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	<title>Comments on: Judge Strikes Seattle Initiative-97 From Ballot</title>
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	<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/09/11/judge-strikes-seattle-initiative-97-from-ballot/</link>
	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/09/11/judge-strikes-seattle-initiative-97-from-ballot/comment-page-1/#comment-102855</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3980#comment-102855</guid>
		<description>@zinovy: You&#039;re just getting too weird &amp; bizarre.  I don&#039;t think we need to hear anymore from you.  Racism &amp; outright ugliness is definitely a bannable offense here &amp; you are banned.

Jews benefited from slaves?  What are you talking about?  There were hardly any Jews in this country when the slaves were emancipated.

Israeli settlers are there own killers for hire.  They don&#039;t need to hire out.  They breed their own &amp; do their own killings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@zinovy: You&#8217;re just getting too weird &#038; bizarre.  I don&#8217;t think we need to hear anymore from you.  Racism &#038; outright ugliness is definitely a bannable offense here &#038; you are banned.</p>
<p>Jews benefited from slaves?  What are you talking about?  There were hardly any Jews in this country when the slaves were emancipated.</p>
<p>Israeli settlers are there own killers for hire.  They don&#8217;t need to hire out.  They breed their own &#038; do their own killings.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/09/11/judge-strikes-seattle-initiative-97-from-ballot/comment-page-1/#comment-102853</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3980#comment-102853</guid>
		<description>@rlandes: Oh, please.  Just more blather about Arab deceit &amp; subterfuge.  MOdern polling techniques know how to account for all manner of dissembling among respondents.  They ask questions several diff. ways to ensure they are getting a candid response.  I trust well-constructed polls far more than I trust yr twisted interpretation of Islam.

Honor killing is a fact only in that it is a single event or series of discrete events that happen.  I would no more condemn all Muslims or all Arabs because of honor killing than I would condemn all of Judaism because Jews believed in stoning homosexuals or adulterers.  But hey, you&#039;re welcome to yr hate.  Glory in it.  It makes you strong (with bile).

To say that Arabs cannot rule themselves is yet another racist stereotype of which you seem replete.  If Israelis faced the same horrific conditions as Gazans, they&#039;d rule themselves equally badly I have no doubt.
&lt;blockquote&gt;22 arab countries, none of which even approach the minimal levels of democratic self-rule,&lt;/blockquote&gt;
You are SO BORING.  The 22 Arab countries enslaved by despotism &amp; the one shining beacon of liberty.  Ugh!  Don&#039;t you get tired of hearing yr own voice.  BTW, Lebanon is a democracy which you seem to have forgotten.  It&#039;s not functioning particularly well these days.  But considering its tragic history it&#039;s not doing too badly these days.  I guess you left Lebanon out because it was inconvenient to yr Arab bashing.

Israel&#039;s commitment to freedom of speech and the press &amp; rule of law is nothing like the way you paint it.  The Israeli press is subject to strict military censorship in certain situations.  The rule of law only applies in certain circumstances &amp; almost never when it regards the Territories &amp; Israeli behavior there.  So much for Israel&#039;s sterling democracy.  Not to mention Israeli Arabs being 2nd or 3rd class citizens because--well, they&#039;re not members of the superior class.

Racist ideologues like you always say things like: what if Israel gave those beasts everything they demanded &amp; they turned around &amp; decided to exterminate us.  It&#039;s a really winning, cogent argument.  Justifies not doing anything in response to the chance for peace.  So no, compromise is not nor ever can be error.  War is error.  Intransigence is error.  Racism is error.  You are error.

Israeli is not perfidious.  You are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@rlandes: Oh, please.  Just more blather about Arab deceit &#038; subterfuge.  MOdern polling techniques know how to account for all manner of dissembling among respondents.  They ask questions several diff. ways to ensure they are getting a candid response.  I trust well-constructed polls far more than I trust yr twisted interpretation of Islam.</p>
<p>Honor killing is a fact only in that it is a single event or series of discrete events that happen.  I would no more condemn all Muslims or all Arabs because of honor killing than I would condemn all of Judaism because Jews believed in stoning homosexuals or adulterers.  But hey, you&#8217;re welcome to yr hate.  Glory in it.  It makes you strong (with bile).</p>
<p>To say that Arabs cannot rule themselves is yet another racist stereotype of which you seem replete.  If Israelis faced the same horrific conditions as Gazans, they&#8217;d rule themselves equally badly I have no doubt.</p>
<blockquote><p>22 arab countries, none of which even approach the minimal levels of democratic self-rule,</p></blockquote>
<p>You are SO BORING.  The 22 Arab countries enslaved by despotism &#038; the one shining beacon of liberty.  Ugh!  Don&#8217;t you get tired of hearing yr own voice.  BTW, Lebanon is a democracy which you seem to have forgotten.  It&#8217;s not functioning particularly well these days.  But considering its tragic history it&#8217;s not doing too badly these days.  I guess you left Lebanon out because it was inconvenient to yr Arab bashing.</p>
<p>Israel&#8217;s commitment to freedom of speech and the press &#038; rule of law is nothing like the way you paint it.  The Israeli press is subject to strict military censorship in certain situations.  The rule of law only applies in certain circumstances &#038; almost never when it regards the Territories &#038; Israeli behavior there.  So much for Israel&#8217;s sterling democracy.  Not to mention Israeli Arabs being 2nd or 3rd class citizens because&#8211;well, they&#8217;re not members of the superior class.</p>
<p>Racist ideologues like you always say things like: what if Israel gave those beasts everything they demanded &#038; they turned around &#038; decided to exterminate us.  It&#8217;s a really winning, cogent argument.  Justifies not doing anything in response to the chance for peace.  So no, compromise is not nor ever can be error.  War is error.  Intransigence is error.  Racism is error.  You are error.</p>
<p>Israeli is not perfidious.  You are.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter D</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/09/11/judge-strikes-seattle-initiative-97-from-ballot/comment-page-1/#comment-102852</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3980#comment-102852</guid>
		<description>rlanders, so, your hypothetical that the Palestinian state will be a tyranny is a justification for denying them the state? What world are you living in? What if I kidnapped you, put you in chains my cellar and when claimed that you cannot not be let free because I have a suspicion that you might turn to be a very bad person indeed, how would you like it?
The fact is, Israel did occupy the Palestinian territories on these grounds (i.e., to prevent establishment of a tyrannical state). It is just a convenient red herring for you to switch the attention for the real reasons Israel occupies the territories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rlanders, so, your hypothetical that the Palestinian state will be a tyranny is a justification for denying them the state? What world are you living in? What if I kidnapped you, put you in chains my cellar and when claimed that you cannot not be let free because I have a suspicion that you might turn to be a very bad person indeed, how would you like it?<br />
The fact is, Israel did occupy the Palestinian territories on these grounds (i.e., to prevent establishment of a tyrannical state). It is just a convenient red herring for you to switch the attention for the real reasons Israel occupies the territories.</p>
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		<title>By: rlandes</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/09/11/judge-strikes-seattle-initiative-97-from-ballot/comment-page-1/#comment-102850</link>
		<dc:creator>rlandes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3980#comment-102850</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;@rlandes: I’m talking about facts, polls and quantifiable opinions and you’re talking about honor killing. It’s ridiculous. I’m not going to try to prove to you that Palestinians can rule themselves just as well as Israelis can rule themselves. I’ll leave you to bask in your racism and darkness. Reality will prove you wrong w/o my interference in yr blissful sleep of the politically obtuse. Sweet dreams of Arab perfidy.&lt;em&gt;

if you think that the data polling offers bears any relation to &quot;facts&quot; then you really are a naif, especially when those answering know that the question being asked has implications for how &quot;they&quot; are being viewed by those asking.  honor-killings, on the other hand, are &quot;facts&quot;, not only in that they occur (let&#039;s not try and quantify something that is popular but &quot;illegal&quot;), but in that they only occur where there is widespread communal support -- even demand -- for such an action.  so the existence, even at relatively low levels, speaks eloquently on a whole range of social and psychological factors.

you don&#039;t seem to think that you need to even discuss whether arabs can rule themselves just as the israelis can rule themselves. why is that? is it because with 22 arab countries, none of which even approach the minimal levels of democratic self-rule, and one jewish state which has exceptionally high levels of commitment to things like freedom of speech and press, elections, rule of law, etc., it&#039;s impossible to make that argument? or is it because you are so dogmatically committed to the &quot;equality of all cultures&quot; that you cannot even allow the possibilities of such cultural differences to enter the discussion?

is that why you prefer to heap abuse on my position as the thinking of a dark racism? what if reality proves &lt;em&gt;you&lt;/em&gt; wrong? what if israel were to give the palestinians everything beyond the green line and it led, not to a neighbor democracy, but to some kind of tyrannical theocracy (as we see in Gaza), which used scapegoating and war to distract its subjects from the oppression it brought them?  would you admit to error? or just blame the israelis in order to maintain your world view?

my guess is the latter, which is why you are not just naive, but aggressively so. sweet dreams of arab innocence and israeli perfidy. i guess sometimes it&#039;s just easier to hate your own side than look at the darkness next door.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>@rlandes: I’m talking about facts, polls and quantifiable opinions and you’re talking about honor killing. It’s ridiculous. I’m not going to try to prove to you that Palestinians can rule themselves just as well as Israelis can rule themselves. I’ll leave you to bask in your racism and darkness. Reality will prove you wrong w/o my interference in yr blissful sleep of the politically obtuse. Sweet dreams of Arab perfidy.</em><em></p>
<p>if you think that the data polling offers bears any relation to &#8220;facts&#8221; then you really are a naif, especially when those answering know that the question being asked has implications for how &#8220;they&#8221; are being viewed by those asking.  honor-killings, on the other hand, are &#8220;facts&#8221;, not only in that they occur (let&#8217;s not try and quantify something that is popular but &#8220;illegal&#8221;), but in that they only occur where there is widespread communal support &#8212; even demand &#8212; for such an action.  so the existence, even at relatively low levels, speaks eloquently on a whole range of social and psychological factors.</p>
<p>you don&#8217;t seem to think that you need to even discuss whether arabs can rule themselves just as the israelis can rule themselves. why is that? is it because with 22 arab countries, none of which even approach the minimal levels of democratic self-rule, and one jewish state which has exceptionally high levels of commitment to things like freedom of speech and press, elections, rule of law, etc., it&#8217;s impossible to make that argument? or is it because you are so dogmatically committed to the &#8220;equality of all cultures&#8221; that you cannot even allow the possibilities of such cultural differences to enter the discussion?</p>
<p>is that why you prefer to heap abuse on my position as the thinking of a dark racism? what if reality proves </em><em>you</em> wrong? what if israel were to give the palestinians everything beyond the green line and it led, not to a neighbor democracy, but to some kind of tyrannical theocracy (as we see in Gaza), which used scapegoating and war to distract its subjects from the oppression it brought them?  would you admit to error? or just blame the israelis in order to maintain your world view?</p>
<p>my guess is the latter, which is why you are not just naive, but aggressively so. sweet dreams of arab innocence and israeli perfidy. i guess sometimes it&#8217;s just easier to hate your own side than look at the darkness next door.</p>
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		<title>By: zinovy</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/09/11/judge-strikes-seattle-initiative-97-from-ballot/comment-page-1/#comment-102846</link>
		<dc:creator>zinovy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3980#comment-102846</guid>
		<description>Richard:

Thank you for the help in grammar.
Your language ability does not change the facts though.
Your ancestors crawled on their bellies and asked to be accepted as &quot;dhimmies&quot; into the American society. The American army and irregulars have just finished the genocide of the Mongoloid natives and &quot;Hiawatha sailed away&quot;. Your ancestors shed their names, language and pride and were allowed to settle on the land still red from blood and  salty from tears. They did benefit from slaves, wars and nukes. And you feel yourself clean and ready to preach.
But wait! The Mongoloids will take this land again. Perhaps by that time your grandgrandchildren will be assimilated well enough thanks to your efforts. Or they will become Sil Ver Man.
As for Jewish pioneers in Judea and Samaria they do not have mighty protection of the numerous killers-for-hire as you do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard:</p>
<p>Thank you for the help in grammar.<br />
Your language ability does not change the facts though.<br />
Your ancestors crawled on their bellies and asked to be accepted as &#8220;dhimmies&#8221; into the American society. The American army and irregulars have just finished the genocide of the Mongoloid natives and &#8220;Hiawatha sailed away&#8221;. Your ancestors shed their names, language and pride and were allowed to settle on the land still red from blood and  salty from tears. They did benefit from slaves, wars and nukes. And you feel yourself clean and ready to preach.<br />
But wait! The Mongoloids will take this land again. Perhaps by that time your grandgrandchildren will be assimilated well enough thanks to your efforts. Or they will become Sil Ver Man.<br />
As for Jewish pioneers in Judea and Samaria they do not have mighty protection of the numerous killers-for-hire as you do.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/09/11/judge-strikes-seattle-initiative-97-from-ballot/comment-page-1/#comment-102828</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3980#comment-102828</guid>
		<description>@zinovy: &lt;blockquote&gt;you (as the rulers of many kingdoms in the past&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I don&#039;t have a clue what you&#039;re talking about.  Are you claiming that Jews ruled many kingdoms in the past??  WHich ones besides their own &amp; even that one a millenia or so ago?

Personally, I think you&#039;re a raving lunatic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@zinovy:<br />
<blockquote>you (as the rulers of many kingdoms in the past</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a clue what you&#8217;re talking about.  Are you claiming that Jews ruled many kingdoms in the past??  WHich ones besides their own &#038; even that one a millenia or so ago?</p>
<p>Personally, I think you&#8217;re a raving lunatic.</p>
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		<title>By: zinovy</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/09/11/judge-strikes-seattle-initiative-97-from-ballot/comment-page-1/#comment-102818</link>
		<dc:creator>zinovy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3980#comment-102818</guid>
		<description>Richard:

You and your community live on an ethnically cleansed land.
It was a thorough job by people who allowed you (as the rulers of many kingdoms in the past) to come and settle in their new empire.

Your ancestors were ecstatic and even changed their name Zilbershtein to Silverstein (&quot;We are yours!&quot; they bowed to the Anglo-Saxon Americans) and they give you the name Richard. Many killers, land grabbers and slave owners were Richards too. It is not a Jewish name!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard:</p>
<p>You and your community live on an ethnically cleansed land.<br />
It was a thorough job by people who allowed you (as the rulers of many kingdoms in the past) to come and settle in their new empire.</p>
<p>Your ancestors were ecstatic and even changed their name Zilbershtein to Silverstein (&#8220;We are yours!&#8221; they bowed to the Anglo-Saxon Americans) and they give you the name Richard. Many killers, land grabbers and slave owners were Richards too. It is not a Jewish name!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/09/11/judge-strikes-seattle-initiative-97-from-ballot/comment-page-1/#comment-102761</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3980#comment-102761</guid>
		<description>@zinovy: &lt;blockquote&gt;You live on the land stolen from Amerindians who were compensated by death.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
You know just about nothing about American history or Jewish immigration to this country.

No, actually there was a monetary settlement with local Indian tribes over their claims regarding Seattle/Tacoma within the past 2 decades if I recall correctly.

My ancestors came to this country decades after Americans had done in the Native Americans.  I don&#039;t see myself or my ancestors as having any direct responsibility for what happened.  Though of course I believe that America as a nation does have a responsiblity to rectify past injustices.

Just as I believe that Israel has such an obligation which it has shirked.

The food I buy is largely produced by local farmers who earn a decent livelihood from the farmer&#039;s markets at which I shop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@zinovy:<br />
<blockquote>You live on the land stolen from Amerindians who were compensated by death.</p></blockquote>
<p>You know just about nothing about American history or Jewish immigration to this country.</p>
<p>No, actually there was a monetary settlement with local Indian tribes over their claims regarding Seattle/Tacoma within the past 2 decades if I recall correctly.</p>
<p>My ancestors came to this country decades after Americans had done in the Native Americans.  I don&#8217;t see myself or my ancestors as having any direct responsibility for what happened.  Though of course I believe that America as a nation does have a responsiblity to rectify past injustices.</p>
<p>Just as I believe that Israel has such an obligation which it has shirked.</p>
<p>The food I buy is largely produced by local farmers who earn a decent livelihood from the farmer&#8217;s markets at which I shop.</p>
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