“What’s more, during his reign, Peretz has also done lasting damage to the cause of American liberalism. By turning TNR into a kind of ideological police dog, Peretz enjoyed the ability — at least for a while — to play a key role in defining the borders of “responsible” liberal discourse, thereby tarring anyone who disagreed as irresponsible or untrustworthy. But he did so on the basis of a politics simultaneously so narrow and idiosyncratic — in thrall almost entirely to an Israel-centric neoconservatism — that it’s difficult to understand how the magazine’s politics might be considered liberal anymore. Ironically Peretz’s stance ultimately turned out to be not only out of step with most liberals but also most American Jews, who consistently cling to views far more dovish, both on Israel and on U.S. foreign policy generally, than those espoused in TNR.”

These arguments have to be demolished point for point- and effectively, in a way that gets through. Number one is to destroy ownership of what “pro-Israel” means- which is what I hope Obama can help do ( at the very least).

Most annoying “pro-Israel” folks so willingly take their “talking points”. They believe them. They go unopposed in their own circles. Letting off steam here and name-calling is useless… other than feeling commiseration.

You have to get out there and battle each point: What do you mean “all we do is give?” What has been given that has not been taken back and more stolen?

“We won, they lost”

“There is a price to be paid by the Palestinians for their suicidal politics over the decades.” (ie they have to pay for their resistance as we try to destroy them. Anything goes now b/c we gave them “generous offer” & it was refused)

Regarding the comments on the Peretz piece (TNR), the most dangerous and persuasive are the ones who know history, some international law, can reason in an authoritative way while nudging that POV. Finding for the flaws ( usually of a moral nature) is a good way to sharpen the mind.

There is something particularly odious and Orwellian about Peretz, Wieseltier and the other pretend-liberals over at the New Republic. Give me a no holds barred self-described “conservative” right winger like crazy Norman Pod-head over these transparently anti-liberal “liberals” any day (well, perhaps not, Pod-head wants to enact nuclear armaggedon on Iran right now, along with whoever else gives him and Israel a wrong look). The level of hypocrisy and apparent self-delusion of Peretz and the rest of the New Republic pseudo-intellectuals is sort of mind-blowing. I’m trying to imagine what it must be like to be inside Peretz’s pickled mind, to ‘stand in his shoes’ so to speak. The idea that these New Republic Israel zealots must try so hard to convince themselves that they’re liberals (in any meaningful sense of the term)–or maybe they merely project this delusion to the eager and willing beltway Establishment–or that they have ANY, ANY remotest connection to the Enlightenment tradition, is really quite something.

I’m not sure even good ‘ol George Orwell could have imagined them.

“The idea of stopping all construction in all settlements means that once again the Israelis will be ceding something in advance and for nothing in return. This is a destructive negotiating tactic and will encourage the same kind of intransigence – you give me, I take – that has marked the Palestinians in all of the talks.”

One is accustomed to a lot from this crowd but still, every time I read stuff like this it nearly takes my breath away. The term “chutzpah” is too weak for it.

I stop stealing more of your land and, damn it, I get nothing in return.

Let us try again. The world has tacitly accepted the fact that, even within the green line, Israel has, through acts of war, already gained 23 – 24 percent more of 1947-Palestine than was allotted to it by the UN partition plan; this in spite of the fact that acquiring territory through acts of war has been against international law since the 1930′s.

The Palestinians have also acquiesced in this basically illegal situation and now only lay claim to 22% of 1947-Palestine.

The settlements have been explicitly declared to be illegal by the International Court of Justice. But Peretz wants Israel to be rewarded by the Palestinians for stopping to act illegally. This man is beyond belief.

One suspects this should read, “The very largest quite deliberately by design cling to Jerusalem.”