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	<title>Comments on: Freeman Withdraws: Israel Lobby 1-Obama 0</title>
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	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
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		<title>By: marzipan</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/03/10/israel-lobby-1-chas-freeman-and-mideast-realism-0/comment-page-1/#comment-107776</link>
		<dc:creator>marzipan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=6293#comment-107776</guid>
		<description>I second that, for ALL lobbies (Not just the Israeli ones). It&#039;ll be like how &#039;non profit&#039; organizations can be tax exempt by abiding to strict rules, so too should these lobbies. If they are made specifically to forward the agenda of foreign entities they should be taxed more severely and be branded as foreign elements that have foreign interests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second that, for ALL lobbies (Not just the Israeli ones). It&#8217;ll be like how &#8216;non profit&#8217; organizations can be tax exempt by abiding to strict rules, so too should these lobbies. If they are made specifically to forward the agenda of foreign entities they should be taxed more severely and be branded as foreign elements that have foreign interests.</p>
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		<title>By: marzipan</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/03/10/israel-lobby-1-chas-freeman-and-mideast-realism-0/comment-page-1/#comment-107775</link>
		<dc:creator>marzipan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=6293#comment-107775</guid>
		<description>The smears and libelous claims, that mostly originated from Steven Rosen of MEF (Middle East Forum), is quite disgusting. And Freeman is right to state that: 

&quot;I do not believe the National Intelligence Council could function effectively while its chair was under constant attack by unscrupulous people with a passionate attachment to the views of a political faction in a foreign country.&quot;

But I am also disappointed in his giving up without even a real fight.... After all, he was the one that withdrew. Obama did not advise or push him to it. And even if he did, he shouldn&#039;t have give up so easily. 

And so the fight goes on...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The smears and libelous claims, that mostly originated from Steven Rosen of MEF (Middle East Forum), is quite disgusting. And Freeman is right to state that: </p>
<p>&#8220;I do not believe the National Intelligence Council could function effectively while its chair was under constant attack by unscrupulous people with a passionate attachment to the views of a political faction in a foreign country.&#8221;</p>
<p>But I am also disappointed in his giving up without even a real fight&#8230;. After all, he was the one that withdrew. Obama did not advise or push him to it. And even if he did, he shouldn&#8217;t have give up so easily. </p>
<p>And so the fight goes on&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/03/10/israel-lobby-1-chas-freeman-and-mideast-realism-0/comment-page-1/#comment-107763</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 04:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Partisan politics.  The Republicans are desperate to score pts, any pts. they can against Obama.  They need to slow the momentum.  This, they think, is how they do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Partisan politics.  The Republicans are desperate to score pts, any pts. they can against Obama.  They need to slow the momentum.  This, they think, is how they do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/03/10/israel-lobby-1-chas-freeman-and-mideast-realism-0/comment-page-1/#comment-107762</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 04:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=6293#comment-107762</guid>
		<description>It certainly is &quot;pro-Israel&quot; to claim you&#039;re preventing Hamas leaders from resettling in the U.S.  Israel&#039;s goal is to have everyone in Gaza trapped in a cage.  Having the U.S. permit anyone to resettle here would be rewarding Hamas &amp; harming the siege.

But the late unlamented Kyl Amendment was really just an extension of the anti Obama smearmongering fr. the election campaign.  There never was a campaign to resettle any Palestinians here, let alone Hamasniks.  But if the wingnut pro-Israel hoaxsters could spread a rumor that there WAS such a plan it would throw Obama off his game for a few moments.  That&#039;s all these people ever hope for--to throw a cog in the machine.  And Kyl, Islamophobe that he is (having hosted a screening of Geert Wilders Fitna for Capitol Hill), was only too happy to be co opted into this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It certainly is &#8220;pro-Israel&#8221; to claim you&#8217;re preventing Hamas leaders from resettling in the U.S.  Israel&#8217;s goal is to have everyone in Gaza trapped in a cage.  Having the U.S. permit anyone to resettle here would be rewarding Hamas &#038; harming the siege.</p>
<p>But the late unlamented Kyl Amendment was really just an extension of the anti Obama smearmongering fr. the election campaign.  There never was a campaign to resettle any Palestinians here, let alone Hamasniks.  But if the wingnut pro-Israel hoaxsters could spread a rumor that there WAS such a plan it would throw Obama off his game for a few moments.  That&#8217;s all these people ever hope for&#8211;to throw a cog in the machine.  And Kyl, Islamophobe that he is (having hosted a screening of Geert Wilders Fitna for Capitol Hill), was only too happy to be co opted into this.</p>
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		<title>By: Walter Ballin</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/03/10/israel-lobby-1-chas-freeman-and-mideast-realism-0/comment-page-1/#comment-107759</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter Ballin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=6293#comment-107759</guid>
		<description>Not that this is going to happen, but I say that AIPAC and other organizations that are part of the Israel Lobby should be required to register as agents of a foreign government, which they are. Our government&#039;s unconditional support of Israel is very dangerous to our security. I also predict that if Obama does not stand up to the Israel Lobby and adopt an even-handed policy that the Palestinians will soon give up on a two-state solution. I predict that they will gain strength and fight more ferociously, and that they will attack the Jewish settlers and that there will be widespread suicide and other terrorist attacks in Israel proper, like nothing that has been seen before. I believe that there will be a bloodbath in Israel if this dispute is not settled soon. With the Palestinian population about to far outnumber the Israeli population, Israel cannot survive being an occupier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that this is going to happen, but I say that AIPAC and other organizations that are part of the Israel Lobby should be required to register as agents of a foreign government, which they are. Our government&#8217;s unconditional support of Israel is very dangerous to our security. I also predict that if Obama does not stand up to the Israel Lobby and adopt an even-handed policy that the Palestinians will soon give up on a two-state solution. I predict that they will gain strength and fight more ferociously, and that they will attack the Jewish settlers and that there will be widespread suicide and other terrorist attacks in Israel proper, like nothing that has been seen before. I believe that there will be a bloodbath in Israel if this dispute is not settled soon. With the Palestinian population about to far outnumber the Israeli population, Israel cannot survive being an occupier.</p>
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		<title>By: americangoy</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/03/10/israel-lobby-1-chas-freeman-and-mideast-realism-0/comment-page-1/#comment-107757</link>
		<dc:creator>americangoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=6293#comment-107757</guid>
		<description>Wait a second?

Do people still think of Obama as some kind of a saviour, as some kind of a hero, as ethical and moral?

Obama is just PR.

Putting a good face (lipstick) on a bad game (pig).

Obama is an American politician, and there are rules that he and every one of his ilk follow, once they reach a position of power in the American so called &quot;democracy&quot;.

Rule number 1 is slavish obedience to the Israel Lobby.


Which Obama always followed, as my blog link and this Washington Post article prove:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/04/AR2008060403508.html

&quot;A mere 12 hours after claiming the Democratic presidential nomination, Barack Obama appeared before the American Israel Public Affairs Committee yesterday -- and changed himself into an Israel hard-liner.

He promised $30 billion in military assistance for Israel. He declared that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps&#039; Quds Force has &quot;rightly been labeled a terrorist organization.&quot; He used terms such as &quot;false prophets of extremism&quot; and &quot;corrupt&quot; while discussing Palestinians. And he promised that &quot;Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.&quot; &quot;


Please, look beyond the hype and open your eyes.

We do not need false saviours - we need an educated populace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait a second?</p>
<p>Do people still think of Obama as some kind of a saviour, as some kind of a hero, as ethical and moral?</p>
<p>Obama is just PR.</p>
<p>Putting a good face (lipstick) on a bad game (pig).</p>
<p>Obama is an American politician, and there are rules that he and every one of his ilk follow, once they reach a position of power in the American so called &#8220;democracy&#8221;.</p>
<p>Rule number 1 is slavish obedience to the Israel Lobby.</p>
<p>Which Obama always followed, as my blog link and this Washington Post article prove:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/04/AR2008060403508.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/04/AR2008060403508.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;A mere 12 hours after claiming the Democratic presidential nomination, Barack Obama appeared before the American Israel Public Affairs Committee yesterday &#8212; and changed himself into an Israel hard-liner.</p>
<p>He promised $30 billion in military assistance for Israel. He declared that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps&#8217; Quds Force has &#8220;rightly been labeled a terrorist organization.&#8221; He used terms such as &#8220;false prophets of extremism&#8221; and &#8220;corrupt&#8221; while discussing Palestinians. And he promised that &#8220;Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.&#8221; &#8221;</p>
<p>Please, look beyond the hype and open your eyes.</p>
<p>We do not need false saviours &#8211; we need an educated populace.</p>
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		<title>By: Miriam</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/03/10/israel-lobby-1-chas-freeman-and-mideast-realism-0/comment-page-1/#comment-107752</link>
		<dc:creator>Miriam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=6293#comment-107752</guid>
		<description>Perhaps I missed it? but where is there any mention about the guy who led the charge against Chaz Freeman...that of Steve Rosen....who SIGNIFICANTLY is one of the two men who were indicted years ago for taking CLASSIFIED information about the US and passing it along to their handlers in Israel ...while they were employed for more than 20 years by AIPAC...taking information from Larry Franklin who was at the time employed by Dod, and who was sentenced to 12 yrs...was wearing a wire for FBI a number of times in order to capture the discussions of  Rosen and Weissman with Franklin.
 This is what is referred to as : betraying the US for a foreign govt. Now it appears that this latest case obtaining classified US info for Israel..which has been kicked down the road for 4 yrs-- was editorially explained on Wash Post as &quot;merely&quot; practicing &quot;free speech&quot;. How many Americans do you think even know about this 4 yr old espionage case or  that Rosen is key in it? or that it will probably be dismissed fairly soon thanks to Obama&#039;s new AG Eric Holder?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps I missed it? but where is there any mention about the guy who led the charge against Chaz Freeman&#8230;that of Steve Rosen&#8230;.who SIGNIFICANTLY is one of the two men who were indicted years ago for taking CLASSIFIED information about the US and passing it along to their handlers in Israel &#8230;while they were employed for more than 20 years by AIPAC&#8230;taking information from Larry Franklin who was at the time employed by Dod, and who was sentenced to 12 yrs&#8230;was wearing a wire for FBI a number of times in order to capture the discussions of  Rosen and Weissman with Franklin.<br />
 This is what is referred to as : betraying the US for a foreign govt. Now it appears that this latest case obtaining classified US info for Israel..which has been kicked down the road for 4 yrs&#8211; was editorially explained on Wash Post as &#8220;merely&#8221; practicing &#8220;free speech&#8221;. How many Americans do you think even know about this 4 yr old espionage case or  that Rosen is key in it? or that it will probably be dismissed fairly soon thanks to Obama&#8217;s new AG Eric Holder?</p>
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		<title>By: Arie Brand</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/03/10/israel-lobby-1-chas-freeman-and-mideast-realism-0/comment-page-1/#comment-107751</link>
		<dc:creator>Arie Brand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=6293#comment-107751</guid>
		<description>It is sometimes forgotten that Israel&#039;s main Western ally, before the US was saddled with the burden of that alliance, was France.  

France had warmly approved the coming about of the Israeli State and though it was a partner, together with Britain and the USA, to a 1952 tripartite agreement banning arms sales to the Middle East, began secretly supplying arms (tanks and the Mirage and Mystere planes with which Israel fought the Six Day War) to Israel. In 1956 of course it was allied with Israel (and Britain) in the Suez campaign.

All this began to change when De Gaulle appeared on the scene. In his memoirs (Memoirs of Hope 1971) De Gaulle, after voicing his admiration for what the Israelis had achieved, wrote coldly &quot;... I put a stop to irregular dealings which had developed between Tel Aviv and Paris on the military plane since the Suez expedition, whereby Israelis had become permanently attached at all levels to French military staffs and services. In particular, French co-operation in the construction of a factory near Beersheba for the transformation of uranium into plutonium - from which, one fine day, atomic bombs might emerge - was brought to an end.&quot;

It was, I think, a matter of &quot;raison d&#039;etat&quot;. After the war within Algeria which De Gaulle had managed to extricate France from he judged improvement in the relations with the Arab world through a more evenhanded approach to Israel in the interest of the state. 

De Gaulle warned Israel before the Six Day War of being the first to attack and stopped arms supplies a few days before the war, with the exception of spare parts for material already in Israeli possession.

When Israel turned out, in De Gaulle&#039;s view,  to be the aggressor and, against his advice, occupied Arab lands, the friendship came to an end. At a notorious press conference, held on 27th November 1968, where he described &quot;le peuple juif&quot; as &quot;an elite people, self-assured and domineering&quot;,  he again condemned Israel&#039;s occupation of Arab lands and the subjugation of local populations. He predicted there that Israel could not carry out a long term occupation &quot;without oppression, repression, expulsions and resistance, which Israel, in its turn, calls terrorism.&quot;

What seems to be mainly remembered about that press conference is De Gaulle&#039;s remark about &quot;le peuple juif&quot;. Raymond Aron, the political scientist/sociologist, accused him in a well known essay, not of personal anti-semitism, but of seemingly having conflated diaspora jews with Israelis and having made anti-semitic utterances once more respectable. 

De Gaulle resisted that interpretation in an exchange of letters with Ben Gurion with whom he seems to have had a rather warm personal relation (in his memoirs he professes his admiration for him saying that he &quot;developed an immediate liking and respect for this doughty warrior and champion&quot;). De Gaulle wrote: &quot;Some people claim to see this assessment as derogatory, whereas in fact there cannot be anything disparaging in underlining the character thanks to which this strong people was able to survive and remain itself after 19 centuries spent under incredible conditions.&quot;

In the same letter De Gaulle repeated his warnings about the unavoidable consequences of an &quot;occupation which has all the aspects of an annexation&quot; and by which Israel was &quot;overstepping the bounds of necessary moderation.&quot; 

We know the rest of the story: the US took over the role of France with a vengeance (is it coincidence that during the same period the American contempt for and dislike of France seems to have increased?).

At this stage it doesn&#039;t seem likely that President Obama will do a De Gaulle, that is judge American ties with Israel by the cool light of &quot;raison d&#039;etat&quot;. But then De Gaulle was of course not bound hand and foot by an Israel lobby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is sometimes forgotten that Israel&#8217;s main Western ally, before the US was saddled with the burden of that alliance, was France.  </p>
<p>France had warmly approved the coming about of the Israeli State and though it was a partner, together with Britain and the USA, to a 1952 tripartite agreement banning arms sales to the Middle East, began secretly supplying arms (tanks and the Mirage and Mystere planes with which Israel fought the Six Day War) to Israel. In 1956 of course it was allied with Israel (and Britain) in the Suez campaign.</p>
<p>All this began to change when De Gaulle appeared on the scene. In his memoirs (Memoirs of Hope 1971) De Gaulle, after voicing his admiration for what the Israelis had achieved, wrote coldly &#8220;&#8230; I put a stop to irregular dealings which had developed between Tel Aviv and Paris on the military plane since the Suez expedition, whereby Israelis had become permanently attached at all levels to French military staffs and services. In particular, French co-operation in the construction of a factory near Beersheba for the transformation of uranium into plutonium &#8211; from which, one fine day, atomic bombs might emerge &#8211; was brought to an end.&#8221;</p>
<p>It was, I think, a matter of &#8220;raison d&#8217;etat&#8221;. After the war within Algeria which De Gaulle had managed to extricate France from he judged improvement in the relations with the Arab world through a more evenhanded approach to Israel in the interest of the state. </p>
<p>De Gaulle warned Israel before the Six Day War of being the first to attack and stopped arms supplies a few days before the war, with the exception of spare parts for material already in Israeli possession.</p>
<p>When Israel turned out, in De Gaulle&#8217;s view,  to be the aggressor and, against his advice, occupied Arab lands, the friendship came to an end. At a notorious press conference, held on 27th November 1968, where he described &#8220;le peuple juif&#8221; as &#8220;an elite people, self-assured and domineering&#8221;,  he again condemned Israel&#8217;s occupation of Arab lands and the subjugation of local populations. He predicted there that Israel could not carry out a long term occupation &#8220;without oppression, repression, expulsions and resistance, which Israel, in its turn, calls terrorism.&#8221;</p>
<p>What seems to be mainly remembered about that press conference is De Gaulle&#8217;s remark about &#8220;le peuple juif&#8221;. Raymond Aron, the political scientist/sociologist, accused him in a well known essay, not of personal anti-semitism, but of seemingly having conflated diaspora jews with Israelis and having made anti-semitic utterances once more respectable. </p>
<p>De Gaulle resisted that interpretation in an exchange of letters with Ben Gurion with whom he seems to have had a rather warm personal relation (in his memoirs he professes his admiration for him saying that he &#8220;developed an immediate liking and respect for this doughty warrior and champion&#8221;). De Gaulle wrote: &#8220;Some people claim to see this assessment as derogatory, whereas in fact there cannot be anything disparaging in underlining the character thanks to which this strong people was able to survive and remain itself after 19 centuries spent under incredible conditions.&#8221;</p>
<p>In the same letter De Gaulle repeated his warnings about the unavoidable consequences of an &#8220;occupation which has all the aspects of an annexation&#8221; and by which Israel was &#8220;overstepping the bounds of necessary moderation.&#8221; </p>
<p>We know the rest of the story: the US took over the role of France with a vengeance (is it coincidence that during the same period the American contempt for and dislike of France seems to have increased?).</p>
<p>At this stage it doesn&#8217;t seem likely that President Obama will do a De Gaulle, that is judge American ties with Israel by the cool light of &#8220;raison d&#8217;etat&#8221;. But then De Gaulle was of course not bound hand and foot by an Israel lobby.</p>
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