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	<title>Comments on: Haaretz on Finkelstein</title>
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	<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/26/haaretz-on-finkelstein/</link>
	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/26/haaretz-on-finkelstein/comment-page-1/#comment-100696</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 04:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3134#comment-100696</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@amir:&lt;/p&gt;
What&#039;s extraordinary about yr statement is that you don&#039;t seem to conceive of the possibility that a government official might actually give 2 acounts of their reason for doing something.  Hell, w. the Bush Administration they gave us 42 reasons for invading Iraq--all of them lies.  The Israeli government gave 2 reasons both of which are likely true.   But the only people who believe he was NOT deported because of his political views are right-wingers like yrself.  Let me know when Katz or the government disavows the  first rationale quoted in the Post, then we can talk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@amir:</p>
<p>What&#8217;s extraordinary about yr statement is that you don&#8217;t seem to conceive of the possibility that a government official might actually give 2 acounts of their reason for doing something.  Hell, w. the Bush Administration they gave us 42 reasons for invading Iraq&#8211;all of them lies.  The Israeli government gave 2 reasons both of which are likely true.   But the only people who believe he was NOT deported because of his political views are right-wingers like yrself.  Let me know when Katz or the government disavows the  first rationale quoted in the Post, then we can talk.</p>
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		<title>By: amir</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/26/haaretz-on-finkelstein/comment-page-1/#comment-100693</link>
		<dc:creator>amir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 03:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3134#comment-100693</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s what Yaakov Katz wrote May 25, but apparently he didn&#039;t understand them very well because on May 28 he wrote: &quot;Officials said that he was denied entry due to suspicions about his relationships with hostile elements in Lebanon. The officials noted that during his interrogation upon arrival in Israel, Finkelstein had not provided satisfactory answers to questions regarding these suspicions.&quot;
So maybe you should amend your statement, as Yaakov Katz did.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1211872839843&amp;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s what Yaakov Katz wrote May 25, but apparently he didn&#8217;t understand them very well because on May 28 he wrote: &#8220;Officials said that he was denied entry due to suspicions about his relationships with hostile elements in Lebanon. The officials noted that during his interrogation upon arrival in Israel, Finkelstein had not provided satisfactory answers to questions regarding these suspicions.&#8221;<br />
So maybe you should amend your statement, as Yaakov Katz did.<br />
<a href="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1211872839843&#038;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull" rel="nofollow">http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1211872839843&#038;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/26/haaretz-on-finkelstein/comment-page-1/#comment-100673</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 20:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3134#comment-100673</guid>
		<description>@amir: &lt;blockquote&gt;Officials said that &lt;em&gt;the decision to deport Finkelstein was connected to his anti-Zionist opinions and fierce public criticism of Israel&lt;/em&gt; around the world.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
--&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1211434094376&amp;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jerusalem Post&lt;/a&gt;

If you review my sources I&#039;ve used Jerusalem Post quite often though not nearly as often as Haaretz or Ynetnews.  I actually quite like Larry Derfner who writes for the Post.  ONce in a very blue moon they publish others who have something useful to say.  Though as you note, I am a critic in general of their journalism.

I don&#039;t need to watch the clip.  I read the verbatim transcript of the same interview.  I don&#039;t read that statement of Finkelstein&#039;s the way you do.  When he says reasonable people can disagree, he means that reasonable people may feel that Hezbollah started the current war; HOWEVER, even if they did, Israel&#039;s response has been criminal, etc.  That&#039;s how I and most &quot;reasonable&quot; people would read that passage.

Clearly, he does believe that &lt;strong&gt;in the Lebanon war&lt;/strong&gt; Israel needed to be defeated.  That war was a war of aggression in its implementation, though possibly not in its origin.  Because of this, Finkelstein believes that Israel should&#039;ve been stopped (as it was).  Clearly, too he does not believe in Israel&#039;s destruction.

Whatever you believe about why he was banned is disproven by your own government representatives quoted in a right wing Israeli newspaper.  You&#039;ll have to deal w. that.

Alan Dershowitz is a goddamn hypocrite &amp; has no right to say a word on whether or not Finkelstein should&#039;ve been banned fr. Israel since he was instrumental in getting Finkelstein banned from academia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@amir:<br />
<blockquote>Officials said that <em>the decision to deport Finkelstein was connected to his anti-Zionist opinions and fierce public criticism of Israel</em> around the world.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8211;<a href="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1211434094376&#038;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull" rel="nofollow">Jerusalem Post</a></p>
<p>If you review my sources I&#8217;ve used Jerusalem Post quite often though not nearly as often as Haaretz or Ynetnews.  I actually quite like Larry Derfner who writes for the Post.  ONce in a very blue moon they publish others who have something useful to say.  Though as you note, I am a critic in general of their journalism.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t need to watch the clip.  I read the verbatim transcript of the same interview.  I don&#8217;t read that statement of Finkelstein&#8217;s the way you do.  When he says reasonable people can disagree, he means that reasonable people may feel that Hezbollah started the current war; HOWEVER, even if they did, Israel&#8217;s response has been criminal, etc.  That&#8217;s how I and most &#8220;reasonable&#8221; people would read that passage.</p>
<p>Clearly, he does believe that <strong>in the Lebanon war</strong> Israel needed to be defeated.  That war was a war of aggression in its implementation, though possibly not in its origin.  Because of this, Finkelstein believes that Israel should&#8217;ve been stopped (as it was).  Clearly, too he does not believe in Israel&#8217;s destruction.</p>
<p>Whatever you believe about why he was banned is disproven by your own government representatives quoted in a right wing Israeli newspaper.  You&#8217;ll have to deal w. that.</p>
<p>Alan Dershowitz is a goddamn hypocrite &#038; has no right to say a word on whether or not Finkelstein should&#8217;ve been banned fr. Israel since he was instrumental in getting Finkelstein banned from academia.</p>
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		<title>By: amir</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/26/haaretz-on-finkelstein/comment-page-1/#comment-100671</link>
		<dc:creator>amir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 19:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3134#comment-100671</guid>
		<description>Congratulations. You and Alan Dershowits are on the same side of this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations. You and Alan Dershowits are on the same side of this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: amir</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/26/haaretz-on-finkelstein/comment-page-1/#comment-100669</link>
		<dc:creator>amir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 19:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3134#comment-100669</guid>
		<description>Since when do you quote the JPost? To answer your question - if this gov&#039;t official has a name and has a position which would give him inside knowledge on this point, then I&#039;ll amend my statement. How &#039;bout a link?

By reading the transcript of the interview, you don&#039;t give it justice. I suggest you go to youtube and watch it and also watch the 2006 clip &quot;Norman Finkelstein Professes His Solidarity With Hezbollah&quot;. Each one is about 9 minutes. He doesn&#039;t use the word heroes, but obviously he thinks the hizballah fighters are heroic. Notice he says, &quot;reasonable people can disagree about how the Lebanon war started.&quot; Only someone who does not think Hizballah started the war would say that, because 99% of reasonable people in Israel, US Europe and Lebanon (other than shiites (and maybe even Shiites))  think Hizballah started the war.
It is clear that NF supports Israel&#039;s enemies and believes Israel needs to be defeated. To call NF a critic of Israel is not accurate. He is a supporter of Hizzballah and for Israel&#039;s security to have allowed a foreigner who supports its enemy into the country would be a dereliction of duty. I maintain that the only reason he was banned from Israel is because of his contacts with Hizballah, but he should have banned even earlier when it was clear he was a supporter of Hizballah.
BTW, I think his support for Hizzbllah has more to do with his anti-Americanism than his anti-Israeliness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since when do you quote the JPost? To answer your question &#8211; if this gov&#8217;t official has a name and has a position which would give him inside knowledge on this point, then I&#8217;ll amend my statement. How &#8217;bout a link?</p>
<p>By reading the transcript of the interview, you don&#8217;t give it justice. I suggest you go to youtube and watch it and also watch the 2006 clip &#8220;Norman Finkelstein Professes His Solidarity With Hezbollah&#8221;. Each one is about 9 minutes. He doesn&#8217;t use the word heroes, but obviously he thinks the hizballah fighters are heroic. Notice he says, &#8220;reasonable people can disagree about how the Lebanon war started.&#8221; Only someone who does not think Hizballah started the war would say that, because 99% of reasonable people in Israel, US Europe and Lebanon (other than shiites (and maybe even Shiites))  think Hizballah started the war.<br />
It is clear that NF supports Israel&#8217;s enemies and believes Israel needs to be defeated. To call NF a critic of Israel is not accurate. He is a supporter of Hizzballah and for Israel&#8217;s security to have allowed a foreigner who supports its enemy into the country would be a dereliction of duty. I maintain that the only reason he was banned from Israel is because of his contacts with Hizballah, but he should have banned even earlier when it was clear he was a supporter of Hizballah.<br />
BTW, I think his support for Hizzbllah has more to do with his anti-Americanism than his anti-Israeliness.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/26/haaretz-on-finkelstein/comment-page-1/#comment-100650</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 07:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3134#comment-100650</guid>
		<description>@amir: I&#039;ve just read the transcript of that interview &amp; it doesn&#039;t say what you say it does; and it doesn&#039;t support my own claim either.  He says that the Hezbollah kidnapping was a &quot;pretext&quot; that Israel used to start the war.  He prob. believes that the Hezbollah attack was immaterial.  If so, I don&#039;t agree w. him.  I don&#039;t know whether Israel planned all along to go to war against Hezbollah or whether the war was solely due to the Hezbollah assault.  But personally I criticize both the original attack &amp; Israel&#039;s grossly disproportionate response.

Regarding smearning, you seem to believe that for someone to be smeared the smearing has to happen in a public setting, which is a ludicrous view on its face.  The Al Qaeda question was nonsensical, insulting, demeaning &amp; downright stupid.  In short, a smear.
&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s obvious he was nor denied entry because of his political opinion&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Obvious to you perhaps, but a JPost report refers to a government representative who specifically acknowledges that Finkelstein was excluded because of his political views.  Care to amend yr statement?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@amir: I&#8217;ve just read the transcript of that interview &#038; it doesn&#8217;t say what you say it does; and it doesn&#8217;t support my own claim either.  He says that the Hezbollah kidnapping was a &#8220;pretext&#8221; that Israel used to start the war.  He prob. believes that the Hezbollah attack was immaterial.  If so, I don&#8217;t agree w. him.  I don&#8217;t know whether Israel planned all along to go to war against Hezbollah or whether the war was solely due to the Hezbollah assault.  But personally I criticize both the original attack &#038; Israel&#8217;s grossly disproportionate response.</p>
<p>Regarding smearning, you seem to believe that for someone to be smeared the smearing has to happen in a public setting, which is a ludicrous view on its face.  The Al Qaeda question was nonsensical, insulting, demeaning &#038; downright stupid.  In short, a smear.</p>
<blockquote><p>It’s obvious he was nor denied entry because of his political opinion</p></blockquote>
<p>Obvious to you perhaps, but a JPost report refers to a government representative who specifically acknowledges that Finkelstein was excluded because of his political views.  Care to amend yr statement?</p>
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		<title>By: amir</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/26/haaretz-on-finkelstein/comment-page-1/#comment-100642</link>
		<dc:creator>amir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 19:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3134#comment-100642</guid>
		<description>I understand his answer to the interviewer in the Lebanese tv which he features prominently on his web page under the title &quot;In defence of Hezbollah&quot; to her question regarding the situation after Israel&#039;s withdrawal in the year 2000 to be a defence of Hizballahs agressivness and attacks against Israel from the year 2000 until the war in 2006 including the attack that started the war. I think that is a reasonable conclusion from what he says. Not everything can be proven with a one sentence quotation.

I have taken advantage of this debate to watch some youtube clips of NF, and have come to the conclusion that the shin bet was mistaken about Norman. I can&#039;t understand how they let this guy in the country 15 times before denying him entry. Someone at the shin bet was not doing his job. 

It&#039;s obvious he was nor denied entry because of his political opinion, but rather because of his contacts with Hizbollah. I don&#039;t want the guy in my country either.

Your argument about him being a Jew, so Israel should let him in, as though he&#039;s on some sort of birthright trip would be less silly if NF were making it as well. But he&#039;s not. He&#039;s saying that he doesn&#039;t even want to visit Israel, that he wants to visit Palestine, but to get to Palestine he has to go through Israel.

The claim that Israel asked him about al qaeda as a way of smearing him is also silly. Nobody would know about the question if NF wasn&#039;t telling everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand his answer to the interviewer in the Lebanese tv which he features prominently on his web page under the title &#8220;In defence of Hezbollah&#8221; to her question regarding the situation after Israel&#8217;s withdrawal in the year 2000 to be a defence of Hizballahs agressivness and attacks against Israel from the year 2000 until the war in 2006 including the attack that started the war. I think that is a reasonable conclusion from what he says. Not everything can be proven with a one sentence quotation.</p>
<p>I have taken advantage of this debate to watch some youtube clips of NF, and have come to the conclusion that the shin bet was mistaken about Norman. I can&#8217;t understand how they let this guy in the country 15 times before denying him entry. Someone at the shin bet was not doing his job. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s obvious he was nor denied entry because of his political opinion, but rather because of his contacts with Hizbollah. I don&#8217;t want the guy in my country either.</p>
<p>Your argument about him being a Jew, so Israel should let him in, as though he&#8217;s on some sort of birthright trip would be less silly if NF were making it as well. But he&#8217;s not. He&#8217;s saying that he doesn&#8217;t even want to visit Israel, that he wants to visit Palestine, but to get to Palestine he has to go through Israel.</p>
<p>The claim that Israel asked him about al qaeda as a way of smearing him is also silly. Nobody would know about the question if NF wasn&#8217;t telling everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/26/haaretz-on-finkelstein/comment-page-1/#comment-100637</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 15:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3134#comment-100637</guid>
		<description>I have a response for Mark as well.  If we were to make a list of David Duke&#039;s positions on every matter under the Sun, what are the odds that you (or I or anyone else) would find one or more points of agreement with Duke somewhere on that list?  Needless to say, those odds are quite high. (No one is wrong 100% of the time - not even David Duke.)

Your attempt to smear Finkelstein via &#039;guilt by association&#039; indicts you, not Finkelstein.  You&#039;re going to have to do better than that if you want to be taken seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a response for Mark as well.  If we were to make a list of David Duke&#8217;s positions on every matter under the Sun, what are the odds that you (or I or anyone else) would find one or more points of agreement with Duke somewhere on that list?  Needless to say, those odds are quite high. (No one is wrong 100% of the time &#8211; not even David Duke.)</p>
<p>Your attempt to smear Finkelstein via &#8216;guilt by association&#8217; indicts you, not Finkelstein.  You&#8217;re going to have to do better than that if you want to be taken seriously.</p>
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