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Tags: jewish terror, muslim, terror
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@J.R.: You’re completely off your rocker. Do you think your solipsism and cuteness is persuasive to anyone but yrself??? Lord preserve & defend us from those non-Muslims who claim to be so learned that they can teach us their bent understanding of the culture & religion.
You know the term jihadi has, as I said, many meanings. One of them IS a struggle, possibly including violence, in which Islam surmounts its enemies. Another is an inner spiritual struggle. There is no single correct meaning for the term and both are permissible.
Besides, I am talking about JEWISH jihadis, not Muslim jihadis. So yr inane notion that a Muslim will be offended because I’ve criticized Jews for sharing similar extremist outlook to Islamists is ridiculous.
The idea that I hold “hateful” views toward Islam is so far outside reality of any normal person as to make me believe you’re beaming yrself down from another planet somewhere in the outlying solar system. What are you on about?
I don’t apply the term Jewish jihadi to ALL Jews with whom I disagree. I only apply it to those who are prepared to fight a global religious war with Islam; or who believe the only way to solve the I-P conflict is with a crushing military victory over the Palestinians.
Baseless hatred?? Really. Tell me about the setttlers dancing on that Palestinian home trying to burn it down with 20 innocent souls inside. When you’ve denounced that then we can talk about MY baseless hatred.
Because they said that was their purpose. That’s why.
I’m so disgusted by yr inanity that I’m moderating yr future comments. Get off this topic and write about something else or any future comments won’t see the light of day.
Jihadi is not really an Arabic or Islamic term in the way we use it in English. Someone taking part in a holy war is a mujahhid.
That said, the Lubavitcher organization in Israel is highly political and generally allied with the most racist anti-Arab parties.
I have the impression from my interactions with various Chabad Houses that Israeli intelligence agents often use them for their own purposes.
Yehuda Krinsky and the Crown Heights Lubavitcher leadership have a lot of responsibility for the tragedy at the Chabad Nariman House.
Chabad Lubavitch’ Dangerous Game is my blog entry on the subject.
Joachim Martillo, in your linked piece you say: “One can easily imagine that Neocon intelligentsia trying to develop a relationship with Hindutva intelligentsia or politicians might have used the Chabad Nariman House as a meeting place.”
You can imagine what you like but your comment is utterly without any foundation in reality. Do you think that the terrorists were looking for ‘neocon intelligentsia’, whatever that is, in the Chabad house? Or do you wish to incite terrorists to do so in the future? A disgraceful piece of hate propaganda.
Richard, you actually wrote: “THis is ludicrous. I’ve pointed out to you scores of attacks by Jews (that is Israelis) against Palestinians.”
Given your lack of distinction here between Jew and Israeli, what on earth can we expect from terrorists in the way of distinction between Jews and Israelis?
(For the avoidance of doubt, I am NOT claiming that they sit and read your blog whilst at Terrrorist Training Camp – merely that if thats how even you see it, how on earth can we expect terrorists to see it any differently?)
“Given your lack of distinction here between Jew and Israeli, what on earth can we expect from terrorists in the way of distinction between Jews and Israelis? ”
Mark Gardner, Richard doesn’t get it. He will never get it.
He needs and equivalence between Jews and Muslim Jihadists. How else will he feel superior to us Yids?
[comment deleted for violation of comment rules]
Reply to J. R.’s comment.
At various Chabad Houses, I have run into Israeli government and military personnel that were probably intelligence agents — I have a fairly good sense of such people because I worked with the Israeli military industrial complex in the late 80s and early 90s.
Providing space to such people alone makes Chabad Houses targets, but as I keep pointing out, in Israel Chabad allies itself with the most vicious most racist anti-Arab, anti-Muslim and anti-Gentile political parties.
Chabad’s politics also makes it a target.
As for Neocon intelligentsia, if you don’t have a clue, pick up Heilbrunn’s They Knew They Were Right.
Otherwise, you a simply completely intellectually dishonest and not worth a discussion.
If you have been asleep for the last eight years, Neocons have been manipulating the US government into incinerating Arab and Muslim countries since shortly after Bush took office.
Jews really have a duty to the USA to denounce Neocons and demand their arrest and prosecution. It is in Jewish best interest because Neocon ideology, influence, and activities as a Jewish special interest makes all Jews targets unless American Jews start disassociating themselves from Neoconservatism pronto.
Thanks for deleting my post. I expected nothing less from someone who loves the posts of the antisemite and Holocaust justifier Joachim Martillo and Philip Weiss who spent his time telling people that Norman Mailer was not a Jews.
Your choice of freinds tells people all we need to know about you.
You are not even a good snake oil salesman. Your oil is just polluted water.
@shriber: I allow Joachim Martillo to post comments here just as I allow you to do so. If you disagree w. something he says you’re free to say so. I do not “love” his “posts.” I may’ve linked to his blog once among the nearly 3,000 posts I’ve written. But he has as much right to be here as you do.
As for Phil, I don’t know what you’re on about & have no idea what’s bothering you.
And as for earning your enmity, I’m proud to have done so. I can presently think of few people who I’m happier I sit opposite politically & Jewishly.
If you want your posts to be published and not deleted, then read the comment rules & respect them. If you don’t, they won’t see the light of day.
[comment deleted for violation of rules]
“And as for earning your enmity, I’m proud to have done so. I can presently think of few people who I’m happier I sit opposite politically & Jewishly.”
My enmity toward you is not political as you have no politics and it’s nor “Jewishly” whatever that mean to you, since are not enough of a Jew for me to oppose on those grounds.
I oppose your self serving narcissism as well as your vileness as a human being.
Joachim Martillo, you say you met “Israeli government and military personnel that were probably intelligence agents”. Probably? Well, who actually were they? Government? Miltary? Intelligence? Using the Chabad for a sinister purpose? Complete fantasy and a typical extremist smear. To suggest Chabad made itself a target demonstrates that you are simply a hate-peddler.
Joachim Martillo, regarding neocons: if I am to understand your statement about neocons meeting in the Chabad house, are you suggesting that Rumsfeld hangs out in Nariman House? Was Dick Cheney there? If you use a term like ‘neocon’ in this way you need to think about what it actually means. “Neocons have been manipulating the US government into incinerating Arab and Muslim countries” – well what has this got to do with Israel, which opposed the Iraq war, (rightly in my opinion) and certainly didn’t have an axe to grind in Afghanistan. If you mix the crimes of US foreign policy up with your Jew-hate you end up with meaningless paranoid conspiracy stuff like your contributions here.
If Richard Silverstein and I agreed on everything, I would not bother to read his blog or comment on it.
As for the comment: “Given your lack of distinction here between Jew and Israeli, what on earth can we expect from terrorists in the way of distinction between Jews and Israelis?,” do not Zionist ideology, Israel advocates, and the official statements of the Israeli government conciously attempt to blur this distinction?
They all talk about the Jewish people and its right to Eretz Israel. They almost never use the term Israeli people, and declare Israel is the State of the Jewish people and not of the Israeli people.
See an example in Baltimore Zionism Seeks New Meaning.
Take a look at No Tolerance For Anti-Zionist In Madrid.
Jewish leaders invited to the conference had also threatened to boycott it if Weiss — who gained notoriety by speaking at a Holocaust denial conference in Tehran two years ago — were invited to speak in Madrid. Organizers of this week’s conference finally announced that Rabbi Weiss would not be among the speakers, and had decided not to attend the conference. He was replaced as principal Jewish speaker by Rabbi Arthur Schneier, spiritual leader of Park East Synagogue in Manhattan and founder of the interfaith Appeal of Conscience Foundation.
No group makes a bigger distinction between Israel and Judaism than Neturei Karta. Not did Schneier insist that Weiss not speak, but Dr. Sayyid Syeed, national director of the Islamic Society of North America, showed complete Zionist mental colonization, groveled to Schneier and accepted an effective equation of Judaism and Israel.
So stop criticizing the equation of Israeli and Jewish when Zionists freak at Jews that are most insistant on differentiating between Jewish and Israeli.
@shriber:
I was waiting for you to write something so egregious that banning would be the only appropriate response. And mazel tov, you’ve hit the jackpot today.
Richard Silverstein, does your comment of December 12th, 2008 at 9:51 pm mean that you only permit yourself to use invective against commenters? I await your moderation with interest.
@J.R.: I VERY RARELY call anyone here a vile human being. The only times I’ve done it were with people who advocated sending Ehud Olmert to the gallows. This is not garden variety invective for me as it appears to be for Shriber. There was absolutely no justification for his insult other than pure pique.
Well Richard, I note that you said I am completely off my rocker, have a bent understanding of Islam, come from another planet, and that you are disgusted by my inanity. None of which is really necessary unless you find it difficult to deal with being challenged.
I don’t know if you are a vile human being but I do find your opinion that the Mumbai terrorists committed the atrocity because of Israel to be vile. Specifically you said in reply to my question that you consider the murder of indians, americans and britons was because of Israel “Because they [the terrorists(s)] said that was their purpose.”. Others think that the murder of Indians is related to the long-standing conflict between India and Pakistan over Kashmir. The murder of westerners is a feature of violent islamic terrorism that goes back a long time before 9/11, unfortunately.
I think that you are demonising Israel by the simple formula that says: really bad things happen because of Israel so Israel must be really bad. You demonise Israel by promoting Israel as the single cause of all the hatred that motivates these appalling acts of violence. And you demonstrate a dangerous naivety by failing to understand the nature of terrorism: its organisation, motivation and purpose. The rationale of terrorism is to increase terror in the civilian population and to increase state activities (state repression, or in this case perhaps war between India and Pakistan) that will then engender more hatred and fuel the vicious cycle of terror. The terrorists strategy is to increase instability until a tipping point is reached. Clearly in Pakistan the tipping point is dangerously close. The all-too-frequent carnage of suicide murder in Pakistan, which I am sure you will agree is not connected to Israel, is another facet of this evil strategy.
Hatred of Israel/Zionism/Jews is an important motivator for the terrorist operatives. Those who organise this terrorism use Jews as the ideal receptacle of negative projection in a way that is entirely consonant with traditional anti-Semitism.
I think you would do well to consider this rather than taking the propaganda of terrorists at face value. And also bear in mind the feelings of the relatives of the victims. And I would also suggest that the comments of Mr Martillo, which verge on incitement, are a very dubious contribution to ‘tikun olam’.
@J.R.:
It’s not my OPINION. It’s actual fact as stated by one of the terrorists who I was merely quoting. If you find an actual witness’ testimony as to his motivation to be wrong then you’d either have to be one of his fellow terrorists, a senior member of Lashkar or else clarivoyant. Which is it?
No, not what I said. The terrorist who attacked CHABAD HOUSE said his motivation was to avenge Palestinian suffering.
If you’d bothered to read my statements you’d have read my clear acknowledgement that the other attacks were in revenge for India’s treatment of Kashmir.
Where did you receive your special anti-terrorism training allowing you to penetrate the secrets of the terrorist mind? The CIA? Army War College? Shin Bet?
Just as hatred of Palestinians is an important motivator for Jewish terror operatives.
But actually I do agree w. much of what you said about the purpose of terror.
This actually reminds me of the strategy of the extremist settlers. What is “price tag” if not this?
er,Er, as far as I know, the surviving terrorist wasn’t one of the ones who attacked Chabad House. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Alex Stein, – and to a lesser extent – Mark Gardner:
Why on earth do you engage in purported sincere dialogue with someone who:
1. seemingly cannot even master the English language˙[see R.S.'s spelling "their" (sic!) when obviously intended to write "THERE" - as this was brilliantly uncovered by Petra]
2. Jewish anti-Semites [see working definition of the European Union as such...] – in my book subhuman Jewish Nazis like this person – whatever these idiots like him would depict others – let him rant and rave – who is this stinkin’ asshole – in spite of being a native English speaker, he cannot even use English correctly – and I am NOT a native English speaker…
@Gábor Fränkl, (30) freelance journalist Budapest, Hungary Central-Europe:
All hail Gabor Frankl and all those linguistic sleuths who’ve uncovered all the sins I’ve committed against the English language by mistaking “their” for “there.” This signals the impoverishment of the right-wing Jewish assault. Petra the Pitiful & all her Jewish Conan Doyle’s have unmasked me for the Arab-loving, unlettered English speaker that I am. I’ll simpy have to retire from the field with my tail between my legs.
BTW, neither Petra nor Gabor have ever made a typo in their lives because they’re simply far superior human beings that the rest of us illiterate progressives who can’t speak the King’s English.
Does it tell you something when Petra, Gabor and Alex Stein each feel the need to write “sic” after my mistake & point it out to the world as if this is a game in which they score points for detecting my mistakes.
And thanks Gaby for the Jewish anti-Semite thing. It’s only been tried here about 30-40 times before. You’re quite original I must say. Major violation of my comment rules though & you’ve already been banned. Come back when you’ve been house-trained & know something about the rules of derech eretz (common decency).
And the “stinkin’ asshole” thing…that’s brilliant invective too. Really original.
Richard – before you start lumping me in with Petra and Gabor, I should point out that it’s fairly standard practice to put ‘sic’ after an error in a quoted piece of text. If I wanted to spend my time pointing out your grammatical errors, I really wouldn’t get any work done.
@Alex Stein: Actually, “it’s fairly standard practice” in political discourse to add “sic”s when someone whose views you oppose makes grammatical, typographical or linguistic errors of one kind or another. It generally indicates a certain level of hostility to the person whose error you’re pointing out or at least to their ideas. Though yes, there may be instances in which academics and the like insert “sic”s without indicating any judgment on the text on which they’re commenting. That was not the case here, I believe.
The fact that you’ve inferred that my work is riddled with grammatical errors is a snarky comment which merely confirms what I wrote above though I know you thought it was witty & cute.
It’s great that you can now read my mind. Aren’t you supposed to wait for my confession that I did it because I wanted to ridicule you before accusing me?
@Alex Stein: I actually didn’t mind what you did as much as I minded what the other a(&%#)e did along w. Petra. The only attention you drew to the typo was the “sic.” Frankl tried to make a federal case out of it, which annoyed me no end.
I didn’t say you did it because you wanted to ridicule me. That’s too strong a statement. You did it because you wanted to point out that I make mistakes.
Personally, I only use “sic” when a commenter has made many errors in a comment AND the errors and the argument are annoying the hell out of me. I never use “sic” when someone has made a single error and esp. not when it’s clearly a typo rather than a more serious error. That’s why I added yr name to the other 2 in my comment. I thought it was a bit of a cheap shot. But I never would’ve brought it up unless Ol’ Gaby hadn’t jumped on it.
Clearly that little typo is the shot heard round the pro-Israel world.
@Alex Stein: You haven’t quoted the statement you’re referring to so I’m not sure what you’re correcting. I don’t believe I ever said the surviving terrorist attacked Chabad House.
I think I’ve got confused: is your whole thesis that this is solely an anti-Israeli attack based on the phone conversation with the terrorist in Chabad House, or with the testimony of the surviving terrorist?
@Alex Stein: I think I see where the confusion crept in & perhaps it IS my fault. The surviving terrorist, who was not at Chabad House, told police that the attack was meant to avenge Palestinian suffering. The Forward article about the Indian Jew who stayed on the phone for several hours with the Chabad House attacker only indicated that the latter wanted to talk to Indian officials about his demands. The article didn’t indicate that he made anti-Semitic statements.
I spent more than a decade in working in Arab and Muslim countries. I also concentrated in Jewish studies at Harvard until I realized that the permissible range of opinion did not really correspond to the facts.
Late 19th and early 20th century anti-Semitism was invariably distinguished from so-called traditional Judeophobia by the inclusion of biological determinist or of social Darwinist ideas.
Depending on where in the Muslim world one researches the issue, one will find the equation of Zionism to French colonialism in Algeria, Indian oppression in Kashmir or Russian exansionism into the Caucasus and Central Asia. If one speaks with an Arab or Muslim educated in the USa, he or she may use Southern Slavery as the comparison point.
Arab and Muslim hatred toward Zionism, the State of Israel and non-Israeli supporters of Zionism or the State of Israel really has little or no similarity to the anti-Semitism of the late nineteenth and early twentieth century.
As for my discussion of Lubavitcher politics, you can find it discussed even more harshly in most mainstream Israeli politics while the antics of American Jewish groups and ISNA at the recent Saudi interfaith conference were fully covered in the American Jewish Press.
If mentioning such material is incitement, then stating the facts is — as I have argued in the past — a form of anti-Semitism in the minds of a certain class of Israel-supporters.
In my blog entry Kovel Pulls No Punches I list some of the comments withn Kovel’s book Overcoming Zionism that occasioned charges of anti-Semitism especially from StandWithUs. These statements have no counterparts in the lore of modern anti-Semitism.
After reading The Resurgence of Anti-Semitism: Jews, Israel and Liberal Opinion by Bernard Harrison, I sent the author the email contained in Last Word on Anti-Semitism.
Because it was written in anger and haste, it does not fully reflect my position, which primarily criticizes Zionism for the damage that the Israel Lobby has inflicted on the American political system.
Yet, the letter does contain my view of anti-Semitism after 6 years at Harvard and Yale where I studied modern Jewish and E. European history as well as effectively 15 years of field work in Eastern Europe, the territories of the former Soviet Union, the Middle East, and SE Asia while I sold telecommunications and computer networking equipment and software in the aforementioned geographic regions.