UN Demands $1-Billion for Israeli Damage During Lebanon War « Tikun Olam-תיקון עולם: Make the World a Better Place

UN Demands $1-Billion for Israeli Damage During Lebanon War

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Tags: lebanon-war, United Nations

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65 Responses to “UN Demands $1-Billion for Israeli Damage During Lebanon War”

Richard Silverstein says:

September 9, 2008 at 8:21 PM

@Mona: So are you claiming that you don’t disagree w. my views & are not critical of them despite the fact that you have been? If that’s so, then why did you object to a blog post noting that Israel would be presented with a bill to clean up an environmental disaster it created? Do you agree that Israel should be responsible for this?

And do please tell me one thing about my views you agree with. I’d really like to know.

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 9, 2008 at 8:26 PM

@Benjamin Bratt: These arguments, besides being non sequiturs, are retreads of the same arguments you’re regurgitating ad nauseum fr. other threads. The Arabs are bad. The Arabs are corrupt. The Arabs are murderers. Blah, blah, blah.

For this reason, this is your last comment in this thread. If you attempt to post again in this thread yr comment privileges may be revoked since you’ve already violated this request in another thread.

Are you trying to insinuate that the UN is not an anti Israeli organization

I’m not insinuating it. I’m saying it. Right out loud. To the pro settler, Likud crowd to which you belong the UN is a cesspool of hate. But alas that reality isn’t shared by many outside of yr little cabal.

All of yr other arguments have nothing at all directly to do with the Israeli attack on the Lebanese oil refinery.

I react to commenters according to the approach they take to me. You’ve been hostile, snarky & insulting since Day 1. So don’t expect coddling for that.

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Lior says:

September 9, 2008 at 11:31 PM

I ACCEPT!!!
lets meet here again in 28 days and one of two things are sure to happen

The bill has been presented which would make you the equivalent of that guy from that tv show who received every morning tomorrows newspaper. The post will become truth from a prophet and you will bask in the ultimate reward of being right.

or

A bill has not been presented and you will eat your hat and apologize to me and everyone else whom you took on your little expedition of fiction

you know, its when supporters of the palestinian agenda start to talk to me about “life and death” in order to justify their inaccuracies and lies that I start to dig into my own believes. Are you really saying that I as an inteligent grown up person should consider that in an important issue that is a life and death situation TO ME MY DEAR FRIEND! NOT TO YOU SITTING THOUSAND OF MILES AWAY FROM ME! TO ME! I should consider accepting your little lies as being something to overlook just becasue it serves your bigger “life and death” agenda?

moderate this comment as you like, it says more about you than me etc. etc.

Lior

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 10, 2008 at 1:04 AM

@Lior:

I should consider accepting your little lies

You seem to have a serious problem not being able to distinguish between a minor error and a lie. They are quite different.

I am not a liar. I do not allow ANYONE to call me one. You have been banned for violating my comment rules.

I find it interesting that this commenter began his first discussion at the Israel Palestine Forum pretending to be a dispassionate seeker after truth. We can see right here how fake that disguise was.

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kwc says:

September 10, 2008 at 5:20 AM

Its okay. The US will cough it up with some of our freshly printed “funny money”. Don’t worry Israel. We are always there for our “ally” in the middle east. If I were Israel, I’d be looking for a new sugar daddy, since the old buck ain’t worth what it used to be. That may be a tough one…

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rundmc says:

September 10, 2008 at 2:31 PM

Richard wrote:
No, bombing civlian power plants is a violation of international law. And I didn’t realize that you were an Israeli general & so capable of expounding at length about what Israel’s tactics should or should not be.

My response 2 Richard-
There is no international law that makes bombing civilian power plants in a time of war an illegal violation. No such law exists and I challenge you to cite it – for times of war. The simple reason being that the enemy can always take advantage of such facilities (civilian or not) to keep waging war against the opposing country.

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Jessica S says:

September 10, 2008 at 4:33 PM

Mr. Richard Silverstein -

You seem to have a serious problem not being able to distinguish between a minor error and a lie. They are quite different.
I am not a liar. I do not allow ANYONE to call me one.

If this is so… it would seem rather ironic considering you routinely call and name other people liars for no other reason other than a seeming affinity you have to label others… which would make this statement incredibly hypocritical

You have been banned for violating my comment rules.

Even all the more so.

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 10, 2008 at 6:24 PM

@rundmc: Yes there is. This is from Crimes of War, a website devoted to discussion of the Geneva Conventions as they apply to war situations:

The contemporary rule defining military objects is found in the Additional Protocol I of 1977. Article 52 limits attacks to places, localities, facilities, structures, and “objects which . . . make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.” However, the rules provide specific immunity for certain individuals and localities. First, the civilian population must never be the object of attack, making it clear that morale or terror-bombing tactics are clearly a war crime today. Civilian objects used for peaceful purposes, are also protected. But the new rules go further by providing that in cases of doubt whether certain objects normally used for civilian purposes are being used to help the military mission, thereby losing their protection from attack, a presumption shall be made that it is not so used.

A civilian power plant or oil refinery which provides almost all the oil or power for an entire city fits comfortably under the latter definition as something off limits for attack.

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 10, 2008 at 6:27 PM

@Jessica S: I use the term “lie” or “liar” only when it is justified. I always provide proof of my charge. I would challenge you to find a single instance in which I used the term & did not provide evidence. Whether or not you would accept my evidence is another story & entirely irrelevant to my concerns.

Not only that, but Lior called me a liar when what I had done wasn’t even close to being a lie. He never provided any evidence that my post contained a lie or I was a liar. I would challenge you to find anything supporting his claim that I lied.

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Chaim says:

September 10, 2008 at 8:24 PM

Read Lebanese blogs. As much as some hate Israel, they mostly blame Hezbollah for the disaster. LET HIZBULLAH PAY FOR THE DAMAGES ITS ACTIONS INFLICTED ON LEBANON AND ON ISRAEL!!!!

But, then again, as some people frequenting here or writing for this blog will attest, the Zionist Entity is to blame for everything that ails this world. Ain’t that right?

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 10, 2008 at 8:32 PM

@Chaim: I do read Lebanese blogs, far more often than you. For you to say that they “mostly blame Hezbollah for the disaster” shows you’re only reading the selected blogs that reflect yr pt of view. Every Lebanese blog that I’ve read–& I’ve read blogs fr. every ethnic group–blame Israel far more than Hezbollah. Certainly some Lebanese blogs detest Hezbollah. But they detest Israel far more.

Only a member of the Israel uber Alles crowd would claim w. a straight face that Hezbollah was responsible for the damage Israel inflicted on Lebanon.

The bullshit about the “Zionist entity” is yet another pathetic attempt at “wit” by an Israel Firster who doesn’t even bother to read enough of this blog to realize that it SUPPORTS Israel (though not with the type of uncritical, knee-jerk support Chaim demands).

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Sammy says:

September 11, 2008 at 6:28 AM

Richard Silverstein, I’m a lurker here, too, and it’s hilarious to see how you demonize anyone who dares to challenge you — and even more hilarious when, like a child, you toss out that “banning” card like you’re a ref on the soccer field.

How anyone could take you seriously I don’t know.

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rundmc says:

September 11, 2008 at 9:34 AM

Richard quoted:

But the new rules go further by providing that in cases of doubt whether certain objects normally used for civilian purposes are being used to help the military mission, thereby losing their protection from attack, a presumption shall be made that it is not so used.

=======================

My response to Richard:

Your quote in italics is only for cases in doubt.

There is no reason to doubt that Hezbollah was using a major civilian power plant to help wage war on Israel’s citizens. This makes the power plant a legitimate target. The longer it can be utilized in any way imaginable by Hezbollah to kill Israelis, the greater the death toll for Hezbollah targets. This is basic military 101. And this is why any report claiming the Jiyeh bombing to be a war crime – or any body like the UN that attempts to make this ridiculous claim – should not be taken seriously.

Look, I say let the UN further disgrace and embarass itself by wasting more of its time targeting Israel (while ignoring greater crimes on the planet) only to have this backfire on them when it’s proven that Israel hit a legitimate target in a time of war. Israel will not – and should not – pay a dime.

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Acai Berri says:

September 11, 2008 at 10:34 AM

If I were the PM of Israel, I would agree to pay the one billion dollars if the UN enforced resolution 1701.
The Resolution demands:

Full cessation of hostilities (OP1)
Israel to withdraw all of its forces from Lebanon in parallel with Lebanese and UNIFIL soldiers deploying throughout the South (OP2)
Hezbollah to be disarmed (OP3) !!!!!!!!!
Full control of Lebanon by the government of Lebanon (OP3) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No paramilitary forces, including (and implying) Hezbollah, will be south of the Litani River (OP8). !!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Resolution at the same time also emphasizes:

The need to address urgently the unconditional release of the abducted Israeli soldiers, that have given rise to the current crisis.

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 11, 2008 at 11:55 AM

@Sammy: There are 11,000 comments in this blog, at least half of which “dare to challenge me.” The opponents who have an axe to grind, are disingenuous, use insults, etc. are a fraction of those, which means there are many challengers who have their say & are not responded to harshly. If someone comes here full of snark as you have, they’ll be met w. similar response. If they don’t, they won’t.

I’m always amused by disingenuous people like you who take the time to “lurk” here & then publish comments, but who then claim they don’t take this blog seriously enough to actually read it & publish a comment here. Why else would you be here?

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 11, 2008 at 12:26 PM

@rundmc:

There is no reason to doubt that Hezbollah was using a major civilian power plant to help wage war on Israel’s citizens.

Even you concede it was a CIVILIAN power plant. Hence there is no doubt that it was a “civilian object.” The fact that Hezbollah may have been using a small fraction of the electricity to power a computer or some other object that may’ve been used in its battle against Israel does not turn the plant into a military object.

I’ll tell you what: if you agree that the international court should bring a case against Israel for violating laws of war in this case to determine whether the plant is or is not a civilian object, then I’ll agree if Israel is found innocent that I’ll oppose the $1 billion penalty. No doubt, you oppose Israel being put in such a position (though I’m sure you’d be more than happy were Hezbollah placed in it). As opposed to you, I’m in favor of both sides being brough to justice for their crimes. This points out the absolute bankruptcy of your moral & legal position.

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rundmc says:

September 12, 2008 at 5:50 AM

Richard,

I have no problem with both Israel and Hezbollah being held accountable so there is no moral or legal bankruptcy for my position. If anything, I have yet to see you make a case for Hezbollah being held criminally responsible for anything.

I also agree it’s a civilian power plant, but that makes no difference in this case. The fact remains Israel committed no war crime by taking out the power plant. In times of war, if the opposing enemy uses civilian facilities, it’s LEGAL to attack that facility so long as the ‘cost’ of doing so (civilian lives) isn’t disproportionate. Else, the enemy could ALWAYS hide or use civlians and their facilities and COUNT on never being attacked. No such law, as you believe it to be, exists for the simple reason that if it did, DEFENDING against enemies using civilians would be IMPOSSIBLE.

This is why when the UN issues such rulings, or when human rights agencies make such accusations – that they cannot be taken seriously.

Israel simply will not pay a dime because no one will ever be able to show Israel broke any international law by bombing that power plant (civilian or not). Israel bombed civilian bridges as well to inhibit Hezbollah’s movement and rearming by Syria/Iran – for the EXACT reason they bombed the power plant. Israel would have been stupid NOT to do so – hence, there is no such law that criminalizes such an act.

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 12, 2008 at 11:46 AM

@rundmc:

I have yet to see you make a case for Hezbollah being held criminally responsible for anything.

You are entirely ignorant of what I’ve said on the subject & have done no research before making such a statement. Do yrself a favor & do some next time so you don’t have to make statements that are so lacking in credibility.

I also agree it’s a civilian power plant, but that makes no difference in this case. The fact remains Israel committed no war crime by taking out the power plant

So let’s see. You’re an expert of the law of war because of what particular expertise? I’ve quoted a major legal resource on the subject which clearly supports my contention. And you’re quoted…yrself! Well, you’ll have to allow us to have quite a bit of skepticism on yr position.

Israel simply will not pay a dime because no one will ever be able to show Israel broke any international law by bombing that power plant (civilian or not). I

So you’re willing to say explicitly that you’re prepared for Israel to face such a charge before an international tribunal as long as it has the right to put its defense forward? And you’re willing to accept a ruling that disagrees with yr. position? Or is all you’re doing mouthing off by making a claim & then not willing to stand behind it by allowing it to be tested in a court of law??

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Saint Michael Traveler says:

September 12, 2008 at 11:48 AM

Just Compensation:
Should Iraqi people demand compensation from USA for our attack on their country, killing their people and destroying their nation?

Kuwait and Iran both have demanded compensation from Iraq for the damages and death imposed on their countries. Are they receiving compensation? Have not Jewish people been receiving compensation from Germany for Hitler’s period of slaughter and economic damages?

World should use the World Court and the United Nations to resolve grievances and conflicts among nations. War is just too uncivilized!

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rundmc says:

September 12, 2008 at 12:38 PM

Richard,

You quoted from a major legal resource but that does NOT “clearly” support your contention that Israel committed war crimes by bombing the Jiyeh plant. It’s only illegal when there is DOUBT that the enemy is using civilian resources. There was no doubt about the power plant, or the civilian bridges that were bombed. Both were being utilized by Hamas.

If that’s the best you’ve got, it doesn’t at all clearly support your contention nor that of the UN or any human rights orgs.

I say bring on this phony charge. It won’t stand up as there exists no international law in the books that condemns Israel’s actions against the power plant. Oh yeah…and so long as the court is comprised of judges from western democratic nations, I’ll go along with their ruling. To be lectured and charged by judges from nations who have horrendous human rights records (like Syria, Cuba, N.Korea, Libya, etc..) is a joke, and we all know it.

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 13, 2008 at 2:09 AM

@rundmc: You didn’t read either what I quoted or the website. It says that it is a violation of international law to attack a “civilian object” even if there is a contention that the object MIGHT have a military use. The fact that some small percentage of the power generated might have been used by Hezbollah has NO bearing on its status as a civilian object. If Hezbollah had it own personal power plant that only supplied power for its military operations, then such an attack might be justified. But that’s not the case here.

Additionally, an eminent professor of environmental conservation who specializes in the Exxon Valdex disaster, also argues in this letter to Condi Rice that the bombing WAS a war crime.

Both were being utilized by Hamas.

Hamas? What are you talking about? I’m talking about the Lebanon war. Hamas?

OK. Let it be known to one & all that Rundmc accepts the jurisdiction of the international court to judge whether or not Israel’s attack on Beirut’s power plant was a violation of the laws of war. Now, since you know so much about the laws of war (!) maybe you’ll persuade Israel allow you to represent it! That would be fun to watch. Do me a favor though & make sure you don’t charge Hamas with war crimes in this case since the judges will wonder whether you’ve lost your mind.

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Leroidavid says:

September 15, 2008 at 5:23 AM

Who will pay for Lebanese crimes against humanity?

For the indiscriminate bombing of Israeli civilians by Lebanese terrorists for the past 30 years?

For the destructions of more than 1000 houses in northern Israel in the 2006 war?

For the large forest fires in the 2006 war, which burned more than 100.000 trees in northern Israel?

Not to mention for the economic loss for millions of civilians in Israel?

It was Lebanon that attacked Israel.

Lebanon shall be condemned to pay billions to Israel.

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Jane says:

September 15, 2008 at 5:49 AM

You seem determined to put Israel in the wrong Richard. Why is that?

Why are you pleased to see that a demand is made for Israel to pay for a war started by a militia in another country which peppered its civilians with 40 huge missiles, kidnapped two soldiers in Israel’s sovereign territory and then ambushed those who followed in hot pursuit?

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 15, 2008 at 12:10 PM

@Jane: Uh, maybe because the evidence convincingly puts Israel in the wrong.

I’ve never denied the wrongs committed by Hezbollah & said they should be held accountable for them. But unlike you, I’ve never denied Israel’s wrongs either.

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 15, 2008 at 12:12 PM

@Leroidavid: OK, here’s my proposition. Israel agrees to adjudication for criminal and financial claims by both sides by the international court. Do you accept? I didn’t think so. Because you know that the damages inflicted on Israel are far lighter than those inflicted on Lebanon. The price Israel will have to pay will be far heavier.

I’m all in favor of allowing Israel to make a claim against Hezbollah as long as Israel agrees to pay any verified claim against itself. How ’bout you?

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Jane says:

September 15, 2008 at 1:17 PM

I wrote three lines about why it’s obvious that Hizbullah started the war and you know so much about me that you say I denied Israel’s wrongs. What are you, a clairvoyant?

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 15, 2008 at 9:39 PM

@Jane: Might that be because in your comment you only referenced Hezbollah’s misdeeds & never mentioned any misdeeds on the part of Israel? I can only read what you put on the pg. & judge you based on that. I don’t claim to know what’s in yr mind if you don’t reveal it. So next time if you want to reveal yr full views on the subject do so & I’ll respond accordingly.

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Jane says:

September 15, 2008 at 11:16 PM

I expected to read, in your introduction to this subject, a balanced discussion of whether Israel or Hezballah were either of them to blame for natural disasters caused by the war and whether the UN would be justly claiming compensation from Israel only and not from both parties. Instead I found rejoicing that Israel, in effect, was being punished.

The spillage of oil is an ecological nuisance though the proportions hardly equal that of the Exxon Valdez. I wonder that the destruction of huge reaches of forest in Israel, planted to change the climate and the local ecology and that had succeeded in dropping the average local temperature several degrees, was not also seen in the same light. These forests had housed indigenous animals, lured back slowly and with great love and patience by the forest rangers, animals hunted almost to extinction and dying out because their environment had been made barren by the black goats’ habits of eating at the roots of the plant. Despite the dangers of the Hezballah missiles rangers had risked their lives attempting to put out fires and to help the animals terrified by the noise and destruction to reach sanctuary.

I was pleased to see that there was much objection to your one-sided attitude. Justice is not dead in our world.

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Richard Silverstein says:

September 15, 2008 at 11:43 PM

@Jane:

The problem is that some readers like you “expect” things of me & you’re bound to be disappointed since I’m not prepared to embrace yr expectations. There are 2,000 posts in this blog. Some of them deal with Hezbollah. Some of them describe my views of their behavior during the Lebanon war. Before being disappointed by my not fulfilling yr “expectations” you should do a keyword search and try to discover what I’ve written on the subject.

FAR more damage was done to Lebanon & Lebanese by Israel than the other way around. Should Hezbollah be liable for the damage it caused? By all means. Should Israel? By all means. But let’s keep things in perspective. Hezbollah killed 150 Israelis & Israel killed 1,000 Lebanese. Israel caused multiple billions of dollars to Lebanese infrastructure from Beirut throughout the territory south of it. The damage caused to Israel, while not insignificant, pales in comparison.

A massive environmental catastrophe is not a “nuisance.” It is a disaster. Have you read the report I linked by environmental expert Richard Steiner? If not, do so before you attempt to make judgments on this matter. Steiner is one of the world’s foremost experts on the Exxon Valez disaster. Steiner is the one who says that the Lebanon spill is not just an environmental disaster but a war crime. Try arguing with that.

All of us value forests. But I find it slightly odd you would be so deeply concerned about keeping Israelis in northern Israel cool after entire neighborhoods of Beirut and scores of other villages in the south of Lebanon were literally razed to the ground. Not a word of sympathy for the singeing heat those bombs caused as they incinerated buildings containing real human beings??

All of us value the wildlife of northern Israel and decry damage to its habitat. But not a word of sympathy for the thousands of Lebanese civilian human beings killed or maimed by the Israeli attack?? Do you have yr priorities straight??

I marvel at the “balance” you show by claiming Israeli wildlife habitats were reduced to cinders in an environmental cataclysm while only conceding that Lebanon suffered a “nuisance.”

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Jane says:

September 16, 2008 at 3:54 AM

Silverstein has such expectations of his correspondents that I wonder that anybody bothers.
Mention one facet and he marvels that you do not mention another.
Congratulations to those who put up with this petty tyrant. I will no longer do so.

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