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	<title>Comments on: NYT&#8217;s Ethan Bronner: IDF Gaza Killings &#8216;Painful But Inevitable&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/02/03/nyts-ethan-bronner-idf-gaza-killings-painful-but-inevitable/</link>
	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
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		<title>By: DICKERSON3870</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/02/03/nyts-ethan-bronner-idf-gaza-killings-painful-but-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-106684</link>
		<dc:creator>DICKERSON3870</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 02:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>FROM &quot;THE MAGNES ZIONIST&quot; (01/04/09) - by Jerry Haber (nom de plume): The truth is that Israel finds it easy to justify the so-called collateral damage in Gaza for the same reason that America found it easy to justify the collateral damage in Iraq. Because most Israelis are bigots when it comes to the Arabs, whether they are Hamas terrorists or Israeli citizens. They are gnats, tics, or perhaps, some quasi-humans, who one doesn&#039;t really care about. Or as the wife of a rabbi told me, &quot;They are animals, Jerry, all of them.&quot;

SOURCE - http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2009/01/from-ticking-bombs-to-bombing-tics-why.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FROM &#8220;THE MAGNES ZIONIST&#8221; (01/04/09) &#8211; by Jerry Haber (nom de plume): The truth is that Israel finds it easy to justify the so-called collateral damage in Gaza for the same reason that America found it easy to justify the collateral damage in Iraq. Because most Israelis are bigots when it comes to the Arabs, whether they are Hamas terrorists or Israeli citizens. They are gnats, tics, or perhaps, some quasi-humans, who one doesn&#8217;t really care about. Or as the wife of a rabbi told me, &#8220;They are animals, Jerry, all of them.&#8221;</p>
<p>SOURCE &#8211; <a href="http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2009/01/from-ticking-bombs-to-bombing-tics-why.html" rel="nofollow">http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2009/01/from-ticking-bombs-to-bombing-tics-why.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: DICKERSON3870</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/02/03/nyts-ethan-bronner-idf-gaza-killings-painful-but-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-106683</link>
		<dc:creator>DICKERSON3870</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 02:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>FROM &quot;THE MAGNES ZIONIST&quot; (01/04/09) - by Jerry Haber (nom de plume): &quot;Every time you think that Israel has hit rock bottom with respect to morality, we learn the painful truth – we still can and will descend further into the muck.&quot;

SOURCE - http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2009/01/only-jewish-prophet-left-gideon-levy-on.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FROM &#8220;THE MAGNES ZIONIST&#8221; (01/04/09) &#8211; by Jerry Haber (nom de plume): &#8220;Every time you think that Israel has hit rock bottom with respect to morality, we learn the painful truth – we still can and will descend further into the muck.&#8221;</p>
<p>SOURCE &#8211; <a href="http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2009/01/only-jewish-prophet-left-gideon-levy-on.html" rel="nofollow">http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2009/01/only-jewish-prophet-left-gideon-levy-on.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alex Stein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/02/03/nyts-ethan-bronner-idf-gaza-killings-painful-but-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-106675</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Stein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Phil Weiss also deals with the Obama drone attacks - http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/obama-continues-policies-in-muslim-world-discredited-by-the-last-administration.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil Weiss also deals with the Obama drone attacks &#8211; <a href="http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/obama-continues-policies-in-muslim-world-discredited-by-the-last-administration.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/obama-continues-policies-in-muslim-world-discredited-by-the-last-administration.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Donald  Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/02/03/nyts-ethan-bronner-idf-gaza-killings-painful-but-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-106658</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald  Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 01:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t understand what you&#039;re saying, Suzanne.  Bronner does editorialize and he does tell readers what they are supposed to think and he makes judgments which don&#039;t seem to be backed up by his own reporting.   Richard (our blog host here, not the other one) points this out.  I give Bronner a little bit of backhanded credit for the fact that his own reporting undermines his editorializing   Still, given his biases I wonder if he&#039;s unconsciously leaving things out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand what you&#8217;re saying, Suzanne.  Bronner does editorialize and he does tell readers what they are supposed to think and he makes judgments which don&#8217;t seem to be backed up by his own reporting.   Richard (our blog host here, not the other one) points this out.  I give Bronner a little bit of backhanded credit for the fact that his own reporting undermines his editorializing   Still, given his biases I wonder if he&#8217;s unconsciously leaving things out.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/02/03/nyts-ethan-bronner-idf-gaza-killings-painful-but-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-106657</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 01:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Horrifying at times and Bronner does do good digging. At least he even spoke to the victims and feigned at their truth. It&#039;s as if those victims had something to gain by falsifying what happened: dead relatives, more condemnation and war crimes investigations that really compensate the victims here. Funnily enough, it&#039;s not the IDF who has to repay the damage it did in Gaza but through donations coming from everyone else&#039;s pockets but the people who did the damage.

It must feel good to be a Palestinian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Horrifying at times and Bronner does do good digging. At least he even spoke to the victims and feigned at their truth. It&#8217;s as if those victims had something to gain by falsifying what happened: dead relatives, more condemnation and war crimes investigations that really compensate the victims here. Funnily enough, it&#8217;s not the IDF who has to repay the damage it did in Gaza but through donations coming from everyone else&#8217;s pockets but the people who did the damage.</p>
<p>It must feel good to be a Palestinian.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/02/03/nyts-ethan-bronner-idf-gaza-killings-painful-but-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-106654</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 21:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Richard I agree with your last paragraph and I share your outrage at what was done in this Gaza War not only to the innocents but to the cause of peace. I cannot tell you how upset I am to watch Israel committing this slow suicide, so unaware of it, apparently.

&lt;blockquote&gt; But will you hear even a whiff of that from the correspondent? No. He would argue that he merely presents the evidence and allows readers to draw their own conclusions. In a more nuanced case, that might be acceptable. But there is no nuance in what the IDF did in Gaza. An F-16 missile lacks any semblance of nuance. &lt;/blockquote&gt;


I think you go way overboard in your reaction to Ethan Bronner’s reporting. I find so often I read his articles and they sit well with me.  I don’t expect a moral judgment from him. I expect reporting- as best he can get it. It was not until the so-called “ceasefire” that he was allowed into Gaza and now we get his impressions. I appreciate how hard it is to phrase things to allow the reader to make the “correct” or even obvious judgments as you and I and others do. I don’t want Bronner to spoon feed me and tell me what is moral and what is not.

If you listen to his recent interview on Terri Gross you get a good idea of what is trying to do. I recommend it.


&lt;blockquote&gt;If he had said “Gazans during the recent war did not question the legitimacy…” then he’d certainly be correct. But the way he actually wrote the sentence is patently false. Many Palestinians question the efficacy of firing rockets at Israel. Opinion polls which Bronner has full access to confirm this month after month. The percentage of respondents who question this tactic varies depending on the horror of the week that Israel has inflicted. But the truth is that a significant number of Palestinians feel that firing rockets is a counter-productive tactic. It’s is really unpardonable that Bronner botched this.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Many Palestinians ( both WB’ers and Gazans) can believe in the legitimacy of firing rockets and at the same time question the efficacy of it. Two different things, two different poll questions. They can feel that it is legitimate ( and necessary) and at the same time feel it ( or know it is) counter-productive ultimately, but that they have little choice.

Again, for me good reporting presents facts and impressions in such a way that I am able to make the proper judgments. This has to do with the whole article and all the choices that go into it, choices of which anecdotes to tell or not to tell. It’s an art in a way…. and subject to a deadline.

I read this blog for commiseration and articulation on the similar moral judgments I make. I read certain columnists (opinions) for that commiseration too. I don’t want a reporter to do this. A reporter should report. Bronner has gone well enough beyond reporting so as to set the reader up to make moral judgments of their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard I agree with your last paragraph and I share your outrage at what was done in this Gaza War not only to the innocents but to the cause of peace. I cannot tell you how upset I am to watch Israel committing this slow suicide, so unaware of it, apparently.</p>
<blockquote><p> But will you hear even a whiff of that from the correspondent? No. He would argue that he merely presents the evidence and allows readers to draw their own conclusions. In a more nuanced case, that might be acceptable. But there is no nuance in what the IDF did in Gaza. An F-16 missile lacks any semblance of nuance. </p></blockquote>
<p>I think you go way overboard in your reaction to Ethan Bronner’s reporting. I find so often I read his articles and they sit well with me.  I don’t expect a moral judgment from him. I expect reporting- as best he can get it. It was not until the so-called “ceasefire” that he was allowed into Gaza and now we get his impressions. I appreciate how hard it is to phrase things to allow the reader to make the “correct” or even obvious judgments as you and I and others do. I don’t want Bronner to spoon feed me and tell me what is moral and what is not.</p>
<p>If you listen to his recent interview on Terri Gross you get a good idea of what is trying to do. I recommend it.</p>
<blockquote><p>If he had said “Gazans during the recent war did not question the legitimacy…” then he’d certainly be correct. But the way he actually wrote the sentence is patently false. Many Palestinians question the efficacy of firing rockets at Israel. Opinion polls which Bronner has full access to confirm this month after month. The percentage of respondents who question this tactic varies depending on the horror of the week that Israel has inflicted. But the truth is that a significant number of Palestinians feel that firing rockets is a counter-productive tactic. It’s is really unpardonable that Bronner botched this.</p></blockquote>
<p>Many Palestinians ( both WB’ers and Gazans) can believe in the legitimacy of firing rockets and at the same time question the efficacy of it. Two different things, two different poll questions. They can feel that it is legitimate ( and necessary) and at the same time feel it ( or know it is) counter-productive ultimately, but that they have little choice.</p>
<p>Again, for me good reporting presents facts and impressions in such a way that I am able to make the proper judgments. This has to do with the whole article and all the choices that go into it, choices of which anecdotes to tell or not to tell. It’s an art in a way…. and subject to a deadline.</p>
<p>I read this blog for commiseration and articulation on the similar moral judgments I make. I read certain columnists (opinions) for that commiseration too. I don’t want a reporter to do this. A reporter should report. Bronner has gone well enough beyond reporting so as to set the reader up to make moral judgments of their own.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/02/03/nyts-ethan-bronner-idf-gaza-killings-painful-but-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-106642</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Richard,
Why don&#039;t you take his information as information, and not seek authority or perfection from it.

I personally have been greatly educated by what I&#039;ve read and heard from Bronner on NPR.

You aren&#039;t mentioning reports that you trust more, or contrasting impressions, to provide more complete information, from sources that are equally subject to skepticism.

Please assist in our getting information. I THANK Ethan Bronner for the extent that he and his colleagues have informed. I understand that there is more to inquire into.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,<br />
Why don&#8217;t you take his information as information, and not seek authority or perfection from it.</p>
<p>I personally have been greatly educated by what I&#8217;ve read and heard from Bronner on NPR.</p>
<p>You aren&#8217;t mentioning reports that you trust more, or contrasting impressions, to provide more complete information, from sources that are equally subject to skepticism.</p>
<p>Please assist in our getting information. I THANK Ethan Bronner for the extent that he and his colleagues have informed. I understand that there is more to inquire into.</p>
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		<title>By: John Dickerson</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/02/03/nyts-ethan-bronner-idf-gaza-killings-painful-but-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-106640</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dickerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 07:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=5994#comment-106640</guid>
		<description>Politically, Hamas May Have Won

by Adam Morrow and Khaled Moussa al-Omrani, February 4, 2009 

CAIRO - Despite declarations of victory by Israel, the military assault on the Gaza Strip failed to achieve its stated aims, many analysts say. The assault, and even its exceptional brutality, may only have vindicated the notion of resistance among the Arab public.

&quot;The steadfastness of the resistance in Gaza in the face of Israeli military power has resuscitated the idea of armed resistance,&quot; Gamal Fahmi, political analyst and managing editor of opposition weekly Al-Arabi al-Nassiri, told IPS......

ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://www.antiwar.com/ips/morrowomrani.php?articleid=14189</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Politically, Hamas May Have Won</p>
<p>by Adam Morrow and Khaled Moussa al-Omrani, February 4, 2009 </p>
<p>CAIRO &#8211; Despite declarations of victory by Israel, the military assault on the Gaza Strip failed to achieve its stated aims, many analysts say. The assault, and even its exceptional brutality, may only have vindicated the notion of resistance among the Arab public.</p>
<p>&#8220;The steadfastness of the resistance in Gaza in the face of Israeli military power has resuscitated the idea of armed resistance,&#8221; Gamal Fahmi, political analyst and managing editor of opposition weekly Al-Arabi al-Nassiri, told IPS&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>ENTIRE ARTICLE &#8211; <a href="http://www.antiwar.com/ips/morrowomrani.php?articleid=14189" rel="nofollow">http://www.antiwar.com/ips/morrowomrani.php?articleid=14189</a></p>
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