occupation. For this reason many Palestinians consider him a traitor who has toiled to support and advance the occupation. The US may be sad to see him go, and the Israelis (as well they should), but the Palestinian people may think differently. He is their quisling, they have manipulated him for years, and only now has he realized it fully, I think. And most people do not understand what the Palestinian Authority actually is – it is an arm of the Israeli occupation. For this reason many Palestinians consider him a traitor who has toiled to support and advance the occupation. The US may be sad to see him go, and the Israelis (as well they should), but the Palestinian people may think differently.

]]> By: Shirin http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/19/hang-on-mahmoud-mahmoud-hang-on/comment-page-1/#comment-116461 Shirin Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:00:07 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9155#comment-116461 Of course they want Mahmoud to hang on - he's their bastard. Of course they want Mahmoud to hang on – he’s their bastard.

]]> By: Shirin http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/19/hang-on-mahmoud-mahmoud-hang-on/comment-page-1/#comment-116460 Shirin Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:59:13 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=9155#comment-116460 Do you guys make this s*** up off the tops of your heads, or does someone feed it to you so you can regurgitated it at will? Do you guys make this s*** up off the tops of your heads, or does someone feed it to you so you can regurgitated it at will?

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