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	<title>Comments on: Weekly Standard&#8217;s Goldfarb Smears Cobban</title>
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	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
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		<title>By: Goldfarb, Goldstone, Bernstein, and human rights &#171; Fair Policy, Fair Discussion</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/10/22/weekly-standards-goldfarb-smears-cobban/comment-page-1/#comment-121342</link>
		<dc:creator>Goldfarb, Goldstone, Bernstein, and human rights &#171; Fair Policy, Fair Discussion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=8846#comment-121342</guid>
		<description>[...] hat-tip to Richard Silverstein, co-rabbi of our &#8220;off-broadway&#8221; bloggers&#8217; panel at J Street, next Monday [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] hat-tip to Richard Silverstein, co-rabbi of our &#8220;off-broadway&#8221; bloggers&#8217; panel at J Street, next Monday [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/10/22/weekly-standards-goldfarb-smears-cobban/comment-page-1/#comment-115499</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=8846#comment-115499</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s say I were to stipulate that this was a major incident in the 100 year history of the Arab-Israeli conflict (I don&#039;t, but let&#039;s say that I did).  Let&#039;s say that the killing of the 6 smugglers was on the same level as Deir Yassin i.e. an incident in which Israel&#039;s guilt was without question and it left a lasting impression on the Palestinian narrative for decades.  Only a fool would accept that this smuggling thing was on the same level as the Deir Yassin, but as you insist that this is a major incident, let&#039;s pretend for a minute.

I hope that you agree with me that while Deir Yassin was a monstrous crime, it does not excuse all Palestinian terrorism that came before it nor does it &quot;provoke&quot; all Palestinian terrorism that followed it.  I also hope that you would regard this incident involving the smugglers, which is infinitely more minor than Deir Yassin, similarly.  

But we are getting off topic.  All I asked was for you to not compare &quot;Hamas leaders&quot; with Israeli civilians, as you did in your blog post.  You seem reluctant to admit that it was a false comparison.  Fine.  Go ahead and write a book.  I&#039;m sure it will sell well even if it gets panned by every major newspaper and expert on the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s say I were to stipulate that this was a major incident in the 100 year history of the Arab-Israeli conflict (I don&#8217;t, but let&#8217;s say that I did).  Let&#8217;s say that the killing of the 6 smugglers was on the same level as Deir Yassin i.e. an incident in which Israel&#8217;s guilt was without question and it left a lasting impression on the Palestinian narrative for decades.  Only a fool would accept that this smuggling thing was on the same level as the Deir Yassin, but as you insist that this is a major incident, let&#8217;s pretend for a minute.</p>
<p>I hope that you agree with me that while Deir Yassin was a monstrous crime, it does not excuse all Palestinian terrorism that came before it nor does it &#8220;provoke&#8221; all Palestinian terrorism that followed it.  I also hope that you would regard this incident involving the smugglers, which is infinitely more minor than Deir Yassin, similarly.  </p>
<p>But we are getting off topic.  All I asked was for you to not compare &#8220;Hamas leaders&#8221; with Israeli civilians, as you did in your blog post.  You seem reluctant to admit that it was a false comparison.  Fine.  Go ahead and write a book.  I&#8217;m sure it will sell well even if it gets panned by every major newspaper and expert on the subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/10/22/weekly-standards-goldfarb-smears-cobban/comment-page-1/#comment-115490</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=8846#comment-115490</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;every minor indecent in which Israel did something questionable&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Interesting.  When you allege w/o proof that Hamas uses civilian shields then it&#039;s a major issue.  But when Israel actually does the same thing and there is proof of it, then it&#039;s a &quot;minor incident.&quot;  YOu sound about as fair &amp; balanced as FoxNews.

The Israeli bombing of the smuggling tunnel killing 6 smugglers provoked Palestinian militant retaliation in the form of rocket fire against Israel.  This in turn led to Hamas refusing to renew the ceasefire.  Haaretz reports at the time said that the tunnel attack was actually a ploy by Israel to get Hamas to retaliate, destroy the ceasefire so Israel could take the action it eventually ended up taking: invading Gaza.  The tunnel attack &amp; subsequent retaliation is not a &quot;claim.&quot;  It is a fact.  An inconvenient one for you, but a fact nevertheless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>every minor indecent in which Israel did something questionable</p></blockquote>
<p>Interesting.  When you allege w/o proof that Hamas uses civilian shields then it&#8217;s a major issue.  But when Israel actually does the same thing and there is proof of it, then it&#8217;s a &#8220;minor incident.&#8221;  YOu sound about as fair &amp; balanced as FoxNews.</p>
<p>The Israeli bombing of the smuggling tunnel killing 6 smugglers provoked Palestinian militant retaliation in the form of rocket fire against Israel.  This in turn led to Hamas refusing to renew the ceasefire.  Haaretz reports at the time said that the tunnel attack was actually a ploy by Israel to get Hamas to retaliate, destroy the ceasefire so Israel could take the action it eventually ended up taking: invading Gaza.  The tunnel attack &amp; subsequent retaliation is not a &#8220;claim.&#8221;  It is a fact.  An inconvenient one for you, but a fact nevertheless.</p>
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		<title>By: Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/10/22/weekly-standards-goldfarb-smears-cobban/comment-page-1/#comment-115463</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=8846#comment-115463</guid>
		<description>Firstly, I am not familiar with the specific indecent you are speaking about.  For all I know, you might be right.  I&#039;m not interested in listing a blow by blow account of every minor indecent in which Israel did something questionable vs. when Hamas did something explicitly to harm civilians (either Israeli or Palestinian).  

Secondly, what you said before &quot;that Israel has only provoked terror when it has had every opportunity to prevent it.&quot; I criticized you for blaming the victim.  You answered my criticism by telling me of a minor indecent involving the bombing of a tunnel used for smuggling, as if to say that this indecent &quot;provoked&quot; all the terrorism that followed.  Do the comment rules of this site say as much about credible arguments as it does about credible claims?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly, I am not familiar with the specific indecent you are speaking about.  For all I know, you might be right.  I&#8217;m not interested in listing a blow by blow account of every minor indecent in which Israel did something questionable vs. when Hamas did something explicitly to harm civilians (either Israeli or Palestinian).  </p>
<p>Secondly, what you said before &#8220;that Israel has only provoked terror when it has had every opportunity to prevent it.&#8221; I criticized you for blaming the victim.  You answered my criticism by telling me of a minor indecent involving the bombing of a tunnel used for smuggling, as if to say that this indecent &#8220;provoked&#8221; all the terrorism that followed.  Do the comment rules of this site say as much about credible arguments as it does about credible claims?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/10/22/weekly-standards-goldfarb-smears-cobban/comment-page-1/#comment-115450</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 06:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=8846#comment-115450</guid>
		<description>Israel CLAIMED it had killed weapons smugglers w/o providing a whit of proof that this was the case.  Do you have proof that the tunnels they bombed &amp; those killed were smuggling weapons and not the myriad other supplies which must be smuggled into the enclave to overcome the Israeli siege?  The comment rules of this site insist that if you make a claim like the one you&#039;re making that you accompany it w. proof or it will not be considered credible.  So there you have it.  More empty claims.  If Israel had specific proof that these were weapons smugglers they would&#039;ve offered it, yet they didn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel CLAIMED it had killed weapons smugglers w/o providing a whit of proof that this was the case.  Do you have proof that the tunnels they bombed &amp; those killed were smuggling weapons and not the myriad other supplies which must be smuggled into the enclave to overcome the Israeli siege?  The comment rules of this site insist that if you make a claim like the one you&#8217;re making that you accompany it w. proof or it will not be considered credible.  So there you have it.  More empty claims.  If Israel had specific proof that these were weapons smugglers they would&#8217;ve offered it, yet they didn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/10/22/weekly-standards-goldfarb-smears-cobban/comment-page-1/#comment-115406</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 06:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=8846#comment-115406</guid>
		<description>One thing I&#039;m glad we do agree on is that blaming the victim is &quot;pathetic&quot; both in cases of rape and in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  Your readers will have to judge whether Hamas terrorists ought to be considered victims when they are killed while in a tunnel used to smuggle weapons for the purpose of murdering Israeli civilians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing I&#8217;m glad we do agree on is that blaming the victim is &#8220;pathetic&#8221; both in cases of rape and in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  Your readers will have to judge whether Hamas terrorists ought to be considered victims when they are killed while in a tunnel used to smuggle weapons for the purpose of murdering Israeli civilians.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/10/22/weekly-standards-goldfarb-smears-cobban/comment-page-1/#comment-115396</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=8846#comment-115396</guid>
		<description>Oh that is pathetic.  Israel had a ceasefire in Gaza which it violated by bombing a tunnel &amp; killing several Gazans in the process.  There were no rockets during that portion of the ceasefire.  After this gross violation, the rockets began &amp; Hamas notified Israel the ceasefire was over.

I have explained &amp; proven my claim to support Israel&#039;s right to defend itself &amp; I&#039;ve written this repeatedly here.  You&#039;ve expressed empty words &amp; not backed them up in any way shape or form such that one can see how those words can actually lead to real peace.  My readers will have to judge which of us is more credible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh that is pathetic.  Israel had a ceasefire in Gaza which it violated by bombing a tunnel &amp; killing several Gazans in the process.  There were no rockets during that portion of the ceasefire.  After this gross violation, the rockets began &amp; Hamas notified Israel the ceasefire was over.</p>
<p>I have explained &amp; proven my claim to support Israel&#8217;s right to defend itself &amp; I&#8217;ve written this repeatedly here.  You&#8217;ve expressed empty words &amp; not backed them up in any way shape or form such that one can see how those words can actually lead to real peace.  My readers will have to judge which of us is more credible.</p>
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		<title>By: Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/10/22/weekly-standards-goldfarb-smears-cobban/comment-page-1/#comment-115394</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 16:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=8846#comment-115394</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The problem is that Israel has only provoked terror when it has had every opportunity to prevent it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I suppose the sorority girl in the sexy outfit had it coming to her when she was raped at the party.  She &quot;had every opportunity&quot; not to come to the party.  Furthermore, she didn&#039;t have to &quot;provoke&quot; the rapist by wearing a sexy outfit.  

I&#039;m sorry I haven&#039;t convinced you that I am in favor of peace and not using empty words.  If it is any consolation, I&#039;m unconvinced that you support Israel&#039;s right to defend itself and not using empty words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The problem is that Israel has only provoked terror when it has had every opportunity to prevent it.</p></blockquote>
<p>I suppose the sorority girl in the sexy outfit had it coming to her when she was raped at the party.  She &#8220;had every opportunity&#8221; not to come to the party.  Furthermore, she didn&#8217;t have to &#8220;provoke&#8221; the rapist by wearing a sexy outfit.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry I haven&#8217;t convinced you that I am in favor of peace and not using empty words.  If it is any consolation, I&#8217;m unconvinced that you support Israel&#8217;s right to defend itself and not using empty words.</p>
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