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	<title>Comments on: U.S. Government: Profile in Spinelessness in Defense of U.S. Citizens Imprisoned by Israel</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/07/06/u-s-government-profile-in-spinelessness-in-defense-of-u-s-citizens-imprisoned-by-israel/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/07/06/u-s-government-profile-in-spinelessness-in-defense-of-u-s-citizens-imprisoned-by-israel/</link>
	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/07/06/u-s-government-profile-in-spinelessness-in-defense-of-u-s-citizens-imprisoned-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111471</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=7482#comment-111471</guid>
		<description>&quot;I get the feeling that your real concern is the Jewish demographic majority of Israel. &quot;

You speculate a great deal, innaccurately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I get the feeling that your real concern is the Jewish demographic majority of Israel. &#8221;</p>
<p>You speculate a great deal, innaccurately.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/07/06/u-s-government-profile-in-spinelessness-in-defense-of-u-s-citizens-imprisoned-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111470</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=7482#comment-111470</guid>
		<description>So, you disagree with my &quot;chutzpah&quot;?

What about content? Its only an opinion. 

Do you differ with the opinion? Why, why not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, you disagree with my &#8220;chutzpah&#8221;?</p>
<p>What about content? Its only an opinion. </p>
<p>Do you differ with the opinion? Why, why not?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/07/06/u-s-government-profile-in-spinelessness-in-defense-of-u-s-citizens-imprisoned-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111448</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 20:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=7482#comment-111448</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t believe that the right of return, now 60 years (3 generations) past 1948 is valid any longer.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That&#039;s what I &quot;like&quot; about Witty.  You&#039;re perfectly willing to decide on behalf of the Palestinians what rights of theirs are valid &amp; what aren&#039;t.  It&#039;s called chutzpah where I come from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I don’t believe that the right of return, now 60 years (3 generations) past 1948 is valid any longer.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s what I &#8220;like&#8221; about Witty.  You&#8217;re perfectly willing to decide on behalf of the Palestinians what rights of theirs are valid &amp; what aren&#8217;t.  It&#8217;s called chutzpah where I come from.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: n</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/07/06/u-s-government-profile-in-spinelessness-in-defense-of-u-s-citizens-imprisoned-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111441</link>
		<dc:creator>n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=7482#comment-111441</guid>
		<description>Compensation for seized land is really easy for zionists to support.   Why?  Because, as I understand most of the proposals compensation will be paid by the international community.  Who wouldn&#039;t support giving other peoples money as compensation for wrongs they&#039;ve caused?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Compensation for seized land is really easy for zionists to support.   Why?  Because, as I understand most of the proposals compensation will be paid by the international community.  Who wouldn&#8217;t support giving other peoples money as compensation for wrongs they&#8217;ve caused?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: n</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/07/06/u-s-government-profile-in-spinelessness-in-defense-of-u-s-citizens-imprisoned-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111440</link>
		<dc:creator>n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=7482#comment-111440</guid>
		<description>We all recognize that opinions are just opinions, the point of debate is to challenge what you believe and modify it as you learn new things.  

Witty writes &quot;Maybe that will change if Israelis and Palestinians identify more as human beings than as national identity.&quot;

But the problem isn&#039;t the Israeli national identity.  The problem is the Jewish national identity.  Nothing in a Palestinian identity precludes Jews from embracing it and nothing in an Israeli (well a theoritical non zionist one of a state of all it&#039;s people) precludes Palestinians from embracing it.  

I would hazard a guess that the problem of violence in Israel due to a growing minority population comes more from the majority than the minority.  You know, the one with a history of ethnic cleansing.  And due to the fact that refugees lose the right of return in 20 years if it would inconvenience the cleansers, the strategy would seem pretty attractive.

On the political side, the problem with a growing non jewish minority in Israel is Zionist.  How do you keep them out of government?  Yes, you can raise the vote thresholds for entry into the knesset, but that only goes so far.  You already have the problem of trying to establish a majority in the Knesset when 10 of the seats can never  be brought into the government.  Can you imagine the power of the fringe Jewish parties if that grew to 20 or god forbid 30 seats?  Thank god for the high orthodox birth rate.

I get the feeling that your real concern is the Jewish demographic majority of Israel.  It&#039;s easier to couch this in terms of the possible, but you don&#039;t even believe that Palestinians have a human right, which sadly must be sacrificed for what is possible, to return to Israel, they have no right.


You wonder why people don&#039;t seem to consider you their ally?  Probably not because of BDS, probably more because you just don&#039;t share our values.  Because most of us probably don&#039;t think that your recommendations for the movement are effective.  Probably because you preach dialogue but haven&#039;t asked me a single question.  Do you ever ask people serious questions, or do you just speak your own opinions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We all recognize that opinions are just opinions, the point of debate is to challenge what you believe and modify it as you learn new things.  </p>
<p>Witty writes &#8220;Maybe that will change if Israelis and Palestinians identify more as human beings than as national identity.&#8221;</p>
<p>But the problem isn&#8217;t the Israeli national identity.  The problem is the Jewish national identity.  Nothing in a Palestinian identity precludes Jews from embracing it and nothing in an Israeli (well a theoritical non zionist one of a state of all it&#8217;s people) precludes Palestinians from embracing it.  </p>
<p>I would hazard a guess that the problem of violence in Israel due to a growing minority population comes more from the majority than the minority.  You know, the one with a history of ethnic cleansing.  And due to the fact that refugees lose the right of return in 20 years if it would inconvenience the cleansers, the strategy would seem pretty attractive.</p>
<p>On the political side, the problem with a growing non jewish minority in Israel is Zionist.  How do you keep them out of government?  Yes, you can raise the vote thresholds for entry into the knesset, but that only goes so far.  You already have the problem of trying to establish a majority in the Knesset when 10 of the seats can never  be brought into the government.  Can you imagine the power of the fringe Jewish parties if that grew to 20 or god forbid 30 seats?  Thank god for the high orthodox birth rate.</p>
<p>I get the feeling that your real concern is the Jewish demographic majority of Israel.  It&#8217;s easier to couch this in terms of the possible, but you don&#8217;t even believe that Palestinians have a human right, which sadly must be sacrificed for what is possible, to return to Israel, they have no right.</p>
<p>You wonder why people don&#8217;t seem to consider you their ally?  Probably not because of BDS, probably more because you just don&#8217;t share our values.  Because most of us probably don&#8217;t think that your recommendations for the movement are effective.  Probably because you preach dialogue but haven&#8217;t asked me a single question.  Do you ever ask people serious questions, or do you just speak your own opinions?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: n</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/07/06/u-s-government-profile-in-spinelessness-in-defense-of-u-s-citizens-imprisoned-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111439</link>
		<dc:creator>n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=7482#comment-111439</guid>
		<description>Witty writes &quot;The only conditions that I would consider a right of return to Israel perse would be in specific cases, where the overwhelming balance of title questions on specific land claims overarch the relative rights of current residency.&quot;

The overwhelming  balance of title questions?  I&#039;m never sure I understand anything you say.  The refugees aren&#039;t demanding to return to their particular home, they are demanding to return to their homeland.  As I understand it, most of the land which was confiscated from them is under the jurisdiction of the ILA and the JNF and is then leased out to Israeli Jews on 99 year leases.  From an ownership of land perspective there is no problem.  When they lease is over, the land is returned to it&#039;s rightful owners.  

I&#039;m not sure why Palestinian human rights are reduced to a question of property.  Well, outside of the fact that you think human rights have a statute of limitations of 20 years.  Is that only the right of return or do othe human rights have a 20 year statute of limitations?  Convienant that that is when Israel gained a bargaining chip isn&#039;t it?  But for some Palestinians, their rights aren&#039;t even a question of property.  They also depend on the how much the world has changed relative to their old mode of life.  The Negev isn&#039;t that crowded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Witty writes &#8220;The only conditions that I would consider a right of return to Israel perse would be in specific cases, where the overwhelming balance of title questions on specific land claims overarch the relative rights of current residency.&#8221;</p>
<p>The overwhelming  balance of title questions?  I&#8217;m never sure I understand anything you say.  The refugees aren&#8217;t demanding to return to their particular home, they are demanding to return to their homeland.  As I understand it, most of the land which was confiscated from them is under the jurisdiction of the ILA and the JNF and is then leased out to Israeli Jews on 99 year leases.  From an ownership of land perspective there is no problem.  When they lease is over, the land is returned to it&#8217;s rightful owners.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure why Palestinian human rights are reduced to a question of property.  Well, outside of the fact that you think human rights have a statute of limitations of 20 years.  Is that only the right of return or do othe human rights have a 20 year statute of limitations?  Convienant that that is when Israel gained a bargaining chip isn&#8217;t it?  But for some Palestinians, their rights aren&#8217;t even a question of property.  They also depend on the how much the world has changed relative to their old mode of life.  The Negev isn&#8217;t that crowded.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/07/06/u-s-government-profile-in-spinelessness-in-defense-of-u-s-citizens-imprisoned-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111432</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 10:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=7482#comment-111432</guid>
		<description>Of course, my opinions are just opinions. They are statements of what I observe to be optimizing democracy.

A single-state to my reasoning, results currently in more suppression than a fair two-state solution.

Maybe that will change if Israelis and Palestinians identify more as human beings than as national identity.

That the US and Canada don&#039;t merge (both humanist and VERY similar culturally), indicates that the national definition is important to people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, my opinions are just opinions. They are statements of what I observe to be optimizing democracy.</p>
<p>A single-state to my reasoning, results currently in more suppression than a fair two-state solution.</p>
<p>Maybe that will change if Israelis and Palestinians identify more as human beings than as national identity.</p>
<p>That the US and Canada don&#8217;t merge (both humanist and VERY similar culturally), indicates that the national definition is important to people.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/07/06/u-s-government-profile-in-spinelessness-in-defense-of-u-s-citizens-imprisoned-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-111431</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 10:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=7482#comment-111431</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t believe that the right of return, now 60 years (3 generations) past 1948 is valid any longer. It would have been in 1968, but not now.

The only conditions that I would consider a right of return to Israel perse would be in specific cases, where the overwhelming balance of title questions on specific land claims overarch the relative rights of current residency. 

I do believe that compensation for all title claims should occur, resulting from all expropriations.

All nomadic peoples are in a difficult state, now that the world is very crowded. There isn&#039;t much room for nomadicism in the modern world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe that the right of return, now 60 years (3 generations) past 1948 is valid any longer. It would have been in 1968, but not now.</p>
<p>The only conditions that I would consider a right of return to Israel perse would be in specific cases, where the overwhelming balance of title questions on specific land claims overarch the relative rights of current residency. </p>
<p>I do believe that compensation for all title claims should occur, resulting from all expropriations.</p>
<p>All nomadic peoples are in a difficult state, now that the world is very crowded. There isn&#8217;t much room for nomadicism in the modern world.</p>
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