I come back with support for my assertion about Hezbollah as a narcoterrorist organization

I didn’t know “Cannabis News” or whatever yr source was called was as reputable a source as the Guardian, Independent, NY Times, etc. But now that you vouch for it, I simply don’t know how I could’ve ever gotten it into my head to question where the unverified statements came from. How silly of me to have any concerns about the validity of the “evidence” presented.

In your eyes, is the US Dept of Justice “highly partisan” for these purposes

The U.S. Justice Dept. highly partisan?? Of course not. How could anyone think such a thing?

it is profoundly ignorant to encourage negotiations with Hezbollah while knowing nothing of how Hezbollah supports itself.

Let’s see. You consider me “profoundly ignorant.” I consider myself a pragmatist willing to negotiate with those movements & nations in conflict with Israel in order to ensure Israel’s future. Aw shucks, I AM just profoundly ignorant. You were right all along. Fuck Hezbollah. Let ‘em go to hell for all you & I care (now I’m on yr side–get it). Peace? Who gives a crap about peace. Israel can live by the barrel of a gun quite nicely. Isn’t that how the line goes? I just want to be sure I’m getting it right. You’ll surely tell me if I’ve tripped up on anything.

Seriously, I’m for resolving the Israel-Lebanon conflict which means negotiating with Hezbollah. I could care less what you think about me or my views on this issue.

I don’t know what other force has kidnapped and murdered a UN peacekeeper other than Hezbollah, do you?

What about bombing clearly marked UN installations & killing UN personnel practically in cold blood. Terror or a justified act of war on Israel’s part? And Israel has done this not once, but several times.

And are you arguing that the only act that can justifiably be called terror in the Lebanese context is the murder of a UN officer? I guess that disqualifies Sabra & Shatilla, doesn’t it?

Richard, you are as much a Zionist as that person who would call themselves a vegetarian while regularly consuming animal flesh.

This is a clear violation of my comment rules. I am a progressive Zionist & do not countenance any commenter even coming close to calling me an anti-Zionist or placing me outside the Zionist movement. Since you have banned me from the camp, I have banned you from commenting at this blog.

***
@neurodoc: You openly confess to ignorance about Hezbollah.
@RS: No, now you’re lying. I didn’t confess to ignorance of Hezbollah. I confessed to ignorance of their sources of funding. That’s different. I’m not an intelligence agent & unlike you I don’t have any learned background that would allow me to know first hand how they finance their work (but of course you have impeccable sources that allow you to know this).

OK, I’ll amend “openly confess to ignorance” to “openly, and unapologetically, display ignorance” about Hezbollah. And it is profoundly ignorant to encourage negotiations with Hezbollah while knowing nothing of how Hezbollah supports itself. [You told me in a private email that you can't abide snark and snideness, but you seem unable to avoid them, e.g., "I'm not an intelligence agent & unlike you I don’t have any learned background that would allow me to know first hand how they finance their work (but of course you have impeccable sources that allow you to know this)."]

*****
@RS: This tragic incident (LTC Higgins, UNFIL) happened 20 yrs ago… But are you claiming that other forces in didn’t engage in the same or worse acts of terror?

Yes, that particular one happened 20 or so years ago. I will happy, though, to enumerate a great many more similarly barbarous Hezbollah crimes before and since then. (Do you think Hezbollah has become less inclined to terrorism of various sorts over the course of time?) And as for “the same or worse acts of terror,” I don’t know what other force has kidnapped and murdered a UN peacekeeper other than Hezbollah, do you?

*****
Some think that to be a true vegetarian one must eschew any food that has an animal source, including milk and eggs. Others think it is enough not to eat meat or fish. Now, anyone can define vegetarianism any way they like and call themselves a vegetarian. If they eat a beef steak several times a week, though, they are only deluding themselves if they count themselves a vegetarian, reasoning that they qualify as one because they do not consume meat at every meal. Richard, you are as much a Zionist as that person who would call themselves a vegetarian while regularly consuming animal flesh.

(Why shouldn’t a fair-minded person see you as an “anti-zionist,” like many of those who commend you on your commentary? Is it because you so insistently declare yourself a “progressive Zionist” and get angry with those who would challenge your bona fides as such?)

*****
@RS: “Arguing with you is pointless.”

That’s funny coming from someone who refuses to entertain evidence that conflicts with his belief system; doesn’t stick to substantive argument for very long; regularly serves up snark and snideness along with ad hominems; brands those who would answer his attacks on Israel and Jews as “right-wingers;” and otherwise avoids intellectual engagement.

You openly confess to ignorance about Hezbollah

No, now you’re lying. I didn’t confess to ignorance of Hezbollah. I confessed to ignorance of their sources of funding. That’s different. I’m not an intelligence agent & unlike you I don’t have any learned background that would allow me to know first hand how they finance their work (but of course you have impeccable sources that allow you to know this).

The reason this doesn’t obsess me as it does you is because I’m not willing to moralize about these things when Israel’s acts in Lebanon in 2006 far outstrip any possible immorality that Hezbollah may engage in to fund itself.

When presented with evidence that Hezbollah is an enemy of democratic reform in Lebanon,

No, now you’re changing the terms of the argument which you yrself established. You originally claimed that no Lebanese could speak against Hezbollah w/o being offed for their trouble. I correctly disputed that. Now, you’re backtracking & claiming that what you really meant was that Hezbollah was an enemy of democratic reform. THose are entirely diff. claims though I wouldn’t’ expect you to acknowledge this.

I favor the March 14th coalition & wish it could govern the country w/o Hezbollah participation. Unfortunately, Hezbollah (in part because Israel has turned it into heroes of the resistance) has enough political & military power to prevent March 14th from governing w/o its participation. Do I like the fact that Hezbollah bested the March 14th forces in the recent Beirut shootout? No. But am I willing to see Lebanon go up in a civil war just so one side or the other can come out ahead by eliminating the power of opposing ethnic groups? No. And in fact, Hezbollah after winning the shootout could’ve taken over the entire city if it chose. But guess what? It didn’t. After a few days its fighters melted back into the woodwork & let things return more or less to status quo ante. That’s a mite inconvenient to yr theory of Hezbollah as murderous exterminating thugs, isn’t it?

It really stinks that Hezbollah is as powerful as it is. But a lot of things stink. The fact that Israel tried to bomb Lebanon back to the Stone Age & turned Hezbollah into heroes of the entire Arab world–that stinks too. But whadaya gonna do?

I had no problem w. the sources you provided. They were impeccable. My problem was that the articles you linked to didn’t prove yr thesis. You want to pain Hezbollah as demonic forces of evil. That’s not what the articles said. They reported that Hezbollah was arming itself to fight Israel, that Hezbollah fought Lebanese forces in internal civil strife, that Iran was supporting Hezbollah. All of these are developments generally known to the world at large. But they don’t prove Hezbollah to be the font of all evil, which is yr thesis.

Will the story of LTC. William Higgins of the UN peace keeping force in Lebanon do for starters?

This tragic incident happened 20 yrs ago. I’d be perfectly happy with the authors of this crime being charged with war crimes. I don’t approve of kidnapping or murder for any purpose. But are you claiming that other forces in didn’t engage in the same or worse acts of terror?

one will not be allowed to argue (or prove) that Hezbollah is a fundamentally evil terrorist organization,

You’re perfectly free to argue this as long as you can document it. But drug running, weapons smuggling, & a 20 yr old act of kidnapping & murder, while disgusting & reprehensible–in the context of the cesspool that has been Lebanon for the past 4 decades or so doesn’t prove a group to be evil personified unless you’re willing to say that all other forces involved in the Lebanese conflict including Israel are as well.

What you are not allowed to argue is that Hezbollah are Nazis. That is true. That is my limit. You don’t like it–too bad.

is it pointless?

Arguing with you is pointless.

you want to know if Hezbollah is into the narco-terrorism thing…but you can’t be bothered to do even the most cursory of searchs using Google

Uh no. You were the person who made this claim not I. I only want you to be intellectually honest & support claims you make w. evidence, which you didn’t. It’s not my job to provide evidence to support your claims. That’s yr job.

Cannabis Chronicles is a website focused on everything related to marijauana, especially its the medical uses. I don’t think that is one of those “highly partisan” sources

Your sources are becoming more & more bizarre. I don’t frequent drug related sites so I have no idea whether this site has any credibility or not. Once again, you’d have to ascertain on what basis the publication makes the claim. Did the reporter go to the Bekaa? Where did he uncover whatever evidence he claims (& I see very little in this passage that could be considered actual evidence or proof).

Besides, I don’t see how this activity disqualifies Hezbollah as a legitimate political representative on the Lebanese scene. Drug running may be something you & I disapprove of. But it’s been going on for centuries in the Middle East. And in fact, some of the drugs grown are consumed in Israel. So I don’t think we have much ground to be holier than thou (though that shouldn’t stop you).

Amazing! You openly confess to ignorance about Hezbollah (”I don’t know about their funding & where it comes from…It’s possible it comes entirely or almost entirely from reputable sources.”), and make it clear that you aren’t interest in becoming even minimally informed (”I’ll lv. that issue to you since it troubles you so.”).

*****
@RS: “No doubt Hezbollah is funded by Iran just as Israel receives advanced weaponry & financial assistance fr. the U.S.”

Very telling! A perfect example of “moral equivalence” to go along with the others you unselfconsciously offer up from time to time (“Comparing the relative callousness of Israel vs. Hezbollah I’d be hard-pressed to say which is better or worse.”)

Evidence that contradicts you just won’t do, will it. You accused me of lying (in keeping with your regular resort to ad hominem), saying, “That is a lie & a stupid one at that. Many Lebanese oppose Hezbollah–strongly & vociferously. Or haven’t you heard of the March 14th Coalition which is the current government?” When presented with evidence that Hezbollah is an enemy of democratic reform in Lebanon, you respond, “you come up w. a bunch of media links that prove:…2. Hezbollah fought & defeated March 14th forces in Beirut”

(BTW, by way of rebuttal you said, “No doubt everything you “know” on the subject comes from highly partisan sources. But I’m curious to know where specifically yr “information” comes from.” When I come back with links to the NYT, Washington Post, Guardian, Independent, Nation, NPR, and others, you fall silent on the subject of “highly partisan sources.” Where would you have me go to become informed as you are about Hezbollah, so important a player?)

*****
@RS: “You make Hezbollah out to be Sicilian mafiosi or Hitlerian stormtrooopers. They may not be fine upstanding citizens, but…”
@RS: “I ask you to provide evidence that Hezbollah consists of a bunch of blood-curdling killers dealing drugs in the Bekaa to finance their social service work & attaching conrete blocks to the feet of anyone who crosses them & dropping them in a river…”

No, “attaching conrete blocks to the feet of anyone who crosses them & dropping them in a river” is not the way Hezbollah goes about it. And yes, they are “blood-curdling killers,” that is unless no terrorists curdle your blood with the way they go about their cruel and evil business. (How much evidence would you like me to adduce on this? Will the story of LTC. William Higgins of the UN peace keeping force in Lebanon do for starters? You could inform yourself by reading what is online of Shaul Shay’s book Islamic Terror Abductions in the Middle East, that published by Academic Press.)

One isn’t allowed to argue that you display a strong bias against Israel, because you won’t hear of it, saying as you do that you are a “progressive Zionist,” which is supposed to dispose of the bias charge. (It doesn’t, except perhaps in your mind.) And now it seems that one will not be allowed to argue (or prove) that Hezbollah is a fundamentally evil terrorist organization, because you have pre-emptorily given yourself deniability with, “I never said that Hezbollah were altar boys…Hezbollah are bad actors & I don’t approve of what they stand for.” (You always leave the door open though, don’t you, “They may not be fine upstanding citizens, but…”)

Should we go on, or is it pointless? There is a great deal more the ought to be said about those you don’t see as “blood-curdling killers” even remotely like “Sicilian mafiosi or Hitlerian stormtrooopers,” nor as an absolute blocker of anything like democracy in Lebanon.

OK, Richard, you want to know if Hezbollah is into the narco-terrorism thing in the way that some other groups are, mostly notably the Taliban in Afghanistan and the FARC in Colombia (where I once lived, btw). But you can’t be bothered to do even the most cursory of searchs using Google and words like “hashish,” “cocaine,” “heroin.” So let me help you.

Cannabis Chronicles is a website focused on everything related to marijauana, especially its the medical uses. I don’t think that is one of those “highly partisan” sources that you so fear, unless the partisanship is advocacy of drug legalization. (High Times is another useful source for those interested in these things. It was one of the journals that the US Public Health Service library subscribed to before it closed a few years ago.) CC reprinted this detailed story about drug trafficking in the Bekaa:

“Hezbollah forces are deeply entrenched in the Bekaa, where drug cultivation and weapons smuggling provide the Shiite militant group and the Syrian regime with a prime source of funding…The Bekaa Valley is among the world’s most renowned drug trafficking hubs. This fertile area is where rows of cannabis plants produce high quality hashish and marijuana, raw coca paste imported from South America is developed into cocaine and heroin is processed from opium poppies in laboratories. The labs are concentrated in the Bekaa towns of Hermel, Baalbek and Zahle, Hellanyeh, Niha, Abbasyeh, Barqa, Iaat and Kuddam, which are — not coincidentally — Hezbollah strongholds…”
[http://the3lb.com/2008/06/08/bekaa-and-the-israeli-hezbollah-fight/]

Would you like more support for my assertion that drug trafficking is an important funding source for Hezbollah, as it is for the Taliban and the FARC?

1. Iran provides support, weapons & training to Hezbollah
2. Hezbollah fought & defeated March 14th forces in Beirut

Duh, I’m gonna raise the white flag. I give up. You’ve got me. I simply can’t prevail in the light of yr superior command of the sources. What do you take me for (don’t answer that as I don’t really care what you take me for)? And what do you think you’ve proven?

And by the way, a search for the term “drug” in every article you provided that was accessible didn’t turn up a single one that contained the word. I don’t doubt that someone in Lebanon may be dealing in drugs & using that to finance their movement’s activities, but you haven’t proven it here.

A multiplicity of sources, including the NYT, Washington Post, NPR, The Guardian, Robert Fisk in The Independent, Christopher Hedges in The Nation, and others from across the political spectrum. Richard, now pls. tell us how you manage to stay so uninformed about that which you purport to be knowledgeable, especially since none of this is a big secret or seriously disputed.

Is there any particular fact that you are in doubt about and would like me to document for you? Here’s a potpourri of source materials for starters on Iran’s sponsorship of Hezbollah; Hezbollah’s spoiler role in the Green/Cyprus democratic “revolution”; Hezbollah’s role in the Bekaa Valley drug trade; etc.:

A few links:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/05/world/middleeast/05iran.html?scp=1&sq=iran%20hezbollah&st=cse

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/16/world/middleeast/16hezbollah.html?_r=1&scp=4&sq=iran%20hezbollah&st=cse&oref=slogin

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/15/AR2006081501413.html

And a few more:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20071210/hedges

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/hizbollah-turns-to-iran-for-new-weapons-to-wage-war-on-israel-805763.html

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-05-13-lebanons-hariri-vows-no-surrender-to-hezbollah

Must not leave out The Guardian or The Independent:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/27/israelandthepalestinians.lebanon

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-hizbollah-rules-west-beirut-in-irans-proxy-war-with-us-825430.html

Nor NPR:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9371072

http://www.stratfor.com/bekaas_crucial_role_israeli_hezbollah_fight

If you question any of my factual assertions, let me know which ones, so I may come back with documentation to support them.

Fellow Lebanese oppose Hezbollah at their peril,

That is a lie & a stupid one at that. Many Lebanese oppose Hezbollah–strongly & vociferously. Or haven’t you heard of the March 14th Coalition which is the current government? There are many Lebanese blogs which denounce it–or can’t you be bothered to do any research to find them?

You make Hezbollah out to be Sicilian mafiosi or Hitlerian stormtrooopers. They may not be fine upstanding citizens, but the picture you paint is pure propaganda.

No doubt Hezbollah is funded by Iran just as Israel receives advanced weaponry & financial assistance fr. the U.S. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Or have you forgotten that old saying? I never said that Hezbollah were altar boys. I don’t know about their funding & where it comes from. It’s possible that some of it comes from less than reputable sources. It’s possible it comes entirely or almost entirely from reputable sources. I’ll lv. that issue to you since it troubles you so.

That this organization…does good things for those within its own religious/ethnic community…cannot mitigate the evil it has been perpetrating…anymore than what positive things Hitler did for a downtrodden Germany in the ’30s mitigated unparalleled evil he accomplished…

You have compared Hezbollah to Hitler. That is a violation of my comment rules. Do it or anything else in violation of these rules & you will be banned. You are warned.

the chances of anything like a democratic government for Lebanon are those of a snowball in Hell.

I love to preserve dumb comments like this in amber for the time when they are proven absolutely wrong. And this one will be in due time.

If you think I have this wrong, I expect you will tell me

Thanks for giving me a chuckle. IF I think you have this wrong???! When have you ever gotten anything right??