.jpg){kind=small}
mini.jpg)
You are currently browsing comments. If you would like to return to the full story, you can read the full entry here: “Lies Jeffrey Goldberg Told Me (About Gaza)”.
Tags: hamas, jeffrey goldberg, palestinians
Tikun Olam-תיקון עולם: Make the World a Better Place
Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music
Recent Posts
- IDF Promotes Disgraced Commander to Prestigious New Post
- Major Study Finds No Muslim-American Terror Menace
- U.S. Officials Confirm Mossad-MEK Covert War Against Iran
- Paul Auster’s Moral Ambivalence on Israel
- U.S. Most Powerful Bunker Buster Cannot Destroy Iran’s Nukes
- Foreign Press Rents Tel Aviv Rooftops to Cover Iran War
- Former Senior U.S. Diplomats Propose Solution to Iran-American Conflict, Former Mossad Chief Says Toppling Syria Might End Iran Nuke Threat
- Jewish Forward Attack on Penn BDS Neglects Iarael Lobby’s Restraint on Free Press
Categories
- Arts & Crafts/ Architectural Preservation
- Blogs-Tech-Science
- Children & Family
- Film-TV-Media
- Folk & World Music
- Food and Drink
- Gardening
- Hudson River Valley
- Humor
- Jews & Judaism
- Mideast Peace
- Outdoors
- Politics & Society
- Seattle
- The Arts
- Travel
Mideast Peace
- Abraham’s Vision
- Alison Ramer
- Alternative Information Ctr
- Anarchists Against the Wall
- Arena of Speculation
- Aron’s Israel Peace Blog
- City of Brass
- Daoud Kuttab
- Emily Hauser
- Encounter Programs
- Gaza Gateway
- Gaza Human Rights Blog
- Gaza Mom
- Gaza Today
- Grassroots Jerusalem
- Hagada Hasmalit
- HaOkets העוקץ
- Helena Cobban: Just World News
- Hybrid States
- Ibn Ezra
- Islamicate
- Israel-Palestine Ctr for Research & Information
- Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions
- Jews for Justice for Palestinians
- JNews
- Just Vision
- Lawrence of Cyberia
- Lingua Imperii Israel
- Loonwatch
- Magnes Zionist
- Middle East Alliance
- Mideast Brief
- Mideastwire
- Mondoweiss
- Musings of a Muslim
- Muzzlewatch
- Mya Guarnieri
- Negev Co-Existence Forum
- Nur-al Cubicle
- Occupation Magazine
- Palestine Think Tank
- Palestine-Israel Journal
- Peace Now
- Peace Oil
- Political Islam Online
- Progressive Jewish Alliance
- Rabbi Brian's Blog
- Refuser Solidarity Network
- Religion & State in Israel
- Revealing Gaza
- Roi Word
- Sam Bahour
- Shalom Rav
- Sheikh Jarrah
- Stephen Walt
- Strategic Assessments Initiative
- Syd’s Blog
- The Media Line
- The Only Democracy
- The Third Way
- The Villages Group
- Things and Stuff
- TikkunTree Project
- Wallwritings
- Window into Palestine
- Women’s Lens
- Zochrot
My Sites
Progressive Blogs (and One Conservative)
- Challenging Christian Zionism
- Global Voices
- Jesus’ General
- Jews on First
- Jon Swift
- Transatlantikblog
Tech/Blogs
Follow Tikun Olam
Books I Love
CDs/DVDs: Give a Look & Listen
Bad as Goldberg is, and he’s awful, he’s no worse than Tom Friedman. Here’s Friedman contradicting himself today, first saying that Israel didn’t target civilians in Lebanon, then saying they did, and giving the reason for it–
“Israel’s counterstrategy was to use its Air Force to pummel Hezbollah and, while not directly targeting the Lebanese civilians with whom Hezbollah was intertwined, to inflict substantial property damage and collateral casualties on Lebanon at large. It was not pretty, but it was logical. Israel basically said that when dealing with a nonstate actor, Hezbollah, nested among civilians, the only long-term source of deterrence was to exact enough pain on the civilians — the families and employers of the militants — to restrain Hezbollah in the future.”
Your mistake and Goldberg’s. Who cares what sympathies Gazan’s have? Deeply felt, sincere, serious or whatever. If they just stop terrorizing Israel they can think what they like. All they need to do in Gaza is to pretend they are civilized human beings.
I never cease to be amazed about how a professor of humanities can hold such racist views when it comes to defending his own nation. Palestinians have just as much right to see Israelis as “pretending to be civilized human beings” considering they have murdered 1,000 of them in just over 2 weeks. The lack of humanity you’ve betrayed in that time has left me puzzled and disappointed in you.
You keep putting the cart before the horse, tzvee. The “terrorizing” is a RESPONSE to the siege of Gaza; the siege itself is a form of terror, and must stop. And when I say “siege”, I’m not only referring to the intensification of the siege that began with Hamas’ ascent to power; I also refer to Israel’s total control of Gaza’s coast, airspace, and borders. If Israel is not willing to relinquish that control, and get out of the way so that Gazans can lead ordinary lives, then it is not serious about stopping the rockets. It’s that simple, folks.
Andy you have neither a cart nor a horse. Terror is not a response to oppression. The two have no connection whatsoever. Proof? When Jews were oppressed for millenia – they did not become wanton pointless terrorists. Your repetition of the idiotic suffering-breeds-terrorism mantra makes me want to puke.
That’s not quite true now is it, Tzvee. What were the Maccabees if not guerilla insurgents of their day? They too engaged in suicide attacks on their Greek enemies. They too killed their own (Jewish Hellenizers) when they viewed them as traitors to their own (Maccabean) form of Jewish values.
And you don’t think the Romans viewed the Kochbaites as terrorists? What about the Sicarii who executed their fellow Jews as a result of religious-political differences? How about the Jewish partisans fighting the Nazis? YOu don’t think the Germans viewed them as terrorists? YOu see, one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist. It all depends on your national perspective.
Beware any ideological partisan like Tzvee who claims his own side is white as snow and the other side black as coal. Each side ends up a dingy grey which is the truth of current situation with Israel and Hamas.
tzvee’s logic: since the jews were oppressed for millenia and DID not resort to terror, they are now fully within their right to unleash terror on others.
Of course, one could also assume that had the oppressed jews of old, acquired critical mass in any one place, chance are they would have resorted to whatever terror was within their means to ensure their survival. Sometimes when they could fight back they did.
Besides, tzvee, what hamas is doing is called RESISTANCE. What Israel is doing is called State terror.
Ultimately, it’s israel that killed all those kids. Hundreds perhaps? but of course, it’s not israel’s fault – it never is. Those kids should have known better than to get born in gaza, right?
Looks like our hasbara-meisters are running out of ammunition. So here is a tip for you, tzvee -
the best counterclaim that I’ve seen israel make (courtesy of quote from an israeli apologist article cited by Phil Weiss) is that America did worse in falluja, so there. Now that much is, in fact, true. American soldiers pretty much executed over 3000 Fallujans, most of them civilians, losing 80 of their own, then raised the city to the ground, kicked out all the inhabitants, and now claims Falluja to be a model city for how to do counterinsurgency.
Should tzvee even be entertained?
“When Jews were oppressed for millenia – they did not become wanton pointless terrorists.”
I love the exculpatory fact here: no
“people” in history is absolved from “terrorism” or else they were extinguished forever. The availability of the press in all its form in the past twenty to thirty years has certainly helped put the spotlight on “hostile” segments that are deemed unworthy of equivalence. It must be tough to accept but many Jews committed rather horrible acts to fight against the persecution during the period and up to the Holocaust, and even the founders of Zionism don’t escape this when they attempted to push out the British and took arms against the Palestinians.
As regards to Goldberg: I thought he had an about-face because of his endorsement of Obama last year. I guess when it all comes down to it your true colours show when a war (or a massacre) is going on.
You keep putting the cart before the horse, Andy. The seige is a RESPONSE to the terror and rocket fire from Gaza; and when I say “terror” I mean not just the rockets and suicide bombings, but the very essence of Hamas: genocidal slaughter of Israelis (and Jews around the world) is enshrined as a religious obligation in its Charter. The Israeli control of Gaza’s borders is unfortunately necessary to prevent suicide/homicide attacks. It came after the terror. Israel’s total control of Gaza’s coast, airspace, and borders is simply a logical consequence of Hamas’s ideology. If Hamas is not willing to relinquish that quixotic genocidal fantasy, and get out of the way so that Gazans can lead ordinary lives, then it is not serious about reaching any cease-fire settlement that any objective person would recognize as reasonable. It’s that simple, folks.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, Peter. Israel imposed the siege after Hamas won the 2006 elections & took over the PA. There were no rockets flying. Israel just freaked when Hamas won the elections & hadn’t expected their arch enemy to win. When it did, it reacted in panic & hit on the utterly stupid idea of placing an international quarantine around Hamas & Gaza. IT had NOTHING to do with rockets then. IT was just politics.
Would you mind listing any of those genocidal holocausts Hamas has caused & tell us how many hundreds of thousands of Jews who’ve been killed as a result? What’s that? Ah yes, Peter will have trouble explaining why the alleged genocidal maniacs have suffered 100 times the deaths that the peace loving civilized Israelis have suffered during the current assault. And if you look back over the statistics over the years the numbers of Palestinians killed compared to Israelis has always been on the order of 6 or 10 to one. So much for genocidal slaughter.
Beware of the pro-Israel Pied Pipers who tell you “it’s that simple.” Nothing is simple about the I-P conflict…except in the minds of the True Believers like Peter.
Take it from a 13-year old kid in Gaza: Recognition can bring peace.
The article entitled “Israel Rejects 48-Hour Cease-Fire Plan” (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/01/world/middleeast/01mideast.html) contains the following noteworthy passage:
The Nakhala family, which lives next to the compound, was inspecting the damage on Tuesday morning and recounting the utter fear and panic they all felt as the missiles hit.
“We have no shelters in Gaza,” said the father, Osama Nakhala. “Where shall we go? I also have to worry about my mother, who is 80 years old and paralyzed.”
His 13-year-old son, Yousef, was with him. When asked his view of the situation, Yousef took an unusual stand for someone in Gaza, where Israel is being cursed by most everyone. “I blame Hamas. It doesn’t want to recognize Israel. If they did so there could be peace,” he said. “Egypt made a peace treaty with Israel, and nothing is happening to them.”
@Peter: I do so enjoy people who use anecdotes based on a single individual story to attempt to prove that 1.5 million people now hate Hamas and blame it for their misery. Undoubtedly, there are some Gazans who believe this. But for everyone that does there will be 1,000 who blame Israel unreservedly & unremittingly. Of course Hamas is to blame for their suffering. But Israel is FAR more to blame.
Those facts are plains lies, and you must know it. The rockets started about 2001, intensified in 2003. The highest number of rockets is years 2006 and 2007, with 2005 not far behind. Thats about 900 rockets per year.Why dont you go to Sderot and find out?
So what problem do you have exactly with todays opinion piece, by someone who finally tells the tryuth: the moslems hate non-Moslems, and will never make peace with Jews, because they are too low to speak with. Of course you belive the world is just a wonderful place where all love one another. But you live in relative peace, not among those who preach hatred of you and your readers.
Interssting how you must mention, (guilt?) of of how Jews may have committed “horrible crimes” prior to the Holocause. I hadnt realized we caused that too. Just brought it on ourselves, because we are evil . Very evil.
This is what Israel has blessed the Jewish people with: Jewish racists like Gmal who know all they need to know about Islam, which can be contained in a thimble, if that..
I’d say you’re dead wrong considering a Pakistani American went on a rampage in our federation building and our community still managed to come out of it w/o the nasty views you have of Muslims. And if you think my readers and I haven’t experienced hatred you’ve got another thing coming. But the hatred I read from readers comes mostly from Jews.
richard, (1) i will remind you that you are a member of the human race and of a tribe and as such ought to prioritize your moral outrage accordingly. (2) you will never find me defending wanton acts of terror as the absolute logical outcome of oppression. never. not by my tribe or any other. there are tolerable ways to use violence and there are preferable ways to practice non-violence. wanton acts of terror are not effective, are not humane, are not sanctioned under any circumstance. (3) you who decry torture ought to just as loudly decry terror. yet you “understand” it instead. this professor of the humanities and father, husband, grandfather, human being says to you – not acceptable my dear friend.
@Richard:
“They too engaged in suicide attacks on their Greek enemies.”
Can you provide a source for this?
Way back in my Hebrew school days I learned that the only way to attack a Greek solider atop an elephant was to get underneath it and stab it with a spear. Only problem? The elephant fell on you & killed you. Or if it didn’t fall upon you it would trample you in rage. Hence, suicide attack. Amazing what you pick up in Hebrew school.
Admittedly, this was a suicide attack against a military target. But you can be damn sure Antiochus thought of these crazy Maccabees as the terrorists of his day. Not to mention the fact that I already mentioned that they weren’t above offing their Jewish brethren if they were (viewed as) corrupt priests or Hellenizers.
We could be a bloodthirsty bunch even way back then, don’t you think?
tzvee, what is the murder of 320 Palestinian children and over 1,000 Palestinians altogether (vast majority civilian) this past week but a massive wanton act of Terror? The seriously injured Palestinians of Gaza are in the thousands, scores have absolutely horrific injuries wrought by Israeli weapons. And what about Israel’s use of white phosphorus, which is a violation of international law? It’s hard for me to believe these are the acts of a civilized country.
There is something so morally sickening about dressing up the perpetrators of this Gaza massacre as the victims. And I have some news for you tzvee: As hard as it is for you seemingly to understand or accept, the Palestinians are human beings who deserve to live in dignity and safety just as much as Israeli Jews do. Yes, human beings. Not sick dogs who according to you apparently deserve to be cordoned off, starved, shelled and gunned down (by weapons conveniently supplied by my country, the U.S., of course). For this is what Israel is doing. Actually nobody I know would treat any living creature the way Israel regularly treats the Palestinians. The level of utter soul-numbing dehumanization of the Palestinians implicit in your comments is just beyond belief. Racism barely begins to describe it.
“If the BBC is to be believed, IDF soldiers are deliberately shooting women and children in Gaza. Their TV reporting from the scene today interviewed doctors in hospitals who asked the obvious rhetorical question as to why they have children patients with multiple small arms wounds. One child had two bullets in the head. In the head, … not fragments from large caliber weapons. These were small arms bullets.”
Pat Lang http://turcopolier.typepad.com/
Inevitably, there will be many more revelations in this vein in the days and weeks to come. They will not surprise viewers of Al Jazeera, which last night showed footage of a graveyard (!?) that had been shelled. What will credulous readers of the swill produced by the likes of Friedman, Goldberg and some of the commenters above make of them? What will the world make of them?
Uri Avnery has it right: the war on Gaza is moral insanity. Those who condone it are guilty of the same.
One can only hope that war crimes trials at the Hague await Israel’s current political and military leadership.
tzvee wrote:
Well I say that Israel’s siege of Gaza even BEFORE the most recent events preventing food and medical supplies being brought in and Israel’s murder of almost 1,000 people in Gaza, are wanton acts of terror. Israel’s dropping phosphorous bombs causing people to be severely mutilated, suffer internal injuries and have tissue torn from their flesh, I say is wanton terror.
Richard Silverstein writes:
“Would you mind listing any of those genocidal holocausts Hamas has caused & tell us how many hundreds of thousands of Jews who’ve been killed as a result? What’s that? Ah yes, Peter will have trouble explaining why the alleged genocidal maniacs have suffered 100 times the deaths that the peace loving civilized Israelis have suffered during the current assault. And if you look back over the statistics over the years the numbers of Palestinians killed compared to Israelis has always been on the order of 6 or 10 to one. So much for genocidal slaughter.”
My response:
Richard is applying an irrelevant metric. Far more German civilians, especially children, died in WWII than did American civilians (and children). Obviously that does not mean that Germany was morally in the right and the Allies morally wrong. Intention matters. Germany was the clear aggressor; if it had not committed acts of aggression, those German children would never have been killed. It is the same with the Israelis and Palestinians. The Palestinians have suffered more casualties than Israelis for several reasons. Israel builds bomb shelters and warning systems to protect its children (whom Hamas targets). Hamas uses human shields. Hamas’s intention is clear to anyone who reads its Charter. These rockets, even though largely ineffective to date, nevertheless terrorize, and in fact, left unchecked, they will become increasingly accurate and longer-range. There has already been evidence of this. If Hamas hadn’t shot over ten thousand rockets at southern Israeli civilian towns, the current military operation would not be taking place.
Peter,
The Allied attacks on German civilians during WWII were war crimes. The fact that the Allies were in the right and the Germans in the wrong does not alter this fact.
richard, i see now from your nonsensical example of an elephant legend that you are not a serious person and that i am wasting my time here
Aspects of Jewish history that you admire are facts. But those which aren’t as convenient are “nonsensical legends?” Jews have engaged in acts of terrorism (as defined by their enemies) over the ages. You claimed we haven’t done so. You are wrong.
And I also forgot the incident of the Polish Jew (Grynshpahn?) who assassinated a Nazi official in Paris which led to Kristallnacht. Terrorism? If you were a Nazi German certainly. If you were/are a Jew? Certainly not. In fact, it’s an act of utmost heroism & moral courage. Depends whose ox is being gored, doesn’t it?
You’ve dismissed the argument w/o disproving the facts or arguing more persuasive ones. Is that the way you formulate yr arguments when writing an academic paper? If so, it’s a wonder you’re published anywhere.
Tzvee, while I agree that the elephant example was not a very clever one, I think you yourself don’t come across as a serious person with your insistence that Jews were not involved in terror (or was it “wanton pointless terror”? I guess that’ll need a definition)
Of course Jews were involved in terror and you should know it. Even if we ignore the terror groups cum militias like Etzel and Lehi (and even Hagana), Jews were well – some say too well – represented in some of the most murderous movements of the twentieth century. But maybe the Jewish commissars responsible for forced starvation of millions of Ukranian peasants during Holodomor did not engage in “wanton pointless terror” in your book…
Here’s some wanton acts of terror. Israeli forces bomb cemetery in Gaza. Yeah one never knows. Israel had to do this in “self-defense,” lest the dead rise up and launch terror attacks on Israel. Then there are the phosphorus bombs that Israel has been dropping causing horrible carnage. Check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oXFRTXi2tk
ok let me add that in addition to selectively citing legends as if they are facts (is anything you say factual?) – you also like to personally attack your adversary. i am duly insulted. and why is it that you see the need to attack your fellow Jew here on the blog or out there in the world of current events? would that anyone cares.
You claim I “selectively” cite legends, when you’ve only disputed one so-called legend I cited. You never even addressed the other historical events which I cited. Are they selective too? If so, how many should I cite before you concede I’m not being “selective” and that Jews have been just as inclined to do things that their enemies might describe as terrorism as any Palestinian might do?
Can you find any source that disproves the story I told? I learned it as fact. If it isn’t, instead of calling it nonsense why don’t you explain why you think it is & maybe even prove it? And even if it is, which I’m not prepared to concede, one disproved item does not disprove the other citings & my overall pt.
As to why I’m harsh, I’m not partial to anyone no matter who they are who believes Gazans are little more than animals and worthy of being hunted down by the IDF simply because of the political choices they’ve made of which you disapprove. I make the arguments personal because there’s life & death at stake. It’s not simply an intellectual exercise. Making it personal brings it home more dramatically.
Last time I checked the Zionists used terror during early 1900s to establish the Jewish State.
Last time I checked Zionist terrorism caused people to flee their homes in fear that they’d be their next victims.
tvzee is a professor of something? I guess he’s Israeli right? That explains it.
What a disgusting country.
Unfair. I believe Tzvee is either American or Israeli-American. It’s not fair to pin a label on him simply because he’s Israeli. There are Israelis who are aghast at what’s being done in their name. I wish Tzvee were one of them. But he’s not. Being Israeli isn’t the problem though.
Wow, just checked his blog.
“Is So and So Jewish”
“Is So and So Jewish”
That’s all you have to write about? What a clown.
You’re right. It’s not fair.
But most Israelis are happy about the Gaza attacks.
For them, history always begins when Hamas or whoever attacks them. They don’t factor in the occupation or the indiscriminate killing of Palestinian civilians and the daily abuse/etc.
Who are we kidding? Nothing is going to save the Palestinians. They’re going to be wiped out like the Native Americans.
LD wrote: “Who are we kidding? Nothing is going to save the Palestinians. They’re going to be wiped out like the Native Americans.”
I don’t think so. Their cause is the cause of many people throughout the Middle East. As I said before I expect Obama to make settling this dispute a top priority, but if this dispute isn’t settled soon, organizations like Al-Quaida will attract more people, and they will be in the Palestinian territories. I just want to add that while I was shocked and horrified by the 9/11 attacks, I was not surprised. One of the reasons that they occurred, was because of our government’s unconditional support of Israel and it’s occupation and oppression of the Palestinians.
Keep telling yourself that.
The fact that Israel had to kill 1000 Palestinians and wound another 5000 in 2 weeks to get people to even SLIGHTLY criticize them is quite telling.
This recent atrocity is nothing. It’s business as usual.
We’re building permanent bases all throughout the ME. We’re gearing up for a war with Iran.
Obama believes Israel should get all of Jerusalem. He has surrounded himself with Zionist hawks.
Nothing is going to change.
Furthermore, no one will do anything about it. The Arab people are subjugated by their corrupt dictators. Corrupt dictators that WE keep in power.
The abject racism that has been facilitated by Jewish intellectuals, Neocons, ignorant pundits, etc. has degraded the collective sensibilities of the American public.
We don’t even vote based on issues. We vote based on personality.
Our country is turning into a freakshow LIKE Israel. Where everyone is paranoid and racist. Everyone hates Arabs and Muslims.
Even though there are 1 billion Arabs and 1.8 billion Muslims.
In a country where the Jewish perspective is deeply ingrained in our culture and so-called News, there is ZERO hope for a fair, reasoned analysis of the ME or the Arab world.
The stereo-typing of Arabs and Islam as ‘evil’ versus the stereo-typing of Jews and Judaism as either victims or in it’s newest phase, heroes (Defiance).
People talk about how Obama being elected is a victory against racism. But thats not it AT ALL.
We – as a society – have just become socialized to accept blacks now. Same goes for Jews. We express overt racism against Arabs. Overt prejudice against Asians.
People still think Zionism or this concept of a Jewish State is just fine. No one gets that Israelis want to MAINTAIN a Jewish majority. Hence, all the settlements and the indiscriminate violence against the Palestinians.
Richard is a faux liberal like most of American Jewry. You say you care about these principles and morals but you’re like everyone else who shows complete bias for your ‘group’ – whether youre American or Jew or whatever.
I’m Indian btw. I don’t know much about India but I’m open to criticism based on PRINCIPLE not on ‘identity’ politics.
You can’t recognize the racial undertones to this conflict. You want to say its about religion and terrorism? What a load of bullshit.
What the fuck do you expect Hamas to do? All these decades of occupation and abuse? Israel is the fourth strongest army in the world! Hamas’s reaction is out of desperation. And the antisemitism expressed by Palestinians is not due to irrational hatred. Its based on their daily experiences WITH JEWS. The end result – antisemitism, is irrational. But the CAUSE is not. I’d hate Jews too if all I ever had to pass through checkpoints/curfews/watch my home demolished/watch my family and friends killed without remorse/treated like an animal/etc.
LD, I understand your frustration and moral outrage with what the self-described ‘Jewish state’ is doing to the Palestinians with the thumbs up of our government and the pathetic acquiescence of most Americans; and it’s true that it is difficult to criticize Israel in any sort of mainstream venue in our country.
However, your take on Richard is so off-base I don’t even know how to respond. Do you actually read what he writes? It has to be clear to any discerning, thoughtful person, Richard’s sympathy and feeling for the viciously persecuted Palestinians and the Arab and Muslim world generally, and his moral outrage at what Israel is doing. It’s true that Richard doesn’t hide his Jewishness and his attachment to Jewish culture, nor should he. Maybe your understandable horror at Israel’s mindless slaughter of Palestinians, a country that does often say it speaks for the Jews, has clouded your judgement in this regard. But you’re way out to lunch concerning Richard. Try to learn to make distinctions between things when you think.
LD wrote: “Who are we kidding? Nothing is going to save the Palestinians. They’re going to be wiped out like the Native Americans.”
You may be unfamiliar with demographic trends. Far from being “ethnically cleansed,” the Palestinian Arab population of Gaza (and the West Bank as well, for that matter) has been consistently and dramatically increasing ever since 1948. Indeed, Arab population in Palestine in general has been increasing ever since Jewish immigration began in significant numbers in the late 19th century.
700,000 Israeli Arabs left/were “cleansed” from Israel during the 1948 war. If they hadn’t been “persuaded” to leave those numbers would be even greater. There is no doubt that Israel makes living conditions for Palestinians so miserable esp. in Gaza that if they COULD leave they would.
LD writes: “The fact that Israel had to kill 1000 Palestinians and wound another 5000 in 2 weeks to get people to even SLIGHTLY criticize them is quite telling.”
The fact that Palestinians have killed about 1000 Israeli civilians by expressly targeting them by shooting rockets at schools, blowing up buses, night clubs, market places, restaurants, etc and wounding god-knows-how-many-more is apparently not enough to get SOME readers of this blog to criticize them AT ALL – let alone slightly. That is also very telling.
Peter, how many Palestinians has Israel killed in the same time period? So far, just over 5000.
Israel has killed 1000+ (definitely over 1000 now) in the same time period your statistic covers.
Your statistic is the total number of civilian casualties since the beginning of the Second Intifada.
You are right about my exageration of being ‘wiped out’. However, I do believe that the Palestinians will end up trapped in a bantustan-style apartheid system FOREVER.
There’s a great article by Jeff Halper where he explains that Israel is turning the Palestinians into ‘warehouse people’.
@Warren
I apologize to you and Richard. I am giving Richard a hard time with my comments and it’s unfair. I am frustrated.
This entire thing we’re doing in the middle east is wrong. It’s not about terror. If it was WE’D STOP SUPPORTING IT. We support the Saudi regime. We support Mubarek and the Jordanian regime. We support Uribe in Colombia. Etc. etc. etc.
There is no moral center in any government. In any powerful government certainly.
This is all about money and power. Just good ole’ fashioned conquest and I don’t think we can stop it.
Israel has better weapons. That’s ALL.
Dang. I meant to say :
Israel has killed over 1000+ (definitely over 1000 now) CHILDREN since the beginning of the Second Intifada.
So your statistic is correct but once again pales in comparison to the brutality of Israel.
And the solution is SIMPLE. Give Palestinians their land back. Give them the West Bank and Gaza. Dismantle the settlements. Be FAIR. Stop colonizing their them. Stop treating them like animals.
I know that’s hard. You’ve been taught that you’re superior because you have more money and guns.