Indian Muslims Condemn Terror; After Hebron Settler Pogrom, Jewish-Right’s Silence « Tikun Olam-תיקון עולם: Make the World a Better Place

Indian Muslims Condemn Terror; After Hebron Settler Pogrom, Jewish-Right’s Silence

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Tags: muslim, pogrom

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53 Responses to “Indian Muslims Condemn Terror; After Hebron Settler Pogrom, Jewish-Right’s Silence”

Richard Silverstein says:

December 13, 2008 at 2:37 AM

@amir: Talk about off topic. Whenever you don’t like a claim made against Israeli policy your side always invokes something you despise about the other side as if the two balance ea. other out somehow.

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Alex Stein says:

December 13, 2008 at 2:39 AM

@ “Talk about off topic. Whenever you don’t like a claim made against Israeli policy your side always invokes something you despise about the other side as if the two balance ea. other out somehow.”
As opposed to you, Richard, who avoids answering critical questions about Mumbai by invoking the settlers. Your double-standards here are frequently astounding.

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amir says:

December 13, 2008 at 4:09 AM

Since you said “Muslims DO denounce terror when it comes from within their ranks” I think the Hamas response is very on-topic. And Hamas is a major player in the Arab-Israeli conflict so their reaction gives us some insight into the nature of their organization and is of great importance. The sme cannot be said of “Young Israel,” a group I heard of for the first time when I read this post.

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Richard Silverstein says:

December 13, 2008 at 2:24 PM

@amir: I didn’t say EVERY Muslim or every Muslim group denounces terror. I said Muslims denounce terror.

Young Israel is one of the major Orthodox groups in the U.S. Just because you have never heard of it does not mean that it’s not a significant player in the Orthodox community.

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Richard Silverstein says:

December 13, 2008 at 2:30 PM

@Alex Stein: I think it’s the right & even responsibility of a blogger to make connections bet. events they see as relevant to ea. other in some way. Bloggers create the topics. That’s our job. It’s our blog. It’s also our right & responsibility to determine when a comment goes off topic. Otherwise conversation meanders into murky meaningless tangents.

Commenters often make connections bet. events I never thought of & take conversations in interesting new directions. I don’t have a problem w. that. But other commenters are merely trying to score propaganda pts for their side by veering from a discussion of Mumbai terror & Muslim denunciation of it into a denunciation of Hamas because it allegedly hasn’t done so. That’s what I define as “off topic.” And yes, as disappointing as this may be to you, I’m the one who distinguishes bet. what’s off & on-topic.

You’re perfectly free to set that agenda & make yr own distinctions at yr own blog & I’ll do that for myself here. And like the typical backseat driver, my skeptical opponents can’t help but add their two cents & critique my editorial decisions. They’d be far better off sitting back & enjoying the ride or getting in their own car & driving themselves in their own fashion.

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Alex Stein says:

December 13, 2008 at 10:18 PM

Well, we knew about the double standards. Now we also know about the authoritarian side. You never cease to amaze.

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Richard Silverstein says:

December 14, 2008 at 12:51 AM

@Alex Stein: If exercising editorial control over one’s blog is authoritarian then it’s what many of the world’s best editors do every day & they too must be authoritarians. That’s what editing & authorship is about–taking responsibility for yr content & that of others writing in your space.

If I wrote about food or parenting I might be able to have a laissez faire attitude toward these things. But experience has unfortunately taught me that exercising control is very important as far as this blog is concerned.

It may interest you to know that today alone a commenter called me a “monster” and threatened to “section” me. In another thread, a pro-settler extremist accused my mother of sleeping with an Arab thus making me half Arab. When those types of issues happen at yr blog then we can talk about what philosophy of editing you adopt to deal with it. One thing I won’t do though is accuse you of being authoritarian if you decide you need to shape the direction of discussion in some of yr threads.

I wanted to clarify a sentence I wrote above regarding this subject. I don’t regard all people who comment here in a style that indicates they are trying to score propaganda points as being ‘off-topic.’ I regard commenters like Amir as off-topic, they always seem to be hankering to inject a pet peeve anti-Palestinian agenda into discussions having little or nothing to do with the subject. In his case, it was a discussion of Mumbai terror & Muslim denunciation of it, into which he attempted to inject a denunciation of Hamas because they allegedly did not denounce the Mumbai attack. That’s what I meant by “off topic.”

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Alex Stein says:

December 14, 2008 at 3:21 AM

Richard – I’m not suggesting that you shouldn’t ban abusive posters. But to complain when someone invokes Hamas in a discussion about settlers when you are happy to invoke the settlers in a discussion about Mumbai is plain chutzpa.

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amir says:

December 14, 2008 at 11:43 AM

RS: “commenters like Amir … always seem to be hankering to inject a pet peeve anti-Palestinian agenda”
I’ve posted stuff against Hamas and Fatah on your blog but I don’t think I’ve posted anything anti-Palestinian. Calling me anti-Palestinian or an Islamophobe for things I’ve posted against their leadership is as unfair as calling someone anti-American for being critical of the Republican party, for example. Just to make things clear, I look forward to the day when Jews and Arabs may live side by side respecting each others human dignity. As far as the likes of Hamas goes, it’s them I can do without.

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Richard Silverstein says:

December 14, 2008 at 2:09 PM

@amir: Since Hamas & Fatah essentially ARE the Palestinian people, you’ve insulted their only political manifestations. Besides, I’ve NEVER seen you write anything positive or sympathetic toward anything Palestinians whether it be Fatah, Hamas or anything else Palestinian.

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Mark Gardner says:

December 15, 2008 at 7:27 AM

Richard, you wrote to me: “You have your head firmly stuck up the rear part of yr anatomy if you think the Hebronistas aren’t capable of & willing to carry out such mass murder in the future. And if they do I’ll be calling on you & reminding you of yr foolish words here”.

I’ve already said they are capable of it, and I’ve already condemned their attempts. Check your site, Dec 5th, 4.02pm.

How about you show me 10% of the respect you show for Mumbai jiahdis?

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amir says:

December 15, 2008 at 11:54 AM

None of that makes me anti-Palestinian.

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Richard Silverstein says:

December 15, 2008 at 5:29 PM

@Mark Gardner: You claimed that the Hebronistas who attempted to immolate the Palestinians inside their home didn’t succeed in their criminal intent & therefore shouldn’t be equated with the Mumbai terrorists. That’s what I objected to.

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Richard Silverstein says:

December 15, 2008 at 5:45 PM

@amir: Hating Fatah and hating Hamas is like a foreigner saying they hate Democrats AND Republicans but don’t necessarily hate American politics or America. Doesn’t leave you much to like. I’d still challenge you to say anything positive about Palestinians. I haven’t heard it.

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amir says:

December 15, 2008 at 9:12 PM

So which one do you like, Richard, Fatah or Hamas?

I don’t have to make some sort of “some of my best friends are Palestinians” statement to prove that I’m not anti-Palestinian. I’m not anti-Palestinian and there is no evidence to indicate that I am.

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Richard Silverstein says:

December 15, 2008 at 11:38 PM

@amir: I don’t “like” either of them. Fatah is corrupt & rudderless. Hamas is intolerant & extremist. But Hamas strikes me as a more authentic Palestinian voice & not afraid of running in an election to determine who was most popular. I respect that though I certainly have many problems w. Hamas.

You don’t need to make a statement about having anything positive to say about Palestinians because you can’t & you haven’t. BTW, in the law silence may be construed as assent.

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amir says:

December 16, 2008 at 12:02 PM

According to your own logic you would be considered anti-Palestinian because you don’t like either Fatah or Hama. “Doesn’t leave you much to like.”
I’m not sure what you mean by “silence may be construed as assent”. You’ve accused me at various times of being racist, an islamophobe, anti-Palestinian or anti-Arab and I have never been silent or assented to this vile accusation.

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Richard Silverstein says:

December 16, 2008 at 11:33 PM

@amir: I asked what you had ever done, said or written that showed Palestinians in a favorable light. You refused to answer. Silence is assent.

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Alex Stein says:

December 17, 2008 at 12:08 AM

Richard – does that principle apply to all the questions you don’t answer, or is the standard different because it’s your blog?

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Richard Silverstein says:

December 17, 2008 at 12:16 AM

@Alex Stein: Considering that I don’t believe I’ve ever asked Amir to answer such a question in the years he’s commented here and that readers demand I answer their claims virtually every week here & excoriate me if I don’t, I’d say the terms are a little different. Besides, my question should be very easy to answer. Either he’s said or written positive things about Palestinians or he hasn’t. Shouldn’t be too hard to answer.

The scenarios, lists of questions/demands, hypotheticals that are posed to me are quite a bit more complicated besides the fact that they arise, as I wrote, almost every week if not more often.

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amir says:

December 17, 2008 at 8:50 AM

If you’re asking have I written anything positive about Palestinians then the answer is probably no. I never claimed to be pro-Palestinian. But that doesn’t make me anti-Palestinian either, which I define as being prejudiced against them or hateful.

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Richard Silverstein says:

December 17, 2008 at 3:03 PM

@amir: So you’ve finally answered the question. Thank God for that. You haven’t written anything favorable about Palestinians, yet you claim not to be prejudiced against them.

Well I’ve read every comment you’ve written here & I say you are. And most reasonable readers here would agree. I’m not going to spend a lot of time going back over yr past comments to pt. out the bile you’ve written about Palestinians (besides I think I already did that once before when we had a similar interaction). If you can’t find anything positive you’ve ever written about Palestinians I’m going to interpret that as confirmation that you are hostile to them & their interests.

And once again, I invite you to produce anything you’ve written that proves you are not.

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amir says:

December 18, 2008 at 12:57 PM

I disagree.

And the last time you called me a racist I challenged you to prove it and you said that would be as easy as finding a drop of water in Lake Michigan (or something like that) yet even that was too difficult for you beause you didn’t do it. You might want to try to follow your own comment rules. Argue all you want but why resort to name calling if your arguments are so strong?

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