What part of that is hard to understand?

The part that you, ignoramus that you are, made up.

The absolute falsity of arguing anything credible about Hamas from its 1988 charter is the score or more of articles by & about senior Hamas leaders noting their willingness to accept, even if grudingly, Israel’s existence. Your attempting to argue what Hamas believes even from a 2006 article makes it out of date as views have changed in the interim. But leaving all that aside, if Israel keeps killing off Hamas senior leaders then it may not even have the privilege of dealing with Hamas as its interlocutor. It may have a Palestinian version of Osama bin Laden as its future enemy. Then it truly will have gotten the enemy it deserves.

What Israel doesn’t understand is that even if it exterminates Hamas it has not exterminated the Palestinian people. They have a national will. If there is no Hamas there will be something else. It’s not like destroying Hamas automatically turns the Palestinians into malleable robots willing to do Israel’s bidding.

But arguing against any fundamental changes are Hamas’s deeply held religious views, as expressed in its charter, sermons and election platform. … (views) that regards all Israeli territory as irrevocably Muslim land.

The most fundamental of those beliefs, says Hisham Ahmed, a political scientist at Birzeit University in Ramallah and a student of Hamas, is that the entire land of Palestine belongs to God and is Muslim holy land….no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it.

In the charter, Hamas describes itself as “a distinct Palestinian Movement which owes its loyalty to Allah, derives from Islam its way of life and strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.”

It calls for the elimination of Israel and Jews from Islamic holy land and portrays the Jews as evil, citing an anti-Semitic version of history going back to the Crusades. It also includes a reference to the noted czarist forgery of a plan for world domination, “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” and condemnation of supposedly Zionist organizations like the Rotary Club and the Masons.

It describes the struggle against the Jews as a religious obligation for every Muslim, saying, “For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails.”

Despite the platform’s relative moderation, a Hamas spokesman, Sami Abu Zuhri, vehemently denied any contradictions with the charter. “The platform refers to details and implementation methods for the next four years, while the charter lays out our permanent strategic views,” he said.

Salah al-Bardawil, a Hamas candidate, said that “had we spoken of eliminating and eradicating Israel within this period, we would have been deceiving our people and repeating false slogans.” Still, he said, Hamas emphasizes “the elimination and nonrecognition of Israel.”

But no Hamas leader or candidate is on record as sanctioning a permanent recognition of Israel’s right to exist side by side with an independent Palestinian state

As Mr. Zahar also said, “We do not recognize the Israeli enemy, nor his right to be our neighbor, nor to stay, nor his ownership of any inch of land.”

Nor is any Hamas leader on record as expressing a willingness to disarm or to stop attacks on Israel and Israelis, or to make a distinction between Israeli soldiers and civilians, especially settlers living on occupied land, however defined.

This is the New York Times, and as you can see the Charter and the ideology behind it is still very relevant.
In fairness the article also said,

Mr. Haniya, … takes a slightly softer tone, and the jailed Hamas leader in the West Bank, Sheik Hussein Youssef, is softer still.

But the article presents zero evidence of this “softness”.

Seriously, al-Rantisi has been dead for a few years. He has no impact on today’s Hamas. Now, if you find me a similar statement by the 2 senior leaders of the group today, Khaled Meshal & Ismail Haniye, then we can talk.

If you don’t believe my site stats there are endless ways in which you can discover how many visitors my site gets. I’m not in the business of going out of my way to prove anything to the likes of you. But you have ways you can do it yrself. I’m getting 2,000-3,000 unique visitors to this blog every day since the war began. Eat yr heart out.

They [my views] ARE in the minority, by a sizable margin.

Prove it. Withdrawal from West Bank settlements? U.S. Jews support it. Sharing Jerusalem? Israelis support it. Opposition to the Gaza invasion? 60% of Democrats (which 80+% of Jews are) oppose it. Negotiating with Hamas? Israelis support it. Attacking Iran? American Jews oppose it. Each of these is documented in non partisan opinion surveys linked in this blog. So precisely which of my views are in the minority?

In reality you have utterly no idea why the turnout was what it was.

I don’t care whether you believe what I said about the turnout for the rally. The proof is in the pudding. 1,200 turned out. That’s 2% of the local Jewish population. If the invasion was truly supported by the community more would’ve showed up. They didn’t. That’s what I know and it’s all I need to know. BTW, Seattle did a tad better than NYC, where a paltry 10,000 Jews turned out for a similar rally. Turns out that NY Jews are even more grossed out by Gaza than Seattle Jews.

The Guardian is a typically virulently anti-Israel left-wing rag.

Dear reader, keep in mind this is the very same person who boasted that he belongs to one of Seattle’s most liberal synaoguges. I guess somehow the liberalism hasn’t rubbed off on you now has it? “Virulently anti-Israel?” What stupidity. Who taught you these propaganda slogans anyway? Answer me a direct question: are you a member of Stand With Us? With inane views like the one you expressed above you must be. Only Jewish trogdolytes like those in SWU have such ridiculous views.

The only change is that this time you’re not accusing me of being “paid”.

I NEVER WROTE you were paid by anyone. Do you understand what that means? NEVER. Not last time. Not ever. Make this claim again & you’ll be toast.

An utter lie. It’s Hamas which has consistently rejected any negotiation with Israel and which still

Tiresome stuff, Phil. Ahmed Youseff said in an interview broadcast on ISRAELI TV (weren’t you watching?) that Hamas was willing to meet Israel at any time and any place to negotiate. Israel, however, consistently rejects negotiations with Hamas. Frankly, I can’t believe your refusal to acknowledge reality. I’ve blogged about Yousef’s interview here. All you have to do is Google “Hamas willing to negotiate with Israel” & I’ll bet you’ll find numerous links to prove your ignorance.

I suggest that you spend some time examining how the U.S. government “talked to” the Imperial Japanese government in August 1945.

Are you suggesting that Israel should drop a nuclear bomb on Gaza as the U.S. did on Japan? Avigdor Lieberman just suggested the same thing. So you’d be birds of a feather if you both feel this way. The diff. bet. WWII and now is that Hamas has not surrendered and will never surrender (unless Israel drops the big one–and then there wouldn’t be anything left for Hamas TO surrender).

More than one U.N. “ambulance” has been found by the Israelis to have been used for the transporting of weapons and munitions

You’re confusing your hasbara stories Phil. It wasn’t UN ambulances, it was Palestinian ambulances that Israel has accused the Palestinians of using to convey weapons. Such a charage has never to my knowledge been levelled against the UN. I dare you to prove otherwise.

where incidentally is your “proof” that “Israel has violated every treaty it has signed regarding the Palestinians going back to Oslo, if not earlier” ? I don’t see any such “evidence”.

What about that settlement freeze that was step 1 of the Road Map? What about the lifting of the siege that was part of previous ceasefires with Hamas? What about permitting free travel between Gaza and the West Bank that was part of an agreement brokered between the U.S. and Israel under Condi Rice’s auspices? What about the creation of that Palestinian state that was also part of the Road Map? Where I come from that’s called “evidence.”

it clearly offers a devastatingly accurate view of Hamas’s view of the world and the conflict

Nonsense. The Hamas charter offers a 20 year old out of date propagandistic view of the movement’s views and aims as of that date. You don’t know jack about Hamas except what you read in Frontpagemagazine or at the Stand With Us website.

how would you have the slightest clue as to whether or not that document is “moribund”

Because the NY Times ran a story on precisely this subject and drew basically the same conclusions as I. The reporter told Hamas leaders what the charter said and not only didn’t they know it, they claimed it would be impossible for it to say that. They simply didn’t even know their own charter, that’s how relevant it is to the business of the movement. It shows the utter impoverishment of yr world view that you’re not even aware that western news media have done stories on this subject & you don’t have a clue. Crack open a newspaper or a website once in a while aside from the Jerusalem Post & you might learn something.

They DO implement qiute a few of the provisions in their respective party platforms, or at least they certainly try to.

Not only do you not know much about Israeli policy or Hamas, you don’t even know about American politics. Go back & read the Republican party platform & tell me how much of it they “implemented” in the last 8 yrs.

Just because Hamas was democratically ‘elected’, does not mean they are ‘democratic’ in nature.

So now you’re saying that Hamas not only has to win a democratic election to be a legitimate Palestinian representative, but they have to smell just right and wear the right outfit for Israel to be willing to sit in the same room with them? Maybe Israel will want to dictate what the room arrangements are and the color scheme of the tablecloths for their first meeting with Hamas. Israel doesn’t get the right to determine which Palestinian party truly represents the Palestinians. They get to make that decision and they did in 2006. As long as Israel rejects this there will be ongoing catastrophe for both sides.

What do you call the palestinian Authority, if not the conceptual government of a Nation-State?

I ask you why Israel has refused to recognize a Palestinian state & you reply that they recognized a “conceptual government of a Nation-State?” I don’t even know what that gobbledy gook means. A state is a state. There is no Palestinian state. Period.

Doesn’t matter worth a rat’s ass whether “The Rest Of The World” THINKS it “SHOULD BE” the border. It’s not a ‘border’.

Afraid you’re wrong there pardner. It’s quite important to Israel that the rest of the world accept its definition of the international border. Because until then Israel will continue to elude acceptance in the world community. You may not give a rat’s ass about this but Israel does and so do its leaders. Jerusalem will never be accepted as Israel’s capital by the world until it accepts the Green Line and returns to the 67 borders. How much pleasure it will give me on the day such an agreement is signed between Israel and the Palestinians. You’ll be gnashing yr teeth. Do me a favor. Come back here so I can gloat that peace was achieved on terms I laid out and which you didn’t give a rat’s ass about.

Rabin offered Arafat a breathtaking 95% of what he was asking for

Confusing your Israeli leaders aren’t you? Why should I have to give you lessons on this stuff since you’re supposedly the big pro-Israel macher. It was Barak, not Rabin. And he offered 91%, not 95%. And it was an insufficient offer. Even Clinton staffers who were there like Aaron David Miller recognize the offer wasn’t going to fly.

Show me where I ever mentioned “Democrats” at all? And what possible relevence is that?

Let me spell it out for you since you’re having a hard time following my argument. 80-85% of Jews are Democrats. If 60% of Democrats oppose the Gaza assault, and those who oppose outnumber those who support by 30 points, then it stands to reason that Jews, aside from you and the rest of the extremist pro-Israel crowd, are at least evenly divided about the conflict.

Take a good look in the mirror, Richard. I hope you like what you see. I can easily live with my stance, my views, my statements. Can you say and do the same?

You bet. I’m proud to have earned the enmity of an ignorant, prejudiced person like yrself. I’d be disappointed in myself if I didn’t.

WRONG AGAIN.

“On January 26, 2004, senior Hamas official Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi offered a 10-year truce, or hudna, in return for a complete withdrawal by Israel from the territories captured in the Six Day War, and the establishment of a Palestinian state (it remade the same offer after winning the majority in the PLC, accepting the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative.

Hamas leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin stated that the group could accept a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Rantissi confirmed that Hamas had come to the conclusion that it was “DIFFICULT TO LIBERATE ‘ALL’ OUR LAND AT THIS STAGE, SO WE ACCEPT A ‘PHASED LIBERATION.”

He said the truce could last 10 years, THOUGH “NOT MORE THAN 10 YEARS”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hamas

“Got news for you Phil. 7,500 unique visitors to this site since I wrote that post.”

Well, so you “claim”. I don’t see any “proof” of that, though. Why is that? Did you think you’re the only one who’s “allowed” to question other peoples’ claims?

“And if you’re claiming this means my views are in a minority…”

They ARE in the minority, by a sizable margin.

“Those who are either progressive or too grossed out and disgusted by Israel’s actions simply didn’t show up.”

Or they had laundry to do, or kids who needed help with their homework, or work to do around the house. In reality you have utterly no idea why the turnout was what it was. All you have are your “ass”-umptions for why more people didn’t show up. Where I come from, that’s called “ass”-uming facts not in evidence.

“….perhaps you’ll explain why my site traffic has gone up four fold since Gaza began…”

Well, so YOU ’say’. But then, you WOULD say that, wouldn’t you? Again, I don’t see any ‘evidence’ being provided of this — and quite frankly and bluntly, your ‘word’ really just doesn’t cut it as far as I’m concerned.

“…why I now have 300 daily subscribers…”

So you ‘claim’.

“…. why I’ve been interviewed by KUOW, Swiss public radio, been published by The Guardian….”

The Guardian is a typically virulently anti-Israel left-wing rag. It’s hardly remarkable or surprising that they’d feature an American commenter whose views they already share. It’s not as though they went specifically looking for someone who could offer a contrasting or opposing view, is it?

“…. and linked by blogs all over the world?”

Am I “supposed to be” impressed or surprised that people who happen to agree with you would link to your blog? It’s nothing more than a worldwide circle-jerk linking people who share a vehement disagreement with the people of Israel and the choices which they and their elected leaders have made.

“So you’re in fact lying which is SOP for Israel Firsters like you.”

So, once again, you’re back to making sweeping bigoted generalizations and smears against INDIVIDUALS who disagree with you. Why am I not surprised? Let’s see, what Commandment covers that? Ohhh yeah, “Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor”. I suggest that you go back and read that one a few more times, Richard. It obviously didn’t quite “take” with you, did it?

“And if you ever deliberately fabricate quotations or lie about my views again you’ll never comment here again.”

Like, I “care”? ;->

“I had & have a sneaking impression that you didn’t come hear by accident and were either sent here by someone or by a local pro Israel group.”

So, yet AGAIN, you’re falling back once again on “hinting” or “suggesting” that because I openly express my vehement disagreement with your views, I “must have been” ’sent’ here as a ’shill’ by somebody. The only change is that this time you’re not accusing me of being “paid”. First you say that you never claimed I was being paid. Next, you just can’t help yourself or keep from inferring that I’m somebody’s “stooge” acting at someone else’s “suggestion” or “behest”.

Is a bit of paranoia creeping in there, Richard? Are you seeing enemies everywhere? Is AIPAC “out to get you” ?

“I’ll throw the question back at you: ”

Why don’t you try ANSWERING it, instead? Who’s engaging in the “diversionary tactics” now, Richard? Hmmmmm?

“when will Israel site down & negotiate a comprehensive end to the conflict?”

When they have a negotiating partner who is willing to sit down with THEM and to recognize Israel’s inalienable Right to exist — which, not incidentally, Hamas steadfastly refuses to do.

“And further, how CAN Hamas negotiate a comprehensive end to the conflict when it is Israel in fact which refuses to negotiate with Hamas (Hamas has always expressed willingness to negotiate with Israel).”

An utter lie. It’s Hamas which has consistently rejected any negotiation with Israel and which still – even now! – refuses to meet with Israelis to discuss a possible ceasefire. That’s the reason they’re relying on the Egyptians as intermediaries — because, as Hamas knows full well, meeting with an Israeli governmental representative is tantamount to recognizing the EXISTENCE of that State and government. And Hamas would rather die than do that.

“Usually to negotiate an end to a conflict you have to sit down & talk to the opposing party. Maybe you can come up w. a way to avoid doing this & still negotiate a settlement, but I haven’t figured out how to do that yet.”

I suggest that you spend some time examining how the U.S. government “talked to” the Imperial Japanese government in August 1945. The U.S. government essentially said, “SURRENDER, UNCONDITIONALLY, -NOW-, or we’ll turn what’s left of your country into a radioactive ashtray from one end of Japan to the other”. The Imperial Japanese government’s willingness to accept a “settlement” seemed to suddenly increase rather dramatically, forthwith.

“Why is it that Israel has consistently refused to allow the presence of international observers on its borders with the Occupied Territories?”

Why do you run from my questions, Richard? Why do you refuse to answer the questions I have posed to you? What are you afraid of? Is it so important to you to constantly find new and exciting ways to put the blame on Israel that you find it necessary to duck and evade even the simplest of questions?

The reason that Israel has opposed the placement of international observers on its border with Judea and Samaria is quite bluntly and obviously because in the past, those so-called “international observers” have proven themselves to be far less willing in Real Life to comply with their U.N.-mandated requirement to be impartial and nonpartisan. More than one U.N. “ambulance” has been found by the Israelis to have been used for the transporting of weapons and munitions. The Israelis have no particular reason to trust the U.N.

“Why is it that Israel has violated every treaty it has signed regarding the Palestinians going back to Oslo, if not earlier?”

Why don’t you answer my questions, Richard? What are you afraid of?

And where incidentally is your “proof” that “Israel has violated every treaty it has signed regarding the Palestinians going back to Oslo, if not earlier” ? I don’t see any such “evidence”.

“Why is it that you bring up a moribund document written over 20 years ago whose content no Hamas member has ever looked at as it gathered dust in some back office in Rafah?”

Because it clearly offers a devastatingly accurate view of Hamas’s view of the world and the conflict. And because it contains a lot of illuminating content which you no doubt find embarassing… stuff like, claiming that “the Jews” control the world’s financial systems, that “the Jews” have been responsible for all of the world’s wars, etc. Is that why you really don’t want to talk about Hamas’s founding Charter — which, by the way, is still in effect today?

And while we’re on the subject, how would you have the slightest clue as to whether or not that document is “moribund” or whether or not any Hamas member has ever looked at it in 20 years? Were you there?

“Why is it that the Republican and Democratic parties never implement any of the provisions of their own national platforms announced with fanfare every four years?”

They DO implement qiute a few of the provisions in their respective party platforms, or at least they certainly try to. Maybe you weren’t paying attention?

“Why is it that Israel has never allowed the creation of a Palestinian state….”

What do you call the palestinian Authority, if not the conceptual government of a Nation-State? HELLLOOOOOOOOOO?

“…. nor has IT recognized Hamas as a legitimate political party representing Palestinians despite its being democratically elected to do so?”

Where did you get the totally mistaken idea that Israel is somehow “required” to deal with Hamas?

Just because Hamas was democratically ‘elected’, does not mean they are ‘democratic’ in nature. In case you have been living in a cave and not paying attention, Hamas has been busily snuffing out any and all organized resistance to their brutal rule in Gaza. Fatah rallies have been broken up, even fired upon; people demonstrating peacefully have been shot dead by Hamas gunmen.

So the people of Gaza “democratically elected” a self-avowed terrorist group that has the blood of thousands of Israelis (the overhwelming majority of whom were civilians) on their hands. So what? All that means is that the Gazans are now morally culpable for the actions of their elected representatives. Therefore, it’s now completely okay to portray the Gazans as supporters of Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorism, because they voted the terrorists into power.

Hitler was democratically elected, too. Didn’t mean that the rest of the world was “required” to agree with or accept his policies.

“Why is it that Israel has never accepted the Green Line as ITS international border…..”

Because IT ISN’T a “border” and never was. Doesn’t matter worth a flying fark whether you WANT it to be a ‘border’. It’s not a border. Doesn’t matter worth a rat’s ass whether “The Rest Of The World” THINKS it “SHOULD BE” the border. It’s not a ‘border’. Never was. Never will be. All it is, is a cease-fire line — it’s where the Arab and Israeli forces happened to find themselves sitting at when the cease-fire was declared.

“…. nor has it presented any other border as a demarcation of its territorial control and ambitions?”

Because doing so requires there to be a negotiating partner on the other side of the table from Israel. And Hamas consistently refuses to negotiate ANYTHING AT ALL with Israel. As far as Hamas is concerned, the only thing to be “negotiated” is whether Israelis will dismantle their country sooner rather than later, and whether they will flee for other parts of the world by jet plane or by ship.

“Palestinians have been begging to be a country for decades. Israel has refused.”

Ohhh, so THAT’S why Rabin offered Arafat a breathtaking 95% of what he was asking for, huh? And when he didn’t get “exactly 100%” of what he wanted, Arafat unleashed the next “intifada”.

And IS THAT why the Israelis acceded to the creation of the Palestinian Authority, and willingly released hundreds of Palestinian terrorists, who’d committed attacks against Israelis, from Israeli jails? Hmmmmm?

“Then I guess the 60% of Democrats who oppose the Gaza invasion are abnormal people who don’t know how to think. Is that your claim?”

Show me where I ever mentioned “Democrats” at all? And what possible relevence is that? You ARE aware, I take it, that there are a lot of other voters out there BESIDES Democrats, and that their views and their votes count, too – right?

“If so, how utterly condescending to your fellow Americans and Jews who hold views contrary to yours. The whole world shares your views. Those that don’t are mentally or morally deficient. How absurd & pitiful.”

That’s YOUR position, Richard. Not mine. So kindly don’t ever presume to put words in my mouth again, no matter how ‘convenient’ you may find it to so so.

After all – ‘I’ am not the one who just can’t resist stooping to ’suggesting’, ‘inferring’, ‘hinting’, etc. that anyone who comes here and disagrees with you is either a “Hasbara shill” (to loosely quote your own words) or someone who has been somehow “referred” or “sent” here by some other unknown but presumably ‘nefarious’ Israeli support group.

In fact, the ONLY person I see here who is even remotely engaged in that kind of conduct is — YOU, Richard.

Take a good look in the mirror, Richard. I hope you like what you see. I can easily live with my stance, my views, my statements. Can you say and do the same?

Or is this yet another unfortunate case of “Pot, meet Kettle” on your part?