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Pakistan, Failed State, and Its Role in Mumbai Terror
In light of newly emerging evidence that Kashmiri militants based in Pakistan perpetrated the Mumbai terror attacks, one has to ask whether Somalia is the only failed state in the region? Doesn’t the absolute chaos represented by Pakistan’s domestic situation represent a far greater danger not only to India and the subcontinent, but the world as well?
I’m puzzled by the response from Pakistan’s leaders to the Mumbai crimes. While they denounce the terror attacks, they also warn India not to “play politics” or “the blame game.” Either these politicians are utterly clueless, or they are perpetrating a cruel joke. They either do not know that possibly their own security apparatus helped plan these terror attacks or that at minimum Pakistani citizens did so; or they do know of Pakistan’s involvement and are pretending not to. Which is worse? For them to be powerless and impotent, or for them to be liars and hypocrites?
Returning to the danger represented by a lawless, out of control Pakistan: let’s leave aside its nuclear arsenal which could enter into the hands of Muslim militants. Let’s just focus on Pakistan’s support for the Taliban and for Kashmiri separatists. From bases on the Afghan frontier, the Taliban sows mayhem on a hapless Afghanistan seemingly powerless to protect or defend itself. Along the Indian frontier, militants sow mayhem remorselessly on Indian targets. How much of this can the region and the world take?
The most recent developments tarnish further the Bush Administration policy of attempting to engage Pakistan with carrots in a campaign to bring the Taliban presence in the border area under tighter control. In a country where there seems to be little or no central control regarding security issues, how could the U.S. expect to institute a strategy in partnership with local authorities when they seem riddled with confused loyalties?
I don’t envy the Obama Administration and the choices it will have to make regarding this regional mess. And you simply can’t turn your back on Pakistan as we did in Afghanistan after the Russians withdrew. That solution would be too dangerous and certainly come back to bite us badly. But if you decide to engage, how do you do so in a way that doesn’t make things worse? How do you do so in a way that allows us to pursue our own interests in stabilizing Afghanistan?
Clearly, it would be helpful if we could play some role in resolving the Kashmir dispute. But this is a conflict that has remained intractable for sixty years. What can we bring to the table that is new and that would attract both sides to reopen serious negotiations?
While there is no lack of blame to go around for Pakistan’s plight as a failed state and sponsor of state-condoned terrorism, we should remember that it was the Reagan Administration that built up the ISI and the Afghan mujahadeen in their proxy war against the Soviet presence. A good deal of the current instability in both Afghanistan and Pakistan can be laid at the U.S. doorstep.
Kirk said:
“Kashmiri separatists”
Kashmir was 77% Muslim in 1947, and it became part of India not because Kashmiri people agreed to join India. They didn’t want to be ruled by the Indians. Are they separatists or freedom fighters? Are Dalai Lama and his followers separatists or freedom fighters? As for Pakistan’s support for the Kashmiri separatists, it is just politics as usual. It isn’t like India wouldn’t do something like that, as evidenced by the Indian military personnel training of the Tibetan exiles in India.
“For them to be powerless and impotent, or for them to be liars and hypocrites?”
Musharaff is lucky to be alive as he was able to escape a few assassination attempts. Benazir Bhutto wasn’t so lucky. Pakistani troops were killed and buildings were blew up in Pakistan by PAKISTANI jihadis. Yes, Pakistan is a failed state.
John Dickerson said:
Why Mumbai? Terrorism Has Many Causes. Here’s One Of Them
by: Paul Rosenberg @ openleft.com
In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, Gallup International did a poll in 37 countries–including the US–asking how America should respond to the attacks. Should they/we respond with a military attack, or should they/we take a criminal justice approach–tracking down those responsible, extradicting them, and putting them on trial. Of the 35 nations, landslide majorities in 32 of them said that a criminal justice approach was best. The three others? Israel, the US, and… India.
This alone should have warned us not to take the path of war. Israel and India have both spent decades responding to Islamic terrorist threats with war. Hasn’t worked. But the more it doesn’t work, the more determined their people have become. Of course, they’ve also employed a criminal justice approach as well. But they’ve had their own Guantanamos come out of that, as well…….
ARTICLE-http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=544C07024EECDA61671C6E611E402ECE?diaryId=10192
John Dickerson said:
ENTIRE ROSENBERG ARTICLE -
http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=544C07024EECDA61671C6E611E402ECE?diaryId=10192
John Dickerson said:
Mumbai to Obama: End Bush’s War on Terror
Saturday 29 November 2008
by: Steve Weissman, t r u t h o u t | Perspective
The terrorist attacks in Mumbai call out to President-elect Barack Obama and his advisors to rethink the signature blunder of George W. Bush’s eight years in office - the so-called War on Terror. As US intelligence reports have made clear, the centerpiece of the supposed campaign against terror, the military occupation of Iraq, has increased the likelihood of more attacks like those in Mumbai, Madrid, London and Manhattan. The new escalation in Afghanistan will similarly increase terrorist attacks there, in neighboring India and Pakistan, in disputed Kashmir, and throughout the world.
Bush and Cheney chose the word “war” with malice aforethought. From the start, they intended a military response, first against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, and then against Saddam Hussein in Iraq. And, as Barton Gellman shows so brilliantly in his book “Angler,” Dick Cheney and his team consciously wanted to create a wartime presidency with enormous unchecked power and scant regard for basic American liberties……..
ENTIRE ARTICLE -
http://www.truthout.org/112908A
sanjay said:
My question is if being secular was not enough with Kahsmiri muslims then take all the 200 million muslims in Idina or so along with kashmir we will be glad to give up kashmir valley only not jammu and laddakh! any takers ?
Roy said:
Why “take all the 200 million muslims in Idina”? Muslims in India are as much patriotic Indians as any Hindu or Christian Indians? I am Hindu, but, I firmly believe, India’s heritage and culture is rich and vibrant, because of so much contributions from Indians of Islamic faith. it is really not fair to be-little one group of Indians just because of their religion. I think it is very demeaning, unproductive and deplorable. So, leave the Indian Muslims out of these game of finger pointing.
Richard Silverstein said:
@Roy: So true. There has been enough ethnic bloodshed against Muslims in India in recent years. They certainly have deep grievances that deserve to be addressed and are not. Perhaps the fact that they are not allows cynics to exploit such dissatisfaction through such horrible terror acts as this one.
But Hindus would be making a very big mistake if they blamed their own local Muslim population for this attack. I applaud Roy for his progressive perspective on this.
Vishakha said:
@richard silverstein,
you sound one of those from uk ? who first started this divide and rule policy,
and what do you know of history of India that you speak of recent times ? Its hindus who have been always at the receiving end of the terror from Islamists,and have reacted only when they are more than provoked or their patience and peaceful nature is being taken for granted as cowardice — if hindus would have been equally violent as muslims, you would not have seen any trace of pakistan or bangladesh or even a muslim any where in the continent, not to speak of britishers anywhere near either.
And if you feel so sympathetic to these monsters , why don’t you ask you revered country to grant refugee status to all these islamists in india, we would be more than happy to export this to you, free of cost, then you can have all the fun yourself.
here is something for your thought process, which i am sure is already messed up, but as every other hindu, i always try to be helpful, http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zaid+hamid+Brasstacks+on+mumbai+attacks+part+2&search_type=
Gitanjali said:
Pakistan is a failed state. Analysts have been claiming for months that the Pakistani government has no teeth and that true power lies within the Pakistani military. Obviously it would be in their best interests to perpetuate this archaic notion of a threat from India - Fareed Zakaria mentioned in recent interviews with Stephen Cohen and Ashley Tellis that he has spoken to military officials who have clearly stated their intentions of sewing instability in India and Afghanistan in order to alleviate a threat from these countries.
This is the most ridiculous strategy I have ever heard. As if being complicit to Taliban and Lashkar-E-Toiba bases in Pakistan is not going to evoke a response form these countries. India and Afghanistan won’t stand by as their countries are dissassembled by these barbarians.
I think one of the solutions to the end of this problem is to disband the ISI and remove the Pakistani military from the level of prestige that it now holds.
As for religious riots. Signs in Mumbai are currently disturbing, especially in the slums. I think that both communities need to be sensitive. While it is upto the Hindu community to protect the minority muslims in order to let them grieve along with the country, I also think that it is the responsibility of the Muslim community to hold back on the pro-Pakistan rhetoric. Moderate muslim voices need to speak out against the terror attacks.
balsunder said:
India should deploy the US tactic of drones to the POK as well as other terrorist camps. Employ in full. When US attacks from the west and India attacks from the east then Pakistan has to bend to the requirements of the international community. We do not consider your lip services. Wherever your Jihadis are we will follow them and destroy them. Forget about soverignity and nation state. When Pak government cant contain its Jihadis the world including India will take care. They will eliminate and culminate this Jihadi menace once for all. Wait for the news which is coming soon.
sanjay said:
Roy and Richard Have you lived in India with 50000 muslim around you ?
Ok let me give you the facts as to why I think that way. I posed the same question to a pakistani when he was harping about Kashmir only because it has a muslim majority!!!!! He kept quite.
I grew up in hazaribagh in south bihar with the “kasai mohalla” (Buther colony,10% muslim population ) just next door. We have schools that charge no fees but not more than 1% of the students were muslims. Instead they went to the Madrasa!
Every year there is a festival typical to Hazaribagh only its called Ram Navami- We have idols of Lord Rama in decorated truks going through the town in a prosession.Being a small town theres not much option but to take it infornt of atleast one mosque ! 1985 and 1986 while the prosession was passing one of the mosque someone from the building starting throwing stones at the Idols ! What does this act ask for ? and why ? on both the occasions the situation was controlled by the authorities but in 1989 during this festival those same bastards bombed a cinema when people were comming out of the hall. all those killed were villegers who come to town to enjoy a day of festivities …who were those bastards ? and why did they do it? I have seen the carnage and I have seen those bodies ..what happened next was thounds of muslims were massacared !!! I don’t want anyone to die but don’t start it because you don’t like idol worship !!!!!!
My father migrated to India alone at the age of 10 from bangladesh …during the 71 war ..what happened to my other relatives ? all dead and who did that ? we are originally from the sourthern coast of bangladesh where my grand father never saw a white britisher in his life and the pakistani soldiers never came there …they were all murdered by the local muslims …why ?
most people give their opinion based on imaginary things
-Marginalized , underpriviledged, no opportunities …etc etc ….. we have free schools where everyone is allowed no questions asked …ROY should know about this…Why is that none of the muslims want to go to school ? then how do you say they are marginalized ????????????????
Based on Gujarat people make their opinion especially the western people ..you just see th satistics … I do not condone the murders that happened there…. But have you walked through KALUPUR area of ahmedabad ? ok ask a brave christian or sikh or a hindu girl to walk thru that area alone and you follow …tell me what you see ….
Get to a another slum area .. laxminagar (Marathi hindu dominated area ) in mumbai let the girl pass through that area and tell me what you see…
Why is that when saddam hussien was hanged a handfull of muslims went through a ranmpage of public property in Udaipur in Rajasthan ? what was saddam to them ? I understand the anger of his followers in Iraq ..but why in India ? and they did not come out into the streets when Indira Gandhi was assasinated …???????
Should I tell you what happens infront of a television when India and Pakistan is playing a game of cricket in Kasai muhalla ..try clapping your hands when sachin hits a four or when kapil dev takes a pakistani wicket…. Being Muslim is their only commitment !!!! And I am sure many would agree.
I still want forgive and forget but why does a muslim child knows more about pakistan than India ??????????? why should not I tell them to go there ? Aren’t the british people sick of these british born pakistanis bombing their subways ?I least I am not telling to bomb them … haven’t they contributed to the UK ? You guys did not read the line ” if secularism is not an option in kashmir…” You would have known what I mean.
sanjay said:
Typo mistake 100% muslims !!
sanjay said:
h 50000 muslim around you ?
Ok let me give you the facts as to why I think that way. I posed the same question to a pakistani when he was harping about Kashmir only because it has a muslim majority!!!!! He kept quite.
I grew up in hazaribagh in south bihar with the “kasai mohalla” (Buther colony,10% muslim population ) just next door. We have schools that charge no fees but not more than 1% of the students were muslims. Instead they went to the Madrasa!
Every year there is a festival typical to Hazaribagh only its called Ram Navami- We have idols of Lord Rama in decorated truks going through the town in a prosession.Being a small town theres not much option but to take it infornt of atleast one mosque ! 1985 and 1986 while the prosession was passing one of the mosque someone from the building starting throwing stones at the Idols ! What does this act ask for ? and why ? on both the occasions the situation was controlled by the authorities but in 1989 during this festival those same bastards bombed a cinema when people were comming out of the hall. all those killed were villegers who come to town to enjoy a day of festivities …who were those bastards ? and why did they do it? I have seen the carnage and I have seen those bodies ..what happened next was thounds of muslims were massacared !!! I don’t want anyone to die but don’t start it because you don’t like idol worship !!!!!!
My father migrated to India alone at the age of 10 from bangladesh …during the 71 war ..what happened to my other relatives ? all dead and who did that ? we are originally from the sourthern coast of bangladesh where my grand father never saw a white britisher in his life and the pakistani soldiers never came there …they were all murdered by the local muslims …why ?
most people give their opinion based on imaginary things
-Marginalized , underpriviledged, no opportunities …etc etc ….. we have free schools where everyone is allowed no questions asked …ROY should know about this…Why is that none of the muslims want to go to school ? then how do you say they are marginalized ????????????????
Based on Gujarat people make their opinion especially the western people ..you just see th satistics … I do not condone the murders that happened there…. But have you walked through KALUPUR area of ahmedabad ? ok ask a brave christian or sikh or a hindu girl to walk thru that area alone and you follow …tell me what you see ….
Get to a another slum area .. laxminagar (Marathi hindu dominated area ) in mumbai let the girl pass through that area and tell me what you see…
Why is that when saddam hussien was hanged a handfull of muslims went through a ranmpage of public property in Udaipur in Rajasthan ? what was saddam to them ? I understand the anger of his followers in Iraq ..but why in India ? and they did not come out into the streets when Indira Gandhi was assasinated …???????
Should I tell you what happens infront of a television when India and Pakistan is playing a game of cricket in Kasai muhalla ..try clapping your hands when sachin hits a four or when kapil dev takes a pakistani wicket….
I still want forgive and forget but why does a muslim child knows more about pakistan than India ??????????? why should not I tell them to go there ? Aren’t the british people sick of these british born pakistanis bombing their subways ? Aren’t they patriotic enough ?? YOu have not read the line “If secularism is not an option”
sanjay said:
Roy and Richard Have you lived in India with 50000 muslim around you ?
Ok let me give you the facts as to why I think that way. I posed the same question to a pakistani when he was harping about Kashmir only because it has a muslim majority!!!!! He kept quite.
I grew up in hazaribagh in south bihar with the “kasai mohalla” (Buther colony,10% muslim population ) just next door. We have schools that charge no fees but not more than 1% of the students were muslims. Instead they went to the Madrasa!
Every year there is a festival typical to Hazaribagh only its called Ram Navami- We have idols of Lord Rama in decorated truks going through the town in a prosession.Being a small town theres not much option but to take it infornt of atleast one mosque ! 1985 and 1986 while the prosession was passing one of the mosque someone from the building starting throwing stones at the Idols ! What does this act ask for ? and why ? on both the occasions the situation was controlled by the authorities but in 1989 during this festival those same bastards bombed a cinema when people were comming out of the hall. all those killed were villegers who come to town to enjoy a day of festivities …who were those bastards ? and why did they do it? I have seen the carnage and I have seen those bodies ..what happened next was thounds of muslims were massacared !!! I don’t want anyone to die but don’t start it because you don’t like idol worship !!!!!!
My father migrated to India alone at the age of 10 from bangladesh …during the 71 war ..what happened to my other relatives ? all dead and who did that ? we are originally from the sourthern coast of bangladesh where my grand father never saw a white britisher in his life and the pakistani soldiers never came there …they were all murdered by the local muslims …why ?
most people give their opinion based on imaginary things
-Marginalized , underpriviledged, no opportunities …etc etc ….. we have free schools where everyone is allowed no questions asked …ROY should know about this…Why is that none of the muslims want to go to school ? then how do you say they are marginalized ????????????????
Based on Gujarat people make their opinion especially the western people ..you just see th satistics … I do not condone the murders that happened there…. But have you walked through KALUPUR area of ahmedabad ? ok ask a brave christian or sikh or a hindu girl to walk thru that area alone and you follow …tell me what you see ….
Get to a another slum area .. laxminagar (Marathi hindu dominated area ) in mumbai let the girl pass through that area and tell me what you see…
Why is that when saddam hussien was hanged a handfull of muslims went through a ranmpage of public property in Udaipur in Rajasthan ? what was saddam to them ? I understand the anger of his followers in Iraq ..but why in India ? and they did not come out into the streets when Indira Gandhi was assasinated …???????
Should I tell you what happens infront of a television when India and Pakistan is playing a game of cricket in Kasai muhalla ..try clapping your hands when sachin hits a four or when kapil dev takes a pakistani wicket….
I still want forgive and forget but why does a muslim child knows more about pakistan than India ??????????? why should not I tell them to go there ? Aren’t the british people sick of these british born pakistanis bombing their subways ? Aren’t they patriotic enough ?? YOu have not read the line “If secularism is not an option”
Ramond Sheffield said:
[comment deleted for violating comment rules]
Richard Silverstein said:
@balsunder: Your ideas are almost as insane as the terror attacks themselves. If you think this will solve your problem then you’re deluded.
Friend said:
What Sanjay wrote is 100% true!
All militants are muslims and most of the muslims are militants - may be not all!
withoutwits said:
@ Sanjay:
I truly empathize with Sanjay. My father also crossed borders at the time of separation in 1947 and lost family members and what not in ways which are better not be mentioned again. But I have Muslim friends who are loyal to India and there are those who think otherwise. The point I want to make is how long can we ask “eye for an eye”? It’s a vicious circle, which has to come to an end at some point. Only educated and cultured people can make it happen. After all we are humans. Let’s try to at least be bit better than animals. The documentaries about the carnage in Gujarat were spine chilling. It was anybody’s guess that there would be retaliation. But this is no excuse for the amount of damage done in Mumbai attacks. However there has to be a beginning from somewhere/somebody. Having said that I strongly believe that India should use its military might to pull down the infrastructure where the planning and training for such attacks takes place.
We should not make opinion based on a small sample of Muslim population. By the way who really wants to go live in Pakistan anyways? They don’t have food to eat, houses to live. About the incidents which Sanjay has mentioned, are politically motivated in an incredibly poor country where people come to attend political rallies because they are paid Rs. 100 (approx $2.25) at the end of the day. It’s high time we broaden our horizons and focus on root cause and not start another war or help instigate another round of communal rights.
Lets us all try to be Humans. I hope some sanity prevails and all shall live in peace.
Vasu said:
It is pity to see every dumb head suggesting Hindus how to protect minorities. Before you suggest Hindus what to do, open the history books and read for a change.
Kashmir Hindus were slaughtered and the remaining have been living in tents in their own country. So, before you talk about Gujarat, you have moral obligation to talk about Kashmir Hindus. If not, shut the hell up.
Hindu temples were destroyed and ghost construction were built on top of the rubble. Revenues generated by Hindu temples have been used to construct Churches and Masques. If Hindus were not being big brother, this would not happen.
If Hindus were not being reasonable, we would not have a Muslim President, a Sikh Prime Minister and a Christian as the president of the biggest party in the country.
If your tongue is itchy to talk something, tell the Indian Muslims who is hosting Pakistan flags on Indian soil. Tell Indian Muslims who celebrate when Pakistan wins cricket match. Tell the Indian Muslims who does not want to sing national anthem.
Now it is time for Hindus to show the other side of Hinduism. Almost every Hindu god has a weapon in their and it is not for decoration. India belongs to Hindus and rest or guests. If someone wants peace, they better be friendly with Hindus. It cannot be other way around.
Richard Silverstein said:
@Vasu: Clearly, it’s not just extremist Jews who hate Muslims or Arabs. Hate, as I often write, knows no religious distinctions as this commenter makes clear.
Hari said:
These posts from some demons in India demonizing the whole muslim community is exactly the reason why the REAL issues don’t get highlighted because they get into this whole Hindu-Muslim thing which is irrelevant to the Mumbai attacks. Such views are also the reason why I have slowly started distancing myself from the BJP. These idiots don’t know where and when to stop with Hindutva. Only a very small fraction of the Muslim community is involved in violent extremism. But that is true of almost any country nowadays, not just India. The Mumbai attacks were perpetrated by Pakistan. Period. Call a spade a spade. Don’t blame the local muslims. India has homegrown terrorists too but we still have a fairly large number of moderate and nationalistic muslims than any country in the world. Many Muslims died in the terrorist attacks, bomb blasts in the country. They suffer just like all other Indians.
Vishakha S. said:
@hari
to each his own. period.
all this problem started because, Indian leaders like gandhi denied asserting hinduism as an identity of India as they sought more personal acceptance from other communities - read muslims. period.
Islam is basically a rogue community, show us one terrorist attack anywhere in the world where there is no islamic connection. muslims basically have no allegiance to any country, they are only muslims, so also follows with Indian muslims. Take a simple example — What happens during India - pak cricket matches, i have seen personally many many instances in different areas in India where the muslims fire crackers and cheer when the pakis win against India. What do you call this ? India should work hard to eliminate these mini pakistans emerging all across the breadth and length of India… and unless that happens, your future generations might have to live in peril, when seems to be the order of the day if Congress remains in power.period.